Which: Stihl MS250, MS260, Husky 346XP

[logbutcher]

OK, OK-- more saw advice needed.

What more do you get buying the "pro" model (not the MS260 Pro)Stihl MS260 than the so-called "homeowners" 250 for the $150. US extra ?  Specific: durability ? Reliability ? Torque/hi end RPMs ? Life?
And how about the well-reviewed 346XP ?

Use: 12" to 26" mixed hard/softwoods cut.
        Ave. 1+ full day/week year-round.
        6-8 cords hardwood for heating/year.
        Woodlot mangement: selective cuts, blowdowns.
        16" bar (now from 20").
Use now Stihl 028 for most work. Husky 136 for light limbing and high stuff. But I'm using the tiny 136 more and more because of the weight. The 028 is going to hell too slowly along with a lower back, so weight is a major consideration. (Yes I know--"no whining").
Go GOL . :-/

Thanx.

[slowzuki]

Well, I choose the MS260.  I would have been happy with the 346 too I think.  If you have a bunch of Stihl's now, why not more for bar interchange?
Ken

[slowzuki]

Re the 250 vs the 260, I believe the 260 has much higher torque in the lower rpms due to the different porting and 1/2 more hp at peak.

It would have been fine for me, the dealer said the 260 would last me about 3x what the 250 would if both were well taken care of.  He mentioned in pro use the difference would be larger.

The 10 lb saws are very nice after hauling an 18 lb saw around awhile, although the little 8 lb pruning saw is nice too!

[jokers]

Hi Logbutcher,

Just having a little fun with numbers, if you cut one day/week, year `round (52days) x let`s say an average of 6hrs/day, since you said full days, it`s taking you 312hrs to produce 8 full cord(I assume "full") which equates to 13hrs/16" face cord. Even felling, limbing, skidding, and bucking, that`s alot more time than it should be taking you. I realize that you must also be doing some cleanup in that time, but in purely firewood terms, I think that 1 1/2 - 2 hrs/face cord from stump to stacked is alot more realistic. Please be patient because this is leading somewhere.

If my initial calcs were anywhere close to reality for you, it tells me something about your saw technique, and the first thing suggested is that you run dull chain. I don`t mean to offend you, but many people, including "pros" are guilty of this. If this is true, learn all that you can about sharpening and then put it to practice, you will see your production increase about 700 - 800%. There are other things to practice as well, such as guide bar maintenance and letting the saw rev and do the work, don`t force it. Bear with me, I`m still leading somewhere.

My point is, that if you run dull chain, wrong depth gauge height, force the saw, run a bar that is too big, and generally don`t give it optimum maintenance or operate like a craftsman, none of the saws you are looking at is going to please you. They are all small cube saws that are generally unforgiving of any operator error.

The 250 is a pretty good saw that will serve many people perfectly, as long as they don`t expect blazing performance. It will last quite awhile, longer than most people will care about.

The ms260 will last 2-4 times as long as the 250, and then is still a viable candidate for a ring job, which is alot easier on the 260 due to construction differences. It will cost you less to rebuild the 260 than the 250 if you take it to a shop. The 260 also turns about 1500rpm higher equating to significantly faster cutting of all material except the largest that you might tackle with a small saw, and the extra horsepower is evident at every point in the powerband.Your questions will be answered if you get the chance to run these models side by side.

The 346xp is a great saw that will routinely outcut the 260 by a small margin in the hands of an expereinced operator. In the hands of someone less savvy, it will fall on it`s face. The 260 has a more forgiving range of peak power and that`s important to many people. It also allows many people to tackle bigger wood with the 260 without realizing that they aren`t operating anywhere near peak efficiency. As far as durability, the 346 seems to be as good a saw as the 260. It`s very well constructed and it`s holding up well in the hands of the hack and slash ROW clearance crowd.

Sorry for the length of my reply but I wanted to explain my opinions and give some comparative information at the same time. Maybe this will be of some help to you as you read it and decide for yourself what type of operator you are or aspire to be.

