100AC Tract of land with some timber what to do with it?

sawmillhand · September 10, 2012, 07:38:56 PM

I bought a 100 ac tract in north mississippi . it has already been thinned once already. It has SYP and some hardwood on it . I am needing some advice from some of you experts. Would i need to wait a while and cut the rest or go ahead and clear cut now and replant,and if i do clear cut and replant how long till the first thinning. In 15 yrs the land will be paid for if not sooner just needing a little advice and a direction to head with this. Thanks all

Okrafarmer · September 10, 2012, 07:58:42 PM

Not trying to pick on you, but I'm not sure I would have bought 100 acres of land without having some kind of a plan for it. . . .

Are you planning to build on it and live there-- keep it as an investment-- clear it for farmland-- use it as a hunting property?

Maybe you do have those kind of plans, and just haven't told us. ;) But if we knew what you have in mind for that, it will help the foresters and the rest of us chime in more intelligently as to how to manage the timber.

Also, I don't think you told us how big the current pines and other timber are. Shooting from the hip, I would say that if they aren't saw log size yet, and they are growing in a healthy manner (they have been thinned, after all), that my instinct would be to leave them at least until they will produce saw logs. After all, the timber market is way down right now and we can hope it will improve within 5-10 years, meanwhile we can also hope that a great number of your trees will pass from pulpwood to saw timber trees in that time, increasing their value.

But what do I know, I'm not a forester. :-\

Ron Scott · September 10, 2012, 08:09:16 PM

Decide what your long term management objectives are for the property and have a professional forester walk and look at the property with you and advise you accordingly on the best management practices to meet your objerctives in a timely manner.

sawmillhand · September 10, 2012, 08:09:52 PM

Okra its ok i bought the land mainly for a future investment, i got the land at a really great deal and its right across the road from where i grew up. I have thought about building on it one day. The pines are 16 to 20 inches roughly and the hardwood is around 24 plus. The reason i thought about just clear cutting now is to start fresh and make sure its planted fully and not have spots here and there thats not planted. I hope i make sense there ;D. I dont know alot about pulpwood sizes and saw timbers could you explain the different sizes for them or have a website i could read up on. thanks alot for the input.

Okrafarmer · September 10, 2012, 08:24:20 PM

Ah-- your trees are saw timber size, which means you could have a substantially profitable sale if you did choose to clearcut (or selective cut) them now.

Now that we know the size of your timber and more of your thoughts on it, we have more to go on.

Ron's advice is good, once you know what you want for your property in the long term, you would do well to contact a forester who can help you come up with a plan. Don't hesitate to contact several foresters until you come up with one you like and trust, you should ask for references, and/or ask around the community for foresters with a good reputation. Some are better than others. The one that will work best for you will be one who consistently puts your needs, desires, concerns, and best interests first and foremost.

sawmillhand · September 10, 2012, 08:28:01 PM

sounds like a good plan to me thanks for the advice guys thats why i like this forum.

shelbycharger400 · September 10, 2012, 08:51:42 PM

trees that size, draw your self a floor plan for a nice house. determine how much wood your going to need. If you have place to store the lumber, cut it all out then sell the rest off. Not shure what you have if you have any for a mill. Just might be time to take a look at one. Investment in even a used mill, will pay for itself if you have decent saw logs at your disposal.
Buying lumber is expensive, you will have some expense with blades , and fuel, but when you figure it out , your time is cheap compared to a 30 year loan paying 3 to 4 times the value of your house if you buy one built.
My 3 year construction of my homebuilt mill, first running this year in april, and a nother used motor(blew first one) has just about broke even now , thats just doing hobby sawing.

thecfarm · September 10, 2012, 09:09:37 PM

I myself have 150 acres to play on and I would hate to see it all cut off at once. My cutting is differant,because I need firewood. If I did not know about cutting wood I would ask someone that does know, a forester. But everyone has thier own idea about what their woodlot should look like too. I've been told more than once that I am too fussy with my woods. :

WDH · September 10, 2012, 09:24:28 PM

You need a timber inventory that shows the volume of timber by size and by pine and hardwood before you can make any decisions. A Forester will be a good investment in your long term management of this property.

Ianab · September 10, 2012, 09:34:02 PM

Problem with clear cutting and replanting is that you will probably not get another harvest off the land in your lifetime. It just takes that long for a forest to regenerate from scratch. It's going to look like a disaster area for the first few years, and maybe 20 years before it starts looking like a forest with real trees again. Even longer before and are big enough to harvest. In this part of the world we can harvest trees on a 20-40 year rotation, I believe in most of the US it would be more like 40-80 years to harvest?

If you intend to live there I would look for a mixed age management plan. This may involve small clear cuts of areas of mature trees, or selectively cutting mature trees, and leaving the healthy future crop trees. Thinning and removing unwanted species from other areas etc. Sure you will have various open clearings around the properly for a few years until they regenerate, but this is great for wildlife. Those are the sort of things that a local forester can advice you on. He will know your local species and how best to manage them for long term gain.

