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Buying a tractor

Started by Mesquite cutter, July 06, 2021, 06:28:26 PM

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711ac

Quote from: Danmcc on July 07, 2021, 02:57:45 PM
I bought a Kioti 5010 in February, so far I've liked it. Good lifting capacity, though I've maxed it several times with big logs.
If someone, regardless of size ever said they never "maxed" their tractor...they're lying 😆

btulloh

Quote from: 711ac on July 07, 2021, 07:05:17 PM
Quote from: Danmcc on July 07, 2021, 02:57:45 PM
I bought a Kioti 5010 in February, so far I've liked it. Good lifting capacity, though I've maxed it several times with big logs.
If someone, regardless of size ever said they never "maxed" their tractor...they're lying 😆
Ain't that the absolute truth!
HM126

Mesquite cutter

Quote from: wisconsitom on July 07, 2021, 12:02:00 PM
I sure like my Bobcat.  It's a re-badged Kioti, although as far as I can tell, there is no Kioti that is identical to my CT 2025 Bobcat.  Mine is a lighter machine than you're after, but I believe the quality would hold thru the full range.  Good stuff.....I had a deal all drawn up for an equivalent Kubota, but when I checked out the Bobcat, it was quickly apparent that I would be getting every bit as much tractor, but for right around $4000 less.
How long have you had it?
Backyard woodworker. 
DIY sawmill
Youtube:  Retired DIY Guy

Lostinmn

We went though this process in spring and ended up with a brand new LS MT357 as it ticked off all our check boxes, a 58 hp hydrostatic with cab and most of the bells and whistles.  I mostly echo what other have said regarding you are not just buying a tractor you are getting a partner as a dealer for good or bad.  We looked at several brands including the local JD, but to be honest any one of them was such a huge leap forward and new improvement over all our much older other tractors, it really came to who do we trust to work with.  Our local implement dealer has been in the area for years and has always provided great service on a wide range of equipment and older tractors. As they have carried the LS brand for quite a few years, it really was a no brainer for us.   As a bonus, our favorite color is blue  8)

Happy shopping!

chevytaHOE5674

In the compact and sub compact game their is a lot of rebadging going on. 

LS, New Holland, And Case are all the same. 

Many of the JD models are Yanmars underneith.

Bobcat and Kioti are the same. Etc

My experience as a wrench turner is they are all about the same. Good and bad to each. Pick one with a decent dealer and one that has the best features and specs in its size class. For the most part I don't see many of them in the shop unless the operators are hard on them. 

I will say Mahindra parts can be hard to come by, and kubotas engineering department often has cranial-rectal-inversion.

Kodiakmac

A couple of months ago I got rid of my old 440 JD skidder and bought a new Kioti 73 hp tractor.  

I have McCormick, John Deere, Kubota, NH, and Case IH dealers within a 30 minute drive, but I decided to go with Kioti because the brothers who own the dealership are straight-up good guys and they are only a 5 minute drive away.

It also helped that a friend bought a slightly smaller model a few years ago and was able to give me an unbiased report about his tractor and dealer experiences.  

Having said that, if the dealerships would have had good reputations (and a few of them did) I think I would have been quite happy with similar hp tractors from any of the aforementioned companies.
Robin Hood had it just about right:  as long as a man has family, friends, deer and beer...he needs very little government!
Kioti rx7320, Wallenstein fx110 winch, Echo CS510, Stihl MS362cm, Stihl 051AV, Wallenstein wx980  Mark 8:36

wisconsitom

Hi Mesquite.  It's at just 66 hrs.  I suppose I don't know much about longevity yet.

One thing I like a lot, and this is probably true of most makes, is the ease of maintenance.  Simple stuff like fluid changes are quite easy, and even stuff like re-cambering the front wheels or readjusting the engine's valves are all laid out nicely.

