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Vintage setter

Started by JoshNZ, September 04, 2021, 02:20:49 AM

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JoshNZ

I have a confession to make, after my ~2 years of milling now and nearly 1 year of sharpening my own blades.. I have never once set one, or had one set  :-X.

I have this vintage setter let's call it, I was given it with the ltaga, don't know if someone made it or if it is a piece of factory equipment but, whatever it is it looks like it's missing some bits, and I'm not completely sure how to use it

I presume the little arms with roll pins in the end are shifters and need levers added to them? And I pass the blade around once pushing the handle forward on every third tooth, then turn it inside out and do it the other way? And I'd just tweak the adjustment bolt after measuring what set I'm achieving?

Ive been using the same 3 blades for I don't know how long now, I bring them home ram them through the ltaga then take them out to the mill and spend another half day with them. They must be on their 12th round at least, I don't know why they haven't broken. I've got about ten more of these to get through then I have got 27 brand new kasco 4 degree bands ready to go. I've used two of them, I can honestly say up until today I've not really noticed a difference in performance between one of my bands off the ltaga and the brand new kascos. Today I was doing 4" slabs in a 32" wide log and I did notice some waves with my bands. Seems about time I get the setter up and running.

So what do I need to do to this tool to get it running smoothly?

 

 


Chuck White

Looks a lot like an old Wood-Mizer setter, or perhaps a copy at least in part!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Cedarman

Quote from: Chuck White on September 04, 2021, 07:30:54 AM
Looks a lot like an old Wood-Mizer setter, or perhaps a copy at least in part!
There should be 2 screws that can be raised or lowered to adjust the height of the blade to get the gullet about level with the anvil.  There is an allen screw that goes in and out to put pressure on the tooth when the handle is pressed forward.
There should be a dial indicator installed to measure the amount of set put in the tooth. Dial and parts seem to be missing.
Also need 3 long arms with blade holding gizmos at the ends to hold the blade in place as it goes around as you sharpen.
That should get you started on whether to "upgrade" this setter.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Ljohnsaw

Click on the WM link to the left.  Pick the Sharpeners/Setters link and watch the videos on the setters.  That will show you what you are missing and how to use it.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

D6c

I haven't seen one from WM like that before.
Here are the setting tools that came with my old LT40  ('87)




The setting tool.... Insert the tooth between the two pins and pinch it shut. The slide with the wing nut adjusts in/out
to vary the amount of set.




 

......and the roller to even out the set.  The bottom bearings hold the band snugly and the top bearing 
bumps the teeth to even them up.  Run it through one way and then flip it and run it through again to do both sides.



 

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: D6c on September 04, 2021, 05:07:08 PMHere are the setting tools that came with my old LT40 ('87)

Cool.  Pretty simple.  Here is my de-setter made from timing belt rollers from my truck.


 

 
The plate is some 1/2" jig I picked up in the junk.  Not sure what it was for, the numbers don't pull up anything on the web.  The adjustable side is part of the timing belt tensioner.  Flattens (de-sets) both sides at the same time.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Chuck White

I didn't know that Wood-Mizer made a desetter for purchase, the first time I saw one was at Wood-Mizer Resharp in Hannibal, NY, it is one step in their sharpening process.

I made (had this one made) to closely duplicate the one I saw!





Works really well, drop the band down in between the rollers and pull the blade through backwards, that way you don't damage the point of the teeth!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

JoshNZ

Do you de set every band before you set? Or just if you've got a rogue tooth or hit something?

Chuck White

Every band that goes through my setter and sharpener goes through the desetter first!

Using the desetter first evens the teeth up pretty close and that will speed up the setting!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Ljohnsaw

Pretty much the same.  I don't set on every sharpen but I de-set on every set.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

JoshNZ

Great thanks for the help guys I'm pretty sure I know where I'm going with this. I saw a pile of bearings for sale on an auction site last week for a couple of dollars, thought why not they'll come in handy. Ideal..!

I'll get a desetter built and tidy this up. The three arms to carry the blade are around somewhere too.

What should I be aiming for .020"?

Ljohnsaw

.020 to .025.  What are your blades?  What HP?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

JoshNZ

22hp, they're sharpened to 4 degrees now, 7/8" pitch and 1-1/4" width from memory

Chuck White

I usually set to .025-.028
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: JoshNZ on September 06, 2021, 05:23:02 AM
22hp, they're sharpened to 4 degrees now, 7/8" pitch and 1-1/4" width from memory
I'm running .042 blades (184") x 1.25 with 7/8 pitch with 18hp.  They only came in 9° from WM at that length.  I've probably got them at 4° now with my sharpener stone wearing out but they usually cut great and fast.  The last sharpening I set them to .022 but I don't think they came out even.  Had a consistent little bit of a dive (1/8").  I'm remaking my dual tooth setter after watching the WM video.  Mine is too complicated and takes too many movements to get the job done.  Will also be making a set checker like the one shown as mine is a royal PITA to use. 

