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North American Fires 2020

Started by Riwaka, September 11, 2020, 01:53:34 AM

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Riwaka

Looks bad. Is there still much locked up forest land?

Oregon Fire (KGW news) with Kate Brown (sounds really bad)
Historic fires continue to burn in Oregon - YouTube

Butte County, California (ABC10) 
Bear Fire morning update: September 10, 2020 | California Wildfires - YouTube

Washington King5 - very sad
Western Washington wildfire coverage on Wednesday, Sept. 9 at 5 p.m. - YouTube

Firewoodjoe

I don't want to get all political and I'm across the nation from it so I don't know the situation but by the sounds of it it's lack of management of logging controlled burns and power lines. 🤷🏼‍♂️ Either way it's a bad deal. Lots of loss. 

Riwaka

Detroit, Oregon - housing, church, rv park etc leveled 

Oregon woman describes wildfire devastation in her hometown of Detroit - YouTube

Makes you think what would you take apart from the id, insurance certs, photos, pets, etc? If you had to get out in a hurry. 

mike_belben

Sad for all. Hope you folks are all safe out there. :(
Praise The Lord

quilbilly

I live about 15 miles from a small fire. You would have a hard time understanding the mismanagement. Basically the Sierra club controls the forest service. I believe @Skeans1  is really close to a big fire. The one near me is small.

I have a friend who runs an engine working on the chickamin fire, we just drove from glacier NP and visibility is terrible. We can see from our house right now about a half mile. Normally we can see up to 15 or so. 
a man is strongest on his knees

Skeans1

@quilbilly 
We aren't close to any last I saw the county I live in and one other to the west are the only two that don't have any fires going right now. My in-laws live not too far off 205 north of Oregon City and they have a level one evacuation notice right.

This was shot Tuesday morning at home at 7am

 Well this was shot on Thursday at 630 pm looking towards Clackamas Town Center visibility was a mile at best.

Skeans1

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on September 11, 2020, 09:26:37 AM
I don't want to get all political and I'm across the nation from it so I don't know the situation but by the sounds of it it's lack of management of logging controlled burns and power lines. 🤷🏼‍♂️ Either way it's a bad deal. Lots of loss.
Most of this is decades in the making from Spotted Owl that shut down a lot of the land out here that's what's burning is Federal/State ground. As to the cause of the fires a lot of these have been burning since August from a lightning storm we had. To the controlled burns that's pretty much a no no because of the big city around us and Doug Fir doesn't survive fire like pine do.

BAN

I have 2 modules falling danger trees now on the Cold Springs fire in NE Wa(200,000 acres) We went from a mild fire season to historically bad with one 60mph wind storm Monday.  Its devastating.  The road we are working on has 20 burned homes and 600 burned power poles. The back end of road people are told they will have power by February. Fortunately only 1 death so far. No rain in site and no resources if there is one. My 4 guys are the only fallers on the whole fire. Could be here until snow.

quilbilly

On the way back from Montana we drove highway 20 most of the way. Right next to some of the big fires in Washington. I reckon pretty close to you. 

They aren't fighting the mt Lena fire near us and to be honest I hope they don't. It's the only way they'll ever log the ONF is with a salvage sale. There isn't anyone near the fire anyway. Let it burn till it rains in October. 

We are shutdown out here for falling timber. Do you still have to take classes to fight fire as a contractor or will they just let you do it now, when there is so much need 
a man is strongest on his knees

BAN

Hwy 20 is very close to here. You do have to be red card trained but in 2015 they put classes on as soon as fires started bad and equipment guys got out fast. They've changed specs on calling guys and equipment out but not for the better. There is no overhead to run these fires right now though. If you don't have someone to manage the fire more equipment doesn't help. Its really a catastrophe and could get worse if we get more starts. Theres 250 firefighters on this fire and would normally be 700-900. 