It certainly sounds like you have trees there that are harvestable, whether this is a good time to do it (low log prices) depends on your situation. Maybe it would be possible to harvest some trees, and use the $$ to help pay off the land sooner? But a selective harvest should leave you set up for another harvest in 10-15 years time as the trees continue to mature. Maybe this will fit in with your plans to build a house there in the future?

There can be valid reasons for doing a clear cut and basically starting again, but it's a long term project. If you have a healthy forest now, it's probably better to try and maintain that with wise selective harvesting, especially if you want to live there in the near future.

Ian

Okrafarmer · September 10, 2012, 10:01:56 PM

Somebody who lives there, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think where he lives, it would be less than 40 years to mature pines? I've cut mature pines here in my area (in the woods, not someone's yard) that were 36 years old and 18 inches plus in diameter. His latitude would not be far off from mine. Especially with proper management, I'm pretty sure the pines would be less than a 40 year turnaround. Certain hardwoods, such as tulip poplar, are also fast growers.

By no means am I saying that he should definitely clear cut it, just saying I think he lives in one of the faster-growth areas of the US. Anything he plants, he may see it grow to a certain maturity in his lifetime.

Of course, I don't know how old he is! ;D I was kind of assuming he was about my age, give or take 5 years, but I don't have much to go on. ;)

WDH · September 10, 2012, 10:07:01 PM

Most of the timber companies in that area are targeting loblolly pine on a rotation of about 28 years with two intermediate thinnings.

Okrafarmer · September 10, 2012, 10:08:27 PM

That's more like what I was thinking. As usual, WHD has the info on file whereas I have it on backorder. :D

Ianab · September 10, 2012, 11:11:53 PM

I see he is in one of the more Southern States, so yes the growing season is longer, and hence tree rotations are shorter.

Still going to look like a tornado struck for a few years though...

Ian

Okrafarmer · September 10, 2012, 11:22:31 PM

Quote from: Ianab on September 10, 2012, 11:11:53 PM
I see he is in one of the more Southern States, so yes the growing season is longer, and hence tree rotations are shorter.

Still going to look like a tornado struck for a few years though...

Ian

Yes, unless he gets a gentle logger. If he gets with a forester, and they decide on a staggered harvest plan of some kind, they will be able to manage the slash and it won't be too bad. He may decide he wants to clearcut part of it, and selective cut the rest. It sounds like those pines are reaching maturity and could start to die before too long, although the ones I saw around Magic Man's house looked like they grew to 24" plus without too much trouble. I did see a few broken off from the recent storm, though. In Northern MS he probably has more to worry about from tornadoes than from tropical storms and hurricanes. I'm not sure how long the loblollies normally go before they start dying off naturally. He may have time enough left on them to implement a long-term selective cut strategy without having to take the bulk of them down right away.

sawmillhand · September 11, 2012, 12:08:14 AM

Yeah i was thinking more about section clearcut if anything. i am only 30 so i was hoping to get some kind of return from it. Heck if not my kids will be setup :D. i will try to post a picture of the land from a aerial view so that way you can see what i have. I know a forester i can trust so ill give him a call when i get home and walk the land over and see what he says. I know when i lived in louisiana they would get a first thinning around 13 , 14 yrs but they have paper mills and chip mills around there so.

Ianab · September 11, 2012, 03:02:15 AM

Well if you have trees near to harvest size now, then it makes sense to harvest them in the near future. Use the $$ to help pay for the land or house. Then replanting those areas for a harvest in another 30 years or so. Be your retirement money with any luck. ;)

Pine really do need to be clearcut to regrow properly, if they are just selectively removed you tend to get other more shade tolerant species taking over. But you probably don't want to clear cut the whole place, although that's what would be done here. But then pine forestry here is more like growing corn than traditional forest management.

Anyway, that's what the forester can advise you on.
"This section over here is mature and ready to harvest. Leaving them longer wont increase the value much"
"These over here are still growing strong, leave them another 10 years"

Also, tap his knowledge about WHY he's suggesting things. Professional advise is good, but so is learning more about how to manage your own land. You might not get a degree in forestry, but it doesn't mean you can't get more educated about what is going on.

Ian

terry f · September 11, 2012, 03:07:13 AM

Looks like a nice piece of property. I don't know much about hardwoods, but it looks like a great start.

Claybraker · September 11, 2012, 08:16:41 AM

I'm not a forester, so I apologize for talking out of turn here.

If it was mine, I'd start with an inventory. A forester can help with the timber side of things, but for a thorough job, you need to schedule a walk through with a good pointer. Might even need to go over it more than once during the season.

Cord-n-8R · September 18, 2012, 10:25:10 PM

Forgive me, but what is this 'pointer' you speak of?

Jeff · September 18, 2012, 10:43:02 PM

My guess is a bird dog. ;)

Claybraker · September 19, 2012, 05:01:24 AM

My bad. Pointer is a generic term to denote upland bird dogs. No offense intended to any upland breeds.

The picture looks birdy, and any proper inventory should include a survey of existing wildlife, with special emphasis on the tastier species. I suppose you could use a forester for that, but they are real bad to bust a covey.