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Old growth

Started by Al_Smith, May 07, 2022, 07:54:00 AM

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Al_Smith

I've tried to buy this woods for 25 years and finally landed it .It came up at auction and is adjoining to my property .The sales crowd was a lot of spectators and few bidders . A couple of land speculators and a couple of timber cruisers and one old country bumpkin with deep pockets  ;) 
The cruisers got out of it early but the land grabbers tried to out bid me ,didn't happen .I bought it not for the land but to stop anybody building on it and stop all those oaks from being shipped off to China to make oak plywood .It took a couple hundred years to grow them .Most of them I think are peelers .
So maybe 15 or so years in the future my kids will have other ideas but right now I have the say so .Plus I have enough firewood to last me the rest of my life all within 500 feet . 8)

 

moodnacreek

Congratulations, not only for acquiring the land but also being able to .

barbender

Nice score, Al! I love to see some stands just left alone. They have more value for their history and beauty to me. 
Too many irons in the fire

newoodguy78

That's a beautiful stand. Congratulations on a great purchase. 

Bricklayer51


Al_Smith

It's a deal like this .In order to get to the sun those newer growths  head for the sky .Tall and skinny until they reach it .A big blow comes though and snaps them off like match sticks .Those 100 foot tall fat oaks have bucked the wind so long it would take a twister to snap them off .They were most likely 12" or more in diameter  in Civil war days .
Fact in the last 3-4 months the wind snapped off a row of basswood around 18" 20" all in a row on the property line .Basswood is a hardwood but not nearly as tough as oak .On the list to do .It burns just like any wood .just takes more of it .

Oddman

My wife and I occasionally get calves from an old farmer bout an hour from here. He's in the middle of a bunch of new subdivisions. 27 acres right by his yard was full of huge oaks, many just as old as what you just bought, although not peeler quality. I say was because they getting pushed over and butted off right now, the lot will have 30 some houses on it soon.
The 27 acres brought $3 million, which seems ridiculous for our area but Springfield and Branson MO area is pretty hot right now.

SwampDonkey

Great score, to get ahead of the next subdivision for awhile. :D ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Al_Smith

Within the last two years Walmart destroyed 25 acres of prime oak locally  .I mean nary a tree standing.I only suppose the peelers ended up in China .Farm land is fetching  9 grand an acre and more and commercial stuff a lot higher than that .I had to ante up up a tad more than farm land but as far as I'm concerned well worth it .I don't want to ever  see northern Ohio look like the prairie lands of Kansas or eastern Colorado .

ehp

Al are you on clay or sand there , Your not that far from me really in a straight line and here I'm on sand and trees do not live a long time but grow quite big and fast , on clay the trees live a lot longer but grow a lot slower . Just keep your eye on the stumps and watch for bugs eating their way around the stump , if they start getting bad get those trees out of your wood lot 

bitternut

Glad you were able to get the forest land Al. Sounds like a great spot to just go sit and enjoy. You are a lucky guy and I hope your heirs are able to appreciate it like you seem to.

JBlain

Well done.  I have been in your shoes and never regretted your decision.  Much better to see trees than a vinyl siding farm.  
Josh

Firewoodjoe

I've bought ever piece that adjoins me as they come up for sale. One piece left I really want. They are all small but still. Only cause I don't want neighbors. Well not wanting neighbors gets expensive lol but I can walk out my door any time in my shorts and never see anyone or be seen. Priceless! 😂

Al_Smith

This is glaciated terrain from the second ice age .It's a form of clay ,some blue clay .There's a layer of gravel under the clay often where I'm at around 100 feet down and limestone another 80-100 fee below that .It's very rich farm farm land and brings a premium price. Flat as Kansas .I'm about 2-3 miles south of what used to be called the great black swamp . 
This is limestone country which can vary in depth .I think it's around 160 down here and in some places the other side of the county maybe only 25 feet .If you sink a well and stay above the rock you stand a good chance of missing the sulfur but if you are in it you might get "egg" water .I have one well in the rock and one in a gravel vein above it .---more --

Al_Smith

If you get 20 miles south of here you have deposits of sand and gravel that used to be in Canada a zillion years ago .It's where the ice age stuff started to melt and thus you get the rolling hills which eventually far south looks about like West Virginia .
Now going back in history it wasn't the oil boom but rather the white oaks that caused the population rise .There were something like 20 stave mills alone plus the RR ties .
I have no idea how they did it but somehow they floated those big oak logs across lake Erie into Canada .Talk about a job,my word . 
As years go by the stands of big oaks are becoming less and less .I did however see one stand, 10 acres of 4-5 footers, mine are only 3-3.5 foot .In the past the biggest white oaks on the earth came from the black swamp although one area I think in Pa near Philley had the tallest ..Those became masts for wind jammers in the days of wooden ships and iron men .