Worst thing is cold-weather starts.  Like many small diesels, it sputters and coughs out lots of smoke under such conditions.  I hope to have a block heater on it by coming winter, which I think will help a lot.  Warm-weather starts are non-problematic.
Ask me about hybrid larch!

thecfarm

I put a piece of carpet over my tractor with the block heater on. Keeps the heat in better. I suppose a moving blanket from harbor freight would work too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

BargeMonkey

 I just went thru this with a landowner, im not biased but we own nothing but BLUE tractors and have sold 10+ BLUE tractors for the dealer to our customers 😆. 
 Figure out what you want, add 10hp. Even if you dont need it, get it with a skidsteer coupler and 2 remotes, adding on after the fact is costly. We run ag tires on our 4 tractors, R4 tires are ok but not meant for greasy ground. Like everyone else has said dealer support is key. 

North to Alaska

I bought a Branson 4520r last year. 
First , if there are no decent Branson dealers near you, then ignore this post.

Branson tractors have NO computers. They are well built (Korean), simple, heavier then others in the class, and much cheaper to buy.
The tier 4 emissions consist of a simple cat style device that burns the particulates as you go. Just have to keep it hot enough. If you you don't like it, you can remove it and stick a muffler on and the tractor won't care.

Do wish I had gotten a hydro though.
Branson 4520r tractor
Krpan 3.5 winch
MTL grapple
Dr 22k splitter
Stihl MS 261 CM

kantuckid

For by far more information brand wise, model wise, number of posters, etc., go to www.Tractorbynet.com. 

In recent years I've owned two Kiotis, a DK40 and now a DK35SE, both shuttle/geared tractors. They are robust, well built machines. They mfg. their own engines-Daedong brand-same as Bobcat mentioned already. Bobcat I though got out of tractors?
 
My DK35SE is a 2010 so no Tier 4 re-gen on it. I had very few issues with them. Much is generic on several brands of tractors. Items like clutch assemblies and much much more cross over brand names far more than many realize. Also within brands there are multiple mfg of the machines plus engines, loaders, etc.. My Kioti FEL is made in USA. 
 
 Mines been dead now for over two months-seems to be a gears issue as starts OK, hyd OK but no motion F or R. First place I took it the son fell out with his Dad the shop owner so I moved it to a semi-retired pro tractor guy who did JD's all his life now a widower he syas it's near to being next. Parts are a hard issue for tractors of many brands and he couldn't block those waiting on parts to take mine down. FWIW, I am a retired mechanic but my shops blocked entryway due to lumber drying said haul it somewhere else. 
In ~ 2-4 weeks I'll either have it back repaired or buy another tractor. I'm leaning toward a used late model Massey-Ferguson or a Mahindra. Not many Kiotis in the used market but I'd buy one again. 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Dom

I also agree dealer is key, and competition amongst dealers can be a good thing.
Over here its Kubota and John Deere.


Resale does play a factor in my opinion, and in our area reselling a Kubota or John Deere is quicker than the other brands. We don't buy with a plan to resell, but its always good to know that the item you have is in good demand. 

As Barge mentioned, buy it as you need it and plan on expansion. Add the extra hydraulics, the tires you need/want etc, right from the purchase. So much easier than trying to do it all after the fact. 

Bruno of NH

I had a Mahindra 4550 cab tractor. If you like brakes that work buy something else
Other than that and a spoon for a bucket it was nice.
My next tractor will be a Branson heavy built , great engines , fit and finish. 
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

kantuckid

Branson's are not a brand I've looked at lately and not far back they were very minor in the market. I just now skimmed their website and they have attractive machines. Niche brand same as my Kioti though both are huge corporations on a worldly basis. They are basically a TYM tractor-same as several other brands tractor models, that sell more tractors.
 I'm uncertain how they stack up overall against Kioti & other Korean brands-as I've owned several but they don't use re-gen which I'd rather avoid. 
Their system is a DPF version and likely not problematic. 
Choosing a Branson means you should also look at other TYM built tractors?
 Little doubt in my mind that casual tractor discussions still revolve around the old brand names that once were USA, UK etc. and now it's all Asian across the lines with assembly in various places. Selling a machine thats off-brand still slows it down due to ignorance of todays marketplace. Those mainline brands are having the same parts issues as the lesser brands right now. 
 Owning an orange Kioti I've been telling people for 20 years it's not a Kubota nor is it made in Japan. 
I'm just not willing to pay a 6% sales tax premium plus new markup price points.
 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

John Mc

I'm curious when folks refer to different tractor brands which are manufactured by the same source.