Riwaka

Fireline - 1 minute film

FIRELINE - YouTube


Crazy/ies allegedly harming power poles near vegetation - Wa 08/2020 (need some rural microphones like the gunshot microphones?)
'Very dangerous': Police and FBI investigate power poles cut with chainsaw in Snohomish County - YouTube

Ron Scott

~Ron

BAN

The fire we are on was arson but most fires up here were a result of 60mph winds at beginning of driest time of year. Its so different fighting fires now than even ten years ago. So many people are building in high fire areas. More people equals more fires. The Colville national forest has upped its cut to 100 million feet a year so minds are changing quickly about managing forests but we are 20 years from being in a safer place.

Riwaka

John Spenser - strategy update - Beachie Creek Fire, Oregon, September 2020. 

Oregon wildfires: Update on Beachie Creek fire - YouTube

quilbilly

Quote from: BAN on September 13, 2020, 11:51:16 PM
The fire we are on was arson but most fires up here were a result of 60mph winds at beginning of driest time of year. Its so different fighting fires now than even ten years ago. So many people are building in high fire areas. More people equals more fires. The Colville national forest has upped its cut to 100 million feet a year so minds are changing quickly about managing forests but we are 20 years from being in a safer place.
I'd like to see ONF just get to ten. Where is all that wood gonna go? Only three to four mills within a couple hours right? Vaagen, boise and doesn't Idaho forest group have one? Either way it's a good start. Be safe out there.
a man is strongest on his knees

BAN

Quote from: quilbilly on September 14, 2020, 02:18:43 PM
Quote from: BAN on September 13, 2020, 11:51:16 PM
The fire we are on was arson but most fires up here were a result of 60mph winds at beginning of driest time of year. Its so different fighting fires now than even ten years ago. So many people are building in high fire areas. More people equals more fires. The Colville national forest has upped its cut to 100 million feet a year so minds are changing quickly about managing forests but we are 20 years from being in a safer place.
I'd like to see ONF just get to ten. Where is all that wood gonna go? Only three to four mills within a couple hours right? Vaagen, boise and doesn't Idaho forest group have one? Either way it's a good start. Be safe out there.
Vaagens has two(colville and usk). Boise has two in Kettle Falls and one in Arden. Theres also a small cedar mill north of Kettle Falls and several mills in North Idaho. Canadians have been buying peelers up in Northport last two years also. About 4-5 years ago all the Colville national forest cut was around 15-20 million a year but switching to these new stewardship sales has really changed the game. State of Idaho is try to take over the management of there national forests but haven't heard where that is going. Safety is always first on a fire :D

mike_belben

glad you and the family are safe skeans, be careful.
Praise The Lord

Nebraska

I hope they catch the (appropriate terms not germane to forum use here  so... insert your own) people who are cutting power poles with chainsaws.  What kind of person does that, blows my mind.....

mike_belben

Well, in the 1990s it was called monkey wrenching and itd be your eco-warriors doing it.  Same people who sat in trees for weeks and drove spikes in the prevent logging.

I dont know anything about this specific pole cutter but they are out there.  "EarthFirst and "The ReWilding institute" comes to mind.  Probably the same dozen kooks under their tenth new name by now.  Basically the radicalized underground moonbat wing of sierra club type groups.


I can never watch this without laughing. 
EarthFirst Mourning Loss of a Tree - Crying & Screaming - YouTube
Praise The Lord

Nathan Harp

It is not the lack of forest management that is causing this.  There were more trees 200 years ago weren't there.  

I agree that fire suppression has led to too much fuel, making the fires more devastating, where old growth could handle it.  
If there is mismanagement of the land to blame, it is not the wooded land that was mismanaged in the last 50 years, more like the last 50-150; and building homes and towns deeper into the forests brings more attention for sure.   

It is climate change, plain and simple.  Don't let your politics get in the way of reason and facts.  
The cases of arson are unfortunate, but you can't scapegoat this to a few bad acts.

