Excavator hydraulic pump making noise

[teakwood]

I have a 30to Volvo excavator and the kawasaki pump is making a humming noise, it's not something abnormal but the noise is getting louder, i have had the machine for the last 15 years and she is working flawlessly and i can't really tell when that noise started, the machine probably moves slower than when i bought it back in 2007.
Now that there are 2 more Volvo excavators working in the quarry i can feel the difference in these newer machines, they move faster and are quieter.
I'm pretty sure it's  normal worn sign, but which parts are worn and what has to be changed?

Both machines from the other firm are newer and bigger than mine, 2x Volvo EC330B


That's my machine, a 2000 Volvo EC290


@kiko,  @bushmechanic  

[nativewolf]

No idea but congratulations on the growth of the mine.  Really nice to see all the hard work come through.  Is it still you getting paid by truck and they are digging and crushing?  

[snowstorm]

The first thing is a copy of the psi specs and a gaudge. See if the stand by pressure is in spec. Then the boom stick bucket. The travel is often times higher than the others. That may be 5000psi or more and the boom only 4000. I have done some with a lynde pump but not with a kwaski. Should be a block bolted to the pump with 2 adjustment screws you will need to find out witch one is the high pressure screw.take the filters and cut them apart look for parts of Orin's and brass. If it's brass it's time to open your checkbook

[snowstorm]

The block on the pump is the regulator any junk in it can cause it to do strange things. You didn't say how many hours. If you suspect a problem it's better cheaper to find the cause now. A pump that destroys itself sends junk through everything. Hoses. Cylinders and the travel motors 

[kiko]

^^^°  it is sooo much better to catch it before catastrophic failure.   Likely what you got going on now is just wear.  The cylinder bores are worn like old engine.  Too much oil is escaping  to case drain and reducing flow.  Does the machine seems better when cold?  Any way you could get me the data plate info off that Kawasaki pump?

[rusticretreater]

I agree.  Pull the filters and do some surgery and exploring.  Pressure check.  Check around online forums and learn the common causes.  Replace the pump just because.  Flush the system(s).  All of these things will improve the performance.  You got any more money for us to spend? ;D

[teakwood]

No idea but congratulations on the growth of the mine.  Really nice to see all the hard work come through.  Is it still you getting paid by truck and they are digging and crushing?  

Thanks a lot NW, yes, still the same company, they do all the work. they have bought 12000 m3 the last 3 months, i'm very happy with how the quarry is functioning today. Recuperating some of the investment spent during the permit timeframe, which was 7 years. : :


 
We have lots of quarry mascots, we love them

I made a second exit which is way straighter and less inclined 

[teakwood]

^^^°  it is sooo much better to catch it before catastrophic failure.   Likely what you got going on now is just wear.  The cylinder bores are worn like old engine.  Too much oil is escaping  to case drain and reducing flow.  Does the machine seems better when cold?  Any way you could get me the data plate info off that Kawasaki pump?

That's what i'm thinking also, some wear in the pistons and cylinders, there is a seal kit sold by volvo but i don't think the pistons are included.
the machine has 8500h, i do great maintenance, all original filters, quality oil and exact oil changes. the machine is working flawlessly, she just screams a little. the higher the rpms the more you hear it. it's actually a Volvo Pump, not a Kawasaki. I have all the books and repair manuals.
 

the plate says
Model; 290-601
Serial; C20251 (not sure about the C, could be a G,6,0???)



these are pressure measure ports?

[fluidpowerpro]

As mentioned below, a worn piston pump will have excessive oil flow out of its case drain port. You will want to check the flow rate out of the case drain. You should check it while under pressure. Have you noticed if the hyd oil temp is higher than usual? Elevated oil temp is to be expected if the pump is going bad. Another cause of noise is air on the oil so make sure your oil level is not low. Look down the reservoir fill port with a flashlight to see if there is any air on the oil.

[Wlmedley]

I would check the suction strainer.It's probably in the hydraulic tank.I worked on Komatsu equipment for years and not sure of location on a Volvo.You are probably getting near end of life of hydraulic pump but I have seen them go 10,000 hours.

