what to do with 30" dbh osage orange/bodark tree? actually 40" with Pic!

[hackberry jake]

A friend of mine says he has a 30" dbh bodark he want rid of. Says its 30' to Tue first branch... doesn't sound like any I've ever seen. What would you do with it?

[campy]

Mill it and dry it outside.


Osage is Wood with a vengeance.
Some qualities of Osage.
1) Lasts 100 years buried in the ground
2) Strongest wood in north America
3) Replacement for metal
4) Grows fast and is sustainable
5) Pretty color and grain
6) Best wood for archery bows
7) Can be used around food like for rolling pins, cutting boards and spoons.
8) Heavy and dense
9) Sawdust can be used as yellow dye
10) Fruit is edible and good for lawn bowling
11) Good for perimeter security. Troops in the Civil War had to maneuver around Bowdock groves because the are so impenetrable.
12) No need to dry it is stable and will not shrink
13) Although not native to Illinois does grow in the state. Presidents Roosevelt is most likely the one responsible for the tree being there as it was one of the trees of choice used in his ambitious WPA project "Great Plains Shelterbelt." The project used the trees size and density to act as a windbreak, the goal being to modify weather to prevent soil erosion in the Midwest. In all approximately 220 million trees of different species were planted in all.
14) It produces fire works when burned.
15) John Swain made a boat called the Sultana out of Osage
http://www.lnsart.com/sultana_project.htm 

[timbuck2]

Believe it or not, I quarter sawed some orange osage way up here in Northern NH.   all about 6-10 in dia. short logs.  A guy brought them from  Missouri or someplace, and he made long bows out of them.   About 2 years later I was cleaning out the sawdust pile and there was a brilliant orange stripe in it.

[WDH]

Wow, sounds like a one of a kind osage orange tree.  With a tree like that, the bow makers would be a good market, but I believe that they rive out rather than saw out the bows.  You could do a little research on the Internet about osage bows and how to cut the staves.

[hackberry jake]

I have a pretty good idea of what CAN be done with it. I'm asking what would YOU do with it? I'm leaning towards personal stash, but its getting rather large already.

[T Welsh]

Mill it!!! look into the market and see whats sells for the most? 4/4 or bigger or bow blanks.I  would look into the bow makers blanks, I have heard there is money there, but I have no dealings with it. or get what ever you can get out of it when you open it up. straight grained stuff goes to bow blanks, the rest goes into furniture wood. I cut a couple of logs for slabs for a cabinet maker for benches and it turned out a strong yellowish type of color with blackish stains between growth rings. hard as rock,bring plenty of sharp blades and use lube. it stinks too!!! Tim

[timbuck2]

No they don't saw out bows, the 1/4 sawn slices were stock for the bow making process.   Some of them went for upwards of $1k,   specialty market hit me square between the eyes over 20 yrs ago.

[WDH]

I would saw the best grade as rift and quartersawn 8/4.  I would saw the lower quality in 4/4 at maximum width.  Then, I would market and sell 80% and keep 20% for projects.  I sold some 8/4 to a martial arts weapons maker in Seattle, WA.  He saw my ad on Craigslist.  He makes fighting sticks out of it. 

[zopi]

From what I have been told the best bow staves are riven..not sawn...but yeah...about eight feet of that would make bows...personal stash otherwise...buthen...I am kind of a packrat whenit comes to wood.

[WDH]

I believe that 8/4 provides enough size to rive out the bow if the grain is reasonably straight.

[Kcwoodbutcher]

At 30" the tree probably has large split in the middle.  I just got some logs close to that size and every one was split.  We have a lot of osage around here and that is very common. It's not that there isn't a lot of god lumber in the logs, it's just a little harder to get.  I have sold it for bows, turning blanks, cutting boards, and flooring.

[5quarter]

   Could also be a Red Mulberry. They are related to hedge apple and look very similar. A tree the size you describe is not unusual for a mulberry, almost unheardof with hedge apple. The really big ones I have seen were wider than they were tall. no more than 4 or 5 ft of trunk. If you go get it and it is a hedge apple, slab 5 or 6 at 10/4 or 12/4 and as wide as your saw will make. cut the rest 4/4 and put it to sleep for the winter at the bottom of one of your stacks.