I called WM (local) almost 2 weeks ago to try and buy a BMS25.  They had to check stock to see if the one they have is available and would call back on Monday (8/30) but never did.  My sister and BIL drove out from AZ to pick up a truck so I was sidetracked all last week and didn't call them back.  Holiday today so I'll try tomorrow.  You'd think they would want to make a sale...
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

JustinW_NZ

Pretty sure I've seen one of those in NZ before
Fairly sure they were a woodmizer one, looks the same as mine other than mine has a spin handle not the pull/push lever...

And not setting bands for a year?!? wow - do mine every sharpen :)

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

JoshNZ

Yeah it does look like a woodmizer.

It's not as if I have no set, I can still quite obviously see it. They've been going well, even compared to new ones. So it's hard to spend more than 2 minutes burning on the ltaga when it's been working haha.

I have one blade cutting stripes so my hand has been forced now

JoshNZ

Quote from: D6c on September 04, 2021, 05:07:08 PM
I haven't seen one from WM like that before.
Here are the setting tools that came with my old LT40  ('87)




The setting tool.... Insert the tooth between the two pins and pinch it shut. The slide with the wing nut adjusts in/out
to vary the amount of set.




 

......and the roller to even out the set.  The bottom bearings hold the band snugly and the top bearing
bumps the teeth to even them up.  Run it through one way and then flip it and run it through again to do both sides.




Is the top bearing slightly larger than the lower bearings? I made one of these today based on my brief memory from having seen this picture last week, seems to be a total waste of time haha.

I spread the bearings only as wide as the blade is and stacked 3 up each side, all identical. I can drag it through and feel the teeth coming through the bearings but it certainly doesn't straighten the teeth, maybe knocks .1mm off them, if that.

I put a band through the setter both ways today. I can see once I had the technique practiced I would get through it pretty quick but it's not as trivial as sending it around the sharpener

JustinW_NZ

Setting is so much more painful that sharpening! (in my view)
I cant wait to purchase an automatic unit  ;D

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

JoshNZ

Yeah that's a good word for it..

JoshNZ

I am getting quicker with the setter I'd say I can get around a band in one direction quicker than the sharpener now.

Have to say, it feels like I'm doing nothing, which isn't helpful.

I've done a bunch of bands tonight at different sets so will do a bit of learning tomorrow.

I had one thought, rather than desetting and then setting, could you invert your set? Leave the straight ones alone and push the set right across (turn inside teeth outwards and vice versa). Would remove any chance of there being a tooth lying outside of the set range (though after some time at this I think it's easy enough to spot those). Or would it fatigue the tooth too much?



 

Chuck White

In a word, NO, because that's to much stress on the structure of the tooth and it will snap off prematurely!

When running a band through the desetter (similar to mine), the process doesn't remove all of the set, it leaves .010-.012 of the set!

The amount of set left in the blade depends on how close the two rollers are to each other!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

JoshNZ

I suspected that might be the case.

I placed those bearings with a 1.1mm gap which is about the thickness of the band but it just doesn't seem to do much to the set. It's a snug fit on the band it couldn't be much closer together

I think a better idea would be to turn rollers for the bearings, the left roller just a bit shorter than the gullet and the right roller taller than the band, with a bit of a step out at tooth height. Enough step out that it pushes the tooth further but not so much that it pushes the neutral teeth past their yeilding point.

RAYAR

I'd say with de-setting the blade, all you're really doing is to decrease the setting to less than what you will be re-setting the blade to.
mobile manual mill (custom build) (mods & additions on-going)
Custom built auto band sharpener (currently under mods)
Husqvarna 50, 61, 254XP (and others)
96 Polaris Sportsman 500
2006 Ranger 4X2 w/cap, manual trans (430,000 Km)

JoshNZ

Yeah I realise that. I measured a tooth that was set .05mm and I don't think it changed by dragging it through the 1.1mm bearings.

The set blades all went well yesterday anyway, nice consistent surface finishes. I over set one just for experiences sake. Even that went well, though noticeable more horsepower required and thicker kerf. Might've useful in pitchy softwoods?

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