[kiko]

That is a Kawasaki pump, rebranded Volvo.  That might make it hard to source parts outside of Volvo.  Those pumps are quite simple to rebuild but they have lots of little orings.  There are two rotating groups in that pump assembly . Parts are identical except there is a left and right hand rotation valve plate.  

[Dom]

Rebuild is an option if you can have downtime, otherwise there may be an exchange for your core as well. 

[teakwood]

I will do a 500h hyd service soon and will inspect the strainer and return filter 

downtime is no problem, i even thinking of dismantling first and them measure the parts and then order them.
does the pilot pump also need to be rebuilt?

here is the parts scheme
 

[kiko]

I would be advisable to replace the pilot pump.   It would be wise in this day and age to at least locate a complete pump as the pump or repair parts may not be available or with long lead times. Yes tear the pump down. A common wear area is between the swash plate and it's saddle.  The swash has a replaceable shoe face, it the cradle contact area is good.   The Kawasaki pumps I am familiar with are slightly different than yours in the controller and feed back  but very similar in form.  

[teakwood]

Thanks for all the good advice. I did a 500h hyd Service, changed oil filters, return and drain filter, i checked the strainer and it was dirty, cleaned all up and the machine feels a little bit better but it didn't made a real noticeable difference. Oil is clean and return filter didn't had any contamination at all


some new teeth

[Wlmedley]

Strainer looks pretty dirty.Sometimes they are hard to get clean.This is on suction side of pump and if pump was starving for oil pump damage may have occurred.The only way strainer to get that dirty would be return filter was stopped up at some point and bypass was open or dirt entered when putting oil in tank.Oil may be dirtier than you think.l would run it a little while and pull strainer out again.If it's dirty change hydraulic oil.

[teakwood]

Yes strainer was pretty dirty, cleaned that in a gasoline bath, lasted 30min to clean it good but was totally clean after that. no dirt gets into the tank when i do the oil change, i'm super carefull with these things. i did notice two things, in my notes it seems that i forgot to clean the strainer the last time when i changed the hydraulic oil, so it was 4000h ago that i put a new strainer in, and the old return filter was missing the gasket which goes on the bottom of the filter. i sticked my hand down the oil to see if it was there but everything was clean down there, no dirt or gasket. i must have put the filter in without the gasket and it bugs me that i was so careless.

[hacknchop]

Don't beat yourself up about it do what I try to do, make it right and move on.
Personally I've been following your progress with the pit and the plantation and their apparent success is because of your ability and your exemplary work ethic.

[teakwood]

thanks a lot, such kind words, it's always nice to hear comments like that.

i'm not beating myself up over it, the pump works fine and i will check on the strainer and probably change the oil before the 2000h normal service interval. the freaking barrel of hyd oil for the change is around 1600$  and that price was before the war and shortage.

I'm probably overthinking this matter, as i usually do ;D. 

The firm who works in the quarry is exactly the opposite, and extreme. they ride there equipment until it falls apart. two 330 Volvos here, both with 0% undercarriage left, bottom rollers with one inch of play, the pins of the track are coming out of the bushings when they move. one makes a horrible noise in the swing, no A/C, 3 piston leaking of the 4, pump leaking. both buckets dance around like the dolls you put on the dash of your car, no bushings left there, tooth like a fist, it's sad sad.

Repair politic of the two (now in charge) sons of the company; patch it up and get back to work, no money around for maintenance. Once all the truck where parked for 1.5 days because they had no money to buy diesel paying wages, waiting on some payment to get in. what a mess

I closed the pit twice already because of delayed payments, and then miraculously the payment came in 3h later so they could keep extracting. :D   

[Skeans1]

Yes strainer was pretty dirty, cleaned that in a gasoline bath, lasted 30min to clean it good but was totally clean after that. no dirt gets into the tank when i do the oil change, i'm super carefull with these things. i did notice two things, in my notes it seems that i forgot to clean the strainer the last time when i changed the hydraulic oil, so it was 4000h ago that i put a new strainer in, and the old return filter was missing the gasket which goes on the bottom of the filter. i sticked my hand down the oil to see if it was there but everything was clean down there, no dirt or gasket. i must have put the filter in without the gasket and it bugs me that i was so careless.

