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Rottne Rapid Harvester issue

Started by taurus, January 21, 2019, 05:38:05 PM

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taurus

My friends rottne wheel harvester(1991 with 4cyl turbo ford engine) is only working on front wheels. I think it is an electrical or air problem possibly even just air lines froze up as it had the issue one other day but after it warmed up, it worked on all wheels. but is there a way to manually lock the rears in and override the electric/air system for it?  also has anyone else ever had this issue.

barbender

Sorry, I am not familiar with that machine. The Ponsse machines I am familiar with, can be shifted out of 4wd (for a lack of a better term) it's electrical and I assume solenoid actuated. No air controls anywhere except on the seat.
Too many irons in the fire

1Islander

Hey Taurus. The exact same thing happened to me. How to you get this issue resolved? Or maybe I bought ther harvester your friend sold?

snowstorm

if its a rapid its 6 wheel. if it is 6 wheel there is a switch to shut off the wagon drive. wiring problem or something going on with the electric valve. small door that swings down just ahead of the center pins. yup lay under it. take the plug off and or magnet dont recall witch one it is. there is 3 or 4 there

1Islander

Yes it's a 6wd Rapid. I have power at the wagon drive switch. I also have an issue with the high idle, power at the switch but nothing running. I believe that it also operates with air. I haven't drained the air tank in a while. I figure it froze up now. I don't have an air guage in the cab so I am going to install on elsewhere to make sure I have all kinds of pressure. Yesterday my tractor wheels wouldn't even turn, today they did but only in one direction. I would like to know what valves/solenoids operate what function. Books are great in theory but they haven't given me my ah ha moment yet. My two park brake lights were on (bron and park I think). I figure I do have an air problem as one light light stays on. We don't run it often but it would be wonderful if it could work properly.

Dom

A call to a dealer is a good place to start in my opinion.

1Islander

I have. I am working with Steve. Worst part is working on something that is 20 years old, not all information is readly available. However the Forestry forum is full of wonderful people :)

Dom

There was one mechanic in Moncton that actually worked on designing the electrical system on these machines, he's retired now though. He was great.  I did hear that he worked once in a while, you could ask for Rolf.

snowstorm

onmine the wagon drive dose not run off of air. just because you have power to the switch dosent mean the magnet if ok. like i told you get under it there is a hinged door. one is 2 speed 1 is wagon drive. there may be 3 its been a while. take the wire connector off. the high idle should be air. if you have power to it and air its the magnet or the oring in it. never saw one with out a air pressure gage should be 7 or 8 bar. i have called moncton a couple times when the rottne guy on this side of the border was in sweden they were very helpful. go get some air brake alcohol and put that in the plastic jar on the air regulator. good luck finding a tec manual i was told they never made any. now get to it 

1Islander

Thanks Dom and Snowstorm! Great to hear what you are saying. I've got the front and back pans off. Theres still a center that I will have to get to. Yes I do have the bar gauge. Took out the airtank and got it unthawed (some sludge came out). Put some methelhydrate in there. From the tank, Everything goes to an air manifold. I have a spare port and put a gauge there and had no reading. Might be a bad gauge but now I've got to cleanout the manifold to be sure. When talking to the dealer. I told them that I don't mind aways having the bogey engaged. Initially they told me that there was a quarterinch line going to the gearbox. If I capped that, it would always be engaged. Dropped the pan and the line was already capped. Anyways I'll be flushing air lines and jumping on the electrical afterwards. Might be cold tomorrow -13 to -21*C or 8 to -5*F. but we'll get it done

snowstorm

i did not take the belly pan down just a small door 

Dom

Small door along the frame right?

Out of curiosity, is the harvester a dangle head harvester or a two 2 grip? I do remember we had air pumps and valves at Rocan, but it was not inventory that moved. 

Best of luck in the cold! You'll get it going.  :)

1Islander

No small door to my knowlegde. 
In the manual there's one pictured on the boom  but not on my machine. 
She's a tangle head I believe, an old EGS 85.


snowstorm

way to many hoses and wires running to that head

Dom

Yup, nice machine for 30 years old. Surprised we can look through the cab. Not many of those machines around, especially with that head. The door that snowstorm was referring is around the midpoint, but I cant remember if the yellow frames had them. 

snowstorm

some things were pretty well built on them. a few that were not the air over hydraulic brakes i dont care for that. the crane the old style not much swing power and if you get the boom to high it goes over center. and then there is the wiring its in Swedish and those little plastic fuses. i just replaced the hydraulic pump on mine along with rebuilding the gear box. a big surprise was the new clutch disc will not fit the gear on the flywheel   

mike_belben

I think the price on those hoses woulda payed for a solenoid bank valve to live in the head 2x over. Surprised they built it that way. 
Praise The Lord

1Islander

Great feedback. I toyed to the machine today, finally the cold eased off. For anyone that has a machine that operates with air, the misery running that in the winter. Off my compressor, I have a 3way block; fast idle, pedal brakes and another 3 bank manifold (thats where I put the guage lastime). I played with the fast idle. It runs on a spring return cylinder. There must be gunk in there as it doesn't have enough pressure to pull it back. The magnet and solenoid works as it's letting air through. The line from my compressor to the 3 bank manifold was froze. Took it off and left it next to the furnase for an hour. After I flushed it and reinstalled it, I had pressure at the guage! I hopped in the cab hoping to get it mobile. My wagon drive now works but my machine only goes in one direction now (reverse). So it's partially good news. I would consider myself a half mechanic. So now I have to figure what make the machine go back and forth. I assume theres air involved. I must have a bad connection as my P-brake light flickers. I assume it's not like a truck where you need air to release the brakes. Also does anyone know what the P-broms means, it's the parking light above my P-brake light?  