The implication sometimes is that they are the same tractor, just different trim or color. I know that this is the case in some instances (Case and New Holland, for example have some tractors that are virtually identical other than color  and perhaps some options).

I also know that being made by the same manufacturer is not necessarily and indication that things are the same quality. 20 years ago, as the manufacturing plants I was working for was closing down, I took a part time/seasonal job in an outdoor store (which shall remain unnamed) mainly to get access to their employee discounts. The store manager was often telling customers that the store brand outerwear was made in the same manufacturing plant as North Face (NF made very highly regarded products). The implication was that the quality was the same, you just weren't paying for the name brand. The store brand was decent, but the quality was not even in the same ballpark as North Face.

It does make me wonder about different tractor brands "made by the same manufacturer". How often is it just a different coat of paint or slightly different body panels, and how much of it is a completely different tractor which may just happen to share a few components with another brand?
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Hilltop366

I bought a new 24hp Montana tractor to resell at a auction once after they went out of business, it was made by Kukje same as Branson. The only difference was the brand name decals, you could even see a faint outline where the Branson name decal was removed before the Montana one was put on.


kantuckid

TractorData.com - information on all makes and models of tractors is one source I use to size up a brand and model and the FEL or other common attachments. Many modern tractors share engines across brands. FEL's are often made in the USA and sized and labeled/painted for a certain tractor mfg.. I am far short of all knowing on the subject but even the major brands we identify with are mostly Asian, esp. in compact and utility sized tractors. Even those in that business probably find it hard to keep up with who is assembling what, using what components. All wheeled vehicles depend on parts mfg.'s to make much of what gets to a factory for brand name products. 
I've told this story before but it is probably still relevant to some degree: I was once part of a tech school educators group touring a Japanese mfg.s KY plant building electrical parts such as starter solenoids and similar. It was a modern plant with robotics and most employees were typical semi-skilled assembly workers. The mgr was local and sort of confided to us (he was a former local educator himself) that Lee Iaccoca (famous former leader of Chrysler some years ago) had sent down a decree that all Japanese origin stickers were to be removed from parts sent to them for use in assemblies they built and sent to Chryslers factories as he was a made in the USA freak.
 The worldwide source aspect is the still true part and much more in fact but the stickers part is probably limited to the back when mentality that the USA was the source for most everything. My state of KY and many other rural states have become "parts just in time" sources for various manufacturers. Ford plastic grills often come from Morehead, KY near me and many many more e.g.'s out there. 
My somewhat obscure branded tractor-Kioti is actually a source for many colors and brands over the years since they began in 1947. 
Google: Daedong Industrial WIKI and you'll see a chart that goes on a very long ways showing many brands, several engine mfg.s and so on. Kioti tractors are assembled in Wendell, NC using Titan tires, USA built loaders and probably wheels and other parts to the main chassis. Auxillary parts on my tractor like electrical can be an Interstate battery, a starter same brand as this others, so on. 
Many Mahindra loaders are built in  Sterling, KS by KMW-I think my Kioti FEL came from there too? 
Branson tractors get some discussion online but don't even have an info page on Tractordata or Tractorbynet at all.
I almost bought Mahindra last go around-talked to a dealer near me who had been with them the entire time in US market and still was. Talked to another long time dealer in TN or NC?, I forget who had quit the brand over warranty issues that left him in a bad position with his customers. I guess dealers matter but each one is a different storyline, brand aside, IMO.  


Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

North to Alaska

Quote from: kantuckid on July 10, 2021, 07:13:44 AM
Branson's are not a brand I've looked at lately and not far back they were very minor in the market. I just now skimmed their website and they have attractive machines. Niche brand same as my Kioti though both are huge corporations on a worldly basis. They are basically a TYM tractor-same as several other brands tractor models, that sell more tractors.
I'm uncertain how they stack up overall against Kioti & other Korean brands-as I've owned several but they don't use re-gen which I'd rather avoid.
Their system is a DPF version and likely not problematic.
Choosing a Branson means you should also look at other TYM built tractors?