Russ

[ricksvar]

I"ve got the 026(non pro model) and it's a fine saw.Run a 16" bar with semi chisel chain.Cuts above around 12" I'll reach for a different saw just to finish a little faster if I have several cuts to make.Saw oils very well and handles dry/dead wood with no problem.

If I were to buy a 346 I would put a 14" bar on it.I've never used one but doubt it's oiler could be adjusted to put out as much oil on the bar as a 026 non pro saw.Not a critical factor in green wood but in dry wood full load cuts I think a difference would be noticeable.That's why I would use a 14" bar combo on the 346.IMO the 346 is also a fine saw and I doubt I would have any regrets owning one,in fact I would like to own this saw,,just don't need it.

Rick

[jokers]

Hi Rick,

Husky does not seem to be afflicted with anemic adjustable oilers the way that Stihl is. I do prefer the non adjustable oiler on the 026/260 vs the adjustable oiler of the Pro version, but the 346`s oiler works equally as well. I normally run a 20" bar on the 346 and it cuts whatever gets in the way. I only go for a larger saw if the job warrants it right from the start and then it`s the primary saw to be used.

Russ

[ricksvar]

Hi Jokers,

I agree 100% concerning the Stihl adjustable oilers.Just my taste I would run a shorter bar on a 346.I'am not saying anyone should not run a 20" bar on a 026 or 346.Everyone should set up or buy a saw to suit their needs which can vary depending on individual use.

Rick

[logbutcher]

Well OK Jokers, you win this one. "To make things perfectly clear" (remember Tricky Dick ?) : for every firewood tree felled, I do 10-20 trees managing our 60 acre woodlot. Blowdowns, opening areas for growth, clearing for value trees, dropping deseased or damaged timber, felling money trees like cedar or pulp. The "1 day/week" is a low estimate for the work we do on the woodlot.
I'm just getting tired with the 028 repairs, hard-starts, and more important, weight.
I could have been clearer.
Back to a saw choice : it sounds like most of you feel that the quality, engineering , and manufacturing make to higher end "pro" saws like the MS260 and Husky 346XP  worth the extra cost. The potential few years more of useful life is the key for me. Since I have had good luck w Stihl -- 2 028's and a F81 brush and sapling cutter ---over the past 20 years, perhaps it is worthwhile to stick w the familiar.
Are you some kind of auditor or CPA ? Fun to get hammered like that. Always learn something. Keep it coming.\
Much thanx.

[Stan]

I guess Jokers wouldn't understand my problem. It's me that's worn out, not the chain.  :-/

[Oregon_Rob]

For the amount of sawing you do, why not buy a nice light 346 and have one of the saw builders upgrade it for you?
That way you get a lighter saw to carry around and if it cuts faster, you get the days work done earlier and get back to the barn that much quicker? I am an out of shape high tech worker and i don't hold up for a full days work in the woods.
At the very least, modify the muffler and get the low cost improvements, it was really noticeable on my 372xp


Rob

[logbutcher]

Here are the stats on the 346 and 260:
Stihl MS260= 2.97 cu in, .54 pwr/wgt ratio, 10.6 lbs, $400+.
Husky 346XP= 2.7 cu in , .52 ratio, 10.6 lbs, $350+.
Pretty close, including color! Stihl gives a two-tone however.
Husky "feels better" in balance. Stihl has higher torque at WOT and I can say the name easier when the lips are cold.(Important now since we have -13 F w. a gale blowing off the ocean.) :'(
I would not modify the saw until using it stock for awhile.
Got a Husky 136 that does what it should....nice tool. And the Huskys (346XP, 353, 372XP) were used by us in the Game of Logging/CPL training.
Chains/sharpening: always touch up the chain at least after every 2nd tank, often more if cutting blowdowns or dirty wood like a standing dead oak. Got a portable filing vise that digs into a stump. Greatest tool yet: a Pferd or Husky Sharpforce File Guide that does both cutter and depth gauge (raker) at the same time. Best sharpening ever !

