iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35

Started by WV Sawmiller, November 11, 2015, 05:33:41 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

WV Sawmiller

   Is anybody cutting cross ties on an LT35 hydraulic mill? If so what do you consider a reasonable number to cut on a daily basis.

  A guy called me and wanted a few hardwood 2X4's and I happened to have a few ash logs my son brought up last week from his FIL place. I cut them yesterday and he picked up his order that afternoon now he wants me to cut a bunch (said several hundred) cross ties (7"X9"X8') for him and is willing to pay $10 each to have them cut. Less than my normal fee but he does not want to keep any of the side lumber so basically just 4 cuts on most logs. He'd provide logs, a helper and MHE and I just provide the mill and sawing services.

   I agreed to go look at his site this week and told him I'd think about it. He is about 10 miles from me. I know a bigger mill would be better suited to this size work but have any of you tried cutting large numbers of ties with similar mills?

   Any gottchas I need to be looking at in something like this? Any experience you have would be appreciated.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

drobertson

I see no gotcha's  other than heavy slabs at times, I would probably saw out some outside lumber just because,, getting them off the mill is the only task I see, other than handling after that.    four side slabs can go fast, so you could be looking at well inside five minutes a log for just the tie, it still seems like a bit of a waste, but whatever winds the clock,   hope it goes well for you both,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

WV Sawmiller

   Not saving the side lumber sure seems wasteful to me too but since I'm just providing sawing service not my issue unless I wanted to try to make a deal with the guy for the side lumber and try to resaw it and market the short hardwood lumber generated.

    Its the customer's logs but I was always led to believe a successful sawmill operation was supposed to market every thing but the woody smell.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

bkaimwood

I don't think an LT35 is ill equipped for such a job, give the girl credit, she can handle it, no problem... 5 minutes a tie? Sure, with decent logs, a decent environment, some help or support equipment... Won't leave any room for breaks, you'll be runnin'. Like you said, looking at the location, and log quality will be key. If you think you can do 7-8 per hour or better, and not kill yourself, deal in!!! Good luck, let us know how it progresses...
bk

drobertson

If a fellow can't saw four sides with help in 5 minutes, then something is wrong,  and I will add, I would save the slabs for firewood,  I just found an extra board per side to make sure the wane is off, it can be tricky going for it with just four cuts,  but I am pretty slow thinking, so whatever,  I have done the deed on quick ties, and it still is hard to do, and gets heavy at the same time,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

bkaimwood

Heavy quicker with age, that's for sure...5 minutes per tie, with help, key phrase, with help, or nice logs...without help or ugly logs, and one quickly finds one's self hussling hard, killing yourself, and doings things that will haunt you for weeks...I too, am a slow thinker, and often spend as much time looking at a cant as I do sawing it...too maximize its potential... At times, counterproductive... I have a simple, stupid procedure that I use on logs that are barely worth sawing out more than I want, a tie, a 6x6, or whatever... Whenever you don't want side lumber...I put the small end on the operator side, take my tape and mark the end of the log for the product I want, center and level the pith, and let her have it...with the occasional minor adjustment of an 1/8" or so...but it helps me, one of the thinkers, to move on quicker...
bk

snowshoveler

I don't know squat about what you can do with your LT35 ( cause I don't really know bandmills).
However I am pretty sure you could run 50 a day with a bit of help.
10 bucks a tie is 500 bucks isn't it.
The side lumber is gravy even if its firewood, that is good gravy here at this time of year.
I would have to look at the logs first and maybe look at the help.
Seems like a good job to me but I have made errors once or twice.
Regards Chris
International T5 dozer
JD M tractor
MF skidloader
Jonsered chainmill
Vintage Belsaw

Stuart Caruk

Your LT35 (with hydraulics) would do that just fine. Although you are working for basically just over what it costs to run the saw. Smaller logs, I'd make firewood, larger ones I'm to lazy to lift the slabs so I'd cut boards anyway. At that price I'd negotiate to keep whatever isn't turned into ties.
Stuart Caruk
Wood-Mizer LX450 Diesel w/ debarker and home brewed extension, live log deck and outfeed rolls. Woodmizer twin blade edger, Barko 450 log loader, Clark 666 Grapple Skidder w/ 200' of mainline. Bobcats and forklifts.

