Swing blade circular vs bandsaw?

[Dennis Penton]

I am interested in opinions from those who have direct experience with both of these type mills. I am interested in a manual mill in both. For personal and some commercial but light work. Which of these makes the best lumber and is easiest for one person to operate? Basically the pros and cons please.

[Gary Davis]

at times I wish I had both  

[moodnacreek]

A competitor had a swing mill that would only make 8" width stuff. His lumber was often high quality with all that rift and quartered. The customers could care less, they wanted wider boards.

[NZJake]

Wide boards really depend on the model swing-blade you end up with. The Turbosawmill M12 will cut 12" quartersawn boards pretty easily in larger logs, and up to 24" wide slabs.

12" deep cuts:
M12HD SAWING MAX CUT - YouTube

Double cutting 20" wide:
Wide boards with a Turbosawmill. - YouTube

[quadracutter222]

There is not a difference when it comes to best lumber, in my option.  Both will cut as accurate, true and square as YOU put into it.

We have had a portable hydraulic bandsaw mill, sold that, and now have a portable manual swingblade.  In my limited experience, the swing blade is less work than the bandsaw. I have found it to be less work, and better output per hour for what I cut.  Both mills were cutting solo, in second growth 12"-36" douglas fir.

Some things to narrow down would be:
- are you cutting only dimensional lumber and beams, or want to cut wider live edge?
- do you have equipment for log handling?  Can your log loading machine, also assist in vertical lifts over the mill to help with rolling?
- diameter and length of logs you are most likely to most frequently saw.  (big, long logs lend themselves to a swinger)

Manually rolling the type of wood I cut is not a fun job.

[Ianab]

at times I wish I had both  

That would be the ideal situation.  
One is not inherently better than the other, but they both have their strengths and weaknesses. 
One thing I like about swing mills is the ability to handle BIG logs. Sure you can cut small ones OK, but so can any other mill. 
Another is the option of a clip on chainsaw slabber, and the planer and sanding heads. Now you can cut wide live edge, AND then finish it (after drying) with the same machine. And you still have the super portable dimensional mill. 
Best mill is the one that's best for YOUR scenario. (and budget) 

[jimbarry]

at times I wish I had both  

I owned both. A manual band mill that I had for a couple years now. Bought a swing blade last year and barely used it, so I sold it. I was more comfortable with the bandsaw mill. I would say if you are interested in one or the other or both, then get some time operating both first before purchasing to make sure its right for you.

[terrifictimbersllc]

I had a 2001 LT40 Super and 2010 Peterson WPF 1030 at the same time for about 8 years.  Carried the WPF on a 5x10 trailer which it was always stored on.  My business was 100% portable so always setting up for every job.

Setup time for bandsaw was 15-30 minutes and for the Peterson about 1.5 hr for circular and 2 hr for chain slabbing.  Packing up time to where I was ready to drive out, for both mills, was a little less than the setup time but not much less.  Me and no employees/helpers. These times were from arrival to being ready to make the first cut.   I always wished for a video showing the same, where a swing mill set up in 15 minutes.

Neat a machine as it was, I would only consider using the swing mill/slabber for jobs that the bandsaw wouldn't do.  As time went on I would hope that phone calls were about jobs that the bandsaw could do.  It was the setup time and the fact that the swing mill/slabber was about heavy and hard manual work. With the bandsaw, I could watch customers doing most of the work as I stood at the controls and tidied up or took a sip on my coffee.  I didnt want customers near the swing mill but they always removed slabs when using the chain slabber, while I changed chains or refueled.   It will be touted that swing mills are more portable.  I would say a bandsaw is real portable once after it is hooked to an F350.  And you don't have to put it together at a job. On the other hand a swing mill isn't a vehicle which has some advantages. 

How you like either mill will depend on how you are using it and how much exercise you want during the day.