[swamper]

BoisD'arc is a pretty wood.  I just used some for knife handles.  It is also a strong and tough wood.  The sawdust is the color of high quality mustard when it is sawn.  It turns dark as it ages.  An old fella that just passed away gave me some that he cut fifty years ago, just a few days later, he died suddenly.  The aged wood was very dark and had a beautiful grain and color to it.  It does make sparks come from your chain saw when you cut it.

[Tree Feller]

I have personally seen one Bois d' Arc tree that was straight and limbless for the first 20 ft. It was about 16" DBH. The landowner said I could have it but I never harvested the tree before he sold his farm and moved to a smaller place. I still regret not getting that tree.

I would do like WBH suggested, riftsaw/QS the best grade and flatsaw everything else 4/4. I'd keep it for myself, however, as I like working with Bois d' Arc. I made one of those Hal Taylor rocking chairs out of Bois d' Arc (like the Walnut one I showed here) and sold it for $3500 to a fellow in Louisiana. The 8/4 kiln-dried lumber cost me $11 per bf from a sawmill.

Just be aware that Bois d' Arc will not retain that bright yellow color. It will turn golden brown from oxidation and UV exposure. Eventually (around 100 years) it will turn dark brown/black.

[Al_Smith]

I've only seen several that size but the were not suitable for lumber .However at one time in addition to uses already  mentioned they used it for planking on equipment trailers .It was tough enough to withstand tracked equipment such as a dozer or track hoe without tearing up .Tougher than oak and that's saying something .I have no idea if it's still used these days or not .

[Klicker]

Having made a number Of bows I would go for bow staves. PM me and I will send you a link to some bow sites that make bows Rod

[5quarter]

As an aside, there is plenty of bow material on the market...not so much regarding clear, wide dimension lumber.Oh, and like mulberry, hedge apple has visible rays. if you can get a few perfectly qsawn boards, they shimmer in the right light.
Tree feller, sorry for your loss. An offer like that and I would have shown up the next morning with several sharp chains and lots of oil and gas! :D

[hackberry jake]

Just talked to the man that's giving me the tree, he doesn't want any money from it but he wants enough 16' 6/4 to redeck his trailer... what a waste. He's also giving me a small walnut and small pecan to boot tho.

[WDH]

Cut his trailer decking out of the worst grade in the tree as it is just going to be a floor for equipment to sit on  ;D.

[jueston]

or make his trailer decking out of white oak and tell him you don't know why the color seems wrong..... and keep all that awesome wood for yourself....  :

[Ironwood]

You need to give him an education is all. Offer him some "extra" other stuff and explain the use of THIS wood as trailer decking (esp. at that length) will consum ALOT of good wood for other things. Offer options with good supporting info and facts. I would offer white oak with surface treatment (fungicide) from a local mill who can do that (I have some locust 6x6's here I did this to). This would last indefinitely. Look better (less checking cracking, and degrade) and last as long.

Ironwood

[hackberry jake]

I went and looked at the 30" bodark today... well it wasn't 30" it is 40". That is one massive bodark. It stays over 40" all the way up to the first crotch about 14' up. I talked him out of trailer decking. I told him I would buy him treated pine for his trailer and he said he was happy with that. Pictures to come tomorrow.

[CalebL]

I went and looked at the 30" bodark today... well it wasn't 30" it is 40". That is one massive bodark. It stays over 40" all the way up to the first crotch about 14' up. I talked him out of trailer decking. I told him I would buy him treated pine for his trailer and he said he was happy with that. Pictures to come tomorrow.

Hell, I would cut him some white oak for his trailer decking for that bad boy. 

[Ironwood]

Good for you. I find most people can be reasoned with if they have any sense at all. If not I RUN!!!

