Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures

[Ljohnsaw]

I'd love an adjustable height table!

OK, how about this.  Make a frame (10' long? - Uni-strut would be pretty good here) and set the middle of it on the left end of the table.  Make that a pivot point.  With it tipped up(down?), you have a ramp that you pull the log up.  If not too heavy, stand the log up on end and flop it onto the frame.  Strap the log on temporarily.  Then, set an angle that works best for sawing down hill (or go all the way flat), attaching a brace from the high end down to the other legs.  You might have to drop in a cross piece to keep the log from sliding down.

[ManjiSann]

After a LOT of thought and dreaming I decided to make the basic table. I figure if I keep this up then maybe next year I'll build a nicer/bigger one but for now this should (hopefully) allow me to work with what I likely will get. A 10' table with all the trimmings would be nice but since I can physically only move 4' logs, it seems waste. Beside if I built the bigger one then I'd want to build the stuff so i could haul logs worthy of it  :D  It's a slippery slope. Anyhow, enough of my odd thought process, here's some pics

The table square was part of the welding table I was building and decided not to finish so that saved me a bunch of time this go around. Cut some legs 24" tall. I figure this will mean a 24" dia log plus 3" for the ladder thickness will have me just a hair over 4' off the ground which for my height is comfortable. 



I'd love to tell you it came out perfectly level and square.. well none of y'all are here so I'll lie and tell you it came out perfectly square  ;) ;)  Nothing a shim or two won't fix or if it REALLY starts to bug me I can weld some leveler feet on it.

I spaced the ribs a bit off the bottom and ensured they were super accurate with my very precise and expensive pine leveling stick 



I will need to round the corners a bit so I don't gouge myself but all in all it worked out well. I'm curious to see how my welds hold up. I'm not a welder, I just stick metal together and hope it holds.

I did an adjustable log dog thingler. I'm tired of wedging wood under the log and hoping it'll hold. I also have some pieces that are split into quarters already so I'm hoping with the log dog set up I can safely saw them into nice lumber. Hopefully this table will allow me to safely do stuff I couldn't before  8)



I still have some finishing to do but all in all I'm really happy with how it all went together and curious to see how it works. I have some metal left over I can add or make a few changes once I use it and see what works and what doesn't. 

It was also fun as a friend called up while I was doing this and asked if I could repair a part for him that he needed welded. It was cool to already have everything out so when he came over we put a couple welds on it and away he went  ;D

Brandon

[Nebraska]

Looks good Brandon .   You can make an extension for the table easily enough when the time comes. I'm waiting for the free old bicycle log arch to appear.

[thecfarm]

Build things to make things easier for you. That is what I do.

[ManjiSann]

Looks good Brandon .   You can make an extension for the table easily enough when the time comes. I'm waiting for the free old bicycle log arch to appear.

Thanks  I'm still pondering the log arch thing. My only problem with using bicycle tires, free or otherwise, is how much weight can they hold?  I think anything I build needs to be at a minimum 500lb rated, preferably closer to 1000lbs. With that much weight I'm concerned the bike tires would collapse or gouge into the ground a lot. 
I'm sure I'll build an arch or some sort of dolly, just not sure when. Until I do, I still have a whack of logs I can mill  8) 8)
Brandon 

[Ljohnsaw]

I think anything I build needs to be at a minimum 500lb rated, preferably closer to 1000lbs. With that much weight I'm concerned the bike tires would collapse or gouge into the ground a lot.

I've EASILY had 500 pounds on mine - probably close to 800.  What does a green 8x12x14' pine weigh?  At 1,000 pounds, you probably would have some difficulty physically moving it.  If you are worried about ruts, use wheelbarrow tires for a lower ground psi with the fat tires.

[ManjiSann]

I think anything I build needs to be at a minimum 500lb rated, preferably closer to 1000lbs. With that much weight I'm concerned the bike tires would collapse or gouge into the ground a lot.

I've EASILY had 500 pounds on mine - probably close to 800.  What does a green 8x12x14' pine weigh?  At 1,000 pounds, you probably would have some difficulty physically moving it.  If you are worried about ruts, use wheelbarrow tires for a lower ground psi with the fat tires.

Oky doky! I'll start watching the local ads for some free bikes   
I agree about the difficulty moving it at 1000 lbs but I prefer to over build and have me be the limiting factor. 
Brandon 

[Old Greenhorn]

Het Brandon, I think I found a weight calculator for you when I was poking around last night. It's called "log Weight" and it just gives weight for a given length and diameter. It has a lot of species in there with the densities listed. I think it may be doing a straight volume calc and not figuring taper so you may have to mess around with picking SED, LED, or average diameter. It's very quick and simple, no recording, just gives you the weight. For BF and all the other goodies I still recommend SawLogClac.
 Keep cuttin'!
Tom

[Hilltop366]

Maybe you can find one of those fat tire bikes for extra flotation.