Cypress Man

I'm obviously not doing something right.  I've been sawing full time for 16yrs now. I'm currently running a Lt70 wide head with log deck, power conveyor, transfer table,and twin blade edger. I only saw cypress lumber and cants. I usually average cutting about 30 logs per 8 hour day. Some days less, some days more. I'd say you would be hard pressed to cut 50 logs a day on a Lt30 with support equipment.  I also have two catapillar telehandler forklifts hauling logs to the log deck, hauling lumber/cants from the mill, hauling away slabs,sawdust,and edger waste, stacking boards etc. This is being done with 4 experienced people. I'm not saying you can't do it. I just think it won't be fun or sustainable for any length of time.  Good luck with your job. If I can be of any assistance or advice just message me.
LT70 wide head electric, IC5 Power conveyor, transfer table, Stop and Load Log Deck, Catapiller 360B Telehandler, Cat tl642c Teleloader, Cat TH514 Telehandler, Woodmizer EG400 edger, Logosol PH360 moulder, Extrema 26" Planner, Grizzly 16" dual conveyor resaw, Prentice 285 log loader

ncsawyer

A 7x9x8 cross tie is 42 bdft times 50 is only 2,100 bdft.  I know on my old manual LT40 that 2000 bdft per day of 2 inch lumber with one off bearer was pretty easy.  I cut nearly 3,500 bdft of 8x8x16 white oak cants for trackhoe mats in a day with two off bearers and a small track loader with forks and didn't have to push myself all that hard. 

And at $10 per tie, that is $0.238 per bdft. and not far off from my normal rate of $250/thousand (when sawing by the bdft).  Sounds like a good opportunity and a fairly easy sawing job to me. 
2015 Wood-Mizer LT40DD35
Woodmaster 718 planer
Ford 445 Skip Loader

Peter Drouin

Quote from: Cypress Man on November 11, 2015, 08:38:03 PM
I'm obviously not doing something right.  I've been sawing full time for 16yrs now. I'm currently running a Lt70 wide head with log deck, power conveyor, transfer table,and twin blade edger. I only saw cypress lumber and cants. I usually average cutting about 30 logs per 8 hour day. Some days less, some days more. I'd say you would be hard pressed to cut 50 logs a day on a Lt30 with support equipment.  I also have two catapillar telehandler forklifts hauling logs to the log deck, hauling lumber/cants from the mill, hauling away slabs,sawdust,and edger waste, stacking boards etc. This is being done with 4 experienced people. I'm not saying you can't do it. I just think it won't be fun or sustainable for any length of time.  Good luck with your job. If I can be of any assistance or advice just message me.




Are the 30 logs, mostly 1"?
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Cypress Man

Just to make sure everyone understands what I'm saying, think about this. To cut 50 logs per day on any bandsaw in an 8 hour period you must cut one log every 9.6 minutes continuously for 8 hours. Yes if you have everything set up to start sawing, ie. Logs cut to length, staged at log deck, etc... Don't forget you will change blades multiple times during this 8 hour period, it's possible to do one day. The next day it will take hours to clean up the sawdust, slabs, edger waste, sticker cut lumber, sharpen saw blades etc... Sustaining 50 logs a day is verrrry difficult. Not to mention the wear and tear on your body.
LT70 wide head electric, IC5 Power conveyor, transfer table, Stop and Load Log Deck, Catapiller 360B Telehandler, Cat tl642c Teleloader, Cat TH514 Telehandler, Woodmizer EG400 edger, Logosol PH360 moulder, Extrema 26" Planner, Grizzly 16" dual conveyor resaw, Prentice 285 log loader

fishpharmer

With one helper I definitely agree with cypress man.  Thats a lot of wear and tear on you and the equipment. 
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Ohio_Bill

Yes the mill is capable of doing that numbers of ties in MHO. Keeping logs in front of the Mill, slabs out of the way and handling the ties is the challenge. A set of gravity rollers at the end will help.  Most days I saw 40 in about 6 hrs.  You need a straight 12inch log to get a 7 by 9.



 


 
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

sandsawmill14

it all depends on the logs. when sawing with the tk b20 some days we work hard to get 25 7x9 some days we will cut 60  but i am sawing big logs mostly and sawing all the lumber i can get. :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

Wallee

I saw ties on a lt15 so it can be done. What you have to do is figure out if it is cost effective for you. On my little lt15 with power feed I can only cut about 20 per day. I am a green horn and still learning so I am sure it could be a lot faster. I would kill for the hydraulics but being that your mill has hydraulics and a bigger power plant, I don't see why given your situation it wouldn't work. I would suggest possibly chipping the side cuts or something to at least not be wasting a product that could be sold in some way.
Lt28 Woodmizer, International 3514 wheel loader, husqvarna 450,455 rancher, and 372xp saws, 1990 international 4700 log truck, Prentice 180b knuckleboom!

bandmiller2

Slow down and enjoy yourself think long haul too much rush and you will burn out. Set your mill up with roller tables and do everything to make handling easy. No contracts or quotas mix it in with your regular customers. Can be a good filler between other jobs. The outside boards would be good for pallet stock and probably be most of the profit. Watch your back ties are heavy. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Cedarman