Ironwood

[5quarter]

40" diameter!! Jimminy Christmas thats huge! Jake, Do not touch that tree unless one of your hands is holding a working camera with good batteries. fingers crossed that there is no rot. take pictures of the standing tree as well as felling and loading. you're very fortunate.

[limbrat]

Across the river from Natchitoches in the river bottom there is a old church with a hugh osage in frront of it. Across the side walk fron the tree there is a stump that is much larger than the standing tree. while i was looking at some of the other trees on the property i ended up behind the church and down the slope where they had been tossing trash toward the bayou. I uncovered a lump and it was a knot of a osage that had wood split off the sides of it there were dozens of lumps on that slope. I could help but think they took that hugh osage and busted it into firewood. Oh well whats a country boy gona do with a big hardwood that he need to get out of the church yard. There aint a lot of them around here but in that  river bottom there are a few very big ones.

[hackberry jake]

Here is a pic of the tree up towards the crotch. The place I measured the circumfrence was 8'6" up the tree. I measured 127" which is about 40" diameter. The tree is already down, it fell over. If the tree had not of fallen over, he wouldn't have wanted it gone. My mill only handles 30" diameter, so I'm in the process of deciding what to do with it. Either take it to a local mill with a circle saw and run-around resaw, or take it to a guy with a lucas and a slabber attachment. The only thing I could find for scale was a plastic spoon. If you look close you can see it on the bark.

[Coon]

Looks like a baby spoon to me.  ;)  ;)   :D  That is one heck of a nice tree.  Dit you find any rot?  Why did the tree go over? Wind?  Roots let go?  I have quite a few huge spruce that are blown over due to the wet peaty soils and wind. 

[hackberry jake]

My guess would be wet soil and wind, I don't know if it has any rot yet, been too busy on work, school, and dozer rebuild to get to it yet. Any swingers with slabber attachments or bandsaws that will handle 40" logs wanna help on this one? It's in the northwest Arkansas area.

[logboy]

If you were St. Paul, MN I'd come over with my Lucas and mill it into lumber or slabs. I was excited until I saw Arkansas, not Minnesota. But hey, if you want to truck it up I'll mill it.  :D

[jueston]

If you were St. Paul, MN I'd come over with my Lucas and mill it into lumber or slabs. I was excited until I saw Arkansas, not Minnesota. But hey, if you want to truck it up I'll mill it.  :D

i thought he was in mn when i read his location too....

[hackberry jake]

I'm taking my chainsaw over there tomorrow to buck it... any guesses on how old it is?

[WDH]

Not as old as you might think, I bet.  I'll guess at 75 years old.

[SPIKER]

I think they tend to grow rather quickly to about 12~16" dia then slow way down in rate of wood added to the tree.   one that size maybe closer to 90~110 yrs old as a rough guess.   around here they were used a lot as fence rows and for making cow pasture fence lines as the wood is hard  quick to grow to a point to keep cows in...
mark

[5quarter]

Jake,   Quarter it with a chainsaw and make as many 16"-20" 6/4 and 8/4 boards as you can get. Alot of work (don't ask how I know) but worth it.

[hackberry jake]

I got the brush cleared from around it, here's a better pic.

[Marc Thornton]

Looks like youneed a bigger bar on your saw.   

What kind of tree is that under it, or is it a branch turned funny.

[hackberry jake]

It's a 20" bar, definitely needed a bigger one, but I got through it. It's a branch that broke off when the tree hit the ground. Does anyone know if bodark has attractive figure in the crotches?

[WDH]

Oh yes, it sure does.  That is a grand prize of a tree.  Simply stunning.  I can't wait until you saw up that beauty.

[hackberry jake]

If I were to saw up a few pieces into gunstock blanks, is there a place to send them and get back gun stocks? Would bodark be ok to use as gunstocks?

[WDH]

I don't know about gunstocks, but a couple of wide 8/4 slabs would be nice.  How many people do you know that have a bodark table?

(I know the good book says not to covet your neighbor and all that, but I really covet that osage orange tree........ ).

[CalebL]

If I were to saw up a few pieces into gunstock blanks, is there a place to send them and get back gun stocks? Would bodark be ok to use as gunstocks?

