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Author Topic: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL  (Read 3780 times)

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Offline Brad_bb

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White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« on: August 19, 2019, 12:33:09 AM »
Some of you may have seen my responses in the past regarding carpenter bees and softwoods.....well now it's worse.

Back in 2016, built a large timberframe and sided it with 12" white pine board and batten.  Looked great.  I did seek advice about using White Pine as siding here on the forum and from a few other timberframers.  The concern was really about rot, but no one ever mentioned carpenter bees.  The following spring carpenter bees bored 1/2" holes under the eaves, and in some of the trim around the ovehead doors.  They were so prolific that we decided we had two choices, have to pay to spray every spring in perpetuity, or remove all the siding and trim and re-side in hardie board.  We weren't going to do it for a few years though.  This week I took a walk around the building and found more damage this time from a woodpecker or several, apparently pecking to find carpenter bee larvae that had escaped our previous efforts.  This is what they did in a very short time.  The moral of the story is that you should not use softwood for  exterior use, unless you live far enough north that carpenter bees are not an issue.  Where I'm from in IL, there are no carpenter bees.  This building was built in Indianapolis, just 3 hours south, but in the range of carpenter bees.


 

 

   The carpenter bees must have bored holes for the eggs under the lip of the window sill trim as there was no visible holes on the outside or top.  The wood pecker tested the wood and can hear the hollowness of the bee larvae tunnel in the wood.  They then set about pecking their way to the grub.  I doubt the bees would attack hardwood, and they definitely won't be able to damage Hardie board.  Costly mistake.  
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2019, 12:41:03 AM »
Additionally, the carpenter bees will go after softwood framing lumber.  What that means is any wood framed pole barn or shed down there using manufactured wood trusses will get bored into especially near the open ends of buildings.  Horse arenas, animal shelters, open stall barns etc, get attacked and compromised.  I don't think paint will stop them either.  Maybe there might be some coating, but I am not aware of one, at least not a permanent solution.

The bees start holes on the underside, or on a face that is protected from rain. They bore a perfect half inch up to 4 feet long.  They are smart enough that they can bore in a 1x2 without the tunnel breaking out anywhere along the way.



Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2019, 02:04:05 AM »
Where I'm building my cabin, there are no carpenter bees but plenty of woodpeckers that love to build nesting holes in all the cabins.  My cabin is going to be covered in Hardi plank!
John Sawicky

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Online Don P

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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2019, 07:06:08 AM »
We have them fairly bad, I need to rebuild the entry porch, in locust this time. I did a wrap around porch a few years ago in EWP, painted with kilz primer and then a couple of top coats, a pretty tough finish. I could see them looking it over but haven't seen any holes yet. I do not see them boring in places other than the exterior faces and edges of buildings, I think framing is low risk.

One reason I used white pine for my shop was the powderpost damage in another barn here built of hardwood. It seems if there is food or shelter someone wants to move in.
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Offline A-z farmer

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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2019, 08:23:31 PM »
We built a 40x200 pole barn in 1957 out of hemlock and we used 2x10 for the trusses
A few years ago during the winter half of the roof collapsed but it was full of hay .
We could not believe all the holes in the trusses from the wood bees and we think that along with snow and wind caused it to fail.We used tongue and groves hemlock for siding and keep it painted and the wood bees have never touched it.
My uncle built a house out of red wood in the early 1970s because it was rot resistant .Today it looks like Swiss cheese with all the wood boring holes ,and he does not believe in any chemicals to stop them .
Zeke 

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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2019, 08:05:33 AM »
Both of my friends cabins in Tenn are full of them.
Badminton rackets, .22 snake shot and PB blaster although fun hardly dent them.
I had them under my eaves until I used Sherwin Williams Super deck semi transparent stain. That seems to slow them down some but not completely.
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Offline ESFted

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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2019, 12:30:54 PM »
Something like this will help keep down the numbers.   Easy to make and it works for me.



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Offline Brad_bb

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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2019, 12:49:32 PM »
I've built traps and hung them up.  They catch a lot of flies, some wasps, and occasionally   a few carpenter bees. I've sprayed. Still new holes appear.   Traps and chemical sprays are only temporary or partial solutions. Best to build it out of something they won't attack.  They haven't touched any of my hardwood- Ash or oak.  They also won't tough Hardi board.  
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Online Nebraska

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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2019, 03:16:27 PM »
 Just curious, are they susceptible to borate treatment?  I don't think they are much of a problem this far north, so I guess I will see if they bother with my Ponderosa Pine board siding I'm putting on several sheds.. Used to have a woodpecker whose favorite morning  pastime was to peck the devil out of a metal roof vent, when we had a new roof installed  I put  on ridge venting.  He went away.