[farmfromkansas]

Did like that sharpening, but don't think I would want to handle that mill head. How heavy is that beam that is positioned over the log? Now that I have a skidsteer and a bandmill, think I will stick to that, if you were starting with nothing, maybe either could be made to work. Ideally, would be nice to have a hydraulic mill.  Anything manual turns into a lot of work.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Heavy mill head is good for the sawing. Not sure how much it weighs.  but with Peterson WPF you put on two jockey wheels and push the whole mill (about 700 pounds)  around with no trouble on smooth ground, with a helper on any kind of bumps on the ground. Loading /unloading from trailer is easy one pulls the lighter end off the trailer puts the wheels on, then slides the engine weight from the other end to the end with the wheels. 

The Lucas head hangs on rails so that gets pushed around like a wheelbarrow. 

You don't pick either mill head up.  

[scsmith42]

I operate a Peterson 10" WPF swing blade, a dedicated slabber and a Baker hydraulic band mill. All are set up for stationary use.

Hands down, the hydraulic band mill is the easiest and fastest to operate for most tasks.

If I had to choose between a manual band mill and a Swing blade, I would opt for the swing blade and would give the Turbosaw a close look.

Between Peterson and Lucas, the Peterson is much easier to double cut with than the Lucas.

The ease of edging on the log with the swing blades is a major plus, as compared with a band mill. Plus the ease of milling quarter / rift sawn lumber.

[NZJake]

Speaking from our range of sawmills (turbosawmill) I would certainly pick the automated mill with trailer package over our manual mill (when considering a mobile job).

Its much quicker to setup with the wheeled system for mobility.

The manual mills require it to be handled for setup.

The trailer kit makes all the difference in setup time. It's more of a one man show. 

[Walnut Beast]

Seems like the swing blade would be pretty handy to edge and cut multiple thickness of previously cut and dried wood along with planing in addition to the cutting duties 

[Walnut Beast]

How good of a job does the planer blade do on the swing blade and vs a Slabmizer has anyone seen or had both. Thoughts 

[Walnut Beast]

For those that had or do have the clip on slabber how accurate, effective and how did or do you like it in 45" stuff

[longtime lurker]

Comparing the planer blade vs slabmizer setup... apples and oranges (pun intended)  The slabmizer is a machine dedicated to one task so it's inherently more efficient at that task. (They'd want to put some serious length on it for me to buy one though, I'd find that 11' length limit very restrictive). But fundamentally it's going to do the job better and faster because that's the only job it can do. I never really played about with the planer blade assembly on the Lucas mill when I had it because I had access to a YAS Slabmaster and (a) found it more cost effective to pay the guy with the right machine so I could get along with doing other things and (b) didn't need that service often enough to justify spending the money to bring it in house.
I cleaned up a few slabs with the planer attachment and it did a good job, don't get me wrong. And it's fundamentally a lot cheaper if you've got the mill to attach it to and the time to use it to value add your own products. But for me there were always logs that needed to be cut for the next job and the mill couldn't be sawing and planing at the same time.

Same with the clip on slabber. I used it, and it did a good job and I've cut some really huge slabs that sold for big dollars with it and was really happy with the quality of finish. Quality of finish is mostly about operator ability... dialling the unit in right and sharpening chains well... but you can say that about any machine that cuts wood right?
But I didn't use it a lot because that wasn't the direction my business went. The Lucas dedicated slabber is a lot faster than the clip on unit (its about gearing for application) but I didn't do much slabbing so the investment to have the dedicated slabber wasn't worth it to me. Had I gone that way I'd have got a dedicated slabber, and a dedicated 3 axis router for levelling.

If I was setting up to cut slabs all day every day I'd be after a big hydraulic euro style bandmill running a 4" or wider band, plus a Lucas dedicated slabber for stuff wider than the bandmill could handle, plus a 3 axis router with bed capacity as big as my mills could handle, plus a wide drum sander, plus a stroke sander for stuff wider than the drum sander could handle and a spray booth for applying coatings. Every log that comes in would have a dedicated and efficient solution available to cut it and every slab leaving would be presented with exceptional finish quality for minimal effort.