[slowzuki]

Just a note on the MS260 oiler, it is adjustable,  I haven't tried the extreme settings but I use a tank of oil for a tank of fuel now.  The chain looks dry but if you lift it out of the groove everything is well lubed.

[Minnesota_boy]

I have a Husqvarna 136 and a Stihl MS-180, pretty comparable saw in terms of weight, power, etc.  The Husqvarna uses a tank of oil to a tank of fuel, the Stihl uses a tank of oil to 3-4 tanks of fuel, but the chain is lubed properly.  The difference for me is the way the oiler is run.  Husqvarna oiler is crankshaft driven.  When the saw runs, the oiler pumps, whether you are sawing or just idling.  Stihl oil pumps are clutch driven.  They only pump when the chain is turning.  Since I end up with the saw idling quite a bit, I don't need a puddle of oil where the saw sits so I prefer the Stihl.

[Bobcat_pa]

I have both the 260pro & 346xpg .  Jokers made a very important comment regarding the power, and use of these two saws.  The 260pro has a lot more cutting power when running less that max rpm's.  I know that a chain saw was made to run a max, but I find myself not always doing this.   Although I do not have much time on the 346 yet, it was immediately clear to me that this saw needs to run a full throttle.  If I baby the 346, it just bogs down and forces me to get the rpm's up.   As Jokers said, the pro user will make this saw run fast, and take advantage of that  extra chain speed on the 346.       Bob  

[logbutcher]

Super advice on choice.
Jokers: not clear on the RPM range of the 346 and 260. We always cut WOT, so why wouldn't they be the same in operation ? I did like the balance and feel of the 346 for a short run felling.  The 260 did "feel" a little less anti-vibe, and slightly less "balanced". What experience do you mean  to use  each ?
I am leaning toward the Stihl 260 because of higher power w same wgt, good experience w Stihl, rep for durability. Am I missing something ? (No wise cracks here, please.)
All opinions will be weighed in the opinions of the judges.
Thanx.

[Minnesota_boy]

I do most of my cutting at WOT too, but sometimes I'm willing to let the saw do its cutting and sometimes I want to push it a bit.  When I push it, the RPM drops.  Is it still in its powerband?  Must be, because it cuts a little faster, but the engine is working harder to do it.    If the powerband was narrower, the saw would bog down and cut slower if I tried to push it.

[Fish]

So you all actually listen to Russ or Rick?
   Fish

[CWS]

Who else are we going to listen to? I hate Champion spark plugs by the way, don't know why, just do.

[jrb34]

So where does the MS270 fit into this? I went saw shopping yesterday, and my neighborhood Stihl dealer seemed very keen on it, after selling them for a year. Better anti-vibe and cutting efficiency, he mentioned. A pound and a half heavier than the 260, I mentioned. $75 cheaper, he mentioned. Long track record, I replied.

As anyone here used one of these?

[logbutcher]

Also gently 'pushed' the MS270 for me. You must have gone to see Viking ? Mike is "all Stihl all the time." Most other dealers here have Husky and other tools and motors.
Called Stihl tech line for their technical take on the lineup of saws. Just obsessed with info, huh ?   The 250 is "homeowners", 270 "intermediate", 260 "professional" in construction and materials. Not much comment on the comparison w the Husky line and particularly 346XP.
The 270 did have a fuel tank recall and is newer . The 260 is the basic 026 from 1988 used by ROW and line companies as a primary tool.
Going w the 260 when the 028 gets fussy again....clean air filters, new gas filter, new plug, new starter spring and rope. Still 8-10 pulls at all temps.

[jrb34]

Viking and Mike indeed. But I've been doing business there for 30 years, and they've always used me right.

He did allow as how the MS260 would see me out, and if I bought the 250 I could expect to buy another in 10 years. Either would certainly be saw enough for my 3 to 4 cords of firewood/year and weekly TSI work in the dog-hair spruce patch. The 270 seemed to have as its advantage modernity, at the cost of weight.

