building lumber in the northeast?

wheelinguy · February 20, 2012, 08:37:53 PM

Which of the evergreen trees that grow in the northeast, more specifically vt, are best suited for the structural aspect of building 2x's etc...? Hemlock, spruce, white pine, balsam are all pretty readily available around here of course we have a ton of white pine which i have heard is undesirable for building.

Peter Drouin · February 20, 2012, 08:44:50 PM

All are fine its the grade that counts .straight grain and small red nots. hope this helps, good luck

bandmiller2 · February 20, 2012, 08:50:32 PM

Probibly spruce and hemlock are the pick of the litter,but there are many old buildings framed with white pine that are still standing. Frank C.

Rooster · February 20, 2012, 09:01:33 PM

Timber-framers like White Pine for beams...they just need to know where to find you.

Rooster
(Wisconsin Timber-framer)

Ianab · February 20, 2012, 10:03:18 PM

Main issue with White Pine is that its' pretty soft and wont stand up well in high wear situations, like flooring.

For construction use, any of them will be fine. Look at the quality of the logs, and hence the lumber you are sawing from them. More important than the actual species. A clear straight grain white pine board will be better than anything else that has a big ugly knot in the middle.

Ian

Chuck White · February 20, 2012, 10:32:40 PM

Don't know why anyone would say White Pine wouldn't be desirable for construction.
Lots of people around here build with WP.

The stronger ones you listed would be the better choice for framing, that being Spruce and Hemlock.

wheelinguy · February 21, 2012, 06:08:43 AM

Thanks guys. My brother has an old chase mill that he bought fom a neighbor when his father passed away. We have been trying to learn how to use the mill. We are starting to get a good handle on it. The neighbor, who grew up using the mill, told us that white pine was undesirable for framing lumber so that is where my earlier comment was based. We cut down 4 white pines at the neighbors house and it was enough to almost fill a log truck! Now he wants to trade the logs for a new bed for his truck, that is why earlier I had posted the question about the price of white pine by the board foot. If we can mill 2x's from these rather than just board and batten siding I think their value to us has gone up, we will be putting up another building next tto the mill.

SwampDonkey · February 21, 2012, 06:35:44 AM

Up here spruce is king, all the stud mills and lumber mills want spruce. They buy fir to, but your price drops. None of the sawmills buy hemlock, it's left to stand or rot on landings or sold for pulp, very low price. Pine is used in log homes, finish, trim, doors and such. I've never seen a house or barn around here made from pine. Old buildings are often made from hemlock, but back then the quality of hemlock was better than today's hemlock. Too much ring shake in our hemlock.

thecfarm · February 21, 2012, 07:28:43 AM

Just watch out for the knots in white pine. If concerned can saw bigger too. Don't be afraid of that hemlock either, that would be my first choice. My hemlock is old,I have some up to probably 100 years old. Those big dead limbs are a dead give away that it has some shake it it.I've got some younger ones and had very little problems with shake.

Axe Handle Hound · February 21, 2012, 08:39:57 AM

My dad's house from the early 1900's has 20+ foot pine 2X in the walls and it's standing strong.

Chuck White · February 21, 2012, 11:32:06 AM

It's kind of like making due with what you have!

Around this area there is a lot of White Pine!

GAB · February 21, 2012, 02:14:24 PM

A lot of builders will specify SPF for studding and they will use the least expensive one to maximize their profits. SPF means Spruce, Pine, or Fir.
Instead of 2x6 if you are sawing your own material you can saw 2.5or 3x6. I sawed 2.5x6 for my sugarhouse rafters, and 1.25" for the board and batten.
Around here white pine with grub holes in it is referred to as bullet pine, and if it is also blue then it is denim bullet pine.

SwampDonkey · February 21, 2012, 05:18:37 PM

The pine in SPF is hard pine like red pine and jack pine, not white pine. Around here mostly jack pine. There are mills up here specific to white pine alone.

woodmills1 · February 21, 2012, 07:00:24 PM

did I hear you say the 2x is worth more than the board and batten?

