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Thoughts and Opinions Please

Started by SliverPicker, April 03, 2014, 01:44:33 PM

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SliverPicker

You guys are more than helpful so I would like to bounce this off of you.

I have a chance to buy two different felling machines.

1.  1996 Komatsu 200 hoe with a Timbco shear head (size?).  10,000 hours.  The current owner is very trustworthy and very anal about maintenance on his machines.  I have a good friend who has known him for 40 years and says he can be 100% trusted to his word.  The owner claims he has never had any issues with the machine.  He owns a dirt company, but tried his hand at logging one year.  The machine is collecting dust currently.  He offered it to me for $31,200.  A very good price I think.

2.)  1993 Timbco 425, 16,000-18,000 or more hours.  Hour meter is broken.  Rails are worn out.  Undercarriage unknown.  Cummins B runs great currently.  All three pumps may need attention soon.  Buncher head (make unknown currently) $30,000

I haven't inspected either machine, but I believe the Komatsu is in better condition than the Timbco and has a lot fewer hours.

I think the Timbco is better suited to logging in Colorado with its self-leveling ability, boom configuration and higher ground clearance, but the Komastu is a better deal that needs no repairs. 

Pro's and Con's to each machine for clearing beetle kill in the hills?
Yooper by trade.

tj240

my employer has 3 komatsu 200s they are almost bullet proof, maintaince is marginal here. the machines have lots of power and are user friendly, so that wouldnt be a bad choice. we also have a 445 timbco, that will lay down wood like crazy but have replaced all the pumps and the under carriage which was very spendy. about 20000 for the pumps and 10000 for the undercarriage. the operator now is anal about everything on it so now it is tiptop condition. your need depend on the wood, ground and how much production you want for the money. with a good operator a grapple skidder will not keep up with the timbco. good luck
work with my father[jwilly] and my son. we have a 240 tj 160 barko[old] works great three generations working together

snowstorm

dose the 200 still have the excavator style boom? if so it will not work well with a shear head. a dangle head would work. an excavator was not built for the woods not with out a lot of cash put into it. and most dont have a lot of travel power

Ken

Over the past several weeks I have talked to numerous contractors about their machines and opinions.  Although there will be some who disagree dirt digging machines are made for that purpose.  To cut trees effectively requires a purpose built unit.  There have been many excavator conversions done around here over the years but purpose built machines are now by far the norm.  That being said a 20+ year old timbco with worn out components (that you can see) is in my mind also a money pit.  Buyer beware.  Unless you are in a hurry to get something do you homework which requires a lot of talking to contractors and travelling to see other operations. 
Lots of toys for working in the bush

1270d

A shear would keep you working during fire season possibly?

JDeere

Quote from: Ken on April 03, 2014, 06:47:58 PM
a 20+ year old timbco with worn out components (that you can see) is in my mind also a money pit.  Buyer beware.  Unless you are in a hurry to get something do you homework which requires a lot of talking to contractors and travelling to see other operations.
I couldn't agree more. We had an older Timbco on our job a couple winter ago and it ate $14,000.00 in hydraulic hoses in a year. Then, it lost the engine to the tune of $20,000.00. You can turn over a lot of money working in the woods but with old equipment you may not have any left at the end of the season.
2013 Western Star, 2012 Pelletier trailer, Serco 7500 crane, 2007 Volvo EC 140, 2009 John Deere 6115D, 2002 Cat 938G, 1997 John Deere 540G, 1996 Cat D-3C, 1995 Cat 416B, 2013 Cat 305.5E

BargeMonkey

 I had an older 1187A fellerbuncher with a 20" shear head and 1800 original hours which I couldnt give away. I have a 99' 425 Timbco and they are pricey. A barsaw dangle head on the komatsu wouldnt be a bad combination but most of the excavator conversions just dont hold up.

Corley5

The Timbco sounds like a $$$ pit.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

mad murdock

Quote from: Corley5 on April 03, 2014, 10:49:41 PM
The Timbco sounds like a $$$ pit.
x2!  when those machines were new they were 150k plus even 20 years ago, maybe more.  So if it is being sold for 30,000 now, to bring it to "dependabale" working status for the woods, I would bet you would be sinking 60-80k into it, in a short time.  If you are in steep gournd, is the average size of timber smallish so as to not be effective to hand cut? or maybe there are not enough dependable fallers out there? 
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

SliverPicker

I have a firewood retailer that wants 400-600 loads this year.  He said he will process and haul as much as I can cut and skid this year.  I have a lead on 400 acres to cut where I won't have to purchase stumpage.  Nothing has been signed and its in the preliminary stages.  I can hand fall day in and day out, but I'm not sure I can cut 9600 to 14400 tons with a saw between June and early March.  November through March would be in multiple feet of snow.  This is dry, dead lodgepole pine.  The vast majority of this timber is under 20" DBH.

