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Author Topic: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install  (Read 4219 times)

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Offline boonesyard

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2021, 11:38:42 PM »
@boonesyard  Is that Clearvue system?  If so what model?  

@Andries what is the HP of your blower motor?

YellowHammer that is quite the system there.  I need to use something other than a shop vacuum! :D  Someday!  

I've gotta decide whether to use an old Grizzley 2 bagger and replace the bags with filters and/or old add a cyclone.  Actually I gotta get off my butt and do something! ;D
Yes, it's a Clearvue Max. 5hp and 16" impeller. I looked at Oneida as well, hard. Had a few issues with the salesman when I was dealing with Oneida, but they make a great product.  Saved a few bucks going this was, but i didn't give up anything in performance.  Just got everything finished up today and and tried it a bit, it really SUCKS 🙃 
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lots of support equipment and not enough time

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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2021, 12:10:34 AM »
You guys have some nice systems and tools.  I know what you mean about salesman at Oneida, I got tired of dealing with them, and went straight to the engineering manager.  Each salesman quoted me a different unit, different options, and different prices.  It was a clown show.  

Old greenhorn, I know what you are saying about the garbage can separator.  I bought one from somewhere online and it wouldnt fit any of my garbage cans.  So I never used it, and I just threw it away.  Just like your buddy, I thought it was a gimmick but it sounds like I missed the boat on that one.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it wont roll, its not a log; its still a piece of tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not pieces of trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, theyre burned, and you cant fix them.  Dont burn the cookies.

Offline scsmith42

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2021, 01:58:26 PM »
Robert, that is one sweet setup! In hindsight, I wish that I would have designed my system with an external dump and a rotary airlock.  It sure beats a direct dump.

Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2021, 03:29:19 PM »
The more we use this system, the more the pain of installation fades and the more we can appreciate the extra airflow and suction.  For example, the segmented track of our straight line rip saw, which is oil lubricated, always had sawdust stick and pack on it.  Imagine a bulldozer track that gets caked with mud.  So every week or so, we had to take time out to clean the packed sawdust off the track, which was a pain.  Now, not only does the sawdust not pack, it actually gets cleaned off.  It's never worked better.  

Same thing with our sawmill, I haven't had to clean out under it since we installed the system.  Normally I have to clean out the residual sawdust very week or two.

  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it wont roll, its not a log; its still a piece of tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not pieces of trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, theyre burned, and you cant fix them.  Dont burn the cookies.

Offline samandothers

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2021, 08:25:25 PM »
Thanks boonesyard.  I lean toward Clearvue  for a cyclone.  Very nice systems one and all. 

Offline Mossy Chariot

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2021, 11:31:57 AM »
Great looking system Robert (@yellowhammer).  Having designed and installed industrial air pollution control systems for over 40 years, I know the hardest part is layout, sizing, and balancing the ductwork.  Yours looks great!!  Did the ductwork come from Oneida?  Looks like it was prefab sections.  Assuming you ordered it that way, you did a great job of laying out the length of each piece.  I know there is a lot of flexibility when connecting to equipment with flex hose but it still has to be pretty close.
Tony B
LT35HD, Riehl Edger, Woodmaster 725 Planer/Molder, Nyle 53 Drying Kiln, T750 Bobcat, Kubota 3450, Wallenstein Skidding Winch, Vermeer BC1250 Chipper, Stihl 250 & 460, Can-Am Defender

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2021, 02:48:14 PM »
Thanks for the compliments.  No, we didn't' use the Oneida ductwork, I used a different company, Duct Incorporated, in Clemmons, NC, that had better quality pipe for about the same money.  They had a very experienced person for me to talk to, which is rare these days, a guy named Patrick Russell, Sales Manager, and they do a very quick turnaround.  It's an excellent company to deal with.  

