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SYP Board feet per ton.

Started by Patrick NC, February 24, 2021, 08:29:17 PM

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Patrick NC

Does anyone know how many board feet ( international) are in a ton of southern yellow pine logs. 12-20" logs. Ive searched the web and the best I can figure is about 6 tons per mbf. Does that sound close? I'm trying to figure how much I'm going to be paying per foot for a tractor trailer load. Approximately 26 tons@  $50 per ton. Thanks
Norwood HD36, Husky 372xp xtorq, 550xp mk2 , 460 rancher, Kubota l2501, Case 1845 skid steer,

WDH

Cannot speak to BF International scale, but from a true yield standpoint, the best large scale commercial SYP sawmills are getting a thousand bf for every 4 tons of logs SYP.  This is with modern curve sawing.  For my purposes, I figure about 4.5 tons of SYP per MBF green lumber on my LT40HDD35.  If you want to be conservative, 5 tons per MBF is a good round number for figuring yield. 

So, at $50/ton x 5 tons/MBF, your cost per BF of sawn lumber would be 250/MBF or 25 cents per board foot. 

I believe that 4.5 tons/MBF is more like what you can actually yield, so in that case, $50/ton x 4.5 tons/MBF would be 22.5 cents per bf. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Southside

I would second what WDH says about the 4.5 ton rule, especially if you have more 20" logs than 12" logs in that load.  Personally I LOVE buying pine by the ton.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
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White Oak Meadows

barbender

So, how does the little guy buy it by the ton? Are you guys jacking up a wheel at a time on the tractor trailers and putting a bathroom scale under them?😊
Too many irons in the fire

Ianab

Quote from: barbender on February 25, 2021, 01:15:29 AM
So, how does the little guy buy it by the ton? Are you guys jacking up a wheel at a time on the tractor trailers and putting a bathroom scale under them?😊
Locally they go over a weighbridge. or you trust the onboard scales of the trucks. 
You could scale logs and get an estimate from that, if the truck weights are seriously different then more serious questions get asked. But the trucks rely on their onboard scales to keep under the weight limits, but they get paid by the ton delivered. So they will try to be as close to a legal load as possible.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

stavebuyer

Quote from: Patrick NC on February 24, 2021, 08:29:17 PM
Does anyone know how many board feet ( international) are in a ton of southern yellow pine logs. 12-20" logs. Ive searched the web and the best I can figure is about 6 tons per mbf. Does that sound close? I'm trying to figure how much I'm going to be paying per foot for a tractor trailer load. Approximately 26 tons@  $50 per ton. Thanks
If you are talking log scale volume on INT rule your 6 tons is pretty close. The other posters addressed sawn yield. You may be trying to price a stick scaled load to be competitive to a weight scaled load. If your weight scaled truck is $1300(26x$50ton) the equivalent stick scale using the INT rule would be 26 tons/6tons per mbf =4333ft Int or $.30bf on the Int rule.

Southside

Quote from: barbender on February 25, 2021, 01:15:29 AM
So, how does the little guy buy it by the ton? Are you guys jacking up a wheel at a time on the tractor trailers and putting a bathroom scale under them?😊
I stand on the scale and pick it up. Not sure how others are doing it.  :D
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

barbender

Thank you Southside, you're picking up what I'm laying down. Ian went all serious on me😂 Our.trucks have on board air pressure gauges, you learn where you can be at on the tractor and trailer to be legal weight. They don't give you an actual weight readout, just an air pressure you have to kind of cali rate in your head. They can be finicky if you're not sitting just right, off level a bit or whatever. I don't know any mills around that would buy wood using them, they either have a weigh scale or they stick scale. I wouldn't be afraid to buy that way though, IF I was familiar with the truck and what the guages correlated to actual board footage.
Too many irons in the fire

