A Slight Mod

[Magicman]

LOGRITES have roll pins to limit the range of movement of the hooks, and if 'properly' used should never wear/break, but 'properly' is the key word.  Anyway, I occasionally have to replace some roll pins, that is until now.


 
Roll pins removed.


 
¼" X 1½" grade 8 bolts e/w lock nuts.


 
Installed


 
And tightened.


 
An example of some of the removed roll pins.  Bet that it will not happen again.  

On edit:  I forgot to mention that I did both of my 48's and both of the 60's.  Total for 8 bolts & nuts: $2.82.

[Old Greenhorn]

I love having those roll pins in there, it is the difference between a high quality, well designed tool and... all the others. They have saved my knuckles more times than I can count. But it looks like you used bigger diameter screws that the roll pins so that means you altered the range of motion on the hook a bit more. Will that have an effect on function? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Tacotodd]

OGH, little if any from my practical research. By that I mean that it’s not going to limit how close the hook will close & the back of the hook always hits the main structure anyway, so why not!?

[Magicman]

But it looks like you used bigger diameter screws that the roll pins so that means you altered the range of motion on the hook a bit more.

Nope, the ¼" roll pins were replaced with ¼" bolts.  No difference.

No @Tacotodd, the hook movement in each direction is limited by the roll pins, (now bolts) not the main structure.

[Tacotodd]

MM, it’s been a few days (weeks ) since I’ve used mine so I was reliant upon my faulty memory  but life (or lack of) could always be worse

[Old Greenhorn]

OGH, little if any from my practical research. By that I mean that it’s not going to limit how close the hook will close & the back of the hook always hits the main structure anyway, so why not!?

Well Todd, it's exactly as MM said, that rear pin keeps the hook from swinging back too far and getting near the handle shaft. The first moment I picked up a LogRite and realized these folks are more than on the ball. It may sound like exaggeration, but I spent many years designing things for others to build and use, spending countless hours considering each detail and how to enhance function, reliability, or buildability (my word). So a detail like this tells we somebody put in the same kind of care. adding those holes adds cost because you either drill all the holes in those plates before welding then deal with alignment issues or put the holes in after welding adding another operation. SO the designer has to weigh the balance between cost and function and decide if the cost is worth the outcome. I am glad he put those holes in. I consider those pins a wear part that need replacing periodically from the beating they take when you jam the hook into and log and other daily use. Again, the design allows for easy replacement and they cost pennies. I'll be curious to see how MM's mod works out over time. The screws will likely transfer more of the shock load to the clevis plates and could oblong the holes. Not likely, but will be interesting to see over time.
 On my old hook I can't tell you how many times I picked it up by the haft around the joint, stood it up and had that hook swing down and smash my fingers. It hurts like the dickens. Can't do that with a logrite. The tool has other subtle yet extremely fundamental advantages over the run of the mill stuff. I'd never buy anything else.
 I have always admired what I call 'elegant' designs. That doesn't mean they are complex and fancy, but just the opposite, they have reduced the desired functions to the simplest possible number of components with the least production cost, that work better than other competing designs and are easily repairable.

[Okrafarmer]

I didn't think about it, but I must have lost a roll pin out of my Peavey. Maybe that's why the hook keeps getting stuck on the pick point.

[Tam-i-am]

I didn't think about it, but I must have lost a roll pin out of my Peavey. Maybe that's why the hook keeps getting stuck on the pick point.

sounds like it.

[Okrafarmer]

I didn't think about it, but I must have lost a roll pin out of my Peavey. Maybe that's why the hook keeps getting stuck on the pick point.

sounds like it.

Yeah, I confirmed today, both my roll pins are gone. I need to drill out the remnants and replace. I think I'll do as Magic Man did.

[Magicman]

No, do not drill it out, use a flat punch and tap it out.

[Okrafarmer]

No, do not drill it out, use a flat punch and tap it out.

Ok, I'll see if I can find a punch. 

[Old Greenhorn]

There are 4 basic reasons for using a roll pin in any given design. First, the roll pin (actually called s 'spring pin' holds itself in as the hole is smaller than the pin free diameter so the pin has to compress when driven into the hole and will stay put. The second is that a spring pin is hollow and has some 'give' to act as a tiny shock absorber when struck axially. The third is that it is easily driven out and replaced. Forth is, to press in a solid pin one would need to drill and ream a very precise hole for a 'press fit tolerance' which is more expensive in the manufacturing process. A roll pin hole can be done with just a good quality drill. (Incidentally, these are some of the many things I see when I look at how Kevin designs things and why I really admire how they build their products.)

 Notwithstanding Lynn's experience and his application 'fix', if and when mine wear out I will just replace with SS roll pins. They are intended to take that shock of the hook swinging in hard and fail over time, rather than have that shock transferred into another part of the assembly that would not be so cheap and easy to replace. If I were going to use a bolt, I would prefer either aluminum or a cheap soft steel and hope it failed before other components. I am running 3 different LogRite cant hooks and peavys now and have yet to see an issue. YMMV

[Magicman]

There are a couple of basic reasons that you overlooked or failed to mention.  From a production viewpoint the roll pin is fast to install and cost wise, there is no comparison.  My cost was $2.82 and roll pins are ¢¢.  It would simply be a wise business decision with Logrite.

I had already replaced mine several times with roll pins so I opted for a final fix.

[Old Greenhorn]

Yes, quite right MM. In fact I could add other reasons for roll pins as a design choice. If you look at your first post and the photo of the removed pins you can see they failed just as designed and were easily replaced as intended. Now given your usage it makes sense to try something different and you should go a very long way with those bolts, but you are not "an average guy".

[Okrafarmer]

Yes, quite right MM. In fact I could add other reasons for roll pins as a design choice. If you look at your first post and the photo of the removed pins you can see they failed just as designed and were easily replaced as intended. Now given your usage it makes sense to try something different and you should go a very long way with those bolts, but you are not "an average guy".

On the other hand, average guys tend to have bolts and nuts lying around handy, but not a package of assorted size roll pins. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Well I must not be average then. C-clips, e-clips, cotter pins, roll pins, dowel pins,, woodruff keys, o-rings, I keep assorted box kits of all of them. I just never seem to have the exact right size I need.

[Magicman]

Note that I used grade 8 bolts and lock nuts, same as Logrite uses on the pivot bolt.

[Walnut Beast]

Note that I used grade 8 bolts and lock nuts, same as Logrite uses on the pivot bolt.

They didn’t use grade 8 on mine 

 

[Magicman]

When I looked back at my pivot bolt head I see that it has 3 marks and is a Grade 5.  Grade 8 has 6 marks.

My mistake.