We got lucky in that Patrick and I were able to work the lengths pretty close to full length, but they have a really cool telescoping adapter called a "Slip Joint" where I could cut a piece of standard pipe about the right length, several inches long or short, then slide the slip joint section on it, adjust it to the correct right length and snap the clamp on it.  The clamp has a big O ring that fits over the edge of the joint, so it forms an air tight seal and can be moved and adjusted any time later.  It's a great system, and actually easier there cutting and sealing conventional duct.  It means things can be easily adjusted later if a new machine is added, or changed position.

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it wont roll, its not a log; its still a piece of tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not pieces of trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, theyre burned, and you cant fix them.  Dont burn the cookies.

Offline farmfromkansas

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2021, 06:45:14 PM »
I tried to deal with Oneida, and couldn't even get through their phone system.  Got lucky and found a 3hp Dust Cop at a community college that they were selling, and found it had never been hooked up. Still had to replace the motor, as it turned out to be 3 phase.  But makes me a great system, with 6" pipe all over the shop, what is really great is I can plane a whole pile of lumber with no dust on the floor, and the shop stays mostly clean. I have added a over the table saw dust hood, and increased the connection size from 4" to 6" on as many machines as possible, except the planer, as it does a good job with 4".  My little system doesn't even come close to comparing to YH's but I am happy with it. One thing, put my vent up on the outside of the shop, about doubled my suction compared to running through the filter back into the shop, and cleaner air as well.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2021, 04:32:01 AM »
I've been looking at the Festool dust collectors myself. Something compact, because I only worry about the stuff floating in the air. Planer chips I just sweep up. It's a bit premature at this stage, since I haven't got the shop up yet. With a wood stove for heat, you really have to get the dust out of the air, and for me that is mainly from sanding. That aerosolized fine dust can explode like cooking gas. :)

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/workshop/dust-collection/dust-extractors/111500-festool-ct-48-ac-hepa-dust-extractor-with-autoclean?item=ZT576761

and this add-on.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/workshop/dust-collection/parts-and-accessories/77011-festool-ct-cyclone-pre-separator?item=ZT204083
No amount of belief makes something a fact. James Randi

Offline farmfromkansas

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2021, 08:16:23 AM »
Swampdonkey, you might look at outside wood furnaces, have a neighbor who bought one for his shop, nice unit, has a blower on the combustion air, thing really burns well.  Keep the fire outside your shop.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2021, 09:21:21 AM »
I'm big proponent of exhausting air outside, no matter how much cold or hot air comes in to replace it.  I've had some internal systems and hated taking a sawdust bath whenever I had to change bags or bins.  Some of the places I work with have inside dust collection systems, and even though they are supposedly HEPA systems, there is always caked fine dust around them, on the rafters or floor, indicting they are not stopping all the dust

Of course, sawdust is a fire hazard, and the finer it is, the worse it is.  

It's also a health hazard, and I've seen lots of professional woodworkers with the old "sawdust cough" as they tell me they don't need a dust collection system.

Having a good system also makes for a much cleaner work environment, as every bucket of sawdust that goes outside into a dumpster is one less buck of sawdust I have to sweep up inside.    

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it wont roll, its not a log; its still a piece of tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not pieces of trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, theyre burned, and you cant fix them.  Dont burn the cookies.

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2021, 09:46:00 AM »
I've been looking at the Festool dust collectors myself. Something compact, because I only worry about the stuff floating in the air. Planer chips I just sweep up. It's a bit premature at this stage, since I haven't got the shop up yet. With a wood stove for heat, you really have to get the dust out of the air, and for me that is mainly from sanding. That aerosolized fine dust can explode like cooking gas. :)

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/workshop/dust-collection/dust-extractors/111500-festool-ct-48-ac-hepa-dust-extractor-with-autoclean?item=ZT576761

and this add-on.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/workshop/dust-collection/parts-and-accessories/77011-festool-ct-cyclone-pre-separator?item=ZT204083
Man, those Festool's are pricey for their capacity. As I am now well into the entry level I am learning a lot as I go. Putting dedicated hoods on the machines help a lot, but it is hard to get it all. General collection for things like a sanding bench requires a lot ore thought and is less effective unless you get really fancy. Yesterday I put a dust hood behind the small stuff I was sanding and it worked 'just ok' and for larger things like table tops it is really hard to suck dust out of the air. What DOES work well is attaching a vacuum directly to the dust port on the individual tool, then combining that with a general hood for anything that escapes. You still won't get it all by it greatly reduces any flying dust.  


