Cutting logs with horizontal tension

[Walnut Beast]

Let's hear some of the best ways you do it to cut let's say a 17" walnut limb or log or other valuable logs that you absolutely don't want to split with horizontal tension on it that are on a down tree off the ground 

[Southside]

I would put the limb onto a trailer headed to Nebraska.  ;D

[lshobie]

Do you mean risk of barber chair?  If so just leave it - or use an excavator.

[Crusarius]

First we must inform you of the forestry forum rules of engagement. This include absolutely no cutting from a ladder

can you support the limb with something so it doesn't drop till you want it to?

[Oddman]

That can be a tough one depending on the setup. Limbs, not such a big deal, low value. But say you've got a log spanning a draw, supported by the butt on one end and the top on the other...best case is, you pull it to a better position with a machine but that's not always possible or practical.
Generalization is usually what you will find in the books/manuals and they can get you to where you think you know alot. Some time in the woods can reinforce that false perception. You probably won't know enough to realize what you Don't know and that can cause real problems at times. Fact is I've been out of the falling game for long enough now that I would feel a bit unsure of my own self if I stepped back in it full time. Atleast for a while. And walnut is its own animal, it gets skinned a bit differently than other stuff, atleast around here and with the crews ive worked on. 
I don't know what you do know. I don't know your ''style" of cutting. I don't know the ground your in, the saw you run, the size and shape of walnut your in...so that puts us back at those generalizations. 
Anyways, i hope you don't take my words to be directed at you personally, I am just writing as if to a person much like myself when i was first feeling "ready" to take on real timber. 

[Log-it-up]

Hopefully I did this right with the link but I find this a good way not to spilt high dolor 💰 stuff, just a you tube video I found explains pretty good I usually don't do such if a open face but the principal is there
BORE CUT (Explained) - YouTube

[Walnut Beast]

That can be a tough one depending on the setup. Limbs, not such a big deal, low value. But say you've got a log spanning a draw, supported by the butt on one end and the top on the other...best case is, you pull it to a better position with a machine but that's not always possible or practical.
Generalization is usually what you will find in the books/manuals and they can get you to where you think you know alot. Some time in the woods can reinforce that false perception. You probably won't know enough to realize what you Don't know and that can cause real problems at times. Fact is I've been out of the falling game for long enough now that I would feel a bit unsure of my own self if I stepped back in it full time. Atleast for a while. And walnut is its own animal, it gets skinned a bit differently than other stuff, atleast around here and with the crews ive worked on.
I don't know what you do know. I don't know your ''style" of cutting. I don't know the ground your in, the saw you run, the size and shape of walnut your in...so that puts us back at those generalizations.
Anyways, i hope you don't take my words to be directed at you personally, I am just writing as if to a person much like myself when i was first feeling "ready" to take on real timber.

You understand what I'm talking about. I've cut up from the bottom and then down on the top. I was going to experiment and vertical bore cut the middle then horizontal cut down.  That's what I was wondering if anybody did but it's been pretty quiet 😂. I've bore cut on the stump on walnut and it works very slick and I think hands down the best way

[Walnut Beast]

I would put the limb onto a trailer headed to Nebraska.  ;D

Then I could saw it up and send it back to you in Pringles 😂

[Old Greenhorn]

I didn't fully grasp your question at first, my muddled mind has made reading comprehension slip way down. But I get it now. Here is how I do those:
 Assuming a horizontal log where the top is in compression and the bottom is in tension. I cut from the top down just a few inches to get through the bark and some on the sap wood then run the bar around the perimeter to try and relieve more of that sap wood on the top half of the log. Just don't go so far as the bar begins to pinch. maybe 2-3" deep on a 18" diameter log.
 Then I pull the bar and drop down a fair amount to leave 6" or more if I can between my first cut and where I start the bore and I bore right straight through. I run that cut out the bottom of the log which should allow the top cut the close but the stem should stay intact, then I reverse my cut and come straight up through the top cut. Getting the depth of the top cut is tricky, but after some boo-boo's you develop a feel for how much it too much. I often go as deep as I can until 'the force' signals me that a pinch in about to happen. You can do a small double wide cut on top to increase your working kerf.
 For hanging stuff where the forces are reversed I just flip the process upside down and start with a bottom cut.
 Hope this might help a little. Good luck, be quick, and watch those reaction forces for the stem that does an odd kick toward you rather than dropping down as expected.

[Nebraska]

I would put the limb onto a trailer headed to Nebraska.  ;D

For a brief instance, I thought Southside was poking fun at me....

