Helmsman Spar Urethane review (clear satin finish)

[Sedgehammer]

Just used it (well this past winter) for our main pie hole fillin station. I put trice coats. Messed up, didn't thin it,so it's a tiny bit wavy, but for an old table that'll get tossed (I say tossed, I'm sure me bride will find a use for it) in a year or so, when the new digs are dug, it'll work.
Just have to look around the freshly churned butter stuff

[69bronco]

@69bronco  what is that varnish? I thought spar urethane was supposed to be a good outdoor option. I use the flip and seal trick in PVC cement, it helps it last longer.  Still almost always have to run to town to buy some at the hardware because t h e old stuff is hard anyway...

Epifanes varnish is a good one, also I've had good luck with Total Boat brand. Just make sure it's spar varnish. Spar urethane is a polyurethane.

[Unclefish]

I did 3 coats of minwax spar varnish on this bird house we will see how it looks in a year from now.



 

[Sedgehammer]

Anything exposed outside now I'm using ready seal walnut with used motor oil. I think trying to seal wood outside with a hard coat is a waste of time over all. Looks terrible when it starts to peal and peal it will. Looks great for a while, will grant you that.
Here's our dock  

 

 

[doc henderson]

old thread, but many folks use nitrogen from a bottle or sieve to air up tires.  the Guinness stout beer and other stouts use nitrogen to get the fine bubbles in the foam and cascading.  nitrogen can be added to a gallon can of finish to keep it from going bad (oxidizing),  cannot make a black and tan beer without the stout being pressurized with nitrogen so the foam floats on top and cascades.  Guinness sells bottles of stout with a nitrogen pellet that opens up when you pop the cap, and gives it a fresh froth of nitrogen fine foam.  most surface finishes will yellow and peel over time even if UV protect.  and oil penetrating finish is great but will also need redone.  pick how you want to refinish your project and then the finish.  the table in the pick, the boards are laid in loose, and can come out and got through the planer sanded, and refinished.  when too thin, new boards.  they are locust.

[Crusarius]

Wow, I have no idea how so many responses got missed by me. I need to take pictures of my benches and the samples again like I promised. Unfortunately, as usual. Life got in the way.

I will get back to this soon I hope.

[Don P]

Someone showed me a trick with tung oil years ago, clean pebbles is another way to take up space in a container so there is less O2 to skin the goods.

[Nebraska]

  I was hoping the picture were up...

[Crusarius]

yea, I fail. sorry about that. will do my best to get some tomorrow.

[Crusarius]

Wow, I am a terrible person for not doing anything on this thread till now. Sorry guys, I feel like I let you all down.

Unfortunately, I have come to the conclusion this spar urethane is a poor outdoor finish at best. I think I had less than a year on these benches before the seal started bubbling and peeling. Very disappointing.

I am not sure if I could have done any better surface prep but looking at other pics and doc hendersons closeups I had the exact same failure mode.

It all seems to start at the heavy grain areas.



 

 

 

[btulloh]

Good report. Condolences on the finish cracking. 

What you've demonstrated is the problem of using film finishes on outdoor wood. There's no way to keep a film finish from cracking because of the natural wood movement. Defects just make it happen faster. I've used spar varnish on a lot of outdoor stuff from boats (mahogany) to tables and doors made of erc. Best case, a varnish will need to be sanded and reapplied after two years. Doesn't have to be sanded down to bare wood, just remove loose stuff and feather the edges. Not as bad it sounds - except on boats. Boat maintenance never got to be something I enjoyed. But that's the whole thing with boats.  :D :D  Glad I don't own one anymore.  8) 

[Old Greenhorn]

Sorry to see this. It needs sanding and re-finishing now. Bummer. I note that all the finish failures are in areas when trapped air can be present and subject to the frost/thaw cycles. I wonder if that is causing it? I have a table top I need to retrieve and check but last summer when I looked at it, it was still perfect. Out in all seasons 3 years now. However with my tops, I fill all those voids with clear epoxy and sand flush before finishing. The product I use most is Verthane polyurethane exterior oil based for those tables. I have yet to see a failure like yours. In this case, I don't think it's the product, I think it is probably the captive air that is causing the failure.
 What do you think?

[Tom King]

Just a few weeks ago, I refinished the front doors on our rental/guest house.  They had marine varnish on them.  I used Totalboat Lust marine varnish on them just because I wanted to finish in one day.  

The carved panels had the old varnish still intact, so I cleaned the door with Liquid Sandpaper, so I didn't have to do any sanding of the carved parts, and sanded the stiles and rails down to bare wood.

