How can I save my white spruces damaged by children ???

[roger 4400]

       Hi everyone !!
   Last sunday, comming back from a walk in our forest, I,ve seen children in my white spruce plantation. When I went there, I,ve seen that those **little monsters** had broken +- 40 tops of my 10 years old white spruces...it was easy to get to the tops that are 8 to 10 ft but there are 4ft of snow on the ground....  ( if it was branches, it would be ok....but they broke the heads)
    Can I save my trees ??
    Can I make a nice cut so the tree will not get sick....but they will make many heads and those trees will not be good for lumber.
    Can I *prune * them? I mean by that cutting the head straight, and cut the remaining top branches and let only one branche that will make * a head and continue to grow a top ?? ( but I think this can work for hard wood, not spruce).
    I need your knowledge on this.... Thanks                              Roger












     

[Ron Scott]

That's a shame, one doesn't need such human destruction to their trees. You seem to have the right idea on trimming the damages for the best healing potential and then hope for the best on the continued tree form development.

Try to educate the kids on what they have done to set back your trees and landscape and the seriousness of their destruction.

[roger 4400]

     Thanks Ron for your reply...That day I followed the kids to their home and had a talk with the parents. Together we went back to my plantation...the parents were truly sorry....What I might do is trying to get other young plants and close by the *wounded *trees plant a small one that I,ll put facing south so they,ll grow fast and in many years if the wounded tree in not nice, simply cut it, the young one will replace it. But the parents are aware that I,ve lost 10 years of growing trees.
   When I,ll have my young trees, I,ll get the kids (5 to 9 years old) and their parents to *help* me planting the new trees, this way the kids will learn something.
    2 years ago just beside that area, I,ve planted 2,100 trees all by hand. I had those plant from our government.
                      1,000 Norgegian spruces
                         600 yellow birchs
                          500 tamaracks .
So I know what kind of job it is............
             Thank you for taking time to answer.                                     Roger

[John Bartley]

This may sound a bit strange, but..... if they aren't broken off completely (detached), can you possibly straighten them up, then wrap them with a splint (brace) under the wrap to see if they will heal and continue to grow as they were before? It seems to me that this is the ideal time of year to try this? If it doesn't work, you could prune them next year and not really lose anything?

just a thought

cheers eh?

[roger 4400]

    John, that would be nice.......but the heads were all detached from the trees .Kids were building * a nice cabin in the clearance*** .All my spruce heads were in a mass for *their* cabin....I was almost hysterical when I got to them...And a young 5 years old kid naively asked me if I liked HIS CABIN....I stood there (  I guess my face was violet) and wisely said inside me anyway it is done.....(I,m a father of 6 children...and luckily getting old..)...
    So John your solution would have been great....but the heads were 50 feet from the trees....
    Have a nice day John !                                             Roger

[Tom]

roger,
our yellow pines don't grow good when interplanted.   If you want the kids to help, for God's sake make it an adventure for them and not a punishment.  We need Foresters and intelligent woodsmen from this new generation and you have the opportunity to get some started.  Maybe even having one or two of the older ones watch you prune the wounds will interest them in Botany.  Here's a chance to be a hero.

I would pick a strong limb and make a pruning cut just above it and hope for it to develop a strong leader.  Not having the same type of trees as you, I think I would probably still make the same decision.

I would be interested in how this works out too.  Training young folks always makes a good story. 

I had the same happen to me when the Cable company drove all over my 4 year old plantation to get to their wires.   Unfortunately, I was dealing with idiot adults and could get no help from lawyers or local foresters either.   I tried, unsuccessfully, to straighten most of the trees and allowed volunteers to fill in the voids.  The volunteers have never done anything but sap strength from the planted pines.  Now I have a mess on my hands to thin to a viable plantation.   Interplanted pines here never catch up.

[beenthere]

roger
Sure brings back memories....after planting 400 white pine along some edges of fields back in the 60's, the following spring came a nice sunny spring day. My 4 kids were busy playing out back for quite some time. Later in the day they were back at the house and I asked them what they found to do back there. The youngest was 4-5, the oldest 7. They said they were logging. Hmmm?

