Poor mans skyline-system

[OddInTheForrest]

Hello again friends.

Just wanted to share my homemade poor mans skyline system, and see if anyone has something of the same nature that they use. 

My system is fairly simple, ment for ligther use, say less than 1 metric tonne. Could be upscaled, but small is good for me so far.

It concists of 4 snatchblocks, 1 and 2 make up the carriage, 3 hangs under no 1, and no 4 hangs on the liftline, but below the carriage. 

Its relatively ligth, can be backpack carried to where its needed, and can be used with either my tractor winch or my capstanwinch. 

Basically, the carriage rides on a 9tonne dynema, suspended over the work area. Dynema is secured with wire-comalong/ratchet jack, wich pulls 4 tonnes. 

The system is gravityfeed, or at least helped. 

The log is hooked up to block no4, that rides up or down, directly under the carriage. Block no3 hangs under block no1, and this allows the gearing of the system to function. 
It will obviously only travel the ligthest way first, but more often than not, it will go up towards the carriage, before coming towards the winch itself. 
Relatively low-tech, but it works, and prevents the trees from beeing dug down when I winch. 
Will try to add some pictures from the construction, and some from the system in use later this week or next.

Does anyone have something like this built? Or something similar?

Regards
Odd

[mike_belben]

i have sketched it out a few times, made 20 trips around the yard, revamped the sketch, 5 more trips, and earmarked all the materials to make a small  fold up tower on the back of my tractor.  

electric winches for the skyline and guywires, a home made 2 drum PTO carriage line and haulback.  i cant even start it until i have moved my lathe and mill down so its probably a few years.  one sawlog at a time out of steep bottoms is all i expect it to do, and based on what ive seen mini yarder systems accomplish now im certain i can make it work if i just live long enough to deal with all the other obstacles in the way of starting.

im real eager to see pics and vid of what youve done.

[Ljohnsaw]

 :P A picture or two?  Or even a drawing?

[barbender]

I posted a link to one many years ago, on the forum. A guy made a small skyline and used a front tine tiller converted to provide the winch for it. It looked pretty slick!

[OddInTheForrest]

[OddInTheForrest]

Here is a few pictures of the concept. This was something I rigged up in one of the workshops on a cablelaying boat I worked on, hence why the cramped space. But its shows whats happening more or less.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I have used about 200' of 1/4" cable tied to a tree on the bank on the other side of the tree and the other to the end of my tractor and I used a 20,000 lb snatch block as a pulley. I tied bundles of firewood and short logs to the loops in the snatch block and pulled them across the creek. I did not have a powered winch like you see in the logging shows out west and just used a tag line to pull the load across the creek. It reduced the trips I had to make across the creek by 4 to 5 times what it would have taken.

  I have always wonder why we don't doo more of this in WV. Where we have plenty of elevation. I'm anxious to see you pictures showing your set up.

   Here is the style snatch blocks I used.
Snatch Block (harborfreight.com)

[OddInTheForrest]

https://youtu.be/S5wiCbGgkSs

https://youtu.be/S5wiCbGgkSs

Hopefully, this will show you two short videos of the concept !

[OddInTheForrest]

  I have used about 200' of 1/4" cable tied to a tree on the bank on the other side of the tree and the other to the end of my tractor and I used a 20,000 lb snatch block as a pulley. I tied bundles of firewood and short logs to the loops in the snatch block and pulled them across the creek. I did not have a powered winch like you see in the logging shows out west and just used a tag line to pull the load across the creek. It reduced the trips I had to make across the creek by 4 to 5 times what it would have taken.

 I have always wonder why we don't doo more of this in WV. Where we have plenty of elevation. I'm anxious to see you pictures showing your set up.

  Here is the style snatch blocks I used.
Snatch Block (harborfreight.com)

I have done a interesting firewood operation like this myself in the past. 
Had 100m of rope up a valley, fairly steep grounds. Had loose blocks on the rope, slung up x amount of trees with a sling forward end and back end, then used my land rover to pull the line. It lifted under tension, raised the logs of, and sent them down the line. Just had to be freakin carefull to let it go slack at the rigth time. We took out 50 cubic meters of wood in very short time with this system
Will see if I can find a video of this !