But thats a couple hundred grands worth of setup and a full time business model with a couple of staff. You could make the same product with an alaskan and a scrub plane and get as good a job as anything if you had the energy and didn't need the volume to survive. And somewhere between those two extremes is the place thats right for any individuals' requirements.
To slab the odd log here and there it's hard to go past a clip on slabber and a planer attachment as being capable of doing a good job with minimal investment. From there its about adding more capacity as and where it makes sense.

[Walnut Beast]

Longtime lurker great information and perspective! I think I'm probably going to switch my order on the dedicated slabber to the swing blade with clip on slabber with planer blade. With the clip on slabber it's good up to 59" and I don't see really going over that with what I have very often. Probably will be the 8" 

[longtime lurker]

The dedicated slabber will cut maybe twice as fast as the clip on, on the 10" mill. My slabbing experience was that log handling, slab handling, waste handling and sharpening chains ate up half my time, those things won't change much either way except more wood cut means more of the above. It really was a 2 person job to KSIW, which is where the money is at.

Every piece of equipment I've ever owned has the same issue... there's no such thing as being good at everything, and the more efficient at a single task a machine gets the less versatile it is. 

I no longer have any capacity to cut slabs at all. But boards, those I can do quickly and efficiently and we can laminate them together out to as long and as wide as you want to go.

[Ianab]

A big advantage I see with the clip on slabber is that if fashions or markets change, and you have to shift your focus to different products, you can. A dedicated slabbing mill, that's all it ever does. If you end up having to saw 2xs, fence boards or trailer decking to make ends meet, you can, without giving up your wide slabbing ability (or buying another machine) 

[Walnut Beast]

Knowing what a full hydraulic and setworks bandsaw mill at my fingertips can do we will find out what the swingblade cult is all about 

[Walnut Beast]

Talked to a older gentleman that really run a 8" swing blade and slabbed some big stuff with the clip on slabber. He could do 60 slabs in a day. He worked for a couple sawmills a few times a month for some big 💰 and did the bigger stuff they couldn't do. From the planing capabilities to all the things he loved about the swing mill the only complaint he had was it's hard work but the results are fantastic with the three different capabilities 

[wkf94025]

That's my situation exactly.  Very happy with the Lucas 7-23, slabbing attachment, and planing/sanding heads.  Yes, it's hard work, which I value.

[Ianab]

No matter what sort of portable mill, you still have to move the material. The faster the mill saws, the more boards you have to move.  :D Swing blades can cut a LOT of boards (from the right logs), and that makes them hard work. 

[Walnut Beast]

Peterson has their demo days going on now. Pretty exciting from what I've seen. I decided to go with a Peterson. I was going to go with the dedicated slabber but I really wanted the planer blade for slabs. So I got my order in for a Peterson WPF 8" with auto up/down, slabber and planer. The 8" runs the slabber a little faster than the 10

[wkf94025]

Curious what cost and lead time are for that order, if you don't mind sharing.

[Percy]

We have both at our operation. We cut bridge Timbers 8 x10, 8x12 x16,18,20.  In this application the bandsaw wins production wise but drop to a 6x6x 16 and on a large log and the Peterson shines. 

[blackhawk]

Talked to a older gentleman that really run a 8" swing blade and slabbed some big stuff with the clip on slabber. He could do 60 slabs in a day. He worked for a couple sawmills a few times a month for some big 💰 and did the bigger stuff they couldn't do. From the planing capabilities to all the things he loved about the swing mill the only complaint he had was it's hard work but the results are fantastic with the three different capabilities

