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Author Topic: Band saw blades vs circle saw blades  (Read 3216 times)

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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Band saw blades vs circle saw blades
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2017, 09:16:50 AM »
There are resaws made in the US that are circular.  Some are linebar, some are gang saw, some are slab recovery saws.  Pendu makes only resaw equipment, and its all circular.

The big thing is how much the equipment costs, and the capacity that these machines have.  Pendu makes a gang rip that is uses thin kerf circular saws.  They are used mainly with pallet producers in our area.  They have a high capacity and are easy to work on.  Most mills do not produce pallet stock.  They produce pallet cants, and the pallet maker makes the stock.  Much more capital efficient.  In addition, these resaws can be fitted with moulder heads that can produce cabin stock with many different styles. 

They also make a circle scragg mill, and have a slab recovery saw that makes bunches of boards out of slabs.  Again, it is geared mainly for the pallet industry. 

Hardwoods in my area go for grade and ties, with the least desirable market being pallet stock.  A high end mill with a linebar resaw is normally a band operation.  Some use big bands, some use the smaller bands.  It all depends on the size of material you want to send through.  Circle resaws have a limited capacity compared to a band resaw.  I imagine that you could put a large circle saw instead of a band saw, but I don't know if you'll get the same feed rates. 




Companies like Brewco make a resaw that gets good production for smaller operations, without breaking the bank.

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Offline Darrel

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Re: Band saw blades vs circle saw blades
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2017, 11:54:07 AM »
Wood-Mizer has entered the high output industrial sawmill equipment market and is introducing a new to them line of wide band head rigs and resaws that can be quickly adjusted on the fly. I know that my operation will never need this so I'll continue to use the somewhat higher cost disposable narrow bands. They also are providing bigger and faster edgers and gang saw's that use circle saws. They are calling the new line Titan.

Anyway, I thought for those interested, it might be worth a look.

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Offline longtime lurker

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Re: Band saw blades vs circle saw blades
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2017, 04:59:59 PM »
Learn something new every day: If I thought Circle gang or scragg, Pendu would come to mind but I didn't realize they did bench style resaws as well.

The Brewco and other horizontal band resaws leave me a bit confused to be honest. How can you cut grade if you can't see the bottom face which is where the board is being removed from?

I think it's about how our timber leaves the headsaw. You guys tend to aim for a "square log" which is then passed around the resaw taking off a slice at a time. Here, if we're chasing say 6" boards, we flitch at 6" on the headsaw using the linebar, then pass that to the resaw, so the resaw is just removing boards by width a lot of the time. Given that hardwood framing is still big here my thought process on the resaw becomes " which application will this 6" board suit?"  And thickness to cut at... 4/4 for flooring, 3/4 for paneling, 8 or 12/4 for framing... is determined by what I can see on the face I'm removing boards off. Being able to see the face allows me to direct each board to the highest value or most saleable application on its merits.

I think your logs are more consistent too... euc tends to be variable grade through the log so we get good clean boards suit higher value application out towards the sap, structural grade lumber in the middle, and by the time you get to the pith area you're down to landscape or pallet material. Makes it hard to specialize a sawmill, the log resource dictates that you dabble in them all.
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Band saw blades vs circle saw blades
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2017, 06:31:43 AM »
Our hardwoods grow the same way.  We have clean boards on the outside and defect develops as you cut closer to the heart.  In addition, our grade is dependent on the backside of the board.  If you cut into defect, a clear faced board can drop to low grade.  There are some markets for the clear faced low grade, but not many.  So, there is a good deal of skill placed on reading a log.  Like most things, the skill is knowing when to stop cutting on a face and turning.

As for sawing on the bottom, you know which side to saw by looking at turning the cant.  It makes no difference if it cuts from the bottom, top or sides.  Since you're making a single pass, that needs to be looked at if you're sawing for grade recovery.

Most times a mill will be set up for a single thickness on a species run.  It makes inside out sawing much easier.  But, there are times when multiple thicknesses work.  I used to saw tulip poplar with 4/4. 8/4, 10/4, and 12/4 specs.  The lower grades went to 4/4.  Sometimes we sawed oak with a 4/4 and 8/4 spec.  These also had the lower grades in 4/4.  We had a single headrig.

This can be done on a resaw.  When you run into low grade, you turn.  Eventually you'll have pallet stock.  Some mills have markets for pallet stock that is 4" or 6" by random width.  Works well for not accumulating low grade in lumber and easy on the resaw operator.  Ideally, these could be passed through a gang saw at the mills and further grade can be gotten. 

We do have edgers that are called bull edgers.  They have a typical edger on one side for edging boards, and a gang saw on the other.  Expensive, big, and takes a lot of power.
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Offline longtime lurker

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Re: Band saw blades vs circle saw blades
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2017, 07:55:52 AM »
Our grade rules are weird.
The hardwood Structural grade rules here are a thing of beauty. It's simple, easily applied, and for someone such as yourself I'd think you'd be confident enough after a day of training to sit the exam and get your own stamp. It was written to be understood and applied by  Sawmillers and it's a common sense system.

Our " structural appearance" rule is dumb. Structural appearance rules apply to things like flooring because how houses are traditionally built here the flooring is a structural component, so it's got to carry both structural rating and then gets broken into three categories based on appearance: Select, which has very little grain variation minimal tight knots, tiny veins etc but the overriding thing is uniformity through the package. Rift to quartersawn with straight grain is the norm.
Standard and Better is a bit more generous about knots, gumveins, the odd borer hole and allows for a range of grain patterns through the package. Backsawn material with the characteristic swirling grain is typical S&B. It's the ost common grade because of the backsawn grain thing.
Feature grade is everything else... big knots, holes, and highly figured grain patterns.
Cabinet and joinery type applications use a different rule as non structural uses of lumber.

I avoid S&B in most of my species: I can't compete with the big guys there on cost of production so I don't even try. I chase the premium that comes with select grade where they can't compete with me. But part of any quarter cut pattern is you always get a % of real pretty boards.

 

 

So in that picture there the valuable stuff as flooring is the straight grained stuff. The pretty ones because of the grain go feature grade which is the least valuable flooring material.

So normally instead of cutting those at 7/8 for eventual 3/4 Tongue and groove I'll change to 1 1/8 for cabinet and joinery use where it becomes the most sought after material, or run it at 3/4for paneling where feature grade is in demand.

Can get complex here stacking lumber... I'll have 4/5/6 inch widths coming off in three different appearance grades in 2 thicknesses for flooring / paneling etc, plus structural framing sizes, plus the figured stuff for cabinet& joinery markets...all out the one log. Species change day is a nightmare . But by cutting each log on it's merits in terms of maximizing value in saleable sizes it means we're actually a quite profitable business.

As with any grade rule the trick is in knowing it and your markets that well you can use it to your advantage instead of having it use you. But it also means a look at the face before you cut to get it right for application.

I ran a big mill once... I think there were times the setworks would be just about frozen up at the inch mark from running flooring and decking stock for weeks. I am really enjoying being little enough to do it this way instead.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.


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