 
In the photo above you can see the white bench on the loft, that is my sanding bench and the chimney passes close by with the stove nearly directly below. The chimney gets covered in dust (well, up to recently when I added improvements) and I just blow it off if I notice it, it is not a problem. The stove gets some too and if it is left too long, the dust turns brown, then black. I blow that off when I notice it too. I thought about dust when I put in the stove, but I have 17' ceilings and am just one guy working, so it really hasn't worked out to be an issue. Now with the system coming together my 'general dust conditions' have improved tremendously and I am not even 'there' yet.
 BTW, When I bought the planer the seller threw in a old 110v 1/2 small roll around dust collector which I didn't really need. Man that thing is the cat's pajamas for my shop because the planer and joiner are down on the floor, so I just use the small one. I have found it saves me a LOT of cleanup time, plus the planer head doesn't clog or re-cut chip, better boards. It only take a minute to roll it in, hook it on, and then another minute to put it away. Much easier than sweeping bending and picking up. For the summer months I may make a cover for outside the window and put it outside blowing into a garden trailer to save unload time. That is, if I have a decent planeing job.
 You may have noticed the pre-collector in the photos on my thread and I ma really pleased with how that is working out and it is easy the shove a hand truck under it and roll it right out the door to the compost pile.
 Whatever you do, I'd suggest taking your time thinking it through. Dust collectors are a much more important and expensive consideration than I ever thought. This is the one rare project where I am building it with just a general idea as I go to see how it responds and functions, then adjusting my plan. That is my biggest take-away from this experience. (Oh yeah, and get a remote switch!) 
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
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OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2021, 10:28:16 AM »
Guys, my operation is small potatoes, if I were in your shoes I'd do the same as you're doing. I'm not trying to suggest you do otherwise. But I don't kick up huge volumes of dust that this Festool system can't do an ample job on. Your scale of operations is different than mine. :) Definitely going to have my stove indoors, firewood to. Have for 30 years in my old shop. Shop is 20' x 24' x 8' ceiling. Quick and easy to heat with a little stove. Maybe 2 cord wood. My old shop used 1 cord of wood, narrower shop.
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Offline alan gage

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2021, 10:38:13 AM »
I've been looking at the Festool dust collectors myself. Something compact, because I only worry about the stuff floating in the air. Planer chips I just sweep up. It's a bit premature at this stage, since I haven't got the shop up yet. With a wood stove for heat, you really have to get the dust out of the air, and for me that is mainly from sanding. That aerosolized fine dust can explode like cooking gas. :)

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/workshop/dust-collection/dust-extractors/111500-festool-ct-48-ac-hepa-dust-extractor-with-autoclean?item=ZT576761

and this add-on.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/workshop/dust-collection/parts-and-accessories/77011-festool-ct-cyclone-pre-separator?item=ZT204083
About a year ago I added an Oneida Dust Deputy and was very surprised at how well it works for something that looks so cheesy. I use it in conjunction with my shop vac (with bag installed) for all my sanding and track saw usage.
I added a lower profile Dust Stopper under my miter saw bench with a dedicated small shop vac and that works nice as well. I don't think it's as good as the Dust Deputy but good enough.
I've been using my shop vac in conjunction with my ROS for years and would never go back. Adding the little cyclone inline makes it more of a hassle to move around but keeps the shop vac bag from filling up, especially in conjunction with the track saw.
Enough fine dust will still get through to eventually plug your shop vac filter, which is why I like having the bag in the shop vac.
Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