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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2019, 05:44:39 PM »
Since they don't ingest the wood borate has no effect on them. Stain isn't going to do much if anything. A paint film that is tougher than their jaws will provide a physical barrier, which is why they avoid many hardwoods, I have had them in tulip poplar.

Generally they go for edges under an overhang, obviously not always. They avoid thinner siding edges like bevel or dolly varden patterns where they will raise havoc on 4/4 roughsawn edges next door. There is not enough room for a gallery in the thinner edge, the old timers did have a trick or two. They had heavy coats of oil based lead paint too :D
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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2019, 07:35:33 AM »
 Thank you, I went back and read life cycle data on carpenter bees, my bad I thought the larval stages may have used wood as part of a food source, It didn't occur to me mom provided the meals and built the house, so she doesn't consume the wood at all. just  remodel.  I just don't ever remember reading/hearing much about them and since I don't run into them here well  yesterday wasn't a waste I learned, which is a great reason to be here. 

Offline D L Bahler

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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2019, 09:57:44 AM »
Don you answered my question before I got the chance to ask it. Around here there are a ton of old barns sided with spruce shiplap (maybe it's fir, I don't remember) This stuff was typically painted, but even when the paint wears off it lasts ages with no bugs. I was curious as to how this might be. But as you point out, there's not enough material there for them to build their nests, so they leave it alone.

I perk up every time this question about carpenter bees comes up, I'm always looking for solutions to the problem. 

Is white pine more susceptible to their attacks than other softwoods? Would fir or spruce, say in exposed exteriors walls of a log or solid timber building, fair even slightly better? 

Offline MAD MARK

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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2019, 10:57:01 AM »
I've been spraying my new outside pine structures with BASF Termidor. I know its formulated for Termites, but is also a useful inspectricide. I've noticed the Bore Bees dont touch the wood after it's been sprayed. Also works well for mud dobbers and paper wasps.

It's also not noticable after dried on painted and stained surfaces. Dont be shocked by the price though it's worth it.

Termidor SC - Termidor Termite Treatment Spray - Fast, Free Shipping | DoMyOwn.com

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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2019, 12:05:42 PM »
Interesting, sounds like it is acting as a repellant. Drione dust is one of the traditional ways of killing them after nesting by dusting in the holes, a pyrethrin it is a nerve poison and not a repellant. It has fallen out of favor somewhat, it can take out any bees, your pollinators, which are in trouble so don't put it anywhere but in the hole.
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2019, 08:19:30 AM »
Not sure if they're around here, but most likely they are, just haven't noticed!

I like your trap design!

ESFted, just wondering if any kind of bait or attractant would help you to get MORE bees?
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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2019, 10:33:20 AM »
I have a barn that you couldn't walk around in the bee season.  Thousands of bees.  Several years ago I put up several bee traps and started putting at dent in them.  This year we started spraying with Hatchet.  That made a noticeable difference.
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Offline bluthum

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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2019, 12:43:17 PM »
I've sided many structures with short leaf pine over the last 43 years and never seen a carp bee in any of it. Both b&b and lap. All the siding I've used for myself  has never been painted or had other treatment, there is some 15 feet from where I sit [it's outside of course] that was put up around 1980 that is sound as new.

What I have experienced is them nesting in eastern red cedar and western cedar , even fascia boards inches from the pine.  Go figure.

Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2019, 01:32:39 PM »
Have had a few in the fascia on my shop
EWP siding and trim.
No problems with the siding.
It has several coats of stain on it.
When at Jake's Last April I never saw so may carpenters without tool belts.
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Offline hedgerow

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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2019, 02:12:40 PM »
I am in eastern Nebraska and had never heard of carpenter bees until this summer I went on a AC service call just a few miles from my house at a cabin that had cedar siding and all the trim was ceder to. He had a bunch of those traps showed in the picture. I could believe the damage that building had. Usually around here termites are the problem we have to watch out for. 

Offline 35chevypu

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Re: White Pine Board and Batten FAIL
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2020, 07:29:54 PM »
a bb gun and beer at in the afternoon teaches you aim and leading your target. carpenter bees are a real nuisance but can turn into fun



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