[OddInTheForrest]

  I have used about 200' of 1/4" cable tied to a tree on the bank on the other side of the tree and the other to the end of my tractor and I used a 20,000 lb snatch block as a pulley. I tied bundles of firewood and short logs to the loops in the snatch block and pulled them across the creek. I did not have a powered winch like you see in the logging shows out west and just used a tag line to pull the load across the creek. It reduced the trips I had to make across the creek by 4 to 5 times what it would have taken.

 I have always wonder why we don't doo more of this in WV. Where we have plenty of elevation. I'm anxious to see you pictures showing your set up.

  Here is the style snatch blocks I used.
Snatch Block (harborfreight.com)

https://youtu.be/esBXsJNSgL4
https://youtu.be/cKybGRcCOpo
This shows how it worked, more or less ;)

[Ljohnsaw]

Woah! That comes screaming down the line!  Does the line jamb to prevent the log from dropping when there is slack?  My situation is the opposite.  I have to go up a pretty good hill.

[mike_belben]

My carriage plan is pretty much the same.  I have iron fence rollers for pulleys that ride a 3" diameter pipe and have 1-1/8 shafts with big needle bearings.  Probably 20 pounds each.   I want to be able to join multiple segments of cable with shackle links and have the carriage still be able to pass over the joints. 

[Quebecnewf]

I have been interested in this on a small scale for many years . 

Tried a setup one time in the woods but never worked the way I wanted . Too much sag in my skyline . Could not get enough tension into it and rope I was using had too much stretch . 

Still think it's a very good setup for certain locations . 

I need a way to raise and lower the skyline quickly and have it bar tight while it's raised . 

With only one winch ( small capstan ) this is not as easy as it seems to do . Or at least I have not figured that part out .

Quebecnewf 

[DMcCoy]

If you are wanting to move firewood and small poles down hill an old time method used in the hills around here for moving cedar shake bolts was  #12 or #14 galvanized tight wire and metal fence staples.  it works insanely well and the impact makes the staples..."self-releasing" :D
Tie the low end to a stump or large metal object like a dozer blade, I would recommend at least a 50' perimeter of durable items. 

[DMcCoy]

Here is my downhill gravity carriage.  Very importantly - it is self releasing!  I work alone in the woods and I need 1 man options.  It will ride galvanized wire or 1/4" cable.  I bought 2,000' of #12 galvanized wire for about $80 a couple of years ago.  I will use power line type clamps which are removable so I don't have to cut it.  On the left is the retrieval rope - once the load is released I can pull it back up hill. Inside the outer square tube is an inner one that slides and is connected to the load holding rod at the back end.  The bumper on the right end activates the release. The chokers are a piece of heavy wire and lumber binding strap - super cheap and light weight.  I can carry dozens up a hill.


 
The wire needs to be a hook.  Otherwise you will be fumbling around trying to get the release mechanism closed while holding the load.  You can add multiple chokers this way as well.


 
This is the bumper end.  Impact with a stopping block shoves the inner tube back releasing the load.



The rope end.


 
The wheels I made on my lathe and have roller bearings.  I suspect this will travel insanely fast.  Yeah...I haven't used it yet, but this summer I have a lot of trees knocked down by snow in hard to get to areas that are uphill.  How many impacts it will tolerate I'm not sure,  Grease I'm sure will help with the release rod function.

[Quebecnewf]

I like that self releasing idea . Very clever . If I'm understanding this correctly your tight line stays tight ?

You do not slack it of to hitch on your loads .. ?

Quebecnewf 

[John Mc]

Interesting idea, DMcCoy. Any idea how much weight one of our choker/wire hook assemblies can handle?

OddInTheForrest - I'm looking forward to watching your videos later today. Your set-up  sounds very interesting.

[Sixacresand]

Interesting ideas.  Looking for a ways to get slabs off the mill and far away to a burn pile or slab rack.

[mike_belben]

That is really slick DMcCoy, anxious to hear how it goes. 


