landowner and logger timber prices

[Dobie]

If real estate agents was your comparison for doing good on land sales, then they must be subdivision sales and not timber management sales. They have no clue what timberland is worth and don't care to.  :D That is why up here 99% of landowners clear cut before selling because to the real estate folks they want to throw it in for cheap with the cleared land and buildings. If your only going to get $300/acre, you might as well get more off the timber value before you get that $300. :D

I've done well buying timberland thru realtors specifically because they have no idea what it's worth nor do they care.   Historically, I have to look at 3-4 dozen properties before finding something to get excited about but they're out there if you put in the work.


I've also only have done 1 subdivision on a 100 acre tract of land that I cut into 3 pieces.  Not worth the headache and not likely to mess around doing it again.  Dealing with government bureaucrats is not something that puts a smile on my face.

[SwampDonkey]

So I guess they work for the buyers, like the rest.   

[chep]

@Dobie
Thanks for coming back to the conversation. 
So when you buy and log these parcels are you getting them into a current use type program with a management plan? or just cutting them and putting them back on the market?

[Dobie]

I stay away from ant type of government program.  Especially tax incentive ones.  What sounds good upfront usually has many strings and you'll pay one way or another.

As for what I do, it all depends on the property.  I love finding tracts of land that have cool little cabins on them.  With those you can be more selective with how you cut leaving a good stock while making some decent money and reselling the property for near what you bought it for.  You get greedy with the timber and you'll pay for it later on.  If it's just standard timberland without ant type of cool feature like say Hemlock bottoms with a pretty creek running thru it I might wack it, get most of my money back and sell the residual land dirt cheap for hunting and make my profit there.  Where I see peple making mistakes is when they think people are stupid and they'll go and cut all the good trees and leave all the junk and then over price the land.  The property just sits on the market for years while I've bought 2-3 more pieces in the meantime because I'm fine with smaller profits in exchange for speed.

When I got out of the military I couldn't tell you the difference between a red oak and a beech tree but I always had a love for land and an admiration for trees so I sort of had a knack for this though I'm still an amateur when it comes to timber.

[SW Oh Logger]

This is what i figured, our tax dollars "at work" !! It seems to me that what you "do" isn't anything like logging or stand improvement , for future growth not only in the forest or for hardworking individuals trying make an honest living doing what they know and really care about. I should have known... No one said you had to have "personal relationship" with a logger, BUT I fear that some day soon you'll get bit by a shady operator, and the forester may not be able to help you.

[starmac]

What did I miss, how is  Dobie steering clear of government programs via tax incentives equate to our tax dollars at work.

[mike_belben]

Yeah that was kind of a stretch. 

[thecfarm]

Swampdonkey is right. I see land here cut,than the for sale sign goes on it. Probably most times it gets handed down because of a death and they cut the wood on it and then sale it. Use to matter what was on it for trees,that was way back in my Father's time. He always complained about that. Now you get just about the same amount of money with trees or no trees.

[mike_belben]

Its not really surprising when you consider that the millenial generation has been brainwashed into believing that good forestry is to never ever disturb anything in the forest.  Most probably dont ever plan to cut it.

[starmac]

Well I am not a forester by any means, and our logging here is totally different from what you guys do back east or down south, especially on private land.
I read a lot on here and call myself learning and trying to understand, but from what I have read (this coming from more of a farming and ranching type background) the very last thing I would probably  do with my land would be to plant trees if I wanted a return on the investment, unless the land was just of no use for farming or even running some kind of stock.

That said, one of my wifes cousins is in the pecan business, and does very well with it.

[SwampDonkey]

Depends, many folks have access to incentives for reforestation and first thinnings. Where I am there is no tax incentives to amount to much. Forest land taxation is very low here and not dependant on tree value at all, just acreage.  Where I live there are no strings attached to that kind of help and I have been doing it for 30 years, both as the guy doing the assessments and the guy behind the planting dibble or the brush saw (not at the same time). Taxes are paid on the income off harvests, and some of that can be reduced if the forest you own and work is a business (hobbies don't count) where you follow a management plan. The forest grows quick when it is young and thinned out at the right time or planted with the best trees on the site from nurseries that select the best seed for the region. The cutting cycle in these parts seems to run about 40 years, not that a few of us don't grow them for longer for bigger ones. But there is a lot of small sticks on trucks rolling down the road these days, has been for 25 years. The millenial attitudes change in crisis mode when they need to pay the bills, just like anyone else. ;D

[Matt601]

I been reading a lot on here. There so much difference logging in how things are done. I only have a short bobtail truck and most loads are 15 to 18 tons. I cut small tracts that our bigger loggers will not cut. I can make money at it because its just me and my son when he out of school. I work offshore 35 days on and 35 days off too so I have another job. But here what I pay to LO as of todays market. I pay the LO on Friday after my wife picks up the checks. I take him all the slips and settle up. I can get 6 loads a day by my self most of the time and on the weekends My son and I bunch the loading ground so I will not have so much to cut when the mills are open. 

all Pine 
saw logs I get 40 per ton LO get 10 per ton 
Pup 21 per ton LO gets 5 per ton 
tops 21 per ton LO gets 2 per ton so much more work to get tops out. 
chip and saw 29 per ton LO gets 8 per ton 

Like I said I cut small tracts I just have my Truck, Loader and tractor I can move in a few hours all at one time. I have cut for 2 diff LO in a day and still get 6 loads. But that's how I do it and with me its take it or leave it. Because there not very many people cutting a few loads here and there. A lot of time if its just a load or 2 I get the wood for free.  

Matt