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Author Topic: Dozer choices  (Read 14210 times)

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Offline islandlogger

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Dozer choices
« on: November 18, 2012, 01:22:04 AM »
I'm shopping around for dozers and am looking for a bit of input. I've spent time on tracked skidders, mostly a FMC unit, but need something smaller with some versatility and a dozer fits the bill. I've got my eye on two units right now:
A  seventies TD8E Dresser with pretty fresh full out of frame engine rebuild and new undercarriage $15K

A (eighties?) John Deere 450C with moderate hours and good UC $11,500

Both units are equipped with winch etc, ready to work. I'm partial to John Deere, but have also heard really good things about the older TD8E Dressers, plus it's got a tad more umph to it...
I have local dealer support for both.
General logging terrain is flat land with minor grades, tree stands are thick (severely over stocked) and having a smaller dozer to snake around with is good, but also a lot of the timber is of size although it varies from job to job. Most lot's to be logged are anywhere from 5 to 40 acres with 10 and 20 acres being most common. There is often also "side work" available for a dozer (ponds, roads, general clearing etc)
I'd mostly like to hear about the pros and cons of TD8E vrs 350C from any/all experienced operators out there....

Safe

islandlogger


Offline beenthere

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2012, 01:30:20 AM »
How about the ease of hauling whichever from job to job?  That might enter into the equation and maybe not a killer either way for you.
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Offline islandlogger

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2012, 01:38:14 AM »
Easy hauls, short runs, and a good willing buddy with a trailer  :D

Offline mad murdock

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2012, 02:04:42 AM »
Do either of the machines mentioned have an arch on them? You will want one, makes the skidding a lot easier. Jd's are good machines but parts run more usually. Either machine have a 6 way blade on them? Definitely want a 6 way blade and an arch on the winch, you will have a very versatile machine.
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Offline islandlogger

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2012, 02:16:43 AM »
Both have 6 way blades, neither comes with a arch BUT i got another good and willing buddy with materials in stock and welder hot to trot to fabricate me a good'n...

Online g_man

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2012, 08:08:50 AM »
I have had good reliable luck with a TD7G. A little smaller frame and  cummins 239 engine but w/o turbo so less hp than big brother 8E. Simple and easy to work on machines. Komatsu has supported all my parts needs so far.

Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2012, 08:41:07 AM »
An Arch will also put extra stress on the final drives as well because you will be transferring weight to the back of the machine.... Some machines handle this wear and tear better than others.

Offline cutter88

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2012, 09:31:11 AM »
i agree with the statement about the arch... they r extremely hard on final drives especialy on a small machine like a 450..
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Offline Bobus2003

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2012, 10:04:33 AM »
7 Years ago i Dealt with a troublesome TD8.. Hated that machine.. seemed as though we were always doing Tranny and Clutch Work on it.. 6 years ago I bought my JD 550G, Havent had any big problems, but its gettin to where it needs to go in and have new brakes put in.

Offline giant splinter

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2012, 11:46:13 AM »
looks like you have done some homework on this subject and you are on the right track,if you are looking at the winch models they are equipped with with slightly heavier final drives. If you are thinking side work I would recommend finding a JD 450/550 or 555 with a detachable backhoe attachment and a detachable ripper then locate a mounting bracket and set up your arch with the winch and you will have a very useable rig for most of your tasks. This combo was available on the 450/550 dozers and 555 loaders, either way you go you will be getting the heaviest final drive configuration available for your applications. I had the JD 555 loader with detachable backhoe and ripper and it worked very well then traded if for a cat D4C dozer with the same set up. I think you will find a setup like this will keep you busy as far as side work and be very good for the logging operation as well. I preferred this configuration with a dozer but the dealers will tell you that more sold with the loader configuration, hope this  gives you some ideas to work with.
roll with it

Offline DDDfarmer

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2012, 12:39:02 PM »
I don't know about the newer dresser dozers but I have always been told that the older TD6-9-14-18 and such cost more to rebuild than an entire caterpillar tractor. And after fixing our international TD6 and Caterpillar D6 I would much rather fix the CAT.

I think you need to look at your local dealer/parts people to see where your support will be comming from if/when needed.
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Offline loggah

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2012, 05:54:02 PM »
The older 450's had a habit of the frame cracking where it is welded to the plate that bolts to the steering clutch housing. Make sure there are no cracks,as the next thing that cracks is the transmission housing,and make sure the bolts are tight also. Don
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Offline snowstorm

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2012, 06:02:53 PM »
The older 450's had a habit of the frame cracking where it is welded to the plate that bolts to the steering clutch housing. Make sure there are no cracks,as the next thing that cracks is the transmission housing,and make sure the bolts are tight also. Don
  what he said along with the cross beam if its a later c it will have the bigger cross beam    much better. the rear cross beam......round......will wear the hole in the track frame. it can all be fixed. just something to look for.

