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Thoughts on shotguns?

Started by Scott, August 15, 2006, 09:46:25 AM

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Scott

 Hi, Next week I'm going for my hunters safety and firearms safety courses, after that I'll be able to get my FAC and hunting licenses. I'm looking to buy a 12 or 20 guage shotgun, preferably a side by side. I was looking at Stoeger's coach gun line but they only have 20 inch barrels. Is that OK for partrige hunting? Does anyone have any thoughts on these guns or any other reccomendations for me? Thanks.
www.stoegerindustries.com

Bill Johnson

I would think the coach gun would be too short for hunting partridge, personally I use a stevens-savage .410 double barrel that I purchased from a family friend over 35 years ago. 

I would suggest you look at .410 or 20 ga for partridge, provided you are not shooting them on the wing.  If you have spooky birds or are doing a lot of wing shooting I would consider a 12 ga. pump.

Bill

Bill

Scott

Most of the partrige I've seen taken were on the wing, I guess we have spooky birds here. I already have a 12GA single shot and my dad's friend is giving me a 12GA pump. What can you tell me about the straight english style stock vs the pistol grip style? I'm kind of stuck between the Silverado coachgun with english stock and the coach gun supreme, which has screw in choke tubes.

Norm

My first real shotgun was a cheap double barrel and loved it to death. It had a 20" barrel and at the time I didn't think it was too short but after using some better quality ones I realized that the longer barreled ones are easier shooting and more accurate. You may consider an over-under with different chokes too.

Not sure of your budget but one of my favorite shotguns is the citori

Scott

Norm, the Citori is a little rich for my blood, I still have tuition to pay for  :D. Browning sure is a nice gun though. I thought about the over unders but theres just something about the side by sides. I can get one of those little stoegers for $400, and thats a dressed up model. Thanks for your thoughts

SwampDonkey

Grandfather always hunted with an Ithica 20 guage (full and modified-side by side). He shot them on the wing as well as perched after his hunting dogs treed or flushed them. He did all his hunting on foot on old grown in roads. Some flocks over north (Miramachi country) were as dumb as chickens. In close to the settlements, they are wild as the wind.

[edit]His last year hunting was in 1992 nearing his 84 th birthday. In April 1993, he went blind and he passed on in April 1995.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

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Tom

I have thoughts, but the way this conversation is going, I'm afraid you're mind is already made up. :)

My Choice would be a 12 gauge.  You can select shot and powder loads with a shotgun.  Why limit yourself to the amount of shot you can throw in the air.

Twelve Gauge shells are usually cheaper, or as cheap, as other moderate loads.  The smaller shells are actually top-dollar.  You can go broke trying to feed a 410 in a dove shoot.

Side by sides have a following, usually because of the looks.  In reality they are usually two different guns, in that one barrel will be tighter than the other.

Pumps and auto-loaders give you the backup of a third shot.  Some places let you have even more. The argument that most double barrel owners use against auto-loaders is that the third shot is wasted.  My argument, and I take sides with my Granddad, is that the first two shots are for birds.  The third is for that buck deer that jumps up out of the fence line while you are hunting quail.  You can fire two quick shots and get to the 0 buck pretty quick, if you want to.  A pump will have you ejecting two shells, but that comes second nature with experience.

I would think that another consideration a bird hunter in Canada would have, other than a deer, is a bear.  Now you are talking self defense.

Single shot shotguns are good first guns for a youngster and good truck or kitchen guns.  They are very cheap and very dependable.  You learn to load quick, but it's usually too slow for a follow-up shot.

Pistol grips and straight grips are just a matter of preference.  Arguments on both sides will usually end with "I like it better".

Shotguns are like automobiles.  You can spend a lot of money if you get caught up in the "keep up with the Joneses".  There are many used guns on the market and more than not have been sparsely used.   Look for dependability, not checkering.

I still use my Granddad's gun.  It's a Remington model 11.  My Grandmom bought it for him in 1913 for  $30.00.   It's not the prettiest gun in the world, but it works.  It carries a lot of sentiment as well.

Think about buying something that you can pass down rather than trade.  It might mean a lot to a young boy one day.

scsmith42

Ditto Tom's comments.

Personally, I like autoloaders, and am partial to the Benelli's.  There's just nothing like having an autoloader with a large mag to help ward off the dreaded "post-ammo depression"!