Just to clarify, Branson and TYM are not the same tractor. Owned by the same parent company but the two tractors are completely different.
Branson 4520r tractor
Krpan 3.5 winch
MTL grapple
Dr 22k splitter
Stihl MS 261 CM

kantuckid

Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Bruno of NH

They are owned buy the same company but kept separately. 
Branson are much higher quality and fit / finish is much better.
Branson makes their own engines has for years.
They are really good that's why TYM parent company bought them out.
You will see more engines made in house for TYM with Branson engineering or built by Branson.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Bruno of NH

Bad Boy mowers makes implements and Branson makes them a line of tractors now.
They have different lighting and a different tire brand on them. 
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Joe Hillmann

I dont know if you plan to buy a new or used tractor.  If you plan to buy a used one.  Pay lots of attention to the rear tires and price new ones before buying the tractor.  Worn, torn, cut, rotted tires or  rusted through rims can become a major unexpected expense on what would otherwise be a good used tractor.

wisconsitom

Was just my experience, but I looked at used stuff for a year before deciding to go with new machine.  On the used end, anything decent was too dear, and the rest looked like somebody else's problems.  I don't have the shop capabilities to refurbish an old diamond in the rough, so that route was out.

Pretty glad I got what I did.  Size-wise and so on, it seems just right for our needs.  I won't be moving the earth with a utility tractor, but I sure can get a lot done.
Ask me about hybrid larch!

kantuckid

Lately tractors are a scarcer item at dealers, new or used. They have some but don't know when they'll get more. I've heard most wont even price one now, that's not sitting there, as they either don't know if they can get it or what the price might be when they do. it's a volatile time to buy things. Used tractors are not always someone elses problem_ i disagree with that. Looked at many lately but I will say that I'm avoiding anythings thats over 400+ hours or so. In big tractors thats not the same issue at all but I'm in the utility market not big tractors for big fields.
 Very often they are sold as result of a death, someone ceasing farming or a move to town or away from owning land and so on. Lots of low hours tractors out there so I've found but prices are often above what a tractor sold for new! but not always. Current inflation has affected many things, tractors included. Any recent made, low hours tractor is selling nearly at retail. New ones on lots get discounted still yet but I dislike paying 6% sales tax to buy new! and I don't qualify for an ag exemption so used private sale tractors are much cheaper. Good tractors do stay on the market for weeks and months though as I see ads daily. Private sellers tell me many potential buyers cannot get credit to buy a used private sale machine. Tractors like autos when sold by dealers you lose discounts to buy financed machines as it's added back into the deal. 
 Meanwhile there are tractors sitting dead right now waiting on parts and many brands affected. I saw a tractor ad recently on a web sale site the owner said it had major warranty reapirs and now a VG Mahindra but he further said he hadn't laid eyes on it in over a year while it waited for repair parts at the dealer where it was repaired and now for sale on consignment. That's one reason my tractor is dead right now-other tractors waiting on parts block valuable shop space. When a tractor is broken down it's then not mobile to sit aside out of the way. 
My dilemma is to either buy a 2nd one or wait. I'm testing my patience for now... 
 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

wisconsitom

Some good points, Kantuck.  Forgot to mention, it was odd when I was tractor-shopping, to be able to get what I would consider the marquee brand-Bobcat-for less than an equivalent Kioti machine, given Kioti is the manufacturer behind the Bobcat brand.  Further, the Kioti dealer wasn't sure if he could even get a machine in stock.  This was in '19, pre-covid.  

Another tidbit;  An LS dealer has set up a dealership right near my house here in town.  Unbelievable how they're moving tractors out of that place.  Every other day or so, stock is completely rotated.  I see trailers leaving with two and three machines on them, being delivered to new owners.  Not sure why, but they appear to be having no problems resupplying their stock.  Is actually a part of a tractor chain business here in NE WI.  What a goldmine.

Somebody said, 'why would they try to sell tractors in town'? or some such.  Heh, because they know about people like me that may live or work in town, but who have rural properties, may be nearing retirement age, may have pent-up need for such a machine, etc.  I looked at those blue ones and they seem pretty good, but I like my white and orange one!
Ask me about hybrid larch!

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