Offline alan gage

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2021, 10:43:59 AM »
About a year ago I added an Oneida Dust Deputy and was very surprised at how well it works for something that looks so cheesy. I use it in conjunction with my shop vac (with bag installed) for all my sanding and track saw usage.
I added a lower profile Dust Stopper under my miter saw bench with a dedicated small shop vac and that works nice as well. I don't think it's as good as the Dust Deputy but good enough.
I've been using my shop vac in conjunction with my ROS for years and would never go back. Adding the little cyclone inline makes it more of a hassle to move around but keeps the shop vac bag from filling up, especially in conjunction with the track saw.
Enough fine dust will still get through to eventually plug your shop vac filter, which is why I like having the bag in the shop vac.
Alan
Just a comment on how well just a basic shop vac connected to a ROS can do:
I'm sensitive to cedar dust and my nose will start to run almost immediately with any hand sanding or table saw cutting. But I used to build cedar strip canoes and it wasn't uncommon for me to spend 3 hours non-stop sanding a hull with my ROS connected to shop vac. I could do that with no respirator or mask and had no issue whatsoever. When done myself and my clothes would be clean and there was not sign of dust floating in the air. Not saying it's perfect but pretty darn good.
Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

Online ron barnes

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2021, 07:52:41 AM »
I believe that venting to the outside would be the best but I cannot do it.  I purchased an air filter from Grizzly and it has helped a lot with the fine dust.  I turn it on when I enter the shop and turn it onto a timer for a couple of hours when I leave the shop.  There doesn't seem to be anywhere near as much fine dust now.  Also I use a dust collector hooked to individual machines.

Offline farmfromkansas

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2021, 08:42:46 AM »
I have a Bosch ROS, bought the good anti vibration model, has both a 5 and 6" pad, and the dust port is just right for my vac to plug into.  Always use the vac when sanding, and it makes a huge difference.  Also have a belt sander that works with it, but have not used it since getting a wide belt sander. Hate to think how much I have in dust collection, considerable amount when you add up everything, but better than dusty lungs.  Be nice if YH would post the cost of his setup, blow your mind compared to a little old woodshop setup.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2021, 02:34:22 PM »
Be nice if YH would post the cost of his setup, blow your mind compared to a little old woodshop setup.
$20K+ got the whole mess bought, shipped, assembled, installed and operational.  That includes concrete, footing, aftermarket high rise rack, stand, cyclone, clean out hopper, airlock, blower motor, switches, electrical panels, crate after crate of stainless snap lock ductwork, and a bunch of other stuff.  
That is not counting our labor, which would have been about a couple weeks, not including the initial design phase for the dust collector and the ductwork.  
It was not a real do it yourself project, but we got through it.  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it wont roll, its not a log; its still a piece of tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not pieces of trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, theyre burned, and you cant fix them.  Dont burn the cookies.

Offline DR_Buck

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2021, 02:51:48 PM »


I'm not a fan (no pun intended) of blowing my dust collector outside.   Yes, it makes cleanup/emptying easier, but it also blows my conditioned shop air outside.    I have year round heat and AC in my shop and at 750 to 1200 CFM I'm not going to try and condition outside air.    

Aside form the initial cost of around $2k for my collector I've gone the low budget route and it works well for my single person operation. 





















Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
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Offline Walnut Beast

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Re: New Whole Shop Outside Cycle Dust Collector Install
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2021, 05:21:00 PM »
Be nice if YH would post the cost of his setup, blow your mind compared to a little old woodshop setup.
$20K+ got the whole mess bought, shipped, assembled, installed and operational.  That includes concrete, footing, aftermarket high rise rack, stand, cyclone, clean out hopper, airlock, blower motor, switches, electrical panels, crate after crate of stainless snap lock ductwork, and a bunch of other stuff.  
That is not counting our labor, which would have been about a couple weeks, not including the initial design phase for the dust collector and the ductwork.  
It was not a real do it yourself project, but we got through it.  
Absolutely nice system and videos on it YH. If you want to do big boy things you got to spend some big boy money and you can make some big boy money 😜. No risk no goodies 😂


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