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Single best purchase to aid your work?

Started by Daburner87, October 10, 2021, 10:22:32 PM

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YellowHammer

My New Holland dealership installed a WR Long Third Function kit on my new 100 hp tractor, with warranty.  That will tell you about the quality of the WR Long kit.  It is used for my grapple, and it works great.  Easy to install in any tractor, and they have a good website, and I've talked to them on the phone, they had very good technical assistance.

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Resonator

Thanks for the info, I'll do some research what's available locally. smiley_thumbsup
To keep on thread having a grapple makes a huge improvement lifting and setting logs onto a mill, as well as picking up slabs or branches.
Under bark there's boards and beams, somewhere in between.
Cuttin' while its green, through a steady sawdust stream.
I'm chasing the sawdust dream.

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

PoginyHill

I purchased the 3rd function kit from Kubota for my M7060. About $1,000. I did the installation myself - it was pretty straightforward. The hydraulic fittings, pipe, and new handle with switch were all OEM and make for a slick addition. I looked at aftermarket kits, but didn't consider them very seriously. I thought the installation might have been a bit more "clumsy".
Kubota M7060 & B2401, Metavic log trailer, Cat E70B, Cat D5C, 750 Grizzly ATV, Wallenstein FX110, 84" Landpride rotary hog, Classic Edge 750, Stihl 170, 261, 462

bushhog920


aigheadish

I'm not yet doing the sawing you guys are doing but a year or two after we bought 6 acres of partially wooded land I rented a backhoe that was handy enough that I went and spent more on a used backhoe than a new Honda Civic. It's been hugely helpful, though maybe not a great tool for loading a mill. I got some clamp-on forks for it a few months ago and the first use was moving a pretty big log that was absolutely no problem. Setting it down precisely was a different story. 
New Holland LB75b, Husqvarna 455 Rancher, Husqvarna GTH52XLS, Hammerhead 250, Honda VTX1300 for now and probably for sale (let me know if you are interested!)

scsmith42

My lineup looks similar to Jakes (except my big loader is bigger than his... 8)).  If I could only have one machine, it would be my Cat 420Dit Backhoe.  It is strong (8000 lb capacity), and has a quick attach bucket / forks for alternating between handling logs, lumber, and removing sawdust.  Plus the backhoe function is very handy here on the farm.

The second most used piece of equipment for log handling is a skid steer with a grapple fork on the front.  I prefer it for long handling because the grapple works like a set of fingers for picking up and rolling logs, plus the operators seat is so close that it's easiest to work.  It's good for around 3,600 lbs.

The big loader is great for handling large stacks of lumber, and the oversized logs that we slab.  It can pick up a 20,000 lb log.

Although I started with a farm tractor (65hp Kioti), it is not as powerful as the backhoe or maneuverable as the skid steer.  It's better than nothing though, but the backhoe and skid steer are better choices.

I don't currently have a telehandler, but have used them before.  I still find the backhoe / skid steer to be more versatile around the mill.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Southside

Scott I figured you would say the crane was the most convent log handling piece since you can load the mill from half way across the farm.   :D
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Bruno of NH

Quote from: YellowHammer on October 14, 2021, 07:43:15 AM
My New Holland dealership installed a WR Long Third Function kit on my new 100 hp tractor, with warranty.  That will tell you about the quality of the WR Long kit.  It is used for my grapple, and it works great.  Easy to install in any tractor, and they have a good website, and I've talked to them on the phone, they had very good technical assistance.
I had the Long kit on my last 2 tractors .
Worked great .
Would buy one again for a tractor.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Percy

I think every piece I buy is the best thing ever......till I use it for a while....I got this puppty in the spring and while it had alot of cobweb issues from sitting for 20 years, Im still in the honeymoon stage with it......

 
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

Southside

I honestly don't know how I ever got along without my Lull. It gets used daily for multiple parts of our business. A farm tractor just can't compete with them when it comes to material handling.

I modified mine so it has a quick tack set up on the front, takes seconds to switch from bucket, to forks, to grapple. Also did some plumbing work so it runs low flow skid steer accessories as well, have a power broom it runs awesome with. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

longtime lurker

Bull, James, Andrea, Ben... now Eddie. Doesn't matter the name the concept remains the same: Purchasing skilled labour has always been the best money I've spent. 

One thing I've had to learn and relearn in my life is you don't get twice the work done with 2 capable men, you get three or more times as much done. 

