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Sold timber and contract expired

Started by CSmeltz, March 05, 2021, 01:52:44 PM

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CSmeltz

I am a property owner in Michigan, last July we had a forester sell a section of our woods, about 20,000 bd ft. We signed a contract with a buyer at the end of July/beginning of August with a end date of March 1st. I received my deposit right away and then didn't hear from him until around Thanksgiving when he paid in full and then the logging started around Christmas. The logger and I were not able to contact the buyer and my yard has been a beyond full staging area for two months. The idea was to take out logs as they were being cut because of a tight staging area, I was told less than a week.

Well March 1st has came and went and I just heard from the buyer today,  he wants to come out next week to start bucking and hauling. My biggest issue is the soft ground, the plan was to haul while the ground was frozen but we just had 16" of snow melt this week and looking at 3" of rain soon. The trucks will have to use my asphalt drive and swing through the yard. Really not happy about this,  especially because the contract has ended.


What should I do? Just extend the contract and let him do his thing? Charge a late fee, what is a reasonable fee? Make him wait a couple months for the ground to dry up (clay soil turns to concrete come summer)?  Tell him tough luck and sell the timber again?


Southside

Well the world has turned upside down over the past 12 months and in so many cases folks have had to deal with the unexpected many times.  He paid you in full and we are 4 days past an arbitrary date on a piece of paper.  

If you tell him to stick it I sure would not want to be in your shoes if you slide off the road, get a flat, or need some other form of help one day and he drives by.  

Talk to him, express your concerns about ground conditions, maybe they can bring in some mats to load from, avoid the driveway, drop a load of gravel for another access point.  You asked for advice, mine is to find a way to make it work for everyone.  
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nativewolf

I would echo southsides suggestion.  To me the key points are they paid in full and the harvest was done in a timely manner.  Could be that there was simply no trucking to be had, that was the case on our project for months.  We were lucky to get a truck a day and needed 2.  So now march rolls around and I should have had dozens more trailers off the property by now.  Not so great, nothing anyone could do to make a truck appear.  

Definitely talk to them.   
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mike_belben

If i were in your shoes and worried about asphalt id tell them they can use the driveway with a $2000 or so refundable security deposit.  That way they chew it up and run atleast you got some funds toward repair.  If they dont wreck it you can give it back
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stavebuyer

Sometimes the law has some odd twists; one being "time is of the essence clause"  which if not included can turn a firm date into a suggestion. Timber is often considered real property until it is severed. Sounds like the logs belong to whoever bought them. Document the current conditions and allow the log owner access to remove his logs after they sign a written access agreement that dictates that they will restore the area to equal or better condition upon completion. Having them put up a reasonable bond also would be good business.

CSmeltz

I had no intention of telling the buyer to get lost, I understand it's been a weird year and I am willing to work with peoples situations. I have never dealt with something like this,  but in my line of work a contract and how you perceive it means everything. It's been nearly 4 months since I've heard from him and we tried to contact him, a simple call back would have been plenty.

The contract reads "the purchaser agrees to cut and remove the timber in strict accordance with the following conditions"
The first one reads "unless an extension of time is agreed upon in writing, all timber shall be paid for, cut, and removed from the property on or before March 1st, any material not removed becomes property of the seller."

It also says "Logging shall occur when the ground is frozen or dry". Up until this week we had very deep frozen ground.



Like I said I am a very understanding person and not one to cross somebody, but I do feel the contract is pretty clear and at less than one page it's not full of lawyer talk. I don't intend on telling him to leave, but I feel a late fee is reasonable I just have no idea how much.

Unfortunately the ashpalt drive is the only access to the property. We are surrounded by a creek on two sides and the neighbors property is not an option. They understandably don't want to load on the road because it is a state highway.

I plan to call him back this evening, I just wanted to get some opinions from people in that line of work. Unfortunately the logger didn't stage where we talked about, I wouldn't have cared how long it sat then but now it is very inconvenient. 

Autocar

I would say No because of the wet ground and give him a extension on the contract, but get it in writing so everyone understands. I always told land owners you own the ground and all the trees that are not marked so don't let anyone tell you I have to get them today and make a mess for you to try and clean up. They shouldn't be in business if they don't have the cash to let timber stand till the weather is fit.
Bill

Haleiwa

It's not an easy fix, but one possibility would be to buck by hand and carry the logs out a few at a time to the hard road using a small loader with a grapple.  It will take longer, but shouldn't tear things up too much. That's assuming your driveway is solid.
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chevytaHOE5674

You say "state highway" which to me means class A road and no load restrictions. Which if the case means the buyer knew that it would be accessible when other places weren't. 