I put four coats on it after lunch, and we put the doors back up just before sundown.

Epipanes had been my go-to for a long time, but you're lucky to get one coat a day on of that.



 

 

[Tom King]

On that same house, the week before, I redid the garage doors.  Since there was so much surface area, I wanted to spray them, so I used another Totalboat product.  This one a waterborne marine varnish, because I wanted to spray it with airless, and only spray waterborne stuff with that.

Totalboat Halcyon.  This was the first time using it, but I really like it.  It can also be recoated in one hour.

Totalboat is the brand name of Jamestown Distributors own line of finishing products.  I've been dealing with that company for almost 50 years, and have great confidence in them.

This was a long, bad job of preparing these doors for the new finish.  The old varnish was peeling, and the exposed wood was gray, and deteriorating.





Here's a video we shot of me setting the airless rig for spraying Target Coatings EM8000cv for the base coats under the Halcyon.  I like the way conversion varnishes sand for being recoated.  It's also a waterborne finish.  This shows the usefulness of having a gauge on the airless rig.

Airless spraying EM8000cv - YouTube

[Crusarius]

Sorry to see this. It needs sanding and re-finishing now. Bummer. I note that all the finish failures are in areas when trapped air can be present and subject to the frost/thaw cycles. I wonder if that is causing it? I have a table top I need to retrieve and check but last summer when I looked at it, it was still perfect. Out in all seasons 3 years now. However with my tops, I fill all those voids with clear epoxy and sand flush before finishing. The product I use most is Verthane polyurethane exterior oil based for those tables. I have yet to see a failure like yours. In this case, I don't think it's the product, I think it is probably the captive air that is causing the failure.
What do you think?

I think I agree. overall the bench looks good. its only the areas with cracks and twisted grain that did not adhere. So you are probably spot on with you analysis.

[Don P]

I've assumed it is water rather than air when a film finish fails. We used to fix bubbling paint on a house by installing a vapor barrier in the crawlspace first, usually worked. That drop of water diffuses through the surrounding wood, swells fiber and shears the film. The sun turning the moisture to vapor increases the tension pressure under the film, peeling it off. More water enters and the process hastens. 

[samandothers]

I've assumed it is water rather than air when a film finish fails. We used to fix bubbling paint on a house by installing a vapor barrier in the crawlspace first, usually worked. That drop of water diffuses through the surrounding wood, swells fiber and shears the film. The sun turning the moisture to vapor increases the tension pressure under the film, peeling it off. More water enters and the process hastens.

Interesting observation on the vapor barrier effect on the exterior finish.  

[Crusarius]

Unfortunately, wood is a living breathing thing. and sealing it in a plastic coffin is never a good idea. I had high hopes for this product. Oh well. left a nice finish probably be ok not in the weather but I don't know.

The pictures below are the control sample that I did and has been stored in the house out of direct light.



 

 

[beenthere]

I've assumed it is water rather than air when a film finish fails. We used to fix bubbling paint on a house by installing a vapor barrier in the crawlspace first, usually worked. That drop of water diffuses through the surrounding wood, swells fiber and shears the film. The sun turning the moisture to vapor increases the tension pressure under the film, peeling it off. More water enters and the process hastens.

Interesting observation on the vapor barrier effect on the exterior finish.  

Often can see the effects of moisture in a house without a vapor barrier by looking at the peeled paint on the siding. And often it is particularly bad at the bathroom where shower is used.
But for heated homes in the cold climates, a vapor barrier has been recommended on the heated side of the insulation for about 60 years now.
As well, a vapor barrier at the ground level (crawl space or under the concrete basement floor) has been recommended since the 50's.

Also, very difficult to prevent UV from breaking down the celluloses that hold a finish to the wood.

[snowstorm]

i used epifanes varnish on my boat inside and out. its made in holland. very good stuff. they have several types. its not a one coat and be done it takes several but its worth it

[Crusarius]

 

 I used this for a large number of red cedar projects. Inside the house is marginal. Nothing I have found will keep red cedar from fading to burnt orange if it gets sunlight.

Outside I will never, ever, ever consider using it again. In addition to discoloration the finish breaks down and peels quite readily. Save the expense and hassle of sanding and refinishing and let outside projects weather and then slop some deck waterproofing on it.

Three summers on an east facing covered porch.



 

@stavebuyer, you were right on the money. I ended up sanding the benches and just putting some thompsons on it that i had laying around.

The spar urethane was a decent product but I would never consider it again for outdoor use. I just sanded and 2 coated the benches with thompsons. Last night the rain hammered everything. The water beaded up nicely on both benches.