If i had to move slabs off a mill by wire id set up a reversible direction clothes line of sorts.  If the line can go downhill itd be pretty easy.  Maybe a 55g drum with open ends piled with slabs.  a hinge and trip latch so that when the delivery gets to the end of the line the barrel dumps from horizontal to vertical over the pile. Or maybe a trap door belly dump.  I suppose two chains could be anchored on one end and tripped loose at the other so it rise down as 2 basket slings under a bundle.  Then like DmCoys invention, the stopper rod hits the stop, shifts and pulls pins out of the chains to drop the pile.  You reel it back up with 2 chains dangling by the fixed ends and reset for the next load. 

[DMcCoy]

I like that self releasing idea . Very clever . If I'm understanding this correctly your tight line stays tight ?

You do not slack it of to hitch on your loads .. ?

Quebecnewf

Thanks. Correct.  I plan on using this for firewood so lifting pieces up.  I used a come-along to tension my previous tight wire/staple experience.  I have a HF 1500lb winch with a remote that I find very handy.  It could be used on the upper end to slack the main wire.  There is a youtube of this.  The guy used a suitcase generator to charge a battery to run the winch. 

[AndrewM]

Another self-releasing method is to use baling twine as chokers and affix a v-blade cutter to the skyline cable.

The Zig-zag yarder from Japan, adapted by the USFS and others for use in the US, used this method. There are some interesting examples of cheap cable yarding methods from South Africa also.

For a single drum winch, a running skyline using your winch as a capstan is very economical, but you may want a remote start/stop functionality to attach loads.

A couple of terms that might help:

Live skyline: the suspending cable can be raised or lowered while loads (turns) are being yarded

Standing skyline: suspending cable is always under full tension during the yarding cycle. 

[DMcCoy]

Interesting idea, DMcCoy. Any idea how much weight one of our choker/wire hook assemblies can handle?

OddInTheForrest - I'm looking forward to watching your videos later today. Your set-up  sounds very interesting.

It really depends on the wire imho,  I'm counting on 50-100lbs with the wire I used, but I haven't tested it.  I suppose I could hook it to something and step in the loop, but I haven't yet. The strap I think would hold quite a bit.
The whole carriage could be scaled up, including double load holding points with a double release, heavier wheels, etc.  Making an 8' long one of these seems reasonable as long as the tube doesn't get bent and bind up the internal sliding piece.  I wanted the one I built light enough to pull it back up easily.

[DMcCoy]

That is really slick DMcCoy, anxious to hear how it goes.


If i had to move slabs off a mill by wire id set up a reversible direction clothes line of sorts.  If the line can go downhill itd be pretty easy.  Maybe a 55g drum with open ends piled with slabs.  a hinge and trip latch so that when the delivery gets to the end of the line the barrel dumps from horizontal to vertical over the pile. Or maybe a trap door belly dump.  I suppose two chains could be anchored on one end and tripped loose at the other so it rise down as 2 basket slings under a bundle.  Then like DmCoys invention, the stopper rod hits the stop, shifts and pulls pins out of the chains to drop the pile.  You reel it back up with 2 chains dangling by the fixed ends and reset for the next load.

Thanks Mike.  Your idea sounds like a ski lift of sorts.  I'm sure it can be done.
There is a website 'Lowtech magazine'  which is a literal gold mine of old technology including endless rope drives to move stuff like coal.

[mike_belben]

yes exactly.. Ski lift and coal hopper clothes line was exactly what i was thinking of.  I will check that out, thanks. 


I have all the junk sitting here to build a small folding tower onto my tractors skidding attachment for a stationary base, maybe 19ft high or so.  The 8k remote control winch with 1/2" steel cable would give a live skyline by remote but i will need to build a PTO dual drum for a carriage and haulback.  I have the junk and know how ill do it but with my machine shop packed away up north i cant do the actual work.  

Id end up using my arborist bull ropes for guy wires. Itll take a man at each end.. Me and my boy.  I figure 8 years or so before i let him near anything real dangerous out of my arms reach.   I think single sawlogs could be done out of steep bottoms.  Thats typically the only place good clean timber is still left around here.

[47sawdust]

DMcCoy,

Can you provide a link to the youtube video mentioned ?