The closest Husky dealer I know anything about is Agway; judging from their work on my lawnmower in the past, they're not an option. Basically, I shop for a dealer with reliable service and buy what he sells. I looked at a 346xp and liked the way it felt in the hand, but I get the impression from reading these posts that it's a little too temperamental for a weekend dub like me.

[jokers]

Hi jrb34,

I just want to point out that there is nothing tempermental about the 346, just that it takes a skilled or fully devoted operator to use it to it`s full potential. Don`t we all strive to be that skilled. With that being said, and an apparent plug for the 346, you are probably better off buying what you can get the best local service for with price being a secondary consideration.

I think that the 270 is a bloated goat compared to the 260. I apologize if I am criticizing anyones recent purchase, but the 270 is a pricepoint saw for Stihl. It and it`s sister, the 280, aren`t "best in class" in any category and are built on a similar platform to the consumer saws such as the 250/290/310/390. Buy a 260 today and see what it`s resale is in 5 years. Try the same thing with any of those other models and see what you get. If I had to buy one of the other models it would be the 250 and I would open the muffler for a little more jam. The 250 is the best consumer model that Stihl makes in my opinion and has a track record that shows that it can take a licking.

Russ

[jrb34]

Perhaps "tempermental" was the wrong choice of word. Demanding, might have been more accurate. I once owned an Alfa-Romeo that was both tempermental and demanding--tempermental because it only ran if you talked to it correctly; demanding because it would go like the wind and corner on rails, but only if you kept the engine wound up to the redline and you didn't blink or shift your chewing gum in the corners.

Now I drive a Toyota, which is neither tempermental nor demanding. It basically runs if it has gas and clean oil, and it goes pretty much where you point it with a minimum of excitement.

I'm feeling inclined, in my declining years, toward a Toyota of a chainsaw, I guess. The 260 is currently the number-one choice, with the 250 a fairly close second. Fortunately I don't have to decide until mud season.

How is the anti-vibe on the 260 and 250? I still have a bit of white-fingers from the Mac SuperPro-80 I used to use back in the 1970s. My current saw, an aging-and-about-to-be-retired Stihl 011, is too small to vibrate.

[logbutcher]

Nice to find a competent dealer. Yes, I found Mike to be straight, no push, solid advice.
Maybe we could double team him on a 260 ?
My 028 works but may be an air leak somewhere since it races after a cut. Some problem. I tried spraying carb cleaner around the carb to find a supposed leak. No luck. Just being careful.
Agreed that we don't need a tool that needs "expertise" or babying to do its job. Enough troubles w some of the early M-16 s....the staff/brass said the same thing : "your men aren't using it correctly". Jams, over heating, misfires. Give me a Toyata, a Honda, a Subaru --maybe a Glock --that runs, does its job without excitement of "competency." Give me a break.
I need a tool that works under all conditions, including the user. (Opening for the joker to put in.)
Seriously, what is the "competency" or expertise that a user needs for the 346XP ? Be specific. Curious minds............
 ;D

[jokers]

logbutcher,

I can be as specific as is needed to help you understand, although you sound like you`re displaying a bit of attitude which might make you unable to understand. If I`ve misread your last post, I`m sorry.

The skill or expertise, or whatever you would choose to call it for getting the most from a 346xp is that you must run sharp chain, keep the throttle pegged, and don`t lean too heavily on the saw. Let the sharp chain do the cutting. If you don`t do these things as a matter of routine while running a saw, don`t waste your money on the 346 or the ms260 since they are very similar in operation. As I have stated and tried to be clearer on, these saws are nearly identical in operation with only very small performance differences. 6 to one, a half dozen to the other based on user technique. FWIW, I currently have 2 026s, 2 ms260 Pros, and 1 346xp, although I`m planning on picking up another 346 from Dan Henry and possibly one from Ed Heard although Ed is talking up the 357 right now. I`ve got alot of hours on these saws and know how they run. Feel free to ask more questions if you`d like.

