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light chainsaw, Pro, farm or consumer?

Started by JimMartin9999, January 28, 2007, 12:17:20 PM

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JimMartin9999

I want to buy a light saw  on the net for my 16 year old who has no experience with saws.  I use a 59 cc Husky and am happy with it.  I saw the list of Huskeys from 137,142, 334T, 338XPT, 339XP, 340, and 350, all in the small size, light  range.  I will  also  probably use  it for limbing and "Walking around the woods looking for whatever" but for  this summer, I am looking for a saw which will take down hemlocks up to 8 inch DBH for my inexperienced son: standard sized.

My question is this, How do I know what the  quality of the saws are.

People talk about pro quality, and farm quality, consumer quality but I don´t know what              that means and don´t know  in the case of each saw how this translates into dollar value.  I use a saw  about 40 hours a week about 5 weeks a  year.  Not that many hours per year but when I use it , it has to function all day.

NOTE FROM ADMIN This thread has been edited heavily from its original form do to inappropriate posting conduct for the Forestry Forum. We have tried to edit the thread back and maintain as much continuity as possible instead of loosing it completely in the "Woodshed" as it contains some good content. We apologize if you still find a reference or two within it that might not make complete sense.

Jeff...
Jim

sawguy21

Of the saws you list, I believe both of you would be happiest with the 340/350. Both are lightweight yet will last a long time as a first saw. As he gains experience and wants more, he could upgrade to a more professional model. The 137/142 are made by Poulan, which Husqvarna owns, and IMHO, would be a disappointment. They are more for the homeowner wanting to limb or cut a little firewood. The others are aimed at the pro arborist.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Cut4fun

Of the saws on your list. I would take the Husky 350.

JimMartin9999

What about the 339xp and 334t and 338xpt models?
I was also thinking about getting a 12 inch bar--for safety concerns.
I have the impression that 50cc would be a bit heavy for my son and  for strolling through the woods for me.
Jim

Kevin

Stay away from the top handled saws, they are designed for arborists working in trees not for use on the ground .

beenthere

Not knowing your 16 yr old son, but when I was 16, I could handle a bigger saw than the 20" bar I use now, much easier. Not sure why a small saw would be better than a regular size saw that is needed to do the work. Sounds like you are putting your son down.  No offense meant here, for sure.  :)

As long as the son has (and uses) the safety equipment, has lessons on safety, and can follow your lead to cut trees, logs, and limbs in a safe manner, saw size shouldn't be a question, IMO. I think the small saws with tiny bars and chains are more dangerous than big saws. Bigger saws have some mass to them, which for me, causes less "kick-back" reaction from the bar and chain being in the cut wrong.

Does your son want a saw?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

ComputerUser

A couple thoughts:

-First off, skip the top handles.  They serve their purpose beautifully - use off the ground - but are less than ideal for normal use.  A rear handle version of a climbing saw, like the 339, would be OK.

-Of the saws you listed, the Husqvarna 350 is a highly respected 50cc saw for serious homeowner-type use.  Though it has a plastic body, it is still light and durable.  A saw like this, with a 15/16" bar, would be a good all-around saw for a younger person to learn on and run until his wants/needs demand a bigger saw.

-If you want to go smaller, then I'd skip the 137/142 and give serious consideration to the little Echos like the CS346, which you can get brand-new for $180 shipped on eBay.  At 7.5lbs dry, it is a very light little saw.  What it lacks in power it makes up for in being light, nimble, durable, and cheap.  A 14" bar with good chain, and a mild muffler modification, makes for a good combination on these saws.

-If you have a dealer nearby or can find a new one on eBay, the little Dolmar 401 (or in blue, Makita DSC401) is a hell of a nice little 40cc saw.  I finally got to run one the other day and I was VERY impressed - this saw can actually get real work done!  Pro-grade construction - bolt-on cylinder, magnesium crankcase, decompression valve - and a weight of 8.8lbs makes for a nice combination.  Really, really benefits from gutting the multiple baffles from inside the muffler, though.  $250 new.