Science denial and politically pointing the blame definitely wont help anything.  
Our education systems have failed us.  

We all know that logging is appropriate, and it is best done along with a scientific planning for the immediate and long term future of the land.  
I seriously doubt that an increase in cutting in the last 20 years would have had any deterrent to what we are seeing now.    

BradMarks

No.  It is not that simple.  Were people talking climate change in1910 (thereabouts) when Northern Idaho burned up, and hillsides still today with no trees to speak of?  How about the Tillamook Burn (1933), again in the 40's?  The Oxbow burn, while I was in high school (I'm 66)?.  And the answer of "we didn't know about climate change then" falls on deaf ears.  Weather patterns, long term, decades long, change, back and forth. When was the last ice age?  Not that long ago in terms of the earths existence. The end.

quilbilly

Quote from: Nathan Harp on September 15, 2020, 12:40:55 PM
It is not the lack of forest management that is causing this.  There were more trees 200 years ago weren't there.  

I agree that fire suppression has led to too much fuel, making the fires more devastating, where old growth could handle it.  
If there is mismanagement of the land to blame, it is not the wooded land that was mismanaged in the last 50 years, more like the last 50-150; and building homes and towns deeper into the forests brings more attention for sure.  

It is climate change, plain and simple.  Don't let your politics get in the way of reason and facts.  
The cases of arson are unfortunate, but you can't scapegoat this to a few bad acts.

Science denial and politically pointing the blame definitely wont help anything.  
Our education systems have failed us.  

We all know that logging is appropriate, and it is best done along with a scientific planning for the immediate and long term future of the land.  
I seriously doubt that an increase in cutting in the last 20 years would have had any deterrent to what we are seeing now.    
Maybe that's true where you are, it simply isn't true in the PNW. Forest management is non-existent. From decommissioning hundreds of miles of road, to not even having salvage sales it's ridiculous. There is literally millions of BF of blow down in the ONF that is being left to rot that would've been salvaged pre 1990. 
Climate change is neither pure nor simple and is an easy scapegoat for anyone who likes to point fingers. Perhaps you should keep your politics out of it? 
Maybe you could enlighten us on how not cutting more in the last 20 years wouldn't have helped. Or how logging 50-150 years ago made today's problems worse. Please tell me how my local branch of the forest service is managing correctly. 
a man is strongest on his knees

clearcut

The situation, in California at least, is all that, and more – it's complicated. We are here now - how do salvage this relationship?

First consider the scale – 33 million forested acres in a state of 105 million acres, most of which are fire adapted vegetation. Many of those acres have people living in close proximity. In a Mediterranean climate where it essentially does not rain between April and October. 

Nearly all of the non forested acres are infected with non-native annuals that go dormant by June, providing nearly unlimited fine fuel, everywhere. These engulf the native fire adapted species. This is the ecosystem that will respond to most disturbance - grazing, light fire, or heavy fire. 

The forested acres are in annual drought stress that starts dormancy. Evergreens are shedding less productive needles heavily, draping them over the understory. More fine fuels, vertically spaced.

High pressure holds over much of the state all summer, heating and drying the vegetation. By September or October the early storms start breaking through with high wind, lightening rich, moisture deficient storms. 

Current prediction is that these conditions are likely to worsen.

So you have a constant flow, of fine fuels, well distributed across much of the state. At this time, there is no ready market for all of this annual biomass. The cost of treating this biomass is enormous and ongoing. 

A very long history of fire suppression has increased fuels in many areas that they are difficult to treat by prescribed burning. In addition, California is a strict liability state - you start it - you pay to put it out plus all the damage in between - oh and by the way, if you are rural your fire insurance is cancelled. If you do mange to get a few acres in prescription, air quality is more than willing to shut you down until you can no longer hope to meet a prescription, wasting hours of time and thousands of dollars.

And welcome to California - here are the rules: no you don't won't to go there. California has incredibly detailed environmental laws, regulations, rules, and agencies, boards, and certifications to guide you on your management journey. The politics involved to change these rules are incomprehensible to me at least. 