Here's the big question how do you add oil? Is it pumped through the filters into the tanks or is it poured into the tank? If it's the latter I'm not surprised with how that looks honestly.

[barbender]

It is surprising how much debris there is in new hydraulic oil sometimes. Definitely best practice to filter it when filling, but that's not always an option. The Ponsse forwarder I operate is set up with a hydraulic suction pump to fill the hydraulic oil with. You hook a fill hose up to a quick coupler, and then you stick the hose into your hydraulic jug. I'm pretty sure the oil is sent through a filter on the way in. All that said, I had one situation where I added 5 gallons of oil from a new jug. Shortly afterwards, I blew a hose on the grapple and noticed that the oil looked really milky. Checked the reservoir and it was milky as well🤔 I thought maybe there was water in my fill hose (not likely) but Ponsse told me it would take more water than that to cloud the system. We took oil samples and it came back "dirt contamination"😬 Ponsse brought out a filter cart and filtered it a few times. It was still a touch cloudy but it cleared up eventually. Should've probably just drained it. I talked to the rep from the oil company and he admitted they had a "process error" that caused a bunch of sediment to get into the oil. They didn't offer any remedial action though🤷‍♂️

[teakwood]

Wow, really? i add the new oil drum with a hand pump but no filter. but the oil was clear like water, real nice looking oil.

[snowstorm]

sea foam trans tune will get rid of some water in the oil. after a while it will look like oil again

[Resonator]

The firm who works in the quarry is exactly the opposite, and extreme. they ride there equipment until it falls apart. two 330 Volvos here, both with 0% undercarriage left, bottom rollers with one inch of play, the pins of the track are coming out of the bushings when they move. one makes a horrible noise in the swing, no A/C, 3 piston leaking of the 4, pump leaking. both buckets dance around like the dolls you put on the dash of your car, no bushings left there, tooth like a fist, it's sad sad.

Sounds like the junk they give a fresh coat of paint (Dupont overhaul) and send to auction. :D

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but keep the hydraulic cooler clean and functioning for best oil life, especially in your location.

[teakwood]

Jaw crusher stopped with a awful sound in the jaw. not good!
needed 100to to pull the flywheel



15k $, one Bearing 


went to the blue river with my girlfriend

[barbender]

That's brutal for one bearing, big bearings are usually big $$$. Great pictures!

[Satamax]

Some chairlift bearings cost around 40000€. I'm sure in boats or other extremely heavy industry, some cost even more. 

[barbender]

My machine is at Ponsse for its spring service. The mechanics just sent me this picture, they said this stuff was in my hydraulic return filter👎

[barbender]

Not the finger, that was just for scale😂

[teakwood]

ughh, that's not good barbender


they will buy the bearing in china for 2000$, box and wrap all sayes SKF which is a quality brand, but for 2000$ i'm not so sure. they will only change one side and not even open the other side for inspection  :. there are two pairs of big bearings which move the jaw, i'm pretty sure both should be changed, at least the pair who is damaged

[mike_belben]

ramon when you tear down your pumps have a sheet of glass and a few new sheets of sandpaper available and some old gasoline for wash solvent.  brush on some oil or ATF or even WD40 to the glass to get the sandpaper to stick to the glass, then oil the paper grit side.

when you find these, resurface them to fine polished perfection and put it back together.  you are getting crossleakage on the output side of your pumping elements.  






nice work on the quarry, and dont let that GF get away.

[Southside]

What are those Mike? 

[mike_belben]

That is the rotating group of a variable displacement piston pump, and the brass plate that it rotates against.  The 3 hole port is the discharge from each pumping element. The deeper the grooves here the more output you are leaking back to tank, so to speak. 
  

[PoginyHill]

Commutator. Same function as a commutator on a DC motor. Directs power to the proper place as the thing rotates.

[teakwood]

ramon when you tear down your pumps have a sheet of glass and a few new sheets of sandpaper available and some old gasoline for wash solvent.  brush on some oil or ATF or even WD40 to the glass to get the sandpaper to stick to the glass, then oil the paper grit side.

when you find these, resurface them to fine polished perfection and put it back together.  you are getting crossleakage on the output side of your pumping elements.  






nice work on the quarry, and dont let that GF get away.