Brownings are also nice - I had an A5 in a past life.
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Scott

Great post Tom. the reason I lean towards the SXS is mostly for looks  :D I don't know why but I've always wanted one. That being said I'm usually not very materialistic when it comes to guns. I see them as being like tools, who cares how they look as long as they work. At the same time though it's important to look after your tools. I think I'm going to stick to bird hunting, I'm too much of a softy to hunt deer. The pump action that I'm getting has a 4 or 5 shot magazine with a 2 round extension. Any of the semi autos I've seen only 3 shots though.
ScSmith, I've had my eye on the Benellis. Theyre a really nice gun for a fair price. Benelli makes some pretty impressive tactical shotguns  :) theyre kind of like a Cat D11, I'd love to have one but I don't know what I'd ever use it for. They now own gerber knives, franci and stoeger guns too.

jon12345

I live and die by the 870, well, pretty much  :D
A.A.S. in Forest Technology.....Ironworker

dutchman

There is a shotgun made for Remington in Russia, it's called a Spartan.
Price reflects the appearance but not the functionality.
Several to chose from would work for you.
Try:
http://www.impactguns.com/store/spartan.html ,to view models.
http://www.gunbroker.com/  ,to find good price.
Keep us in the loop, love hunting grouse in PA.






UNCLEBUCK

I have shot alot of shotguns and the nicest I have ever shot is a Browning Citori which is the over/under style , it was 12 gauge but was a dream to shoot because laying the sights on a flying bird with that over/under combo really seemed to draw your eye in on the sight . It was my cousins gun and he let me try it and its safe for going to shooting contest like trap and skeet because everyone walks around with the gun broken open until its your turn to step up to the plate . Only 2 shells but I could drop more ducks that day than the semi automatics that had 3 shells .  I bet a over/under 410 would be nice too .

Good luck Scott and happy hunting .  I wonder how the man Dick Cheney shot is doing now?
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

Bill Johnson

Scott
Have you checked out S.I.R or Le Barons?  I know right SIR has a model 870 on for about $400.00 which apparently is quite a reasonable deal.

www.sirmailorder.com is obviously the site for SIR.

Bill
Bill

Scott

 Thanks for the input guys  :). I'm still really undecided. I know what I want but I'm starting to wonder if its practical.
  Bill, that site has some great prices. I took a quick look through and saw some great deals. I'll give it a better looking over tomorrow.
  What do you guys think of Mossberg? I've been looking at them and they seems to be a good gun for the price.
Thanks.

Minnesota_boy

I've had a Mossberg pump 12 ga. for nearly 40 years.  It isn't the prettiest shotgun ever built nor is it the best shooting gun I've ever shot, but it is quite serviceable and has shot many grouse and ducks.  I find that my (cheap) side-by-side double really works good for wing shooting ducks, but I sure miss that third shot some times.  The pump must have a plug in the magazine when shooting ducks as we are limited to 3 rounds.  Unplugged it will hold 7 (yes, seven) rounds.
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UNCLEBUCK

I have a 12 gauge mossberg pump and its all camo and very lightweight ,about 6 years old and never had a problem with it ever except one time I got a 10 gauge shell stuck in it , kicks like a mule all the time.  Use to take the plugs out when sneaking up on potholes and wait for all the ducks to dive and go down and then when they started coming back up to the surface it sounded like a war zone . Dont do that anymore either  :(   One time I looked over at my cousin standing next to me and the end of his barrel looked like a torn pop can , got a little dirt ball in it when we were crawling up the bank .
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

CHARLIE

I agree with Tom on having a 12 guage shotgun. I want to get the maximum amount of buckshot in the air that I can.

I also prefer a pump.  I've seen my hunting buddy knock down several triples over the years and you can't do that with a double barrel. Of course, I was doing good to just knock down one duck at a time.

Why not take a look at Remington, Winchester and Ithaca?  They make some mighty fine guns. Also, like Tom suggested, you really don't need brand new. There are a lot of fine used guns out there. My son bought an old "Ted Williams" 12 guage pump and he's taken many ducks, grouse, pheasant, turkey and deer with it. It usually ain't the gun, it's the guy behind it. I like Mossberg too.

Buy a used gun and use the money you save on college. When you graduate and get that dream job, then celebrate and buy yourself a new one.
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

gary

I do a lot of duck hunting(almost every day that they are in season here). I have 2 mossbergs 500"s I would not own another one.  Take a hold of the forarm on a pump and you can almost turn it clear around the barrel. Those brownings and other expensive guns are nice but after spending that kind of money on a gun I would be afraid to take it hunting and getting it all scratched up. I use a remington 870 express super magnum now. it cost $250.00 new. I have dropped this gun in the swamp picked it up poured the water out of the barrell and started shooting. I also put the gun in the bottom of the boat throw decoys on top of it sometimes there is 2 or 3 inches of water in the bottom of the boat. Also this gun lets me shoot 2.75, 3 and 3.5 inch shells.

SwampDonkey

Quote from: CHARLIE on August 22, 2006, 01:20:32 AM
I agree with Tom on having a 12 guage shotgun. I want to get the maximum amount of buckshot in the air that I can.