And people are stupid, see above. But not only the arsonists, consider the campers who have to have s'mores on the hottest Labor Day recorded, and the BLM crew mowing with a relative humidity of about 14%...

Progress is being made. People are aware. There appears to be action on encouraging more prescribed burning. Fire Safe Councils and Fire Wise communities are gaining traction getting local communities to improve defensible space. 

The feds have established and maintain defensible fuel profile zones - fuel breaks - and work closely with industry to extend continuous protection across ownerships. Industry is also motivated to establish and maintain these.

I don't enjoy it, but the power company cuts the power on its aging equipment for a few days when fire conditions warrant - Public Safety Power Shutoff PSPS. Prefer running the generator for a couple of days, to burning up. Last year they were ridiculous - too often, too long, but this year they have improved their weather prediction and system isolation so it is better. PSPSs cost them a lot of money, so hopefully they will be motivated to improve the infrastructure. 
Carbon sequestered upon request.

mike_belben

How does a power plant shutdown help reduce fires?




Seems to me if you dont want one huge, unmanagable fire, youd better be having lots of routine small ones.  
Praise The Lord

Ianab

Quote from: mike_belben on September 15, 2020, 02:48:53 PM
How does a power plant shutdown help reduce fires?

Seems to me if you dont want one huge, unmanagable fire, youd better be having lots of routine small ones.  
In the conditions described it's impossible to have a small managed fire, ANY fire that starts for ANY reason becomes unmanageable if it's not caught in the first few minutes. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

BradMarks

Mike:  The power companies, in California it is mainly PG&E that is affected, shut down power in the transmission LINES, not the entire plant. This is done in anticipation of high winds, winds strong enough to sway lines (arcing) and knock down tree branches and entire trees across the lines. Those are the events that trigger powerline fires.  Unfortunately, that did not happen here locally and we have a 160,000+ acre fire at our backdoor, so to speak.

Claybraker

I'm about as far diagonally in the US from the current crisis but hope everyone involved stays safe. The Okefenokee has burned down clear to the waterline twice in my memory. Fire happens. Figure we about due for the marsh to catch fire again.

Rhodemont

There is a big concern along the Rhode Island / Ct border where thousands of acres are dead oak from gypsy moth kill.  The RI DEM brought in a logger (from VT) and cleared large parcels and miles of fire break pathways (they look to be a good 200 ft wide or more) through many others.  Lots of people complaining about the cutting but think they would be complaining a lot more if that all caught and we had a fire like you out west. 
Woodmizer LT35HD    JD4720 with Norse350 winch
Stihl 362, 039, Echo CS-2511T and now a CS-361P

Riwaka


nativewolf

Have the recent rains helped out at all?
Liking Walnut

quilbilly

Not sure yet, you can check on inciweb. I know they did where we were logging which is about an hour north of portland. Could almost make out the sun for the first time in weeks. The big hollow fire which is closest to the job was 24k acres last I checked. The rain should help but isn't putting out a fire that big. 

Due to the geography of WA and OR the cascades form a rain shadow and the eastern side gets less than half of the rain the western side does. So not sure if fires over there got any. 
a man is strongest on his knees

Skeans1

Quote from: nativewolf on September 19, 2020, 05:54:49 AM
Have the recent rains helped out at all?
The recent storms that came through were thunderstorms so they helped but also light a few more fires off.

BAN

Just got home after ten days out. Fires in eastern WA are mostly contained now. Rained some on way home but possibly got lightning as well. 


BAN

Quote from: Riwaka on September 22, 2020, 05:12:31 PM
Underground fires in Oregon

Oregon fires burning underground pose new threat - YouTube
Those roots burning underground are why I try to only burn slash in fall. Spring burning can pop back up mid summer and start fires.

