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Author Topic: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit  (Read 1543 times)

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Offline Jim1934

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Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« on: July 07, 2021, 10:03:07 AM »
A Utuber described gluing the ball bearing for the motor output shaft
into its housing to cure a sloppy fit.

 I am inspecting a similar unit for use on circle sawmill carriage drive.
The unit is from a Cub Cadet 1650, new to me, and I dont know its history.
I can wiggle the now free end of the output shaft and I either have a destroyed
inner race or a sloppy fit of outer race in its cavity. Haven't got that far to choose.

Purpose of post is too see if either is common.
Seems there is a very small chance this was never a press fit for alignment
purposes but that is a stretch.

Thanks, Jim

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2021, 10:05:15 AM »
Let me go out and look at one.
Isaiah 48:10

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2021, 03:01:14 PM »
Im sorry for the delay jim.  


The sundstrand 15 i have sitting here apart is off a deere 140 so it may be completely different.  But the output shaft and bearing are a nice tappy tappy tight fit.
Isaiah 48:10

Offline Jim1934

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Re: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2021, 09:11:48 PM »
Thanks- appreciate it. Hope $132 bearing is not shot. Perform autopsy tomorrow.

Offline Southside

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Re: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2021, 09:57:05 PM »
To answer your question about the glue.  Yes it is done with some high speed, press to fit, applications.  My moulder calls for use of Loctite bearing adhesive - I think 620 is the number but would have to check, and yes it works.  
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2021, 11:03:09 PM »
Mine has cylindrical roller bearings oriented axially around the shaft axis. Non tapered.


Is there a chance yours is tapered and shimmed to set the clearance space in a register or something like that? Sorta Timken style?
Isaiah 48:10

Offline Jim1934

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Re: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2021, 03:38:07 PM »
Mine has cylindrical roller bearings oriented axially around the shaft axis. Non tapered.


Is there a chance yours is tapered and shimmed to set the clearance space in a register or something like that? Sorta Timken style?
Mine are rollers and the bearing is tight in its housing.
Don't know if tapered but going to leave it as is.
Knocked out all the seals. Trying to find hyd repair kit. Get
lots of 'out of stock' or 'obsolete' returns.
Thanks for the lead on bearing. I thought it was ball. Still have the wiggle in the free end of shaft.


Offline Jim1934

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Re: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2021, 07:59:50 PM »
Mike- Please help again.

My gas engine runs in a direction opposite to the rotation direction required
 by the Sundstrand U hydro unit on a 1650 Cub Cadet.

Can gear pump be "reversed', so to speak ?
How will that affect auxiliary hydraulic ports used for power lifting, etc.
Not exited about driving input shaft from its other end. Very short shaft extension.

Thanks, Jim.


Offline Jim1934

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Running Sundstrand U hydro gear pump in reverse
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2021, 09:15:11 PM »
Using tranny from Cub Cadet 1650 to power sawmill carriage.
Kohler gas engine to be used to turn Sundstrand U hydro gear pump
rotates in opposite direction to what is required.

What are issues created by running pump "backwards" ?
Can gear pump be turned upside down?
Will axle forward now be reverse?
Will aux. hyd. ports used for options be affected?
Not excited to drive opposite end of pump input shaft.

Thanks very much. Jim.


Offline mike_belben

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Re: Running Sundstrand U hydro gear pump in reverse
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2021, 09:59:24 PM »
I dont think theyre birotational inputs.  I have a feeling the charge pump will be trying to push fluid down into the sump.  


Drive it from the back where the fan stub is if you have no choice.  The axle shafts wont care which direction, just move the lever.  Theyre infinitely variable forward and reverse output.  Some garden tractors limited the reverse speed but its in the linkages for safety and can be removed.  The pump itself can output equal speed in both directions.  Bolens was limited reverse and ford fairway mowers also. 
Isaiah 48:10

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2021, 10:02:14 PM »
I replied to your other thread.  In the future please try to keep them all in one place.  People will follow a single build thread just fine.  If you need to get a specific persons attention just use the bat signal.  Put an @ sign in front of their screen name and the editor will pop up with the names in blue. theyll get paged to the thread when you get it right. 
Isaiah 48:10

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2021, 07:19:19 AM »
Jim a mod deleted your duplicate thread and moved my post here.  Lets keep it all in one spot from here out.  Lemme know if you run into any issues.
Isaiah 48:10

Offline Jim1934

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Re: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2021, 06:20:38 PM »
Thanks Mike,
Have had the two halves of hyd. unit apart and back together twice. Did so to replace oil seals
and check overall condition.
Both times input shaft very hard to turn even with fastening bolts backed off 3/16 inches.
Guess I have assembled it incorrectly. Locating pins for the 3/16 round plates with all the slots
mate as they should. Roller bearing on input shaft free, as are needle bearings. Tried removing
gear pump cover and that didn't help.
Before I took it apart input shaft turned easily as one would expect. Tired of working on it,
will let it sit for a while. Will use input shaft stub if I get that far.


Offline DennisK

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Re: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2021, 08:53:28 PM »
You might need to make 2 precision ground shafts to align the pump together, usually go through opposing bolt holes.

Offline Jim1934

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Re: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2021, 01:22:35 PM »
Put it together, ran gear pump input at 1000 rpm CCW facing pump shaft
Output pinion of motor does not turn.
Have oil at filter.
Disconnected the jumper from aux. in/out and no sign of oil. Replaced.
Tightened nuts on drain tube , gear pump, and those holding hydro halves together.
7qts oil. Type U hydro.
Cub Cadet 1650.
Guessing speed too slow or air lock.
Help please.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2021, 06:18:51 PM »




Does your pump look like this?
Isaiah 48:10

Offline Jim1934

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Re: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2021, 08:03:46 PM »
yes

Offline DennisK

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Re: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2021, 08:15:34 PM »
Those 2 buttons look like they are depressed in the tow position. They might not get unstuck.

Offline Jim1934

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Re: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2021, 09:16:59 PM »
Mine does not have the buttons. just tiny holes. Thanks

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Sloppy fit of output bearing Sundstrand Hyd. unit
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2021, 09:52:02 PM »
Good eye. 

Thats my pump and its just for parts, i busted the output and bull gear.   Those tow valves will bypass fluid if theyre in the open position.  Next to them i have a square plug and a hex plug, there is a spring and ball in one of them to regulate charge pump PSI but i dont recall which.  I think the other port is for gauge tee to troubleshoot but its been a long time and my brain is foggy on all that. 


CCW looking at the shaft face is the correct rotation.  1000 rpm would be sufficient to creep the tractor along.  


Do you have hose fittings on the top front like mine?  I am assuming you still have the hystat in the rear axle housing for a fluid sump?  


You stroked the lever in the left to tilt the swash plate right?

Im not sure how different the exterior of a deere vs cub unit are.  
Isaiah 48:10


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