Offline islandlogger

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2012, 12:55:13 AM »
Thanks for the input thus far, I'm hearing more feed back on the John Deere side of things....not much Dresser users out there??
I'm leaning more toward the Deere, finding out a bit more on the machine and it's history. It's been maintained by the same local Equipment Mechanic for the past 25 years, in fact he just recently bought it from the owners to do some small jobs on his property and is now passing it on. Be nice to have that same mechanic on call that knows the machine inside and out. He said the previous owners were "weekend users" and in their 25 years of owning it only put 600 plus hours on it...they kept it maintained even when just settin around. I'll be going to check it out next week and spin the tracks around some land see how she feels.
Good points on the final drives with using arches. I also have access to a tow behind arch off the draw bar. All in all, I plan to baby this thing, but get her making money to! I do have a John Deere 310D back hoe that I've customized a bit into a decent logging machine, these two together ought to make a good team and having the ability to jump from one to the other will save some wear on tear all round...

Safe

-islandlogger

Offline MapleNut

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2012, 04:37:00 AM »
I have had a 1978 TD 8E dozer for about 10 years now. I have used it for making roads, pulling tree length wood up/down hills too steep for my Iron Mule, and other pushing work. It needed a U/C when I bought it. I haven't had any problems with it. I don't use it full time, mabye put 400-500 hours on it? I also have a JD 350 with a gafner loader and it has been ok, but is way smaller. The TD 8 seems built to take day in day out use-and it has  alot of hours-more than that vintage JD.  The powershift transmission and steering on the TD-8 is better than the 4 speed with reverser and dry clutch steering on my JD. 
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Offline Okrafarmer

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2012, 07:56:19 AM »
Somebody had to ask: You weren't interested in getting a Cat, such as D-3 or D-4?
No matter how conventional wisdom may fly in the face of radical thought, it's still the most popular type.

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Offline islandlogger

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2012, 10:32:45 AM »
Sure, I would love a d-4, but finding one in my area in decent shape seems to be just not happening. And, I've heard and heard and heard that if you do buy a cat you pay for the name when it comes to parts....the TD8E and the Deere 450C are machines I've found locally and meet my price range etc.

-Islandlogger

Offline captain_crunch

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2012, 01:24:24 PM »
I ran a TD-8e for 2 years and no major problems Biggest thing to watch is the 2 long thru bolts that go thru top winch mount and thru final drive houseing if they get loose they break and with an arch can be a bear to replace. A friend of mine is useing a Dresser TD-9h and it is a nice machine. Has logged with it long enough to wear out 1 undercarrage with no major problems  Unless you are going BigTime a Cat is a little pricey for avarage small logger. I have both TD-9 and TD-14 and while they will still get it done but I would not recomend any thing that old if you are trying to make a liveing. Parts for the ole beasts have all went to China >:( >:( Hard to say it but even 70's is getting old(Graduated High School in 72) And I am getting wore out also :D :D :D
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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2012, 10:18:07 PM »
When one of you guys are in need of hoe for the back, I have a nice A/C Mark V, would be perfect to put on a small dozer........ FF will get their commission
Ironwood

 

  

  

 
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Offline Koot Kraftsman

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Re: Dozer choices
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2021, 12:03:19 PM »
So Islandlogger, which machine did you end up with?  

I own a '73 JD 450B crawler loader with a 4-1 bucket and 93A backhoe Attachment which is in the middle of a FULL restoration and just traded my restored '70 JD 450 straight with winch & arch for a well used but fully functioning TD-8E (along with cash, 3 legendary chainsaws and a new climbing rig).  

Although I don't know much about the TD-8E yet, I can say that, after cleaning decades of grease, oil and earth from it, it looks like a more well designed machine as a whole over the JD 450 series machines.  While I am still relatively new to crawlers, I was a mechanic / mechanical engineer for 25 years and looking at the two machines side by side I would have to say (at first glance as I've only had the IH TD-8E for a week now) I get a really good feeling about the TD-8E.  Things I've noticed so far is the TD-8E is a smidge bigger, heavier by about 1,000 lbs, track frame covers are better, hydraulic wet steering clutches are SUPER nice, skid plates are a WAY better design, turbo'd engine with more HP than a 450 and most of all, the powershift automatic trans is much more convenient from an operator's perspective than the manual 1,2,3,4 gears and high-low-reverser that you have on a 450.

Granted, I am comparing a comparatively smaller LOADER to a larger DOZER but they are much more similar in size and capability than what you might think.  Still getting used to all the legroom in the cockpit of a dozer lol and having a 6-way blade is amazing.


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