BAN

Headed down to Lionshead fire in Central Oregon. Guess we aren't done with black wood quite yet. 

quilbilly

With the rain this week the NW should be ok. Idk about southern oregon or california
a man is strongest on his knees

Skeans1

Quote from: quilbilly on September 23, 2020, 08:46:50 AM
With the rain this week the NW should be ok. Idk about southern oregon or california
The problem is the wind again on something like the Lions head or the Beachie Creek fires 

quilbilly

We didn't cut today, blowing 15+. 
a man is strongest on his knees

BAN

Lionshead is creeping along but rains have slowed it way down. Our camp is at Timothy lake just off highway 26. The other guys are down at Sisters and have the bigger wood.

BradMarks

We did get some rain yesterday, north of us got a lot more.  It was preceded by strong winds from the south, which I'm sure caused some anxious moments(spot fires) on the fire lines.  Cloudy today with more precipitation expected Friday, maybe some on Sat. After that, long range forecast is for warming and drying. Following up from earlier posts (here or Historic Fires), the kids house did not burn up, although others near it did. They did sustain serious smoke damage and the freezer thawed (no elec. for 11 days) and caused extensive damage to the walls and floors of a couple rooms. Nothing compared to those who lost everything :-[.  Somehow, with 900+ destroyed homes and only minutes to escape for a lot of people, there was only one fatality. So grateful. And our forestland property by Chiloquin got spared thanks to the efforts of the Oregon Dept. of Forestry. They took command of that fire and got 'er done.  We have permission and will be traveling thru the burn this weekend to visit the property.

Gary_C

Quote from: Boreal et al on September 24, 2020, 06:00:04 PM
  When it comes to climate change adaption issues analysis; I state "we should not have to adapt."  Nor should our beloved wildlife. 
Estimate are that 95% of all species that have existed on this earth have gone extinct. If any species, beloved or not is unable to adapt, it will eventually join the 95%.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.


Riwaka


Riwaka




SwampDonkey

The power companies could at least cut back the tree edge one full tree length from the main grid lines like they have up here for decades. Letting mature trees grow up close to main lines is nonsense. Give someone a job to widen out them corridors. Oh, we can't do that. ::)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Thomasjw4

Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 22, 2021, 04:18:53 AM
The power companies could at least cut back the tree edge one full tree length from the main grid lines like they have up here for decades. Letting mature trees grow up close to main lines is nonsense. Give someone a job to widen out them corridors. Oh, we can't do that. ::)
Thats exactly what they have been doing in Western Montana. along with replacing alot of older power ppoles. 

BAN

Quote from: Thomasjw4 on February 22, 2021, 10:47:45 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 22, 2021, 04:18:53 AM
The power companies could at least cut back the tree edge one full tree length from the main grid lines like they have up here for decades. Letting mature trees grow up close to main lines is nonsense. Give someone a job to widen out them corridors. Oh, we can't do that. ::)
Thats exactly what they have been doing in Western Montana. along with replacing alot of older power ppoles.
To much private ground to widen it that much. The right of way just isn't wide enough to clear that far.

Thomasjw4

Quote from: BAN on February 22, 2021, 04:56:03 PM
Quote from: Thomasjw4 on February 22, 2021, 10:47:45 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 22, 2021, 04:18:53 AM
The power companies could at least cut back the tree edge one full tree length from the main grid lines like they have up here for decades. Letting mature trees grow up close to main lines is nonsense. Give someone a job to widen out them corridors. Oh, we can't do that. ::)
Thats exactly what they have been doing in Western Montana. along with replacing alot of older power ppoles.
To much private ground to widen it that much. The right of way just isn't wide enough to clear that far.
I should havr clarified that it is being done on Forest Service ground.   Wildland fire is what I do for my big kid job, so i am pretty interested in it. 