Corley5

I'd buy another 59cc saw and give him the old one  ;) ;D :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Simonian

I would buy him a good safety helmet and chaps to go along with the saw.

snowman

As someone above said, a bigger saw is a safer saw. To me, a small saw is for limbing your backyard tree. If you want to really cut anything you need 4 cubes.As for your kid, geeez he's 16.Buy him a decent size saw, a pair of suspenders with a leather shoulder pad.He can stroll through the woods with the saw over his shoulder whisteling a happy tune and with 4 cubes at his disposal, hes golden :)

Simonian

He may even want a set of weights to help build his mussels up.
Mostly to just impress the girls. It also helps build self-esteem.
I do not know if this is why youngest son became EMT certified during is Senior year and then started driving for the volunteer ambulance here in town. There were some other influences that lead him in that direction but he did have enough confidence to go that way.

logwalker

I have 9 saws here at the spread and one is a 350 Husky. It is a very capable yet lightweight saw that I use almost everyday. Get the 350. Joe
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

jokers

I agree with those who have stated that the 340/350(what did they forget the 345?) are very good saws for less than pro use and I also agree with snowman that a good 4 cube saw should make your son and yourself capable of dealing with almost any tree that you may encounter. A heavier saw also absorbs the reactive force of a kickback better than a light saw, as a few have stated, but the more powerful saw generates a greater reactive force to begin with and is also likely to have a larger diameter bar nose which results in a larger kickback prone area of the tip, and don`t forget that chaps are less effective at slowing down a more powerful saw should the opportunity for their use present itself.

Not knowing you or your 16 yr old son Jim, let me present an alternative.

When I was looking for my son's first saw he was a little younger than your son is so I wanted to get him a lightweight saw that would produce minimal kickback and produce the least amount of fatigue in him while still cutting wood well enough that he would not be frustrated or umimpressed by it`s ability to cut stuff. Using this logic I settled on a Stihl ms180 with a 14" bar and the .043 gauge chain. This chain is so small that it looks silly and toylike, but keep it sharp and it cuts surprisingly well. This small saw should not ever present too much danger of cutting through his chaps before jamming, if that ever occurs, and the low power of the engine should both teach my son the value of listening to the engine and staying in the peak power band as well as the value of keeping the chain sharp. These last two points are lost on so many adult operators that I want to teach him the right way from the ground up, furthermore, kickback potential is minimized at WOT so having him learn to operate in the powerband should make him a safer operator when he gets into the big saws.

Don`t laugh at the ms180 until you`ve really tried one and, ummm yes, I know what truly powerful saws are like by comparison. The cs346 that computeruser mentioned would probably also fit the bill but I`m not sure that they are outfitted with the .043 chain, which I feel is very important in this equation.

jokers

I also want to add that things happen slower with a small saw which may be safer, although I wouldn`t want to fell anything but very small trees with one. Less power gives the operator more time to anticipate what is going to finally happen, as in the case of cutting springpoles or bent under and twisted branches. Less power will also make a new operator more conscious of not allowing the chain to pinch and either sticking the saw or possibly throwing the chain when cutting a small branch or tree under tension. A person can`t brute force their way through when using a small saw so they are forced to learn good habits and develop finesse.

Al_Smith

To add to this,a somewhat higher performance saw has a tendency to kicked back rather harshly to the less experianced operator.

The worst kicking saw I have is an 048 Stihl,which I think still is the highest power to weight ratio saw that Stihl made,could be wrong on that.However,that aside,something with that power to weight really needs to be kept in check.

Those big old Mac 125's are heavy and powerfull,they seldom kick back but have a tendency to try and pull you,saw and all through the log if you don't get the dawgs hooked in.I suppose a big Stihl or Husqvarna would do the same.

rebocardo

> for my 16 year old who has no experience with saws

Bigger saws and more aggressive chains means more chance of injury. If I had started with a Husky 3120 I would most likely have been dead or injuried.

So, shop by chain first. .325 safety chain as an example.

Look for a saw running 91 safety chain so the chance of kickback are greatly reduced.

My first gas powered saw was a Poulan 2375 Wildthing with a 18" bar (runs the above chain). I think it is a good beginners saw and if it gets broken in the woods it will not be as painful as losing a Husky that costs 3x as much.

I have a Stihl MS-180c and running the replacement chain from Bailey's, it is a great little saw and completly capable of cutting that 8" hemlock you mentioned. Comes with a 14" and you get about 12" of usable bar. Very light and agile and it feels good/natural to use yet not powerful enough to knock you on your behind with a kickback.

I think it would make a good 1st saw if you have something against Poulans or you are looking at something light for carrying or on an ATV .



SawTroll

Quote from: Cut4fun on January 28, 2007, 01:04:51 PM
Of the saws on your list. I would take the Husky 350.

