Any more off-gridders here?

[Tim L]

Glad to see you moved to a better area. I admire you for living off the grid .Did the Simca ever make it to the China Dragon ?

[fuzzybear]

   I've been off the grid for over 17yrs. I run 12 150w pannels, 2 600w wind generators, 1 paddle wheel generator, and 1 diesel generator.
   My total cost to run the house shop and green houses in the summer is $0.00.  In the winter it goes up to around $5.00 a week.
   Just for kicks I inquired how much it would cost to have a line run the 5 miles up to our island. There would be no poles it would run down the center of the river, price tag of $85,000.  NOOOOO :D
   We finaly have cell service up here and I can get a signal here on the island so I may look into that. We still use the radio phone if we have to. But a cell might be nice, especialy with the twins comming.
   We feel the same way as most people who live off grid, we would never go back even if it was free.

[LT40HDD51]

We recently bought about 40 acres and are planning on building a house this summer or fall. It's about 600-700' from a power line to where I want to build, through the woods, so either poles or buried cable aint gonna be cheap .

I've been looking into battery/inverter/solar/generator systems on the internet pretty heavy the last while and have figgered a couple things out:

1. Outback inverters make a really nice looking inverter, up to 3500 watts. Sez the military uses em on the hummers in Iraq. Seems to me to be top of the line. You can stack 2 of them and get 7000 watts of 220v  .

2. You can get a 6500 watt generator, with a 13 hp diesel, elec start, enclosed cabinet... landed here for about $2500 Can. Do an eBay search for "diesel generator" and find "EmergencyPower 6500 Watt Silent Diesel Generator". I looked into the company a bit and they seem to be very legit, much better than a lot of the generator salesmen on eBay  . And they have a warehouse in Toronto (good for us canucks, no duty and stuff  ;D).

What I'd like to know is, what about batteries? I know I need either a 24v or 48v bank, depending on the inverter. I have done a bit of research, and think I want a good lead-acid battery bank. Good longevity from what I've read (I don't mind doing maintenance). Do any of you know much in this area? Ideas on manufacturers?

Please note I have no ties with any of those companies. This is all for my own personal use  ;)

...1 paddle wheel generator...

Thats really interesting  . I was scheming about building a small paddlewheel mounted between two small pontoons, to tie in a stream and power a hunting camp. Is yours something like that? I would love to see some pics... 

[Fla._Deadheader]

Hey Jeff. What's the cost to advertize here as an Alt. Energy Consultant ???

  " 51", Right now, I'm up to my ears in jobs.
 
  I will try to look at the Genset tonight, IF I'm not whacked out from handling 20' 2 X 8's all day ???  BY HAND.  : :

  Not familiar at all with that Inverter. We sold Heart brand. This was in the late 70's-early 80's. They were the best back then, and are used in Marine Applications today.

  Look aroung for Forklift Batteries. They are individual 2V cells, wired together. They are "Milk Jug" material construction, and you will probably need to construct boxes to hold the cells. They are high amperage, butm I can not remember how high. They ARE a true deep cycle battery. Only thing I would consider. See if you can find the source and probably buy them used.

  Might be a couple days before I get back to you. I'm trying to help another member, also.

[Minnesota_boy]

If you plan on going with the off grid for personal reasons, good on you.  If you're planning on it for economic reasons, check into it real close, especially the ongoing costs associated.

My father spent much of his life off grid, because there was no grid to be on, but when it became available, he hooked up and never looked back.  It's nice to have the welder available at a flip of a switch for as long as you need to weld.  It's nice to have plenty of light power when friends drop by and you stay up late into the night talking.  The Mrs. might like a hair dryer at the same time the clothes dryer is shaking the wrinkles out of her good clothes.  Taking a long shower puts quite a strain on the water pump as does washing clothes and dishes.  Think long and hard before you put your money down.

[LT40HDD51]

Another thing is that I know a guy who lives off-grid but uses almost all generator power. He designed and built the controls himself necessary to fire up the gen. when something calls for power and shut down afterwards. In other words, the gen is on standby all the time, waiting for a demand. When you turn on the oven, the gen. comes on. I'm thinking about doing the same thing, but with a battery bank and inverter setup to handle the smaller, everyday loads like a toaster, hairdryer, lights, etc. Also wood heat, and prob propane for the kitchen and dryer. I've seen some nice 24v submersible pumps on the net...

If you plan on going with the off grid for personal reasons, good on you. If you're planning on it for economic reasons, check into it real close...