2x 4 and 6 at 8 and 10 foot lengths are way cheaper ina box store than I can make them

1x is almost always over a buck with some locals at maybe 80 or 90 cents

I can do better on 2x 8 and up or longer lengths

back to subject use any of the mentioned woods for 2x but as said it is the grain and knots that matter

REGULAR GUY · February 22, 2012, 01:19:25 AM

Thecfarm, You mentioned "big dead limbs are give away of shake". What is "shake"? A fella can learn so much from reading Ya'll. I wish I paid this kinda attention in school.....then again I'd still be makein sawdust!!!! Thanks Regular Guy

SwampDonkey · February 22, 2012, 04:58:05 AM

Around here, it's the sap suckers the help cause the ring shake. I don't have any faith in dead limbs as indicator unless they died for no apparent reason. Could have died from adelgid or looper. The sapsucker have hemlock radar and hammer it full of bird peck for decades. I'd like to see one hemlock they haven't pecked the daylights out of.

eastberkshirecustoms · February 22, 2012, 05:10:45 AM

Regular guy, shake is when the grain is peeling apart in layers like flaking skin (for lack of better analogy) I'm sure someone has a photo example or a better description. ;)

I know you guys are stating that you can't saw 2x stuff for the price of the big box stores, but for your own use, would it still not be worth it for the quality? I find it more and more difficult to buy quality 2x lumber- knots, twist, warp, bow, uneven size, and even just chewed up. I really dread going to the box stores to dig through piles to find a few good sticks. >:(

SwampDonkey · February 22, 2012, 05:19:32 AM

There are a lot of stores that sell lumber like it was top grade and when you look at the stamp it ain't, so I point this out and demand a lower price or leave. ;D I'd suggest look at the grade stamp. ;) And a lot of outfits leave it wrapped and out in the weather, so the wrap becomes a magnet for water and the lumber is sopping wet. Avoid those outfits to.

wheelinguy · February 22, 2012, 06:40:32 AM

We have a ton of hemlock on our property, some that are probably 7' or more around the base tall and straight. These all seem to be untouched by any woodpeckers but just s stones throw away a smaller hemlock will be platered with small holes and another will have holes big enough for critters to live in!

thecfarm · February 22, 2012, 08:38:06 AM

Regularguy,you can also find shake in the Forestry Forum Dictionary. Go up to Extras,where Home,Help,Search is,click on to Extras, a drop down list will appear,click onto FF Dictionary and that will take you to it. Just click onto whatever letter you want and you can find just about anything there. Edit ....I went to the FF Dictionary and all I could find was Wind Shake.
Most of my hemlock looks good,the kinda small ones,but I have alot that are over 2-2½ feet across. The bigger ones are old and have bid dead limbs on them and have been prone to shake more than the smaller younger ones at my place.
Here's a picture of extreme shake. this is the worst I've ever seen at my place.Not really a good example either. Most shake will follow the growth rings. May come apart in an inch or 2 of layers following the curve of the tree or rings.I cut alot of dead hemlock for firewood and have had the heart come right out of a split piece. It will be nice and round.

The straight line down the middle is a chainsaw mark. Too big for pulp,28 inches I think,so it had to be split. Can't remember for sure but probably 6-8 feet up the log was fine.
The grain will seperate and will still be curved when it falls apart.

REGULAR GUY · February 22, 2012, 12:48:19 PM

Eastberkshirecustoms and Thecfarm, a big Thanks and "gotcha". I seen it before but didn't know what it was called. I'll go to the Forest Forum Dictionary (if I can steer this computer in the rite direction) , I can't do nothing but learn, and this Forum is a great way to do it. Regular Guy

eastberkshirecustoms · February 22, 2012, 03:33:35 PM

Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 22, 2012, 05:19:32 AM
There are a lot of stores that sell lumber like it was top grade and when you look at the stamp it ain't, so I point this out and demand a lower price or leave. ;D I'd suggest look at the grade stamp. ;) And a lot of outfits leave it wrapped and out in the weather, so the wrap becomes a magnet for water and the lumber is sopping wet. Avoid those outfits to.

The box stores around here (no names mentioned) carry #2 'Select'. I know what you're saying about the wetness. I went to one the other day and swear the lumber had been soaking in the river for a month. I left without any lumber.