Thanks Mike, good trick, if heard the same thing applies on the bottom of the pistons they can be revived with a light polish, we will see. I'm not quite there yet, machine works pretty good, talking to a mechanic here he has some experience with pumps and told me to first measure pressure to see where we at, so maybe I buy a good quality Chinesium gauge kit with all the adaptors. 
Quote from Volvo Miami, 7k for all the wear parts and probably need to change sealkit for the complete valve bank. Same parts in China, best available quality, 1800$ including DHL delivered to my door.

[mike_belben]

Yeah, market disruptors.  Some day china will be getting volvos price and there wont be an alternative.


Ive not seen a ton of these pumps apart but the ones i have didnt have any issue on the toggle feet that ride around on the swash plate surface.  Id hope the swash face is harder.  If either surface was chewed up im sure itd be noisy.


Your charge pump that feeds the piston pump is probably a gear roller and that could be cracked in the lobe webs, i have seen this in wheel motors 2x.  Look really close at all parts.  If the charge pump had leakage the piston pump could be going negative to suction and that would cavitate and chatter with noise.  Also wear the piston pump faster.  The fit of the plungers in the cylinder bores is obviously important too.


This all comes after looking at your pressures and relief cartridges.  If you could measure the case drain flow into a clean bucket or with an inline flow meter in front of a camera that can quantify how much oil is squeezing out thru wear pathways.  


New oil isnt all that clean and should be filtered into a machine that you really want to last.  

A procon beverage head run by a drill through a filter head and hoses would work.

[teakwood]

Had a mechanic check out the pump, the guy is good, knows his stuff, not cheap but worth his money. the pump is at 4700psi and should be 5000, but the flow is down. there is definitively oil bypassing the pistons. his verdict, rebuild pump. new pump 18k, reman 11k, parts original in costa rica 24k  ???, aftermarket american made parts 7k, original parts in Miami 8k. i would like to lower this prices, find the parts cheaper, will definitively try to find OEM kawasaki parts, which should be cheaper than renamed Volvo parts. does anybody have a source of a good hydraulic shop/ dealer/ seller?? really appreciate the help. @kiko and all the other hyd gurus in the forum. or any good AM american made brands?

It's a Kawasaki K3V 140DT pump
 

[barbender]

That is unfortunate, but you are definitely better off getting ahead of it before it fails completely. Sometimes we don't realize how central to our operation a certain machine is, until it isn't operating. I hope you find some cheaper parts!

[Log-it-up]

Try these guys out bought a skidder pump from them really reasonably priced good quality

Quality Heavy Equipment Parts for Less, Construction, Forestry, Mining, Agriculture

[kiko]

Call Hydraulix ,Seattle WA.  Ask to speak to David .  Tell him Keith from Forestry Parts Reaouce said to give him a try.  They are on Pacific time.   253 604 0400.

[teakwood]

Call Hydraulix ,Seattle WA.  Ask to speak to David .  Tell him Keith from Forestry Parts Reaouce said to give him a try.  They are on Pacific time.   253 604 0400.

After alot of research i ended up buying the quality AM from Korea from David at Hydraulix, real nice and helpful guy, thanks @kiko 
Whole pump overhaul kit with freight to miami about 2500$. 1100$ to Costa Rica and another 2000$ for the mechanic, my work and new oil, i'm pretty happy with this, 400$ for the main valve block overhaul kit, will do it right all in once.

[teakwood]

Update, we did the complete overhaul of the hydraulic pump, i left the valve bank alone as it work flawlessly and has no leak at all. Mechanic was here for about 2days and everything went smooth, was very interesting, i learned alot. the guy is not cheap but knows his business. we did measure all the pressures after a good work out in the quarry, everything is in specs, the humming, singing noise is gone and the machine response better than before. I'm a happy camper.
the old pump was still in great shape, we found nothing catastrophic
 

[kiko]

It is always great to rebuild a worn pump before catastrophic failure and a complete system clean out!

[GRANITEstateMP]

excavator is nice....but I like your truck!

[teakwood]

 :D that was the mechanics truck, i have a "vintage" 1999 diesel Hilux, the legend.

I'm selling it for 14k right now, with 350'000 km, people are crazy for what they pay for these cars