Horse Logging

[aspo]

Hey, just curious if anyone knows where a guy can get the rigging for horse logging now days. I pretty much need everything except the horses. I have a team of two clydes. It is not anything I have done before but I do have experience with horses and know a few guys who grew up doing it and will come show me the ropes for a couple days if need be. My biggest issue right now is finding rigging. I am in Northern BC in the Bulkley Valley so looking for stuff nearby. Thanks for your help. 

[mudfarmer]

Are you looking to log single or with the team? Using a cart, or tongs/chain on a tree? Log grabs and skip hammers can be bought here if that is the way you are going to pull https://horseloggersupply.com/

You can buy most anything on the internet, but if you have a welder can make things like singletrees/eveners, cart, whathaveyou.

Not sure how many people are on here in your area that will know where to get stuff locally. If you can't find anywhere things like harnesses and collars can be bought online as well.

Look up "Working Horses With Jim" on youtube and just copy what he is doing ;D

Good luck and happy pulling

[doc henderson]

thee is still a custom harness shop in Yoder, Ks.  Amish so not sure how much they are on the internet.  They might have a "girl" in the office to do that kinds stuff.  I will check if needed, but sounds like you are getting easier references.

[doc henderson]

It was changed to Bontrager, and now is Diamond K,  620-465-2279

[samandothers]

Maybe search utube and as in a comments section where they find their rigs.  Maybe your friends know of where some may be found.  It is interesting to watch horse logging. 
Best of luck!

[sawguy21]

Welcome aboard! I got to know your area quite well, beautiful country but too cold in winter for this old guy. Have you checked the local buy and sell or Craigslist? There is probably a lot of horse tack in old barns that couuld be refurbished.

[SwampDonkey]

These folks (both businesses) are in Wallenstein, Ontario. Never dealt with them. I'd be making a trip once things get better.

Online Catalogue - Harness and Supplies for Horse, Dairy and Pet | Aaron Martin Harness Ltd.

#295 Team Leather Work Harness with #510 Hames | 295-510BC


Draft Horse Connection Magazine

[dustintheblood]

These folks (both businesses) are in Wallenstein, Ontario. Never dealt with them. I'd be making a trip once things get better.

Online Catalogue - Harness and Supplies for Horse, Dairy and Pet | Aaron Martin Harness Ltd.

#295 Team Leather Work Harness with #510 Hames | 295-510BC


Draft Horse Connection Magazine

That's who I got mine from when I did it years ago.  I kept all my tack, harness, whipple trees, etc etc just in case one day I got back into it for fun.
Top tip.  The new nylon harness really is a dream to work with vs. leather.

[kantuckid]

There's a FB Woodmizer Group with a member in IN that does both machine and horse logging. If you post there he will come up. He has posted pictures of his horse setup which appears to be ag implement wheel assemblies on a small axle with horse harness hookups.
 Also, there are horse loggers on the KY Certified Master Logger list. Calling afew phone numbers around areas where the Amish live in KY will get you results. Fleming Co, Nicholas, Bath are a couple that come to mind but there are many here. Anywhere below Ft Wayne, IN or Columbus, OH has lots of Amish horse users. 

[olcowhand]

Aspo,
There are many considerations to address before you actually begin "Logging" with your Team.
As far as Rigging is concerned, most any Leather or Nylon "Work" Harness will get you started. Make sure your Harnesses are fitted with "Quarter (some use "Breeching") straps" and Choke Strap to allow the horses to Hold Back a load that may otherwise drift or slide into their rear lags.
The most critical element of fitting a Work Harness to a horse is the Collar. Many people overlook this, mainly because not many Horses are pulled hard anymore- but you'll find people who do work their horses will agree. An ill fitted collar can cause lifelong pain and damage to a horse (look up "Sweeney"), especially when used for hard pulls or starts. Starting a Dead Weight (Modern day Pulling Contests started with Logging Teams) pull is a highly coordinated and disciplined technique that requires a Team that has pulled together a long time, can work well together and are driven by a knowledgeable Teamster. Much damage to horses and gear can occur if the Start is not well executed. For this reason, you should ask yourself how well broke the horses are and if they've worked as a Team. If they have worked as a Team and "Pulled" before, they may be okay for trials. As a warning, many "Pulling" Horse Teams may not be useful for recreational or occasional use. They are so focused on Starting that they may run away if the load is so light that they are startled with so little resistance.
I will also tell you that I have not seen any Clydes pulling hard or working in general. This may be because they are not as heavy as some other Breeds (e.g. Belgians), or because the lack the temperament. I may catch some negative feedback about that, but I've driven and worked with several Clydes- along with many Belgians, Percherons, etc., and I've yet to find a Clydesdale that I would try to "Pull" with. I'm sure there are many fine Clydes out there working, so don't take my "general" comments to apply to your Team.
If your Team has not worked together, or have not done any hard "Pulling", my advice would be to rig one or both of them with a "Running 'W'", to ensure they don't run away. I can tell you from personal experience that there are very few things (living beings, that is) you'll handle in your life that has as much destructive (to themselves, others, and surrounding property..) power as a runaway Team of Horses.
Good Luck,
Steve

[DonW]

Steve, you make it seem as if working in teams is more complicated than with a single horse. It may be obvious too, but could you lay out some of the differences?