[Walnut Beast]

Thanks for the feedback Greenhorn 👍

[Oddman]

I didn't fully grasp your question at first, my muddled mind has made reading comprehension slip way down. But I get it now. Here is how I do those:
Assuming a horizontal log where the top is in compression and the bottom is in tension. I cut from the top down just a few inches to get through the bark and some on the sap wood then run the bar around the perimeter to try and relieve more of that sap wood on the top half of the log. Just don't go so far as the bar begins to pinch. maybe 2-3" deep on a 18" diameter log.
Then I pull the bar and drop down a fair amount to leave 6" or more if I can between my first cut and where I start the bore and I bore right straight through. I run that cut out the bottom of the log which should allow the top cut the close but the stem should stay intact, then I reverse my cut and come straight up through the top cut. Getting the depth of the top cut is tricky, but after some boo-boo's you develop a feel for how much it too much. I often go as deep as I can until 'the force' signals me that a pinch in about to happen. You can do a small double wide cut on top to increase your working kerf.
For hanging stuff where the forces are reversed I just flip the process upside down and start with a bottom cut.
Hope this might help a little. Good luck, be quick, and watch those reaction forces for the stem that does an odd kick toward you rather than dropping down as expected.

That's the general method and will suffice most of the time. It's likely going to result in fiber pull or a split log when the tension is high enough. Walnut is very susceptible to that, pretty easy to damage the stuff. Especially if your used to cutting other hardwoods like R.O. or W.O.
WalnutBeast, it sounds like you're bore cutting some of your walnut at the stump and that is a viable "trick" for certain tension situations. Although I don't know just how your doing it at the stump...but basically every walnut of value that ive felled has been with a bore cut, no face. Or a Very small face if I really needed to direct the tree. Conventional faces/back cuts/hinges are practically unheard of around the cutters i know when it comes to walnut.
You mentioned a vertical bore. I don't know about that, it sounds like you're gonna have to be on top of the log to do that? Sounds risky. One method that can work is to make the top cut much like OG mentioned, then step over to one side of that cut a few inches or so and make your bore cut, overlapping slightly the top cut so you dont have fiber pull. You can finish that buck multiple ways, if there's a whole lotta tension it gonna be hard to know what you can get away with (how far to bore down before pulling out?) But ive had success pulling out and moving over again before ripping the bottom out with the bar tip starting from the far side and finishing on your side, "boom!" and she's on the ground.
Walnut really favors a saw that can really "rip" and with a long bar...
Good luck man, that walnut can make you feel like a hero when you get lucky but can also make you feel pretty dumb when things dont go right. But how else is a guy gonna learn?

[Oddman]

Forgot to mention that popping a wedge in that top cut is a good idea.
And all the safety stuff applies, although it's a high risk game. Risk management is a valuable skill...
Some of the scariest moments for me came while topping trees. Walnut tended to present more of those moments, percentage wise, due to the fact it was normally a select cut and the falling methods give less control. Thats one reason i prefer a long bar for serious work, gives you more stand off room.

[Log-it-up]

I miss understood too but yes I would undercut maybe about about a third then I would down cut Infront  of that by a inch or two good sharp saw helps wide her up and let it eat

[Walnut Beast]

Thanks Log-it-up 💪

[Walnut Beast]

I didn't fully grasp your question at first, my muddled mind has made reading comprehension slip way down. But I get it now. Here is how I do those:
Assuming a horizontal log where the top is in compression and the bottom is in tension. I cut from the top down just a few inches to get through the bark and some on the sap wood then run the bar around the perimeter to try and relieve more of that sap wood on the top half of the log. Just don't go so far as the bar begins to pinch. maybe 2-3" deep on a 18" diameter log.
Then I pull the bar and drop down a fair amount to leave 6" or more if I can between my first cut and where I start the bore and I bore right straight through. I run that cut out the bottom of the log which should allow the top cut the close but the stem should stay intact, then I reverse my cut and come straight up through the top cut. Getting the depth of the top cut is tricky, but after some boo-boo's you develop a feel for how much it too much. I often go as deep as I can until 'the force' signals me that a pinch in about to happen. You can do a small double wide cut on top to increase your working kerf.
For hanging stuff where the forces are reversed I just flip the process upside down and start with a bottom cut.
Hope this might help a little. Good luck, be quick, and watch those reaction forces for the stem that does an odd kick toward you rather than dropping down as expected.

That's the general method and will suffice most of the time. It's likely going to result in fiber pull or a split log when the tension is high enough. Walnut is very susceptible to that, pretty easy to damage the stuff. Especially if your used to cutting other hardwoods like R.O. or W.O.
WalnutBeast, it sounds like you're bore cutting some of your walnut at the stump and that is a viable "trick" for certain tension situations. Although I don't know just how your doing it at the stump...but basically every walnut of value that ive felled has been with a bore cut, no face. Or a Very small face if I really needed to direct the tree. Conventional faces/back cuts/hinges are practically unheard of around the cutters i know when it comes to walnut.
You mentioned a vertical bore. I don't know about that, it sounds like you're gonna have to be on top of the log to do that? Sounds risky. One method that can work is to make the top cut much like OG mentioned, then step over to one side of that cut a few inches or so and make your bore cut, overlapping slightly the top cut so you dont have fiber pull. You can finish that buck multiple ways, if there's a whole lotta tension it gonna be hard to know what you can get away with (how far to bore down before pulling out?) But ive had success pulling out and moving over again before ripping the bottom out with the bar tip starting from the far side and finishing on your side, "boom!" and she's on the ground.
Walnut really favors a saw that can really "rip" and with a long bar...
Good luck man, that walnut can make you feel like a hero when you get lucky but can also make you feel pretty dumb when things dont go right. But how else is a guy gonna learn?