Sure enough, they found nearly every one of those white pine, and had them pulled up and hauled in their red wagon quite a distance to their "log pile".  I don't recall getting too disgusted, as "logging" is what I enjoyed doing at that time, but I went for larger trees.  ;D ;D ;D  Two of them even were wearing my hard hats, and had written Forester in magic marker across the brim. They were very proud of their work.  ;) ;) :

About your white spruce, I cut the leader out of several Norway spruce that I wanted to stunt the growth to keep them more ornamental than tall....the result was two leaders each fighting for their space in the tree. I could now go out and remove one of the two, and be left with a pretty good stem (albeit with a kink in it). So if me, I'd clean up the fractured area, and hope for a new leader to take the open space, and cut back any competition if more than one.  But, like Tom says, enjoy the kids and help 'em grow up. 

[roger 4400]

      Tom, if I understand well it is not good to have *younger* trees mixed to older,s because they will never catch up ....( I,m french talking so the word interplanted was not *clear* in my mind)?
     Your story remind me another one...8 years ago on the same site, plants were 2 years old I was walking in my *clearance* I saw an adult on a Vtt 4 wheeler running everywere in the plantation. I ran and caught a *neighbour* ,asked what he was doing on my property .....His answer =well you have such a big land I don,t do any bad= I showed him all the bent trees ,told him to respect my land and to make him feel a littlebit stupid I asked him = from what size of land it does not belong to the owner and is everyone property????? In his eyes I know he felt stupid.....Often people make damages and do not realize what they do or do not respect others....sorry for your trees... they do not realize or they do not understand us....are we that weird?????   lol....

     Beenthere, your story made me laugh...I wish one of them is now helping you or is a logger himself...
     It is funny to look in a nice child face and see all that naive expression....they are so sure that they made a nice action and PROUD of themselves.....while our heart is bouncing in our head....and our face purple, all shaking .....
    Of course I,ll take them when I,ll fix the trees and I,ll have them plant one NEAR THE LIMITS OF MY PROPERTY and tell them it will be their tree ON MY PROPERTY...
Have a nice day...          Roger

     

[Tom]

Roger,
Yes, you understand interplanting.  The younger trees will not catch up, they get canopied over and don't produce.

Reading of your attitude toward the children makes me happy knowing that the right thing will happen.  I like the idea of their having their own tree. 

[Pullinchips]

unless they are a shade tollerant species that can grow as well in the shade and competition, but they are stillcompeting with crop trees.

[Phorester]

Interplanting among trees that are more than two years old just doesn't work.  As has been stated, the interplanted ones never catch up, are always supressed, and may eventually die from the competition.

Instead of planting new trees, maybe a better way in this instance to repair the damage as much as possible and to teach the kids is to first have the kids adopt a broken tree as "theirs".  Maybe even a tree they personally broke the top out of.  You can then show them correction pruning , if that is possible with a particular tree, or explain why it is not possible. They can then check on their tree over the years and see just how their damage affected the growth and health of the tree.

[SwampDonkey]

Depends on the species established and what you interplant with. If it's white spruce established on an old field and you choose red pine or tamarack to interplant with, they will catch up and possibly surpass the growth of the spruce. If it's being interplanted with more spruce and they are a couple years behind that isn't very significant. If it's new seedlings among 10 year old trees of the same species, spruce, then no they don't catch up. Personally I wouldn't get too excited by a handful of trees being damaged by children or in my instance moose  : , the stand would need thinning eventually. If it's a small circle of trees as large as a kitchen, a couple trees planted out in the void would survive unless your established trees are 40 feet tall or something. I have interplanted white pine among spruce that were 6 years older, it was the only way to improve their survival from weevils and I had hoped from moose. But the moose find them when they get 3 feet tall and destroy them.  Also, the hares like making paths through those spruce groves and unfortunately they like white pine candles as well as spruce shoots.  In this case it's wildlife, insects and disease that take a higher tole than competing trees. :

[SwingOak]

If you prune off the broken tip back to the next branch intersection, one or more of the branches at that junction will probably take over as the new apical meristem of the tree and continue the upward growth. Prune off the smaller ones in a year or two, so the dominant one can do its thing. The tree will have a slight crook in it, but 50 years from now the damage may not even be noticeable.