I know of two guys that will pay good money for a bunch of it cut into 8/4.  One guy makes marking gauges and the other duck calls.  If you are interested in selling any of it let me know, I will put you in touch with them.

[Celeriac]

Would bodark be ok to use as gunstocks?

A quick look at wood density indicates Osage is about 43% heavier than Black Walnut ,59 lbs/ft³ vs 41 lbs/ft³. Maybe not the best bet for a gun that you're going to carry far afield. I have not made a stock, but I expect Osage would be considerably more time consuming to work.

 

[hackberry jake]

I'm going call a guy tomorrow about slabbing the largest log on his slabber mill. It will probably be pricy. I would like to have a 40" wide live edge bodark table though.  >:( ;D

[nlrwrangler]

who has a slabbing mill around here.  Can you give me his info.  I have a 40-50in burr oak I need broken down and also have about 8 other logs that are too big for my mill.

[hackberry jake]

His name is Andy, his business is called 2nd Life wood. It's just on the outskirts of fayetteville. His number is xxxxxxxxx. The man can make some amazing tables!

[5quarter]

   Jake, the crotch is first runner up. The grand prize is still partway in the ground. dig that jewel out and you will have something really special. Also, if you want a nice hedge apple tabletop, use 2 bookmatched 20" boards. If it were mine (and I wish it was  ;)) I would have  the crotch slabbed and saw the main log myself.

Chet

[Jeff]

His name is Andy, his business is called 2nd Life wood. It's just on the outskirts of fayetteville. His number is XXXXXXXXXXX. The man can make some amazing tables!

Please, never post another person's personal information on a public forum. It can open you up to all kind's of unforeseen liabilities.  That has always been a rule here on the Forestry Forum.   You can always share the number to someone via a private message or email, but never out for public consumption for who knows who or what to harvest.

[hackberry jake]

Sorry bout that, I thought about it but I figured since it was a business it was ok.

[hackberry jake]

Bad day... started the day by trying to load the dozer on the trailer. Steel tracks on steel ramps = no traction. So we pulled the truck and trailer on a downhill slope. We didn't have the common sense to scotch the tires on the trailer so when the dozer got on the back of the trailer, the truck and trailer slid down the hill, jack-knifed and hit a tree throwing the dozer off of the trailer. I jumped off just before the accident happened (thank you lord). In the process it threw a track off the dozer and the rest of today has been spent trying to get the track back on. I'm beginning to think these prize logs don't want to be gotten... wasted day and lesson learned I guess. All you FFers please remember to scotch the trailer before loading anything. It could've been a lot worse.

[Celeriac]

Wow, glad to hear that no one got hurt! Crawlers and trailers make a dangerous combination.  Too many people get hurt or killed when loading and unloading dozers.

It might be a good idea to get some belting or some such, so you can get a grip on the ramps!

[zopi]

Owtch. Did you remember to stand up and throw your arms in the air and shout taaadaaa?

Yeah, I am a sicko...had a tie in slip on me the other day and fell against my secondary line...and did just that...homeowner was a little freaked out until I explained what happened, but my helper was rolling laughing at me...any landing you walk away from...blah blah...
Glad you are ok!

[jueston]

in iraq i was in a convoy and the truck in front of me had a D5 on it, the driver liked to brag about being able to go through the serpentines on the roads faster than anyone else, well he did make it through, and then I saw one chain brake as the D5 tipped up on one side, and then 2 chains brake as it tipped back and then the whole thing slid off the side of the trailer, the last chain actually held the back of the dozer on the trailer while blade dragged on the road.... It destroyed one whole track and sprocket and part of the blade... and the road had a nice new grove in it for about 35 feet.
I was so sure the dozer was going to pull the tractor over onto its side I was almost hanging out the side of my truck getting ready to climb on it to help the driver out, but everything turned out fine...
So we used another dozer to push it back up on the trailer and put someone a little more.... Reserved... in the driver seat. And then we continued on...