1Islander

I am aware there's way too many hoses. Chasing leaks, I practically change 1 hose per week. I bought this baby to cut wood on the farm. Still getting used to it. Originally I was looking for a machine with a stroke head but it was above my budget. I wanted to stick to a wheeled harvester as working on the farm, tracked machines are a different beast for us. Like the previous owner said, you're better off the find a machine with the head you want on it. Changing a head and computer can be costly and time consuming. I don't want to end up with something where I have to cut 6 days a week to pay for it.

snowstorm

forward and reverse do not use air. lever on the dash and it may have a toggle switch on the rite arm rest. going backwards towards the crane it should be on high idle working speed. high idle has to work to cut wood. on low idle it will move by pushing the petal as its increasing rpm  and hystat flow the same for forward. on hi its only hystat

1Islander

I figure I would give an update. I was able to get it moving. I just had to flush out the air lines as there was ice in them. everything seemed to work after that. Obvisouly with the cold weather, we have to properly warm up the machine including the hydraulics. I still have to play with the fast idle. I took everything apart and cleaned the air cylinder. I need to work on the solenoid and air delivery to it. So we ran it for the day and started having a hydraulic leak on one of the rack cylinder to rotate the boom. I litterally did the 4 piston seals a few weeks ago...great. Anyways the seals were fine at the end. I believe the pressure built up in the rotator housing where the gear oil is. Unfortunately I have crack in my ring casing bearing for the boom. I believe that snow/water gets in and freezes in the housing popping the seals. My reasoning behind that is after changing the seals and draining the boom housing the first time, it was full of ice. I got everything out and used a tiger torch. and a few weeks later, seals popped out and more ice in the rack housing. Anyways last time I might have put too much oil (therefore not enought room) in it with the drain plug removed. This time I put less oil in it but 1 question I have is should/could that housing be vented? 

Anyways everything was working perfect the other day, my operator phoned me and said then the wagon drive quit again. I ask if he had air pressure and said no so now I have a leak to find. I would really like the mechanically engage the wagon drive and stop listening for air leaks. On top of that, she always started fine and today decided not to start even after boosting it with the farm tractor for 1 hour.

And the fun times continue

mike_belben

clean up all of your battery connections.  posts and terminals, lugs, whatever.  both positive and negative.  if there is no ground wire on the starter, add one all the way to the battery negative.  this is important, iron is a poor conductor and excellent corrodor. jumper cable is fine for temporary service.

if your batteries aren't hold 12.4vdc or better bring them to the shop, pop the caps, add distilled water (or acid) to the cells and fill to 3/8" below the vent slits then charge on a hot jumper mode with caps open to boil off the sulfates.  on a 200amp jumper box this is about 17vdc.  it'll cook off sulfate gas which is explosive and sickening so keep doors open.  boil the cells maybe 3 to 5 minutes then switch to trickle charge overnight.  they should rest at about 12.4vdc or better.  if this doesn't get the starter RPM up, pull the starter and take it apart.  


look to see that the brushes aren't used up and commutator isn't grooved.  sandpiper shine up the copper keys, scrape out the carbon from the grooves and spray it off with ether or brake cleaner etc then ohm out the windings to be sure no shorts or opens on the armature and reassemble.  8 of 10 times you'll be back to starting like new after doing all of it.  if the starter is good and batts are new and its not fast, you've got a failing battery cable.. usually at the terminal crimp.  i try to trim them back and recrimp new copper lugs and use 3/8 stud top group 31 950cca batteries.  if a cable is black and crusty it needs trimmed back to fresh copper and new lug soldered.
Praise The Lord

snowstorm

i would save a lot of typing if you would just call. there is a bracket on the crane thats holds the cousin valve the bottom bolt  drains the gear oil the top 1 is fill level. it should be drained every fall. when new there was a rubber seal with a big hose clamp to hold it in place. not starting is it 12 volt or dose it start on 24? by the step when you tip the cab up they may be a series Pharrell switch there is 2 small metal strips on each side they are fuses. also 2 sets of points inside. put air break acholi in the plastic jar on the air regulator. that will take care of air problems. i still say the wagon drive is spring loaded to engage. there is a lot i could tell you about it but i hate typing   

snowstorm

group 31 batteries are to tall. i have seen it done but there really shouldn't. and there is heat for them but only when the motor is running oil tank is also heated

Dom

Many users rebuilt the racks every spring, mind you those were machines that ran 24/7. By this time of year,it wasn't uncommon to hear a tube of grease got poured in. ;) 

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