Patrick NC

Quote from: barbender on February 25, 2021, 01:15:29 AM
So, how does the little guy buy it by the ton? Are you guys jacking up a wheel at a time on the tractor trailers and putting a bathroom scale under them?😊
See reply #6. 🤣🤣🤣
Seriously though, we are unloading at my friend's mill and he has scales. Thanks everyone for your input. This is my first time buying logs by the ton and I wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting. 
I have to haul them all home (about 10 miles) on my 7 ton deckover trailer so I have to figure in that cost too. I think I can still come out pretty good. 
I've bought cedar by the tractor trailer load before but it was by the bf. 
Norwood HD36, Husky 372xp xtorq, 550xp mk2 , 460 rancher, Kubota l2501, Case 1845 skid steer,

ellmoe

All logs are sold by the ton here. The drivers will usually have an empty ( tare ) weight average and they will weigh the load at a truck scale and bring that ticket to you. Caution , while rare , there are some that will cheat on the weight , usually on the tare weight. Depending on the type of trailer and size of tractor ,tare weights here are normally 26,000 (Pole trailer ) to 29,500 .
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

WDH

Here is an accurate way to calculate the weight of a SYP log.  I am using lob-LLoly pine in this example.  This method will get you to within 1 to 2% of the actual weight because I have done this calculation on logs that had been weighted too.

1).  Measure the length of the log in feet to the nearest tenth of an inch.

2).  Measure the inside bark diameter of the midpoint of the log.  OK, this is difficult to do practically unless you saw the log in half.  Another way to do it, not as good, but good enough, is to measure the inside bark diameter on the large end of the log and the small end of the log and average the two to approximate the mid-log diameter.

3).  Take the mid-log diameter inside the bark and square it.  Multiply this by .005454.  This is the square feet of area of the circle at the mid-log point.  Multiply this by the length of the log.  This is the cubic foot volume of the log.  Multiply the cubic foot volume by 60 pounds per cubic foot for lob-LLoly pine.  If it is shortleaf pine use use 58 pounds.  If slash pine use 65 pounds.  If longleaf pine use 62 pounds.

So, as an example, if the mid-log diameter inside bark is estimated to be 18", and the log length is 16.5 feet, then:

18 x 18=324.     324 x .005454=1.77     1.77 x 16.5 feet=29.16 cubic feet.      29.6 x 60 pounds/cuft=1749.4 pounds or .87 tons.  This method is amazing accurate.  You can use this method to estimate the weight of most any species of log if you know the pounds/cubic foot conversion factor for that species. 

If I buy a few logs and go pick them up on with my trailer, I can calculate the log weight to within a % or two.

One note.  This method is for logs that still have the bark on.  If much of the bark has been worn or rubbed off in logging, etc, the log will weigh less than this method calculates because the conversion factor is for the weight of the wood plus bark per cubic foot of solid wood.  You can adjust the weight down a bit if much of the bark has been removed. 


Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Wudman

Quote from: WDH on February 25, 2021, 08:06:44 AM
2).  Measure the inside bark diameter of the midpoint of the log.  OK, this is difficult to do practically unless you saw the log in half.  Another way to do it, not as good, but good enough, is to measure the inside bark diameter on the large end of the log and the small end of the log and average the two to approximate the mid-log diameter.


If anybody wants to go this route, you can get a set of calipers to measure mid-stem diameter.  I sold a bunch of export logs on Huber Scale and it required a mid-stem diameter.  Just sent my 4 sets of metric calipers to another yard working on export.  I'm glad that venture is over.   :-\
Wudman
"You may tear down statues and burn buildings but you can't kill the spirit of patriots and when they've had enough this madness will end."
Charlie Daniels
July 4, 2020 (2 days before his death)

barbender

Gosh Danny, that sounds like voodoo or somethin'😁
Too many irons in the fire

Trackerbuddy

Buying by the ton and selling by the foot.  Better get your guzzintas right.
A ton of 6" logs weighs 2000 pounds. But there aren't too many board in a 6"log

moodnacreek

Everything up here is stick scaled except firewood.  I would agree with the above answers because I used to get hemlock logs at a quarry that had a scale. A 12 ton load would saw about 2000 bd. ft. of lumber.

WDH

Inside bark diameter at mid-log is very difficult to practically measure.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

jmouton

you are really good at math wdh
lt-40 wide ,,bobcat,sterling tandem flatbed log truck,10 ton trailer, stihl 075,041,029,066,and a 2017 f-350,oh and an edger

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