Yep, unless I wanted it to be as light as possible - then it would be a 339xp, but there is no need for that for "normal" use....... ;D
Information collector.

SawTroll

Quote from: JimMartin9999 on January 28, 2007, 01:11:41 PM
What about the 339xp and 334t and 338xpt models?
I was also thinking about getting a 12 inch bar--for safety concerns.
I have the impression that 50cc would be a bit heavy for my son and  for strolling through the woods for me.

Stay a long way from the tophandles.

A 12" bar might as well be a safety hazard as an asset, if it doesn't reach all the way trough the wood.

Edit; After reading all the posts, I have reconsidered a bit  - and actually will suggest the 339xp, with a 15" bar and 95VP/H30 chain.

That one doesn't have too much power, but it is light, and probably will be fun to use.
The handles are far apart, which makes it easy to control.
Information collector.

sawguy21

 A little overpriced for the occasional user though.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

SawTroll

Quote from: sawguy21 on February 01, 2007, 01:15:35 AM
A little overpriced for the occasional user though.

That may be true, here it cost about the same as the 353........ :)
Information collector.

luke2

I see computer user beat me to it,, but if you want something small that can actually do real work,, I'd suggest looking at a Dolmar 401. Very light, reliable, and with an opened up muffler, might suprise you. I had a 50cc saw go out of service this weekend and used my 401 for some 8-10 firewood cutting. It really did pretty good.

My boy is still too small for a saw, but I have already decided that my 401 will be his starter. Light, chain brake works well (field tested!), decent power, seems easy to handle.

Someone in the business told me that it used to be Dolmars no. 1 seller in Europe, but I sometimes think I am the only person in the US with one. I think it would be very attractive to ppl looking at the small homeowner Stihls and Husky's.

old_hb

For the heavier expensive ones, get a Stihl or Husky, but my experience with the Husky and Stihl "consumer saws" has been terrible!!! I like the Echo CS 346. It's easy to start, relatively safe and light.
Having 2 Husky 365's;  1 Husky 372; 1 Stihl 36 (now a 361) ; 1 Stihl 660; 2 echo cs 346; 1 stihl 200t; 1 echo 341, and having given or thrown away several husky 336's; a husky 45 and a Husky 50, I would definitely recommend the Echo as a starter saw.

jokers

Quote from: old_hb on February 10, 2007, 01:16:22 PM
For the heavier expensive ones, get a Stihl or Husky, but my experience with the Husky and Stihl "consumer saws" has been terrible!!! I like the Echo CS 346. It's easy to start, relatively safe and light.
Having 2 Husky 365's;  1 Husky 372; 1 Stihl 36 (now a 361) ; 1 Stihl 660; 2 echo cs 346; 1 stihl 200t; 1 echo 341, and having given or thrown away several husky 336's; a husky 45 and a Husky 50, I would definitely recommend the Echo as a starter saw.
The 336 is a fairly new addition to the Husky line and you`ve already gone through a bunch of them? What do you do with them? I would put them on a quality and performance basis far above that of the Echo. The Husky 45 and 50 were decent little saws but of a much older generation then the Echo cs346, it`s my experience however that if you dragged all three through the mud and then banged them around in the bed of a pickup for a hundred miles of dirt road, then examinined all three saws that you would be convinced that they are all from the same generation 15 or 20 years ago. Echo is not "wasting" any money on R&D when it comes to chainsaws. I think that the uninitiated chainsaw shopper should be made aware of this so that they will do a thorough comparison of the brands to ensure that they know what they are getting for their money.

I would not rank the Stihl ms250 or Husky 340,345, and 350 as on par with the other saws referenced as consumer models within their respective brands, this is an important detail too easily overlooked.

I assume that when you refer to Stihl consumer saws you might be thinking something like the 017(ms170) or 021(ms210) and in Husky you might be thinking of the 136 or 141. Admittedly these saws are on the lower end of the quality and performance range of these two brands. If a  prospective buyer does not know of the differences between the top and the bottom of the "name brand" consumer lines, they may assume that you have experience with the better of those models and that it was bad when the reality may be that you`ve never even operated one never mind had a bad experience with one.

stonebroke

As a farmer I would agree  about the farmer saw except every once in while we tend to have some monster old growth tree that has been there forever die or fall over , of course then we haul out our own old monster saw or find a neighor with one big enough.

Rick Alger

I think  the distinction between consumer, farmer and pro saws has as almost as much to do with warrantees  as it does  with saw quality. 

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