(There's also a list of names that didn't work out, but you just have to weed through enough to find a good one)
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Ventryjr

Got tired of messing with tractors and bought a CTL.   Kubota svl-75 
-2x belsaw m14s and a Lane circle mill.

aigheadish

@scsmith42 Can you tell me a little about your quick change bucket on the backhoe? I'm assuming you mean the loader bucket? Did you do the change? How's it work? Expensive? I'd love to be able to flop off the bucket to have forks I could see. I'd also love a thumb for the hoe side and it looks almost reasonable to attach, other than the extendahoe part... And it sounds like hydraulic thumbs are kind of a pain to do properly.
New Holland LB75b, Husqvarna 455 Rancher, Husqvarna GTH52XLS, Hammerhead 250, Honda VTX1300 for now and probably for sale (let me know if you are interested!)

customsawyer

I have the same backhoe as Scott. He is correct in that if I could only have one that would be the piece. The quick coupler comes from the factory. The backhoe is a Cat420IT the IT stands for integrated tool carrier. I have a manual thumb on mine and it is priceless. I can use it to even unload log trucks with really high bolsters or customers trailers with sides. It is also great for handling timbers for crane mats and such. I wouldn't use it for timber frame timbers as it will leave marks in the timbers. The coupler on my articulated loader I think is a JIB. It is a after market coupler. Google them and see if they offer one for your backhoe.  
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

mudfarmer

Not doing the same level of work as most of you but chiming in on loading mill with forks vs. grapple. You don't have to slam the logs on the mill from the forks, I level them to rails like a log deck and roll log on with Peavey. Not great, but better than just dumping the log on to slam the mill. When the mill gets moved to a better spot it will just get a dedicated infeed deck like many have posted examples of here as I need other things more than a grapple right now, as nice as it would be to have.

Resonator

Forks vs. grapple is a matter of steps in growth. A grapple and forks is a step up from forks, forks are a step up from loading logs with a tractor bucket and chain, and that's a step up from rolling logs up ramps. If your sawing only occasionally, you can get by with the minimum. As I'm building a sawmilling business, I try to make improvements in the operation to make it easier and more efficient as I grow.
Under bark there's boards and beams, somewhere in between.
Cuttin' while its green, through a steady sawdust stream.
I'm chasing the sawdust dream.

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

scsmith42

Quote from: customsawyer on October 15, 2021, 06:49:02 AM
I have the same backhoe as Scott. He is correct in that if I could only have one that would be the piece. The quick coupler comes from the factory. The backhoe is a Cat420IT the IT stands for integrated tool carrier. I have a manual thumb on mine and it is priceless. I can use it to even unload log trucks with really high bolsters or customers trailers with sides. It is also great for handling timbers for crane mats and such. I wouldn't use it for timber frame timbers as it will leave marks in the timbers. The coupler on my articulated loader I think is a JIB. It is a after market coupler. Google them and see if they offer one for your backhoe.  
Quote from: aigheadish on October 15, 2021, 06:38:36 AM
@scsmith42 Can you tell me a little about your quick change bucket on the backhoe? I'm assuming you mean the loader bucket? Did you do the change? How's it work? Expensive? I'd love to be able to flop off the bucket to have forks I could see. I'd also love a thumb for the hoe side and it looks almost reasonable to attach, other than the extendahoe part... And it sounds like hydraulic thumbs are kind of a pain to do properly.
Jake did a great job of answering.  It only takes around 30 seconds to uninstall the bucket / fork assembly, a minute to reposition the tractor, and another 30 seconds to attach and lock the next attachment.
Additionally, there are hydraulic lines available at the front of the tool carrier so that a custom grapple could be built and operated from the cab.
Mine is an extend-a-hoe model, which is not as ideal for a thumb because of the extending arm.  It's still doable, just not as optimum.

Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

firefighter ontheside

As with @Resonator  my Kubota tractor with forks has been invaluable.  I liked it a lot when it just had a bucket, but with forks its much more useful.  I rarely put the bucket back on it.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

longtime lurker

Quote from: Resonator on October 15, 2021, 12:54:41 PM
Forks vs. grapple is a matter of steps in growth. A grapple and forks is a step up from forks, forks are a step up from loading logs with a tractor bucket and chain, and that's a step up from rolling logs up ramps. If your sawing only occasionally, you can get by with the minimum. As I'm building a sawmilling business, I try to make improvements in the operation to make it easier and more efficient as I grow.
Truth there. But, if someone was to ask me I'd tell them to reach: Buy the machine that's too big, the saw thats too fast, design the shed with room to extend, spend a few more dollars than you intended.

Maybe 6 or 7 years back I knew I was getting serious about the business of milling, and that it was shifting from a sideline operation to a core business. And I had the chance to buy the perfect "too much" machine but it was a reach and when I asked some guys who could have helped me in terms of prepaid sales etc and not felt a thing I got told " You have to crawl before you can walk". And these guys were buying like $200k a year of product off me at the time

What I'll tell you today is that if you only buy equipment that will help you crawl, you'll spend all of your life on your knees. (And I'll also tell you to be aware that sometimes people have a vested interest in keeping you there.)