Russ

[jrb34]

Well, I learned to keep a chain sharp back in my SP80 days, and I'm way too lazy to do anything other than let the saw do all the work. And it of course makes sense that the faster the chain travels through the wood, the faster it cuts. These I consider everyday good operating practice, the same as avoiding pinching the bar or slicing off your leg.

So given everyday good operating practice--sharp chain, depth guages right, revs pegged, let the saw do the work and don't force it to hurry things up and thus slow things down--does the choice between a 346xp and an MS260 come down to a Ford/Chevy thing? Or to find a more accurate analogy, perhaps an Audi and a hot Saab? i.e., similar performance, similar longevity, one requiring slighly more attention to keeping the revs up or it quickly loses power? (another analogy: a 318 Detroit versus a 300 Cummins.)

[jokers]

jrb34,

You`ve got the idea that I`m trying to convey. The difference between the 260 and the 346 is slight and can go either way in the real world.

If you ever want to modify the saw the game changes a little. The 346 seems to have substantially more potential for mods and increased power.

Russ

[jrb34]

Jokers--

As you own both 026/260s and a 346xp, how would you compare the anti-vibe and overall comfort level? With my leftover white-finger combined with brand-new arthritis, I want to do everything I can to ensure my hands last as long as the saw.

What about heated handles? I haven't found either saw listed for sale with heated handles in the U.S., though they're both available that way in Europe, apparently.

Thanks

[jokers]

Hi jrb,

The 346 feels slightly smoother in the cut than an 026/260, but it`s not huge. Keep the rakers filed to a reasonable height, ie; not too low, and it shouldn`t be a problem.

The Artic and xpG models are available in Canada if you can`t find one hanging around here in the US. I know people that could probably hook you up if needed. I personally don`t need the heat yet but maybe I would be wise to use it just the same.

Russ

[Bobcat_pa]

I have both the 260pro & 346xpg saws.   The 260pro is smooth and does has low vibs, but my 346xpg has even less felt vibs.   I also have a Husky 353 (similar to the 346) and it also has less vibs.  I think Husky just has a little better anti-vib system than Stihl.  I bought my 346xpg (heated handles) from Commerical Cutters Direct  ( http://www.commercialcutters.com/ ) . The local Husky dealers are what I call "off the self" and not interested in taking time to special order something for the customer.   CCD was very good to work with, and had a "what can I do for you'" attitude.    Another little point is that the local Husky dealers either did not have any Husky tools, or they are priced 2 & 3 times the price.  CCD has them & priced reasonable.                 Bob

[Oregon_Rob]

I need a tool that works under all conditions, including the user. (Opening for the joker to put in.)
Seriously, what is the "competency" or expertise that a user needs for the 346XP ? Be specific. Curious minds............
 ;D

My Husky 372 seems to fit the bill you described. Always starts and runs strong, don't see the 346 being any different.
I think you are thinking too hard. Just buy which ever you feel best about and then don't look back, just enjoy the tool and learn how to get the most out of it. Sometimes we think ourselves to death. I know this won't go over well with everyone, but I think some make too much out of dealer support. You buy a pro saw and learn to do the basics and you shouldn't be at the dealer very often. I'm no mechanic, but i have learned to do the basics like:
bar and chain care
replacing recoil rope
removal and clean up of the recoil spring
modifing a muffler and tweaking the carb

Where I draw the line at the moment is carb rebuilds, but that is my next thing to learn.

So hear I am, 2 years or so, with a used 372 and I have never taken it in, didn't need to. I do use the saw every chance i get, which is maybe 5-10 hours a month, including some milling.

Sorry, didn't mean to be this long winded.