[doc henderson]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMnjF1O4eH0

[Hilltop366]

 :D When I saw it was Queen I thought for sure it was going to be

Queen: Bicycle Race (I Want to Ride My Bicycle) - YouTube

[ManjiSann]

Het Brandon, I think I found a weight calculator for you when I was poking around last night. It's called "log Weight" and it just gives weight for a given length and diameter. It has a lot of species in there with the densities listed. I think it may be doing a straight volume calc and not figuring taper so you may have to mess around with picking SED, LED, or average diameter. It's very quick and simple, no recording, just gives you the weight. For BF and all the other goodies I still recommend SawLogClac.
Keep cuttin'!
Tom

OG, thanks for the info! 
I think I'll give the SawLogCalc app a look. I don't need the extra bells and whistles right now but for $2.99 if I buy the full thing it's a very reasonable price. For now I just wanted to know weights as we are using brute strength to move these logs and it's fun for bragging rights to say we moved a log that weighed xxx lbs  ;D  I am interested in the densities part though as at some point I need to figure out how to use my moisture meter a bit more accurately.
Brandon

[ManjiSann]

I had planned to do a bit more welding yesterday so this Wednesday I could try out the bench and mill a log or two. However, I found another log I could pick up. Ad said it was maple so I was excited... turned out to be more Siberian Elm which is awesome as well. Hopefully I can get some variety going forward but when you are looking for free stuff you can't be super choosy.

Home owner said the tree had been dropped about 3 months ago so I was wondering if the wood had deteriorated, not knowing how this stuff works. Figured it would be a good educational experience no matter how it went. 

Homeowner said it was a 16" dia by 24' long... turned out to be 20" dia at the base and over 24' long. Cut it into 4 6' long logs and loaded into two trucks



My friend and his son were kind enough to come help, couldn't have done it without them!

My poor truck didn't fair quite so well, the tail gate is a bit more rainbow shaped than flat... note to self, remove tailgate before loading logs in the future.

We were fortunate enough to be able to back right up to the logs which was super helpful.

When we got home another neighbor was kind enough to help us unload them.

I'd say I have enough logs for now but who would I be fooling  ;)  I'm sure I'll keep an eye out for more but for now I need to get these milled and drying. Also need to figure out where to store the wood once it's dried.

The major head scratcher I have at the moment is how am I going to load them on the bench. I think a ramp is a good idea but I only have a comealong and will hopefully have a couple cant hooks soon. For those of you who don't use a tractor or hydraulic loader to get logs on your mill decks, how are you doing it?

Brandon 

[ManjiSann]

Thanks to member Furby for the PM with suggestions on how to load the table!


One other question, is Elm saw dust ok to use on plants? Would like to give some to my neighbor for his raspberry bush and want to make sure it's not toxic like black walnut.

Brandon 

[SawyerTed]

Brandon, to lift your logs a chain hoist or come along on a tripod would be inexpensive enough.  The tripod if designed right could fold way for storage.

Raise the log, put your table under the log then lower into place. 

A tripod could also assist in loading logs on your truck.  Again if done correctly it should easily be portable.

[Hilltop366]

They don't make tailgates like they use too. I know the tail gate on the 95 dodge work truck weighs considerably more than the one on the 03 ford which weighs considerably more than the one on the 13 GMC my brother has.

That said a piece of stiff angle fastened across the top edge of the tail gate really helps to reinforce it.

[thecfarm]

Log weight?
What about the one we have?
Extras, the one that starts out with Home Help, than Tool Box, than log weight.

[doc henderson]

get some pipe to lay on the bed of your truck to roll logs forward.  could make a saw horse (wood or metal) to act as a pendulum to keep the weight off the edge of the bed or tail gait.  if you think in terms of pounds per square inch.  the thousand pound round log contacts about a square inch of surface as you rock it over onto the tail gait and or bed.  so 1,000 pounds/square inch.  a wheeled skid steer is about 22 pound per square inch and a tracked loader is about 4.  a 200 pound guy with feet/shoes 4 x 10 inches is about 5 pounds per square inch standing on one foot, and half that on both feet.  we loaded heavy blue spruce logs from camp into my truck but removed the tail gait and had 8 guys helping.  a sheet of osb could also help protect your bed.  i took my dad some dirt in 55 gallon barrels for low spots in his yard.  i rocked them on edge to roll them back, and nearly collapse the inner panel of my tail gait.  if you put a hand on a bed rail to jump out of the truck bed to the ground (I do not do this anymore)  you have to be careful not to bend the upper flat part.  Look @Magicman they do not make them like hey used to!   ;) 8)

[donbj]

if you put a hand on a bed rail to jump out of the truck bed to the ground (I do not do this anymore)  you have to be careful not to bend the upper flat part.