That saw I didn't get because I just couldn't afford it - and only just couldn't, I was about $30k short of the mark  - yeah well not having that saw has cost me at least $5 million in turnover in the 5 years since. It would have paid itself off in the first year just with the value of the work I didnt take/lost because I didnt have the capacity to do a lot of jobs. When I had the dozers it was the same... I never lost a lot of work because the machines were too big, but I lost an awful lot because they were too small.

And that's my $0.02 on buying equipment.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Resonator

Truth there too, LL. The hardest part is starting out with a small business. The first year you're learning (and I'm still learning) all the aspects of the business, not just turning round logs into square boards. Also proving to yourself and your family that the dream will fly, and not crash and burn. Unless you have a large nest egg or inheritance to pay for everything, you will be dealing with debt. I've seen many other businesses fail in less than a year, because they got in over their heads before they were established and knew how to run a business. Each individual should educate themselves before they first buy equipment, what they need, and how much debt they take on.
My $0.02.
Under bark there's boards and beams, somewhere in between.
Cuttin' while its green, through a steady sawdust stream.
I'm chasing the sawdust dream.

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

stavebuyer

No doubt going too "small" can cost you but it will seldom sink you. Whenever I "needed" additional equipment its was never more than a phone call away. When you need cash to cover payments is when people won't return your calls. When I fired the bankers and the equipment insurance companies is when I really gained ground.



longtime lurker

I totally agree with that too, I took a lot of baby steps, and it's not like I have it all figured yet.

But there's a point at which you know you want to do this, and that you probably can do this ( for nothing in life is guaranteed)... and at that point you need to start thinking beyond this week/month/year and start taking prudent risk.

Buying saws and loaders etc when you're a sawmiller is prudent risk... it not speculative so much as an investment in your future prosperity.
Dunno, I went years keeping my debts at a level where I could manage them if I had to go get a job. And then at a level where I could manage them if I had a job plus sawed part time. And I've had that job for a month here or there along the way to smooth cashflow along. But at no point during that job did I ever think I was anything but a sawmiller.

If I could do it all again, I'd have bet the house on that too much saw five years ago. Even if I'd failed at least I'd know I'd had a real crack at it, but I caved to wifely pressure about the potential downside. Somewhere in the other list of things I've learnt is that a partner/wife who doesn't share your goals isn't the right one either, seems I need to learn all my lessons the hard way.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

btulloh

A bit of a sidebar, but an important aspect that can help justify buying the first piece equipment is the many tasks it will help with besides the sawmill chores. Whether it's a tractor with FEL, skid steer, forklift, or whatever it will get used for many things and you'll wonder how you got by without it. Firewood chores, cleaning up the yard, plowing snow, lifting the side of a trailer to check the bearings, working on the lawn mower, processing a buffalo, etc., etc., etc.  

Of course it goes without saying that buying more equipment is just part of the sawdust addiction.  :D  Not all wives understand and support this, but having a long list of benefits can help swing the vote. (I can't think of many any tasks a new pair of diamond earrings can be used for.)
HM126

btulloh

(Just to bring this back towards the original intent, the OP is talking about a hobby situation. )
HM126

stavebuyer

Quote from: longtime lurker on October 15, 2021, 07:43:01 PM
I totally agree with that too, I took a lot of baby steps, and it's not like I have it all figured yet.

But there's a point at which you know you want to do this, and that you probably can do this ( for nothing in life is guaranteed)... and at that point you need to start thinking beyond this week/month/year and start taking prudent risk.

Buying saws and loaders etc when you're a sawmiller is prudent risk... it stops being risky and starts being an investment in your business.
Dunno, I went years keeping my debts at a level where I could manage them if I had to go get a job. And then at a level where I could manage them if I had a job plus sawed part time. And I've had that job for a month here or there along the way to smooth cashflow along. But at no point during that job did I ever think I was anything but a sawmiller.

If I could do it all again, I'd have bet the house on that too much saw five years ago. Even if I'd failed at least I'd know I'd had a real crack at it, but I caved to wifely pressure about the potential downside. Somewhere in the other list of things I've learnt is that a partner/wife who doesn't share your goals isn't the right one either, seems I need to learn all my lessons the hard way.
You really summed it up right there. Wifey pressure will doom you period. You have to keep doubling down to get anywhere. When you have nothing to loose its not all that big of a gamble and borrow. If you have the business neither is borrowing for an expansion or upgrade. Borrowing to built it in hopes the business will follow is what will sink you.

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