[redpowerd]

russ,
what does the pro have that the standard 026 does not? is it just the decomp?
thanks

[CWS]

rp,

The pro also has an adujstable oiler, and elastostart. I probably misssed something that Russ will add. ;D

[jokers]

Hi redpowerd,

The Pro also has the Intellicarb to compensate for a dirty air filter. The premise is understandable but I think it possibly allows a person to use the saw at a diminished capacity without realizing how bad it`s gotten, if that makes any sense? The effect of a dirty filter is less pronounced as the Intellicarb leans out the fuel as the incoming air is lessened, so the decrease in performance would be less than a saw with an overly rich fuel/air ratio, but ultimately, less fuel in means less power out. The Intellicarbs on the 026/260 of the past few years also had a non-adjustable hi speed jet which is a big minus if you live in an area of extreme seasonal temperature changes. I`ve never seemed to have the right orifice installed for the conditions although a few people claim no problems. I`ve swapped all my fixed jets to 3 screw carbs. The newest 260 Pros are supposed to have 3 screw carbs from the factory.

[logbutcher]

So let's sum up for the MS260 and 346XP choice. For the money, for a stock tool. For a user that cuts an average of a full day a week all year including TSI and firewood. For a user who knows how to keep a chain sharp, uses correct PPE, and can do the basic maintenance. Wanting a tool that gos without fuss.
Which one ? Thx...

[jokers]

346xp. I just ordered another from DozerDan Henry.  ;D They are a sweet saw.

Russ

[SasquatchMan]

Ya know, I hear those Makitas are pretty good. :D :D :D

[logbutcher]

How about stock ? Need to get from A to B for a long, long time. Read : "durability".
After learning about all the mods to saws (used to race trailbikes- mod engines do wear faster and get pushed beyond their mfr specs), some of us just want a tool to do a job day after day in all conditions, w all kinds of 'skill' levels.
And the added cost ? Some don't want to race saws.
Yes, "run cooler", run "more efficiently," higher HP @ lower RPM's.  But there are no stats on durability on modded chainsaws...yet.
So let's talk stock. Out of the box. That's what some want and need.
Looks like a tie between the 260 and 346Xp. 260 w more 'power', more user "flexibility". Does the 346XP have 10+ year consumer experience like the 026/260 ?
How long have 346XP users used the un-modified tool ?  
Hey, I'm not sleeping w my saw......yet.  8)

[Oregon_Rob]

You are going to think yourself into a coma. Pick one and go with it, learn to use it. Don't worry, be happy! Oh yeah when you pick one, don't look back, just meld with it and make it an extension of yourself! Become one with the saw and you will find true and everlasting saw happiness. 8)

[logbutcher]

 8)
OMMMMMMMMM.............................

[slowzuki]

Logbutcher, find dealers that will let you try the saw out back then, "Do what your heart says" :D  One of the two saws will talk to you a little nicer when you're using it!  The 260 seemed to like me best, I haven't been dissapointed!

You won't be dissapointed either way me thinks.
Ken

[logbutcher]

Thanks to you all for advice on choice.  
Even thanks for the analysis of the analysis on choice.  
We who are not pros, use a chainsaw as part of our kit of woodlot and home tools are isolated. So, speaking w those who use a tool full-time, basing their tool choice on hard experience is invaluable. Both in the real world, and here online.Some of us have even gone thru pro training to gain some pro abilities and PPE techniques. When you think you know it all, stop, learn, listen. It works in the military, in business, in sports.
Update:
The "out-of-control 028" is now tamed and will stay w the stable for now. Negative pressure to buy new even tho I asked .A super local dealer here in Maine, a kind of local "stihltech" , fixed the beast and calmed the logbutcher from buying new. For the techs among you, here's the bill of materials for the repair:
1. new plug
2.flexible fuel line
3.manifold (used)
4.handle (used)
5."buffer" (used)
The air leaks were in the fuel hose and AV buffers in the handle. The user  :-[ had dropped a tree on the 028 a few months ago (full disclosure). The charge included an hour of labor and cannibalizing an old 028. 8)  Should serve this old broken body for awhile.....THEN the MS260!!!!
This dealer @ Viking, in Belfast, Maine is Mike Murphy. Beyond the call.......HOO RAH Mike .

[jokers]

That sounds good logbutcher, spend some quality time appreciating that 028. I was going to suggest that you find your best local dealer and see what feels best in your hands, but it sounds like you`ve already got the dealer and you can`t go wrong with the ms260.

Russ