Vehicles now a days if you scrape some paint off a body panel you will see the budweiser logo underneath the paint, that's how thin they are. You're very right have to be careful where you lean on or push.

[ManjiSann]

It snowed yesterday, only a few inches so I won't complain as I know some of y'all to the east have it much worse



If you look to the right of the whack of logs you can see the basic solar kiln I'm assembling. I tried to give it a bit of an overhang to keep the rain and snow out but it looks like I didn't do it far enough out. I'll have to remedy that but I'm not super worried as I don't think one snow storm will destroy the wood. 

I'm going to try parbuckling the logs onto the bench. I have a 5' or so aluminum motorcycle ramp I can use that has chains so I can attach it to the bench so it hopefully won't try to escape. I have a heavy duty 2" tie down strap I can use to do the pulling. I'm hoping with the longish ramp and the shortish height of the bench and physics that I only vaguely understand, I can pull it up the ramp with just my body  8)  I'll take pics and report back  ;D


My little pickup is a 94 Chev S-10 so it's not quite a pop can. I'm not surprised the tailgate rainbowed as it did, that was a lot of weight on a very small area. To be fair I think the in bed weight rating is only 500lbs or so... I won't admit to exceeding that many times... oh wait you guys have seen photographic proof that I have ;)  My point is that the truck has held up to far more than the manufacturers intended so I have no complaints. If I can get the tailgate straightened out a bit I like Hilltop366's idea of a bit of angle iron reinforcement. Or I may weld up a different tail gate for it. The current one is hard to open so if I can't figure out how to straighten it and fix the latch I'll just make a new one. Stay tuned for that adventure   :D

I've been doing a lot of reading on log cutting techniques, how the log is cut to get certain boards type of stuff. Up until now I've not paid much attention to pith location or heartwood to sapwood ratios but I think going forward I really want to start being more deliberate in what I'm doing. I may not be cutting veneer quality logs but part of the purpose of this adventure for me is to get fine lumber. So with that in mind a couple questions for you more seasoned sawyers. 

1. Is it acceptable to keep the pith in a board and if so does it need to be completely enclosed in the board? For example can I have a couple full width 4/4 boards that have part of the pith on the surface middle or is that just asking for cupping and or weakness issues?

2. Heartwood to Sapwood. I seem to remember reading that it's preferable to not have heartwood and sapwood in the same board but if you do you want it to be a fairly even ratio, is this correct? Is the orientation of the sapwood/heartwood boundary important?

I realize with CSM I'm a bit more limited with what I can do that a bandmill, though the table should increase my options a bit.

Any advise, rules of thumb, best practices etc that you can give me to think about as I'm milling would be much appreciated! I've read a few of the gov's publications on milling boards and how to improve quality but I think they assume I have a bit more basic knowledge than I do. They don't address the pith question or the heartwood/sapwood question. If you know of any good writeups on the subject please post the link and I'm happy to read/print and include in my ever growing binder on the subject

Also, is Elm sawdust ok to put on plant beds?

Thanks again all,

Brandon 

[doc henderson]

the pith is centered to hide the hole that goes through the log that is the center of the tree.  if you cut a thin board, the pith will peak in and out as you cut.  hard to center in a 4/4 board.  it will likely break in half along that pith.  most would just cut it out.  those boards would by definition be quarter sawn as well.  most wood does not shrink much in length but the exception is the juvenile wood just around the pith.  think the first 10 or 15 years of the tree.  I have not heard that elm is bad for plants.  It smells bad, so I would not want to eat asparagus the also was dressed with elm chips... WOW that would stink!!!     smiley_smelly_skunk smiley_airfreshener :D 8) 8) 8)

[ManjiSann]

Haha Doc, stinky in stinky out :D


Ok I figured that the pith wasn't the best part but wanted to verify that before I started cutting it out

Brandon 

[Nebraska]

The elm saw dust should be fine for about anything you want to use it for in the way of mulch or bedding.  The wood  on either side of the pith is good stuff  that whack of logs there will keep you busy for a while.

[Hilltop366]

I'm sure you will but I will remind to please be careful parbuckling logs or any other way you get them on your bench. Keep people away from the direction of any potentially runaway logs on the ramp or over running the top and falling on the other side.

Also watch out for when the log is nearing the top of the ramps that the ramps or the bench does not kick out or collapse, if the ramps were connected at the top and bottom of the table forming a triangle it would help from the table and ramps connection becoming a hinge.

[thecfarm]

Tail gate smile is easy. Step son 4 wheeler almost fell out of the back of his truck,tail gate smiley it was. Came to me, and wanted it straight. He took it off and put it on the ground and I laid a 2x4 across it and handed him a sledge hammer. He asked what is this for? To hit the 2x4 with. A couple good hits and it was straight and would even latch and stayed closed. What more could someone ask for.  ;D