[Ironwood]

Glad your OK. Thanks for sharing, stories like this will help others "keep a weather eye out for safety" as we say t oour young boys. Pass that bit of learning on to others you know. Perhaps it will save someone else the grief or perhaps their life.



My father took a "ride" on his tractor whilest loading. Same deal, trailer down in back, truck UP, and then coasted down a drive across the road and into a ditch, truck trailer and tractor. Lucky he wasnt killed on the road let alone the ditch. I always think of his story when loading my equipment. Makes you kinda like to have those little ramp "feet" that flip down with the ramp. preventing raising of the truck tires.

 

Ironwood

[beenthere]

A former member, Mark M, was killed when he had a similar incident while loading a large log on the back of a trailer. When the log he was winching on the trailer raised the hitch on his Suburban, it lost its braking power and started sliding off down the street. Mark M was caught under the trailer somehow and was killed.
He was another great loss to the FF. He too didn't chock the trailer tires, nor put blocks under the rear of the trailer to hold it up.
Glad you are OK and able to tell us the story.

[paul case]

Ya gotta be careful more careful.
I have had the same trouble with loading a dozer on a steel dovetail trailer. A couple boards just throwed down on the ramp made it grip and not spin or slip.
Glad you are ok. I hope everything else is repairable.  PC

[Al_Smith]

Old conveyer belting bolted to the deck and ramps makes a nice traction improver .Steel on steel has the friction coeficient of wet ice --none .

[hackberry jake]

Here's the newest progress, It's dropped off at the slabber. Still have a 5' stump section that we dug out of the ground as well. Thats a lot of big bodark/osage orange.

[5quarter]

Jake... Make sure you're there with your camera when he cuts it. Have him leave the top and bottom slabs thick (8-10") and take those home and stand them up on your saw and cut some lumber from them. they'll all be rift and quartersawn and clear. Can't believe you got the stump too!  8) 8)  you won't be disappointed!

[leroy in kansas]

There is a gunstock maker in Nevada, MO. if you want to pm me I'll give you the ph #. and info.

[hackberry jake]

Got the stump log split in half and cut on the mill. Here is a pic of the second half squared up. More pics to come once I get more time and service.

[5quarter]

Excellent! what are the dimensions of the cant in the picture? I can't recall...how many  sawlogs did you get from the tree? Do you have a photo of the root ball?

[hackberry jake]

This is the closest pic I have of the root ball. The first half is on the mill and the second half is in the background. Here is a pic of the grain I was expecting grain that wasnt so strait from the stump. The second half looked more interesting though, I'll have pics of the second half sawn once I finish it up. I got about three good logs over 25" from the tree. One 7' stump log, one 11' butt log, and one 5' second log. I will also get a bunch of lumber out of the limbs and other bodark trees he wants rid of. The cant is roughly 16x16.

[hackberry jake]

  Over 3' wide and 11' long bodark/osage orange milled up and ready to sticker in the shed. Sure gunna be some heavy tables!

[Dodgy Loner]

I'm envious of your lumber, but very happy that I'm not the one who has to move all that lumber :D

[WDH]

Wow!  What a log.  Heavy is right.

[JD350Cmark]

Jake,  Glad to hear you are ok..  What kind of dozer do you pull with that set up?

[davidv]

I know this is an older thread but that is a nice log! It looks like you could have split some nice bow staves out of it, and that's a pretty good market. Average osage staves sell for around 50 dollars but that tree has some thick rings that are very desirable. http://www.missouritrading.com/bowlist.htm Making bowstaves is really easy. You just have to split the log with wedges untill you get 4 or for inch wide pieces and you seal the ends with shellac. Sealing must be done immediately though because checking ruins the stave.

You can make bows out of sawn lumber too. The bow in my picture is made out of a red oak 1x2 I got from Lowes.

[hackberry jake]

Thanks, only about 3 more years til it's dry enough to use. Some of the flitches had splits down the middle. I think when I build a house I am going to use them for countertops. Might take the largest one and repair it with butterflies of maple and use it for an island in the kitchen. Dreams

[davidv]

I think Bo'dark would make a beautiful table, good luck.