I learned about another Timbco today that is the in $60,000 range.  Supposedly a very clean and well cared for machine with a Hahn processor head.  I need to do some math and see if this kind of investment makes sense.  Maybe a short road trip to look at this second Timbco is in order.  Its within 50 miles of here.  It belongs to  a landscaping crew that decided to take on a logging project.  They made it through last fall and this winter, but on Wednesday they literally abandoned their machines in the woods and walked off.  The owner of the company declared everything as being for sale.  That's a new one on me.

I looked over that Komatsu today.  10,519 hours.  Very strong.  One minor leak coming from the engine compartment and a few (3) cylinders that will need packing in the next year or so.  The boom is tight and is the excavator type. The undercarriage is at about 20%.

Mud season will be over by mid June.  I need to get some ducks in rows.

Thanks for all the input so far.  Keep it coming.
Yooper by trade.

Corley5

At 20% the undercarriage will need work before it goes to the woods.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

BEEMERS

I think the price is a little high on the Komatsu by about ten grand...but I don't know what the shear head is worth.Is it a dash-6 Komatsu? that would help..those are all yellow,the dash 5;s were blue white and yellow.They are great machines all around with great resale all around.I had a dash 5, and currently own 2 dash 6 models a 150 and a 220.I love them but Im an excavator by trade that logs in the winter.
I don't have the knowledge to comment on the other machine but if you have a bucket for the komatsu you'd have a multi purpose machine. A compromise in the woods yes, but youd have a vastly larger market to resell that machine.Plus its the right size...I think the 200's regaurdless of make have the biggest chunk of the excavator market .Its the size everyone is after.but those are a lot of hours...to some people. if you market it back later to the dirt movin guys,i think that if its a good machine,you will move quick and for top dollar.

barbender

You don't want a wore out Timbco. If you go with an excavator, I would want a dangle type felling head on it, and I don't think an excavator will do very well in mountainous terrain. As someone else said they don't have enough travel power.
Too many irons in the fire

nhlogga

Run from that timbco as fast as you can. It will cost more to fix than it's worth.
Jonsered 2260
Husky 562xp

ST Ranch

Agree with comments about the timbco, but recommend a purpose built feller buncher/harvester.  Using an excuvator that does not have "bush guards" or fire suppression adds to the risk.
I would suggest looking at something like a used Timberjack 608 buncher - they are good on fuel [usually a 5.9 cummins], easy to repair and good parts support   and no tail swing. 
Search Marketbook or machinery trader for equipment sales and you will find many 608s listed.  Market book have 2 listed in North Carolina for under $50000.
Good luck  Tom
LT40G28 with mods,  Komatsu D37E crawler,
873 Bobcat with CWS log grapple,

BargeMonkey

 Lakeshore had a 608L with a 7000 log max and he sat on that a while, that would do exactly what your looking for. The decent Timbco's are out there but its a needle in the hay stack. The repair costs are out of sight on them. There was a 425B with a shear and no hours in ME for 35k, be worth while searching the internet a bit.

snowstorm

uncle henrys.com there are several tracked machines on there with hot saws. timco deere and tiger cat

Bobus2003

I owned and ran a converted excavator in the woods, it had a dangle head on it. It was actually a pretty good machine, but was no comparison to a Timbco.. I dunno where your located and what you wanta get, but I knew of a few Timbcos for sale not long ago, and pretty cheap..

SliverPicker

I still haven't made up my mind what to do.  I've been trying to arrange financing through a few places.  The interest rates (despite an excellent credit score) have been ridiculous.  The lowest rate offered was 35.14% and the highest was 48.74%.  I refuse to borrow money at rates anywhere near these.  I know a guy named Giudo who works out of the back of a barbershop in Denver that charges less interest than the jackals I've been talking to.  I have a lead of some money in the 10% range. I should know in a few days.

I am heading north to look at a 1993 Timbco 425 on Monday.  I hope its a real cream puff. :D
Yooper by trade.

snowstorm


turkytrk

Interest that high makes a Sharp saw sound real economic

SliverPicker

Quote from: turkytrk on April 10, 2014, 10:25:01 PM
Interest that high makes a Sharp saw sound real economic

I'm actually thinking about two sharp saws.  I refuse to pay anywhere near that much interest.  I mean one place was 48.74%!! :snowball:
Yooper by trade.

snowstorm

how can this be?? isnt it called usage and illegal anything over 18%. the most i have paid in the last few years is 4%

SliverPicker

Lending money and charging the borrower interest is called "usury".  Many years ago it was illegal to do that.  In fact it was a capital crime and the lender could be hung for doing so.  Today I am afraid the sky is the limit.  I think there is a credit card available for people with very poor credit that is 79% interest.
Yooper by trade.

NWP

Everyone has warned you what to be wary of as far as machines. I would be wary of the firewood guy that says he'll buy everything you can cut.
1999 Blockbuster 2222, 1997 Duratech HD10, 2021 Kubota SVL97-2, 2011 Case SV250, 2000 Case 1845C, 2004 Case 621D, John Deere 540A, 2011 Freightliner with Prentice 120C, 2012 Chevrolet, 1997 GMC bucket truck, several trailers, and Stihl saws.

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