If they are coming with a normal Michigan truck that asphalt drive will be no more.

barbender

There's no way I would let him on that asphalt driveway without them putting up a bond for replacing it first, and also money for fixing up the landing area they are more than likely going to destroy. They really should've communicated with you, it would've went a long way towards preventing misunderstandings. I'm no judge or lawyer, but it sounds like you're sitting in a good legal position. Maybe they had trucking issues or something, don't mean to sound line a jerk but that's their problem- none of it should end up costing you money. 
Too many irons in the fire

Walnut Beast

Hopefully you will work it out. Since they are already cut down I'm sure he has some legal rights. If you shut him down from getting them he might put a lean against your place and when you get lawyers involved it's good to cost some money 💰 

moodnacreek

I feel your pain. At least you are dealing with someone you can talk to.  When a gov't contractor plows up your property and has already taken care of the right people about the only thing you can do is shoot him.

Walnut Beast

I understand you don't want damage to your driveway but that is the same access he had previously when he was in and out of there. Better work with him and tell him your concerns or things might get ugly

chevytaHOE5674

Frozen ground that asphalt drive wouldn't show a mark of heavy traffic on it. Now with the warm temps and the frost leaving the ground if you put a heavy truck on it you will see it crumble before your eyes.

There is a reason all the county roads have load restrictions on them as the road won't support a loaded truck with the frost bubbling up out of the ground. Your driveway isn't built to road specs so it won't be pretty.

Firewoodjoe

There right about the drive. But if u talk to him then try and figure it out realistically for the two of you. Let's just say you have all the right. What are you going to to do with the logs surrounding your house? I doubt any local mill will want to touch it considering the situation. Those logs are worth more than your driveway to him and he could take precautions to save your drive. Even with the thawing ground. And I'd hope him being a business man is realistic also. 

mike_belben

If he hasnt responded in another week, send him a link to a craigslist ad of his technically forfeited logs for sale, and say call me with pickup arrangements before i accept a bid.  


Your contract is too simple for him to hide under a rock and pretend he hasnt got wood all over your lawn to move.  Hopefully he is alive and healthy. 
Praise The Lord

Firewoodjoe

Also I doubt that drive would hold up to a Michigan log truck under excellent conditions with out precautions. 

Stephen Alford

   For what its worth here with our clay soils to achieve frozen ground requires 8/10 hours of -5/10 degrees c.    Ground conditions can be tested by driving your boot heel into sodded ground. Generally a pretty good indicator. With the sun were it is 2/3hrs will end it.
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chevytaHOE5674

If your ground freezes solid like it does UP here I would have had no trouble putting up a bond for the driveway and wouldn't worry about damaging it even with a 200k lbs truck. We hauled a lot off wood on driveways like that with the ground frozen from the surface to 50 inches deep. Add some snow pack on top and its even better.

This time of year I wouldn't want a guy hauling off my blacktop with a pickup and gooseneck let alone a loaded up log truck. Heck UP here the ground is thawing on top and the lowboy I had in my drive last week at 80k lbs broke the edges off the fancy Class A blacktop that is supposedly built to handle 200k lbs year around. Lol

Joe Hillmann

Public roads are probably a lot heavier duty than your driveway but right now they have weight bans on because a few trips with a lodged semi could destroy them.  I would tell the buyer to wait until the ground has firmed up before letting him drive on your driveway.

CSmeltz

I contacted the forester today to discuss this and he is going to call the buyer. He is going to see if they can use a loader to carry logs to the road.
My ashpalt is actually 12" thick, the previous owners just kept layering it,  howrver its not very wide and it curves. I drive a long bed crew cab dually and barely fit around the curve without hanging off the drive. I also have some equipment, including a 35,000 pound JLG that has been up and down my drive many times but it does break off the edges when i go into the yard. I am not concerned about the staging area, it is already tore up from me and I can fix that. I can't however repave 400 feet of asphalt.

We are on a class A state road, but for some reason by our house it is not considered class A and has a weight restriction on it. The buyer was on the property and talked with me about options before he paid me. I was 100% ok with his plan and our contract.


He is an Amish guy and first time timber buyer. I believe he is splitting the timber with another guy that normally does this and he was unaware of the contract language.

Walnut Beast

Good deal. Sounds like things should work ok. Nothing wrong to watch out for you and your property. Might just want to get some pictures of your driveway now that way if any substantial amount of damage is done you have before and after photos

BargeMonkey

 How does someone go this long without communication ? That much wood laying there i don't get it. Here in NY just as an example to put a commercial curb cut in onto a state road you have to put up 3x the cost of the cut in a bond, no questions asked. They paid you for the wood but someone dropped the ball. Around here and I dont care who doesn't like my opinion, the straw hats DO NOT have good reputation in a circumstance like this, you get a bond or a bag of money, they get that wood off your job and wreck your driveway whats the lawyer going to do ? 🤷‍♂️ I would make sure the FORESTER is the one you deal with first, thats what hes paid for in the sale, shouldnt be your fight. 

chevytaHOE5674

No doubt the only way they would touch that driveway this time of year is with a large bond covering the cost of replacement. Once the drive is destroyed and the wood is gone you are SOL.


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