[treemuncher]

There's a FB Woodmizer Group with a member in IN that does both machine and horse logging. If you post there he will come up. He has posted pictures of his horse setup which appears to be ag implement wheel assemblies on a small axle with horse harness hookups.
Also, there are horse loggers on the KY Certified Master Logger list. Calling afew phone numbers around areas where the Amish live in KY will get you results. Fleming Co, Nicholas, Bath are a couple that come to mind but there are many here. Anywhere below Ft Wayne, IN or Columbus, OH has lots of Amish horse users.

This would be my suggestion, too. Find any Amish community and they can point you in the direction of a quality leather shop. We have a local Amish Tack Shop here in Western TN that I have seen but I forgot which community it was in. Most of the Amish in my area have phones but no answering machines, no texts and no internet. They will advertise in the media but I'm not sure about the net.
The Amish, in my experience, are great people to deal with. Their benefit suppers are a must attend - some of the best food that I have ever had. I still scratch my head at their fine line definitions of technology that can or can not be used at times but I always enjoy visiting with them.

[olcowhand]

Steve, you make it seem as if working in teams is more complicated than with a single horse. It may be obvious too, but could you lay out some of the differences?

Don,
The following is from my experience and training as a youngster (I started working for a Horseman at the age of 11. He was born in Iowa in '02, that would be 1902- and the reins or lines of tens of thousands of horses had passed through his calloused hands). It's not meant to be a representation of any thing other than that, with some of my opinion salted in. @DoubleTreeBelgians may be able to contribute more.... 
In some ways, it's not simply a matter of it being twice as complicated. A single horse has only his own forces to deal with. No two horses will ever be exact matches in the factors that matter in pulling. For example: Size, strength, gait and/ or temperament. Size and strength are not always synonymous, as any two horses of equal height and weight may have completely different conditioning or metabolic influences. This translates to different forces they put into pulling a load; A team typically "pushes" into their collars, which transfers that force through the hames to the Tugs or Traces. These are hooked to "eveners" or "Double Trees". There is one Pivot Pin that connects to the load, and that assumes that the pulling force between the two horses are equal. If there is a heavy load to start or pull, the weaker or smaller (or less determined...) horse will be tasked with trying to keep the forces equal. In cases where the Start is hard, evenly matched horses will struggle with pulling against each other, rather than coordinating their forces in concert against the common weight. This is why I stress the need to work with the team to get them to start at the same time with the same force. Many good Pulling Horses have been "Soured" when confronted with a load that they could not get started. Logging (meaning "Dragging" Logs, not necessarily Logs loaded on Rolling Stock or Sleigh) presents this type of load.
It should be mentioned that many Draft Horse Breeders try to match offspring from the same gene pool in order to get the closest match possible. This is not just for appearance, which is important to most Breeders- but not the most critical. I've seen many mis-matched Teams that worked well together, and I'll take a Team like that every time over a perfectly matched pair of Boneheads- or two horses that can't get along.
This leaves the discussion about disposition (probably the most critical factor in a working Team...) for another time, but I hope I helped.
Steve

[kantuckid]

There's a FB Woodmizer Group with a member in IN that does both machine and horse logging. If you post there he will come up. He has posted pictures of his horse setup which appears to be ag implement wheel assemblies on a small axle with horse harness hookups.
Also, there are horse loggers on the KY Certified Master Logger list. Calling afew phone numbers around areas where the Amish live in KY will get you results. Fleming Co, Nicholas, Bath are a couple that come to mind but there are many here. Anywhere below Ft Wayne, IN or Columbus, OH has lots of Amish horse users.

This would be my suggestion, too. Find any Amish community and they can point you in the direction of a quality leather shop. We have a local Amish Tack Shop here in Western TN that I have seen but I forgot which community it was in. Most of the Amish in my area have phones but no answering machines, no texts and no internet. They will advertise in the media but I'm not sure about the net.
The Amish, in my experience, are great people to deal with. Their benefit suppers are a must attend - some of the best food that I have ever had. I still scratch my head at their fine line definitions of technology that can or can not be used at times but I always enjoy visiting with them.