SwampDonkey

I can understand the land rights issues. Up here it doesn't matter, private or public. In the day, decades ago, grandfather decided he was going to have the wood in that right of way, so he had to cut it himself. Otherwise, it would be going to the loggers cutting it out for the power company. Our utility is run by a crown corporation, it's not a private company. The stroke of a pen in your legislature can change that right-of-way width one day, for the 'greater good'. It's up to you folks that have to live with it. You get enough angry people complaining about fires and loss of power and you'd be surprised what gets done. It's probably brewing. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

nativewolf

Quote from: Thomasjw4 on February 22, 2021, 10:47:45 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 22, 2021, 04:18:53 AM
The power companies could at least cut back the tree edge one full tree length from the main grid lines like they have up here for decades. Letting mature trees grow up close to main lines is nonsense. Give someone a job to widen out them corridors. Oh, we can't do that. ::)
Thats exactly what they have been doing in Western Montana. along with replacing alot of older power ppoles.
Thomas, cool.  Wildfire management in the west should be a growth job and a challenge for sure.  Thanks for the post and pictures are always good!
Liking Walnut

Skeans1

Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 22, 2021, 04:18:53 AM
The power companies could at least cut back the tree edge one full tree length from the main grid lines like they have up here for decades. Letting mature trees grow up close to main lines is nonsense. Give someone a job to widen out them corridors. Oh, we can't do that. ::)
The biggest issue out here is the state and federal grounds being left uncut they need clear cut or else this happens every time. If you take a drive over the Cascades you can see the state/federal ground it's all overgrown dead standing timber ripe for fire like this last year they're just lucky it wasn't more deadly. Two of these fires were rolling for a month before that wind storm came in to get them moving so well and both state/federal did nothing about putting them out.

SwampDonkey

Yes, but the point being made was trees falling on lines and trees catching on fire from close proximity to lines. It all adds up to fire loss no matter how it gets diced and sliced. ;D But yes, there is lots that needs to get done from many angles.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Thomasjw4

Quote from: Skeans1 on February 23, 2021, 09:29:27 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 22, 2021, 04:18:53 AM
The power companies could at least cut back the tree edge one full tree length from the main grid lines like they have up here for decades. Letting mature trees grow up close to main lines is nonsense. Give someone a job to widen out them corridors. Oh, we can't do that. ::)
The biggest issue out here is the state and federal grounds being left uncut they need clear cut or else this happens every time. If you take a drive over the Cascades you can see the state/federal ground it's all overgrown dead standing timber ripe for fire like this last year they're just lucky it wasn't more deadly. Two of these fires were rolling for a month before that wind storm came in to get them moving so well and both state/federal did nothing about putting them out.
I can only speak for my little slice of heaven, but the vast majority of logging projects get litigated and held up in court for YEARS by special interest groups.  Its not that the Feds dont want to log, quite the opposite actually, its that we arent allowed to.  

Skeans1

Quote from: Thomasjw4 on February 23, 2021, 08:23:42 PM
Quote from: Skeans1 on February 23, 2021, 09:29:27 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 22, 2021, 04:18:53 AM
The power companies could at least cut back the tree edge one full tree length from the main grid lines like they have up here for decades. Letting mature trees grow up close to main lines is nonsense. Give someone a job to widen out them corridors. Oh, we can't do that. ::)
The biggest issue out here is the state and federal grounds being left uncut they need clear cut or else this happens every time. If you take a drive over the Cascades you can see the state/federal ground it's all overgrown dead standing timber ripe for fire like this last year they're just lucky it wasn't more deadly. Two of these fires were rolling for a month before that wind storm came in to get them moving so well and both state/federal did nothing about putting them out.
I can only speak for my little slice of heaven, but the vast majority of logging projects get litigated and held up in court for YEARS by special interest groups.  Its not that the Feds dont want to log, quite the opposite actually, its that we arent allowed to.  
If they really wanted to get something done they'd find a way as well but out here there's a let it burn approach that's not helping the problem one bit.