Appreciate it!! Your right 😂. I wasn't thinking on the bore cut I had mentioned and you said I don't know about that

[Walnut Beast]

Changed things up a little and bore cut through the center all the way down to sap and up. Works perfect every time and that's how I'm rolling! From big to small with heavy to extreme tension. All these were off the ground!  Here are some pics big and small. 

 

 

 

 

 

     

[Walnut Beast]

I would put the limb onto a trailer headed to Nebraska.  ;D

I'll take and I did limbs like this

 

[Oddman]

Lookin good

[Larry]

basically every walnut of value that ive felled has been with a bore cut, no face. Or a Very small face if I really needed to direct the tree. Conventional faces/back cuts/hinges are practically unheard of around the cutters i know when it comes to walnut.

I'm always impressed when I see a logger that knows how to cut walnut.  Watching it appears so easy and usually quite fast.

I don't have the skill to do it, but I can get them down with that small face and bore cutting.

I get walnut all the time at the mill with split butts, sometimes veneer.  I feel bad that the logger? lost so much money by not learning how to cut walnut.  On the other hand I couldn't afford to buy some of those logs if it was felled correctly.

[Log-it-up]

Looks good, smooth cutting from here on out

[Oddman]

basically every walnut of value that ive felled has been with a bore cut, no face. Or a Very small face if I really needed to direct the tree. Conventional faces/back cuts/hinges are practically unheard of around the cutters i know when it comes to walnut.

I'm always impressed when I see a logger that knows how to cut walnut.  Watching it appears so easy and usually quite fast.

I don't have the skill to do it, but I can get them down with that small face and bore cutting.

I get walnut all the time at the mill with split butts, sometimes veneer.  I feel bad that the logger? lost so much money by not learning how to cut walnut.  On the other hand I couldn't afford to buy some of those logs if it was felled correctly.

Interesting perspective Larry, that you can afford that quality because of someone else's mistake..i have made such mistakes myself plenty of times, thankfully I learned alot of lessons on "cheaper wood" than veneer walnut!
I learned alot of technique i used on walnut from my Uncle who learned from our older cousin who was a logger his entire life. That cousin grew up learning to fall on much of the same land that i currently harvest from/manage..that older cousin died yesterday, crushed by a tree he felled. 
I was talking with my uncle last night. Wer in a rural area, we both are involved in forestry/logging and have always been since entering the age where one can be productive in that area of work. You can imagine the amount of accidents that we are aware of and even experienced. But a death like that hits very close to home. It's a dangerous game.
 

[Walnut Beast]

basically every walnut of value that ive felled has been with a bore cut, no face. Or a Very small face if I really needed to direct the tree. Conventional faces/back cuts/hinges are practically unheard of around the cutters i know when it comes to walnut.

I'm always impressed when I see a logger that knows how to cut walnut.  Watching it appears so easy and usually quite fast.

I don't have the skill to do it, but I can get them down with that small face and bore cutting.

I get walnut all the time at the mill with split butts, sometimes veneer.  I feel bad that the logger? lost so much money by not learning how to cut walnut.  On the other hand I couldn't afford to buy some of those logs if it was felled correctly.

Interesting perspective Larry, that you can afford that quality because of someone else's mistake..i have made such mistakes myself plenty of times, thankfully I learned alot of lessons on "cheaper wood" than veneer walnut!
I learned alot of technique i used on walnut from my Uncle who learned from our older cousin who was a logger his entire life. That cousin grew up learning to fall on much of the same land that i currently harvest from/manage..that older cousin died yesterday, crushed by a tree he felled.
I was talking with my uncle last night. Wer in a rural area, we both are involved in forestry/logging and have always been since entering the age where one can be productive in that area of work. You can imagine the amount of accidents that we are aware of and even experienced. But a death like that hits very close to home. It's a dangerous game.

Sorry to hear about that Oddman! That has crossed my mind cutting these big Walnuts down and recovering them. Very dangerous! Even when you are carful freak things happen 

[Walnut Beast]

Oddman this gnarly 28" big guy comes to mind. Thinking about taking him down and it's a concern with the tension and location. Right on the creek bank and it's definitely not a ideal situation! 

 

 

[Ianab]

That's a tree that wants the bore cutting technique from the earlier video. Having to work on the side of the creek complicates life, but mostly in a "don't loose your footing and slide down the hill" sort of way. Do the final release cut from where ever you have the best footing / escape path.