If ya have the shoulder for it, why not a 10 guage instead? Then ya can go hunt goose. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

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Bro. Noble

Nothing wrong with having more than one gun ;)  If you really like the looks of that side by side,  you could get it and hang it on the wall.  Most hunters spend a lot more time looking at their guns and talking about them than they do shooting them anyway :D :D

I used to hunt and trap shoot quite a lot.  I had an old Ithica 12 ga pump that I quail hunted with and did well with cause when I threw it up to my shoulder,  it was pointing where I was looking.  When I started trap shooting,  the other guys kinda looked down on my cheap gun with it's modified choke even though I did pretty well with it.  As I could afford them,  I bought a 101 Winchester O/U and a modle 12 Winchester.  The others approved of these guns,  but I could always win more with the old Ithica.  That was a long time ago and I no longer have the modle 12 nor the 101,  but I still have the Ithica.

The point is,  get a gun that points where you are looking when you put it to your shoulder.

I agree with the used gun suggestions.  My SIL wanted a Marlin lever action 30/30 for a brush gun.  My daughter asked me to help her find one.  We went to walmarts,  where he had suggested,  but even my daughter without knowing anything about guns or wood thought the new ones were cheap looking.  We visited a few pawn shops and gun stores and almost every one had at least one Marlin lever action.  All of them were better looking than the new ones and more reasonably priced.  We bought one for about half the price of the new one that had beautiful wood and was chambered for .35 Rem. wich is a much better cartridge for brush hunting.  The older guns are often much higher in qualith.  The checkering is higher quality.  the wood is much higher quality,  and there are likely to be more machined rather than stamped metal parts.

I always liked the looks of a side by side double especially with exposed hammers,  but I never could hit a DanG thing with one :D :D
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Raphael

Quote from: Bro.  Noble on August 22, 2006, 09:56:04 AM
The point is,  get a gun that points where you are looking when you put it to your shoulder.

Amen Bro. Noble!!!
  Best way to choose a bird gun is pick a spot on the wall and swing the gun up to your shoulder.  If the gun feels funny when moving or isn't pointed at that spot when it gets into position then it's not 'your gun'.

  I used to deer hunt every year at a gun club for the insanely wealthy (anyone who drives a Rolls or Bentley up a dirt road to the gun club has more dollars than sense)... None of the members hunted deer so the employees and some of their 'family members' got permission to.  I saw a lot of really nice $2500+ side by side shot guns and heard them plenty when they were having a pheasant or duck "hunt".
  Joke among us poor folk was they had a club rule you had to shoot each bird twice cause you'ld sit on a deer stand and hear them cutting loose with both barrels in rapid succession all day long.  After a good 200+ rounds there'd be a dozen or so dead pheasants at the most...

  Only pump guns I ever used are Ithica's Deerslayer (12ga) and the Deerslayer II (20ga), they are a very good guns for the price and I suspect I'd be happy with a smooth bore version.  I've got a hand me down belgian grade Browning 16ga that functions execptionally well as long as you remember to ignore the bead on the polychoke, it's slightly twisted so you miss to the right if you use it beyond 20 yards.
  Best bird/trap gun I ever used was an L.C.Smith side by side, the two barrels created a shallow U that made sighting almost automatic, it's only gun I ever hit single shot doubles with.  Unfortunately it's one of those $1200-2500 guns and it went to my Uncle when time came to divide up my Grandfather's collection and he or my Aunt sold it for the collectors value.   >:(

Quote
I always liked the looks of a side by side double especially with exposed hammers,  but I never could hit a DanG thing with one :D :D

  My MIL has a beauty hanging over the fireplace... Looks real good there.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Don_Papenburg

My cousin gave me his side by side to do a little huntin. He never came back to get it . must be five years now .  Think it might have something to do with the fact that if the safty is on and you pull the trigger it will discharge as you are pulling off the safty. I make sure it is unloaded indoors. 

Tom , I have a buddy that likes a pump to get a lot of shot in the air .  Went hunting field chicken one day . We stalked a cock for a couple of miles in fence lines and across tracks and creeks. Every time that thing would fly he scared him three times . He had invested nine shells  on that bird .  When it got up by me I had my dads single shot 20 . Blasted that chicken from the hip ,droped it ,one bb in the head.   That makes for some good razing . I keep telling him to only put one shell in that gun at a time .
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Corley5

My favorite ruffed grouse gun is a sawed off to just legal 12 gauge Springfield pump that I bought at a pawn shop for 40 bucks.  Just point and shoot 8) 8) 8)
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Norm

Don's story reminded me of the time I went hunting with my brother down in MO for doves. He kept telling me how hard to hit they were and such so I was a little nervous as pheasants are a much bigger target up here. First bunch we spooked up I shot and got two of them with the first barrel. He looked at me kind of puzzled and I said "what you don't shoot two at a time down here". Never let him forget it. :D

hiya

When I moved to Md. a few years back. I had to use a shotgun for deer. All I had was a old Baker 12 ga. side by. It didn't throw slugs too good. My wife was up home visiting her brother and came back with a Mosburg 500 with a slug barrow. I shot a few deer with. Dead on at 160 yards.I thing I would use it back in Pa. for deer in some of the brush I used to hunt in.
Richard
RichardinMd.

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