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Thomasjw4 on February 23, 2021, 08:23:42 PM
I can only speak for my little slice of heaven, but the vast majority of logging projects get litigated and held up in court for YEARS by special interest groups.  Its not that the Feds dont want to log, quite the opposite actually, its that we arent allowed to.  
Different system here. Lobby groups can have influence, but they can't tie up progress through a court challenge. I've seen a lot of angry woodlot owners march on the legislature over issues of the day. Guess what happens. They close the doors to your woodlot association, basically taking away your voice and carry on with business as they set forth in their agenda. It would have to be something real harmful to society, and nothing 'feel good about it' to make a court challenge. Like if we as a group showed evidence that X company was polluting our drinking water, then that can be a court case. But someone not allowing me to maintain the power grid because it's a pretty pine tree they don't want cut, isn't going to go anywhere or even make a case. And more than likely you'd go to jail for trying be a nuisance, rather than something that is saving us from harm. I say 'us' because government is about us, not the whims of an individual or even a tiny group of 12 people.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Thomasjw4

Your absolutely right,  thats the way it should be, but sadly thats not how it is.  The bring the cases to specific judges and get injunctions on projects all the time.  I have had to remark sales after the paint had worn off because they had been in litigation for 15+ years!!!  Worst part is, until recently even if the special interest lost the case, they wouldnt have ro pay legal fees.  Luckily, at least that part has changed.

I am talking more about large scale logging operations, not about the powerline corridors.  They make claims about damage/destroying to wildlife habitat, lynx and grizzlies are most commonly named, even when it has been proven that selective cutting really has no impacts.   

Riwaka


SwampDonkey

Quote from: Thomasjw4 on February 24, 2021, 10:47:12 AMI am talking more about large scale logging operations, not about the powerline corridors.  They make claims about damage/destroying to wildlife habitat, lynx and grizzlies are most commonly named, even when it has been proven that selective cutting really has no impacts.  
We have had a lot of public interest meetings here in New Brunswick over forest management. The government has demonstrated many times over that they are not interested altering course outlined by interest groups. In fact, the far left wing driven parties do well to get one seat, most none at all, in the legislature. So if it were a concern to the public there would be a landslide vote. Not even close yet. So far they don't have very good leaders.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Riwaka


johndozer

 

 

 

 

 My backyard in 2018. Alkali Lake fire, Telegraph Creek NW British Columbia about 500 yards from the house. The fire season is getting longer and conditions more explosive. Up here deciduous growth is usually relied on to act as a fire break to some degree. This fire pretty much crowned through the deciduous. I am a helicopter mechanic by trade and have been on the fringe of wildfires for 40+ years. There have always been anomalous dry years but increasingly it is becoming series of dry years. Snow pack in Telegraph is about 200% of normal this winter but the Stikine River barely froze, folks were stuck on the other side for most of the winter which is unusual. Kamloops has already had 6 fires this year and I am going to work on an initial attack helicopter in mid April which 10 years ago would have seemed unthinkable. Hopefully it remembers to rain this summer.

BAN

Quote from: johndozer on March 20, 2021, 02:04:23 PM


 

 

 

 My backyard in 2018. Alkali Lake fire, Telegraph Creek NW British Columbia about 500 yards from the house. The fire season is getting longer and conditions more explosive. Up here deciduous growth is usually relied on to act as a fire break to some degree. This fire pretty much crowned through the deciduous. I am a helicopter mechanic by trade and have been on the fringe of wildfires for 40+ years. There have always been anomalous dry years but increasingly it is becoming series of dry years. Snow pack in Telegraph is about 200% of normal this winter but the Stikine River barely froze, folks were stuck on the other side for most of the winter which is unusual. Kamloops has already had 6 fires this year and I am going to work on an initial attack helicopter in mid April which 10 years ago would have seemed unthinkable. Hopefully it remembers to rain this summer.
Same conditions here. Real good snow fall up high but down low grass is growing.  A wet June could change things but looking like another long fire season. 

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