iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

"Siberian house" of pine thermal.

Started by serg, January 29, 2013, 11:01:57 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jay C. White Cloud

 ;D Welcome to the Forestry Forum Arthur, glad to have you!  ;D

Regards,

Jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

isawlogs

 This is very interesting to me.
Is the pine in the kiln the average size of pine in your area ?
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Arthur Beck

Yes, this is average size Siberian pine.
But we use a bit another logs. My TF workshop is located in West Ukraine nearby Karpaty mountains. So, we use local fir and spruce (there is very few of pinetrees). And we order special sized logs minimum 40-50 cm and up to 1 m diameter (see photos) in order to avoid boxed heart sawing. Center-cut timbers are much better for kiln drying.



 

  

 

isawlogs

  I like the set up, when I saw for timber frames we have an all terrain crane to help out.

I would like a pic and dicsription of the mill you are using for sawing of the logs, how big and how long of a log can it saw  ???
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Arthur Beck

Our mill and planer were made by one local guy according to our need. They both move on railway from different sides of it. The log length is limited by railway (about 10 m). Diameter limits 1 m.


  

 

isawlogs

 Great pictures, thanks for sharing.

Do the planner and the mill run on the same track ???
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Jay C. White Cloud

Hello Arthur,

I would love to know more about you timber framing history.  Do you work in folk style or more modern style.  The traditional timber frames of the Karpaty Mountains are beautiful.  Where did you learn to cut timber frames?

Regards, 

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Arthur Beck

Quote from: isawlogs on February 18, 2013, 12:39:08 PM
Great pictures, thanks for sharing.

Do the planner and the mill run on the same track ???
Yes, from different sides. We use the same track double.
Quote from: Jay C. White Cloud on February 18, 2013, 12:46:01 PM
Hello Arthur,

I would love to know more about you timber framing history.  Do you work in folk style or more modern style.  The traditional timber frames of the Karpaty Mountains are beautiful.  Where did you learn to cut timber frames?
It's a bit another history,seems not for this topic about siberian house.  :) In fact I've told my TF history in details at the biggest Russian forum, where I have topic named "Timber Frame - we can do it". But it is in Russian. Now I make my website. Perhaps part of it will be in English. As well I plan to participate TF topics of this forum and TF Guild forum.
We do not build TF of Karpaty Mountains. We make traditional Timber Frame as it was defined by Tedd Benson, Steve Chappel and other TF guru. I learn this art by their books, websites and other sources, mostly from USA, Canada and Britain. Plus our own creativity...

Seaman

Welcome Authur,
Love this thread, would love to see more pics of outdoor TF shelters.
Frank
Lucas dedicated slabber
Woodmizer LT40HD
John Deere 5310 W/ FEL
Semper Fi

clww

Fascinating thread. :)
Please keep posting. :)
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

WmFritz

~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

serg

Hello friends!
Arthur makes vacuum drying + thermal. I did a vacuum drying function with thermal volume of 3 m3. I'm looking for furniture style "country" or "cowboy style" in Timberfreym. New home I'll put pictures on the forum.
Sergey.




serg

Hello friends!
Wooden house on Lake Baikal, Irkutsk, Siberia. Pine Thermo diameter 350 mm w = 5.6 %. Canadian technology, popular in Russia this method of construction.
In America, this method works?
Sergey






thecfarm

A very interseting thread.  ;D    I'm glad I choose to look at it.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

kderby

Serge and Arthur,

Thank you for sharing your side of the world with us.  It is really interesting to see how you get things done!

Kderby

serg

Thank you. We do new experiments, rezultataet report on the forum.
Serg

Thehardway

Serg,

Thanks for sharing your experience with this process.  Typical North American log homes use solid logs only for the outside shell and not for interior division walls.   Non load bearing interior walls are usually done with 2"x4" dimensional SPF framing lumber.   Using solid logs for interior walls would be questionable economically because of  labor costs for assembling, boring for electrical wiring and plumbing interior.  Most floor systems are not engineered for the increased weight of log interior walls either.  We like to have free spanning basement areas.  That said I think it is an interesting concept.  It needs to be further explored.