I just got my 7-23 with slabber in April 2022.  I have done 4 slabbing jobs so far.  I would take that "60 slabs per day" number with a grain of salt.  That is really dependent on the width, length, and species of the slabs where he could cut 60 in a single day.  It's possible, but it would have to be some softer wood with a 12-16" diameter and 8' lengths.  Plus you would need 2 guys standing there ready to pull off the slab and a tractor/loader ready to set down the next log.  I did a 48" wide x 8' long red oak and with a brand new chain and it took 9 minutes of pure sawing time.  With handling the slabs, getting the mill ready for the next cut, sharpening, etc., I was doing good to get 4 slabs per hour on that 48" wide log, probably averaged 3.5 per hour.  I guess that I could have gotten 60 if I had worked a 15 hour day and had more logs 

I picked the 7-23 because it is the same engine and gearbox used on the dedicated slabber per Bailey's.  (I asked 2 separate guys at Bailey's and got the same answer.)  With the circular blade, the 7" will cut 7-7/8" wide and the 8" machine cuts 8-1/2" wide, so you only lose 5/8".  The 7" will out slab the 8" and 10" per Bailey's, but you probably lose some production speed on the circular blade cutting.  The 7" was $3500 cheaper than the 8".

I have only done 4 money jobs for others and they have all wanted slabs.  Slabs still seem to be the hot item, at least in my area.

[Walnut Beast]

These are the current prices of both brands. Peterson is definitely substantially more money than Lucas and they have been that way for years so that's nothing new. With Peterson it's October delivery of shipping container arriving. The previous two were full with people waiting for their new ones. Lucas is around August for the bigger motor units from Baileys. They said they put in a big order for 60 units

 

 

[Walnut Beast]

Paul that could do 60 slabs in a day with the clip on slabber on the 8" Peterson with the 27hp wasn't doing any little stuff. The logs he would slab for the mills at their place were walnut ones they couldn't do over 36"

[Walnut Beast]

Have you guys with the clip on slabbers tried running the blade on each side of the slab that your going to cut??  I come across some guys doing this

[longtime lurker]

Mostly what I slabbed was that big that wasn't an option, and you'd be taking the slabber on and off all the time unless you had two units or a dedicated slabber anyway.

I did make it a habit to bark and/or pressure clean all logs before slabbing, but a little chainsaw mounted debarker would do the same. Chains get blunt fast enough cutting wood without coating it in mud or sand as well.

[Walnut Beast]

Thanks for the tip! I'll keep that in mind 👍

[Walnut Beast]

Going with that Honda IGX 800. After talking with Peterson they say it performs better than the 27 hp Kohler. On the Honda site they compare it and looks impressive.

[Walnut Beast]

Turbo Saw Automated Warrior or the manual swing blades ??. Does anybody out there have one or seen one in action?? Looking for some feedback on them 

[Ianab]

It's a trade off. 


The auto mills are good, and will cut more wood with less work. But they cost more, weigh more, and there are a few more parts to break. The big advantages of the manual swing blade is it's simplicity, relatively low cost, and portability. You start to give a bit of that away as you add more automation. (But you do gain production)   :P

[Walnut Beast]

Looking forward to a Peterson swing mill, slabber ,planer and sanding attachments. Nice to be able to talk to someone at the company that picks up the phone and it happens to be the owner of the company. She was very pleasant and knowledgeable as her Dad invented the mill. She assured me of customer satisfaction and is of top priority. They have never had one mill sent back of someone being dissatisfied. And when they make a mistake the own up to it. Kinda company I look forward to dealing with. Just like Timberking!! 

[Walnut Beast]

Peterson swing blade guys getting it done! 7" x32"x 42'

 

[chep]

One area not touched on is waste. I have found i produce very manageble slabs/edgings. As in pretty small and light. 
The other thing not to be over looked is the sheer volume of sawdust produced by a swing blade. Its alot!! Its fluffier, and adds up quick. I know on a bandmill the sawdust is fine and very compact. Even manage witha 5 gal bucket to catch it. No chance on a swingblade. Sawdust goes everywhere!  And ends up underfoot adding a new hazard to the process. 
I dont mind sawdust as i am learning to turn it into compost to use on the farm but if you didnt have a good outlet for it i would see it as a huge obstacle to overcome. Just 2cents