thecfarm

Good for you.
I bought back 7 acres of The Farm many years ago to keep people away. 
I am not a good neighbor. I make noise early in the morning and up to 9pm at night too.
Only been to OH once, to see the Amish, Sugar Creek. This was back in 2005. They were still putting in loose hay!!  :o   In fact I stopped to talk to one of them and noticed the horse drawn mower. I looked at the markings and thought, I have one on my stonewall just like that.  :o
I have not traveled a lot, but been to a few different states. What I was amazed at, that area looked just about like Maine, even the trees. Even the lay of the land and the farms. There would be a farm than maybe 10 miles away another farm with maybe 10 -15 homes in between as Maine would be.
As I told my wife, if I was sleeping for 18 hours straight and woke here I would say, I've never seen this part of Maine.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

nativewolf

Quote from: Oddman on May 07, 2022, 01:37:57 PM
My wife and I occasionally get calves from an old farmer bout an hour from here. He's in the middle of a bunch of new subdivisions. 27 acres right by his yard was full of huge oaks, many just as old as what you just bought, although not peeler quality. I say was because they getting pushed over and butted off right now, the lot will have 30 some houses on it soon.
The 27 acres brought $3 million, which seems ridiculous for our area but Springfield and Branson MO area is pretty hot right now.
I guess that is building lot prices, maybe 30 lots?  So $100k/lot for dirt.  Steep.  Too bad about the oaks.
Liking Walnut

petefrom bearswamp

 Nice score Al
Not a lot of Oak on my home property, but one that I harvested in 1994 measured 36" and was 90 years old by ring count.
Ill bet Ohio doesnt grow nearly as good a crop of rocks s Maine.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Al_Smith

A 36" in this part of Ohio would be right at 200 years .The largest I've ever dropped was a big red oak that was storm damaged from 90 to 100 MPH straight line winds side effect of a tornado .117 foot tree 70 feet from my house 4 feet at breast height .That one had between 270 to 290 rings .Hard to get them all .It was less than a year after that  we got hit with the worst ice storm of a century in the entire USA .It could have came right down on us .I saved the logs which probably have down graded since a lot .Might get some good lumber or just firewood if nothing else .You never know what's in the nut before you crack it . :)  

Hogdaddy

Nice buy!  In April a group from church went to help with cleanup where the December tornado hit... The fella that we helped had a white oak that was uprooted that was over 5' at the stump and 36" at 26' long. I counted what looked like an average inch at the 36" point, counted 8 rings in that inch. That would be 288 years old... and it cut great, had that pinkish color to it. Some over 2000 ft in the tree.  I hated it and the landowner was very sick over it, as he was a tree lover. 
If you gonna be a bear, be a Grizzly!

ID4ster

Congratulations on the purchase! Now the thing to do is to harvest the acorns when those veneer quality oks produce them. They have the genetics that Nativewolf is looking for in his poor tree thread. That is the real value in your purchase. You've got a seed bank that could be used to upgrade the timber quality on high-graded timber lots. I'm not certain about the seed transfer zones of white oak and how far it could be transplanted but those are certainly the quality of timber and genetics I'd be looking for if I were in an eastern hardwood forest area.

Again, great job on the purchase. Now you can put those trees to their highest and best use.   
Bob Hassoldt
Seven Ridges Forestry
Kendrick, Idaho
Want to improve your woodlot the fastest way? Start thinning, believe me it needs it.

Al_Smith

I never thought of that .I just figured they were white oaks grown in competition for sun light . BTW I have a 100 foot black walnut that has the largest  nuts I've ever seen falling from 65 -70 feet that would knock you out if one hit you in the noggin .I used to collect them and mail a box or two to my wifes' aunt in PA who sent me the nicest walnut cake I've ever had in my life .Actually I have a fair amount of walnuts but none that large .I'm telling you Ohio at one time had some good hard woods .Alas all it is now is good corn as far as the eye can see .
 

beenthere

When talking walnuts that are falling, then they are in the husk (green, soft, turns black after hitting the ground). 

But I have walnut trees that have large husks with small nut meats within the hard shell. Then there are other walnut trees with medium size husks that have large nut meats within the hard shell. 
So husk size not a good predictor of good yield of hut meats. 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Al_Smith

I'm not really a tree hugger but two hundred plus year old oaks are kind of a national treasure .This little 5 acres are what Ohio once used to look like . .Hard wood forests from Lake Erie to the Ohio river .From the flat lands of NW Ohio to what looks a lot like W Virginia in the south where they ran out of flat land and had to stack those acres on end . ;D

nativewolf

Quote from: Al_Smith on May 14, 2022, 06:27:49 PM
I never thought of that .I just figured they were white oaks grown in competition for sun light . BTW I have a 100 foot black walnut that has the largest  nuts I've ever seen falling from 65 -70 feet that would knock you out if one hit you in the noggin .I used to collect them and mail a box or two to my wifes' aunt in PA who sent me the nicest walnut cake I've ever had in my life .Actually I have a fair amount of walnuts but none that large .I'm telling you Ohio at one time had some good hard woods .Alas all it is now is good corn as far as the eye can see .

Ohio and Indiana had the best.  Amazing forest.  I've seen just a few pockets.  I agree ID4ster that the acorns would be worth collecting.  The issue is that the  best WO were high graded out, over time, again and again and again (about every 30 years).  So the area you're in could have been cut 5-7 harvest.  For there to still be WO with good form is a treat.  We're working on some phenotypes that are of interest to us.  Small butt swell (when hand cutting they would often selectively harvest that phenotype and leave the larger butt swells in the stand, limbs at 90 degrees, smaller limbs the better, no epicormic (sometimes you'll see a WO with just a thousand epicormic sprouts in the middle of a dense stand) sprouts, heavy acorn yields, more frequent fruiting.  
Your WO look about as nice as any we see and I would hope you could get your state forest nursery people over to see if they'd do some collecting (or find out if they have better- that would be something).  If you have some open space plant some yourself.  If you have a few pounds extra we'd try to grow some out here as well in our nursery.  
Liking Walnut

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