It's a bit of both  . I'm thinking that the initial cost of putting a cable back there to tie into the grid might be better invested in my own system. I can build everything myself, or with the help of people I know (my buddy just happens to be an industrial electrician)  ;D. Not to mention the ongoing power bills after hooking to the grid. I'm also looking into gov't tax incentives, etc. for wind and solar supplements...

Hey Swampdonkey, hows the power flowin in NB? Heard it was goin up... way up... Thats another concern of mine...

[beav]

  LT-40,700 feet from power is where I'm at.The cost of being hooked up to grid power was  a significant chunk,not the entire cost of my power system.The independence is priceless.
  FLA is right on about the batteries. Commercial forklift batteries are the holy grail of storage. But pricey :-\. My batts have about had the meat after 10 years. I admit to murdering them through chronic undercharging during the winter months. I used Trojan T-105's. They are a golf cart battery. About the minimum quality to consider. It is a 6v deep cycle batt. My sys is 12v, I have 12 of them in series strings wired in parallel. Get better ones if you can. Surrett(Rolls), Trojan are a couple of brands that come to mind.
  The Outback components are well-rated. The only problem I have heard is that they have a problem synchronizing with some generators on the charger side.Be sure to try it before you buy it.
I have two Prosine inverters,not for 220v(most inverters have the stacking feature),but for the redundancy.One inv. runs the water pump,toaster,microwave,coffee maker,etc. The other runs everything else. If one fails the other can be patched in easily. No downtime.I hate downtime.
  The Outback charge controller is a MPPT type charge controller, and will allow you to wire  a 48 v array and charge a 24v bank. I'm not sure about the outback,but I know that other brands of mppt(maximum power point tracking) controllers will put the above voltages into a 12v bank.
  Minnesota Boy- My welder is available at the flip of my generator switch.My kids stay up all night talking, the females all know hair dryers are bad for their hair, and the dryer is bad for their good clothes.They wont get up early enough to take long showers during school. During the summer we feel we all have to take long showers cuz otherwise the solar heated water goes to waste. My system is sized to run the water pump. Furthermore,my system has paid for itself in the last 9 or 10 yrs. You might have a case if you believe the price of electricity will not go up in the future.Furthermore,our coal-burning powerplant has made the local fish inedible,etc,etc.
  TimL, yes, I went by the China Dragon a thousand times.Never in it, though. We called it the Eurassis Dragon.That place burned down years ago.
  I apologize for not having posted pix yet.Here anyway. Quite a process. :-[

[beav]

  LT-40,When I built this house I used a batt-inv-gen sys to cut down on run-time during construction.Later I just added pv panels.

[Greg Cook]

LT40, I've had good luck with Trojan batteries. They've been in business forever, and have a wide range of lead cells, a few of which are pretty much standard fare for most PV or wind set-ups. The forklift batteries that Harold mentioned are great, just hard to maneuver around when installing and replacing.
Best magazine on the subject is "homepower", and check out the website for "backwoods solar". Pretty informative, and the people are easy to work with as you're learning about your renewable energy system.

[LT40HDD51]

Thanks guys  ;D. I've got a while yet before I'll build the system so I should have it well figgered by then  . That backwoods solar site is great, lots of good examples and information on all the gear you could need. Its nice to have prices on everything, too. Seems like most sites either just sell stuff or just have information :P.

I've already designed one (really) small solar system for the electric fencer for my girlfriend's horse. Just an old car battery connected to the fencer and a cheap canadian tire solar panel alligator-clipped to the works. Holds a steady 12.5 volts, works for me and cost about $40 for the panel (a buddy scored me a sweet 12v fencer from work fer free ). I've been thinking about getting one of those 12v led bulbs from eBay and wire it up in the barn, too. They draw practically nothing and would be nice if you wanted to check on the critters at night.

[dail_h]

   I'm headed off. Just got started,plan is.....................apply for and recieve ATF fuel distillers permit,begin producing alcohol for blending in my spark engines. Use the ethel to convert used fryer oil into biodiesel(wife is food service director for the local school system).Find and buy a slow speed diesel ,Lister type to run the house.

[Fla._Deadheader]

If yer not gonna sell the alcohol, why do you need the ATF permit ???  I had one in Arkansas. Guy was surprised I applied for one. Just dump a gallon of Gasoline in the Alky tank, and ya got Denatured ???