Not quite 30 years ago I took a job sawing ties with  an LT30 manual mill.  We sawed 7x9, 7x8, and some 6x8 depending on the log size. The owner had a loader, kept logs on a deck, moved all slabs , ties, and boards if we made any.
Also had an off bearer.  Ties were never lifted.  After sawing, we placed a 2x with a curved steel flange to fit over the round roller guide and rolled the tie off  and onto a stack next to the mill.  When there were 12 ties, stack was moved by loader.  Sawed for about a week.  Usually about 45 and up per day.  One day we sawed 77, but the logs were perfect size.  Remember, manual mill.  Also had to sharpen blades at night.  This was before resharp came along.  No debarker, but logs were pretty clean.  Even some hickory in the mix.
Would you rather make $500 in a day and be tired or watch your mill all day and not be tired?  Mill depreciates whether you use it or not.
Who pays offbearer?
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Ohio_Bill

If the ties are going to be sold to a treatment plant you might want to spend some time understanding the gradeing rules. There are rules regarding wayne, barkseam ,holes,hart placement,  shake and these rules also change for the rail barring area of the tie . Its not that hard to understand but something to keep ties from being rejected.
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

John Grange

I have a TK 1600 and am fairly new to cutting. We have a Skid Steer with Forks, Grapple, and Clam Bucket. makes moving everything easier. I have a portable 8' long cross buck near the mill and put my cants on it. When loaded out comes the Stihl 028 and I have 2' chunks of firewood.  The $10.00 each is his offer, why not counter and state your rate? He evidently knows what the going rate is and wants a better deal.
Give him an hourly rate with the price of replacement blades thrown in, then his "help" can be evaluated for productivity and you will not be paying for their "schooling". Just saying.
I cut for enjoyment and to clean up the farm and get some cash for other "tools", sounds like a pretty good opportunity if price gets right.
John Grange

taylorsmissbeehaven

I have never cut ties but am interested in seeing how it goes for you! As stated, see if you can test the water so to speak. $500 a day is nothing to sneeze at as long as you are not tearing stuff up(you or equipment). I hope it works out for you and you keep us posted. Brian
Opportunity is missed by most because it shows up wearing bib overalls and looks like work.

SawyerBrown

I don't think there's any issue about whether the LT35 is capable, but 5 minutes per log sounds awfully aggressive to me.  First it depends on how big a log you're starting with -- a 12" log will go a whole lot faster than a 20" log (yeah, I know that's probably an exaggeration ...).  Then, are they clean?  Branches cleared off?  Relatively straight? 

The hydraulics on a 35 are plenty powerful but not particularly fast.  I'm thinking of the whole process -- disposing of flitches (potentially fairly heavy if not processing side lumber), backing all the way up, unclamping, rotating, re-clamping, sawing (and manually re-engaging blade), repeat, repeat, repeat.  Then you've got to (have someone) move a fairly heavy cant, clear flitches, and have the next log on the loading arms ready to go.  Others have mentioned blade changes ...

I'm not particularly fast, but not slow either, and this would have me pretty tired running 100 mph all day long.  Maybe could be done, but I for one don't think it's practical to keep up 8 hours a day for several days.  I'd probably assume 10 minutes per log, that still is about 50 logs in an 8-hour day which sounds more realistic, as snowshoveler has suggested.  Just MHO. 

Good luck whatever you decide!
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

Cedarman

Throughout my 30 years sawing, logging, building a mulch business etc, if I had waited until I was sure of everything including making a profit, I would have never bought a mill, let alone investing beau coup money, getting a planer, moulder, scragg saw and all the other toys we use.  Some times things didn't work out, some times worked out spectacularly.  You are doing the research the best you can, but you won't know for sure until you dive in.  Worst case scenario is that you won't make as much money as you thought, have too much side lumber left over, you will be tired, and know that you won't do that type of work again or will make changes next time.
Good luck with your decision.
Do make sure of the specs.  They can change over time and one area can be different from another in what is acceptable.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

red

Make sure there is flexibility in the agreement.  I don't think you want to cut RR Ties every day or try to make a quota. The big thing will be your helpers.
Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

Ianab

Personally I'd do it, at least once.

I can't see how you are really going to be loosing money on the deal. The question is really, "Are you making enough to want to do it again?". And the only way to answer that is to actually do it for a few days, cut the 200 ties, and then decide.

Either it's a good job, and you are happy. Tell the guy to call any time he wants more cut.

Or you figure after your expenses you worked a week for only minimum wage. In that case you still take the $2,000 as agreed, but tell the guy that if he needs it done again it will be $12 a tie (or whatever number you need to make it work)

Setting up the job site and having some good help is what is going to make or break the deal. You need to be sawing, with the logs just appearing, and slabs and ties disappearing as if by magic. If you have to stop and do materials management and housekeeping all the time, you wont get the production you want, and that's the difference between making $60hr and $120 hr.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Thank You Sponsors!