The Amish vary within family/church groups or whatever they call a "group". Probably have rules beyond phone use I would suppose.  I dealt with a gutter guy and a roofing partnership last summer who are in separate groups but refer too each other for jobs since it's related work. They both use cells but limit answering directly to certain hours and work days only. Back only ten years the same family group of roofers relied on their "English" guy, the driver and his phone. On the job, the older guys love that one cell phone to death and talk on and off all day long, to the extent it's sort of comical for me, a non-Amish and non-phone lover of sorts. 
I like their directness and honesty. I disliked dealing with the one Amish guy N of me who I bought one load of ERC logs from. He was trying to foist off his junk logs on me and i told him so when I was there. He was a take it or leave type and I left it. Wasted a bunch of my time too. 
The younger teen aged ones are more open to conversations but are very un-worldly as they seem to see zero current news or events it seems. maybe a great way to go lately? Compared to my own grandkids it's like nigh and day in comparison in terms of what I'll call enlightened to society stuff. Which IMO is good when you have great parents guiding them. 
 Amish know who does what within the place they live and also the one their group came from. Most around me come from right below Ft Wayne, IN. Some here come from MO groups. 

[DonW]

Steve, you make it seem as if working in teams is more complicated than with a single horse. It may be obvious too, but could you lay out some of the differences?

Don,
The following is from my experience and training as a youngster (I started working for a Horseman at the age of 11. He was born in Iowa in '02, that would be 1902- and the reins or lines of tens of thousands of horses had passed through his calloused hands). It's not meant to be a representation of any thing other than that, with some of my opinion salted in. @DoubleTreeBelgians may be able to contribute more....
In some ways, it's not simply a matter of it being twice as complicated. A single horse has only his own forces to deal with. No two horses will ever be exact matches in the factors that matter in pulling. For example: Size, strength, gait and/ or temperament. Size and strength are not always synonymous, as any two horses of equal height and weight may have completely different conditioning or metabolic influences. This translates to different forces they put into pulling a load; A team typically "pushes" into their collars, which transfers that force through the hames to the Tugs or Traces. These are hooked to "eveners" or "Double Trees". There is one Pivot Pin that connects to the load, and that assumes that the pulling force between the two horses are equal. If there is a heavy load to start or pull, the weaker or smaller (or less determined...) horse will be tasked with trying to keep the forces equal. In cases where the Start is hard, evenly matched horses will struggle with pulling against each other, rather than coordinating their forces in concert against the common weight. This is why I stress the need to work with the team to get them to start at the same time with the same force. Many good Pulling Horses have been "Soured" when confronted with a load that they could not get started. Logging (meaning "Dragging" Logs, not necessarily Logs loaded on Rolling Stock or Sleigh) presents this type of load.
It should be mentioned that many Draft Horse Breeders try to match offspring from the same gene pool in order to get the closest match possible. This is not just for appearance, which is important to most Breeders- but not the most critical. I've seen many mis-matched Teams that worked well together, and I'll take a Team like that every time over a perfectly matched pair of Boneheads- or two horses that can't get along.
This leaves the discussion about disposition (probably the most critical factor in a working Team...) for another time, but I hope I helped.
Steve

Probably I am starting to get to know horses a bit late after a career of other aspects. Luckily it's not so with my daughter whose been with horses for 12 or so years since she was age nine. Anyway, yes your information is extreamly helpful and I'll probably temper my ambitions to a single-span for now. 

[SwampDonkey]

I always wonder what a 1 acre patch of strawberries made for cash to buy all the taxed tobacco a man could chew and smoke in a year, a 150 acre farm, kerosene, horse harness, groceries since they don't raise animals for meat/milk or have much garden. Built a house way in back out of view from the road. Well I know the answer to the strawberry revenue, since my dad grew 5 acres to sell 40 years ago and didn't smoke. These folks charge $4 and as little at $2.50 a box. So the math is easy once you know the yield (from experience). I'm not amazed by them, but of others that believe the typical narrative and what they don't have any sense about. :D

I've been around horse logging for 30 years. No, I'm not the one to ask. I was content watching family from a safe distance and that is the extend of it. :D Some of those memories that come back to ya as you age. Like uncle's team, Bud and Sailor he raised from colts, and yarded wood, pulled firewood sled, plowed, hauled hay and manure, and Christmas rides on the team bobsled. I know that bobsled is on an Amish farm in Penn someplace.

[Rhodemont]

 

 
I use one of our Canadians to haul out fire wood, no big saw logs.  About 10" is the biggest I ask him to pull, been wanting to get a skidding nose cone so he can go a bit larger.  I put some nice hay up by the barn and tell him to go home after being hitched then just walk along behind.  He does not stop until he gets to the hay. 

[mudfarmer]

 
I use one of our Canadians to haul out fire wood, no big saw logs.  About 10" is the biggest I ask him to pull, been wanting to get a skidding nose cone so he can go a bit larger.  I put some nice hay up by the barn and tell him to go home after being hitched then just walk along behind.  He does not stop until he gets to the hay.

Cool!! Cannot remember the name off hand but have a book about the Canadian horses, really neat history.