I am unaware of any US or Canadian regulation that would prevent the use of your logs for building in the manner you have shown.  Any strength reduction due to heating would be offset by the fact that in your building style there is no deflection.  All walls are built with logs in compression.  Strength would not be a factor unless the Thermologs were sawn into dimensional lumber after drying.

As to laminated logs, there are very few manufacturers using laminated log construction here due to cost reasons. ( I can think of only one)

We have a large market for structural laminated wood products that come in many shapes sizes and purposes.  Here are a few:

Glulam-  Typically made from multiple layers of KD dimensional lumber layered end to end in a Phenolic Resin to produce beams for long spans.

Fingerjointed lumber- Short pieces of KD wood machined at ends, glued and fitted to form dimensional lumber trim, and moldings that are without knots or surface defects and are more dimensionally stable than solid lumber and easily painted.  Use of lower quality stock and waste cut off product makes up for the difference in machining and laminating expense.

LVL-  Laminated Veneer Lumber.  Multiple thin layers of veneer lumber used to make stiffer and stronger beams for longer spans than can be achieved with solid sawn lumber

LSL- Laminated Strand Lumber.  Many strands of wood fiber laid up in a glue resin to form a solid peice.  Utilizes 100% of wood stock while providing a stronger and more stable product. (or so they say)

CLT- Cross Laminated Timber.  This is the latest introduction into the North American market in terms of laminated wood product and it is yet to be seen if it will gain acceptance and widespread use.  Complete, prefabricated solid wood wall and floor panels up to 12" thick are made using multiple layers of laminated lumber.  Think plywood on a giant scale. 10' X 40'X 12" Sheets with plys 1.38" thick each.


A lot of our lumber here in the southeastern US is Southern Yellow Pine.  I am not sure it would respond well to your drying system as it often exhibits spiral grain and has a tendency to twist as it dries.  Do any of the species you work with have this problem?

As for surface laminating spruce or fir Thermologs with hardwoods such as Oak, I would be concerned with stability due to different expansion/contraction characteristics between the woods.  This could cause warping or bending and there would be little advantage over our LVL or LSL products which could be veneered with a hardwood veneer for aesthetic purposes.

I think the CLT market could use a product dried in the manner you describe.







Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

Stephen1

Such a small world that the some of the same TF construction is used such a far distance.
Did i understand the wood has increased longivity in the outdoors?
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

serg

Hello!
Translation made ​​Arthur, thank you.
Thehardway
Thank you for the useful info of wooden housebuilding technology in US.  Frame housebuilding in Russia is relatively new but it more and more people chose it every year. By ages here in Russia wooden houses have been cutted of natural moisture logs by hands. Such half-fabricated house named "srub" have been curing for 2-3 years just to let the logs to dry and shrink. After this builders fill gaps between logs by flax.
The glulam lumber became alternative. But it is expensive in Russia as well in US. We attend to dry the logs with bark due to  timber walls popularity here. HT timbers allow to populate the house just after installation without waiting for 2-3 yers. No need to fill gaps because there are no gaps and cracks. No need to protect wood against fungus and insects. The price of dry and HT logs is cheaper then glulam.
I think the qualitative multipurpose goods  based on composite materials used HT wood have to present at the market. Some years ago I experimented to glue up HT and natural dried wood. Good results I guess. I put this glulam sample  into water, than freezed it and heated up to 130 Celsius in sauna. Several circles during one month. The glue seam passed this and HT wood looks better after such extreme.On photo you can see birch plywood after HT. Glue is intact, no lamination,shrinking is 2-3 mm.
Now I deal with South Crimea pine. It also have some structural drawbacks. Inform the result at Forum later. Finally I'm sure it's possible to use such a composite material for interior and exterior trimming. As well it's possible to make hollow house panels. HT wood is excellent for basement partitions.  LVL made of HT spruce have to increase strength capacity.
Stephen1
My conclusion: HT wood is better then normal in several positions. The main ones are dimensional stability, biostability, nice color through full deepness, hardness increasing, lesser moisture absorption and swelling resistance.
Serg









Thank You Sponsors!