[dail_h]

   wif out da permit,ya makin moonshine

[Fla._Deadheader]

Drop a car battery in it, to speed it up ???  ;D ;D

  Let the Feds drink it 

[dail_h]

   I know how ta make it bofe ways,where ya kin drank it like iced tea,an where ya kan't drank it atall ;D
   Just want to have all my paper work right to avoid having to 'splain stuff.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Dail
Yer processor resemble this ???  ;D ;D

[dail_h]

   DH,
   I'm planning about a 150 gal pot in a waterbath cooker,one ,or maybe more thump kegs ,a 4 to 6 in. reflux colum. I have to be creative,and use whatever I can scrounge up. Already have several oil tanks of various sizes,acess to as many pallet totes as I want,and a bunch of black iron pipe.
   Oh yeah ,the picture looks an awful lot like an old friend from the past. ;D ;D ;D

[Fla._Deadheader]

That column is 8' tall and filled with glass marbles. It has a PVC water jacket around the outside.

[LT40HDD51]

I want to hear more about the paddlewheel generators. I have a small river running about 50' from where I want to build, harnessing constantly moving water sounds like a good idea...

I looked on the net a bit on the subject, and found a couple models available for towing behind a sailboat, or to be mounted underwater in a river. Basically just a propeller like off a boat, with a generator sealed in the hind end. I thought I could build one like the tow-behind model, for much less that $2000 us (conversion, duty tax, that burns  :-\). I'd love to see or hear more about homemade jobs people have done, and any ideas...

Just did a bunch more research, check this out: Darrius water wheel. Looks very interesting... maybe build one myself...  ???
(looking at the one called "Mark 2")

[dail_h]

   LT40DD51S,
   Boy I hope I got that right. Oh the post,I saw a thing on RFD Ithikkit was ,guy built a punp outta a combine cylinder and two pontoons ,and an old piston well pump.He put two doors on the front to increase the flow through it ,and tied it in the stream ,so it could rise and fall with the stream height.Should be fairly easy to do ,make the wheel bigger to make better use of the flow ,and make the platform wide and long enough to be stable.

[LT40HDD51]

The darrieus type can be used in fairly shallow water, as is my situation. That is why its used, it has a wide diameter but only needs maybe 3 feet of water to work properly. It only needs a couple feet/second of flow too. I think that a revolving drum may stir up more sediment, as well...

I know a guy who is into fiberglass and can build anything. Ive been thinking of getting him to build me the wings and Id build the rest.

Hey Swampdonkey, do you know anything on local regulations about putting something like that in a river? Id use veg. based grease, and put it on pontoons and tie it to the bank somehow so it wasnt permanent. Any ideas/concerns?

[fuzzybear]

sorry for the delay. With our twins only a few weeks away from being born it has been very hectic here. As for my paddle wheel right now it is out of the river for the winter and burried under 2' of snow. the river should be broke by mid May and I'll have it back in the river as soon as the ice flow stops.
   As for details... it is 8' wide with a diameter of 16'. This enables me to have 3 paddles in contact with the water at all times. (one entering the flow, one in the flow, and one exiting the flow.) this design works well in slower moving creeks and rivers and very well in fast moving water. It is built almost the same way as you build a fish wheel. (you can find lots of info on the web about them for designs) The Yukon river flows at about 15mph. with this speed and the reduction box I can run a diesel style gen set. The wheel produces around 48hp. I could get more if I used metal instead of wood for the wheel and used greaseable bearings instead of mylar sheeting between the beam and supports.
   I cant remember off the top of my head what I used for gearing ratios.  But when I get it back in the river I'll look again. I've changed it a couple of times over the years and forgot what I tried last. I'll also get pics up when we drop it back in.
   Mostly what I've learned is that it all depends on the water flow and the paddle size. The faster the flow the bigger the paddle and the more horsepower you get. 
   One of my neighbors down river said his new design should produce 200hp. If I can fanagle it out of him I'll post the particulars.  I suspect it is an aluminum design around 12'.
   One area you can look at for design ideas for the wheel itself is the old paddlewheeler ships. Same principle only it is on a larger scale than what you need. just scale it down in your designs.
   All I can tell you is just experiment as I did. You will find out what works and what doesn't. Just remember that in the spring run off the river moves faster than in the fall.
   If you have any specific questions just drop me a note and I'll try to get back to you as soon as I can.

[SwampDonkey]

LT40, I gotta search a bit on here because we have a lad up in the north woods of On-tare-I-O I believe that has a system set up worth consideration. ;D

[LT40HDD51]

Right on, I appreciate it .

Did yer power go up recently?

[SwampDonkey]

I don't know where Jeff B buried the thread yet  ;), still searching. Been typing in every dang search word I can think of. It was that guy that flew up to his camp on the lake and had a stream powered generator he made.

My power bill is next to nothing each month, the highest being under $100 in mid winter. My phone bill costs more than electric, I'd rather be rid of the phone. ;D Our rate doesn't go up usually until April, but I imagine it will.