Wood stove placement opinion

[Ginger Squirrel]

In process of installing a wood stove and almost ready to tie in the flue.  I have a bit of a dilema as my tiles are not perfect, was my first time laying tile, so if I center the stove with the walls, the tiles will be "off" and it will look odd.  If I center it with the tiles, like it is now, the stove is slightly in wrong angle and slightly more to one side than the other.  however to the naked eye it's not really that visible unless you start really measuring it out.

Curious what people would do in this case, leave it the way it is now, or try to center it better?  I also have it where I can connect the flue directly and only need to bend on one axis, so it will make that part easier and also more efficient. I will probably use a short vertical section and then 2 45 elbows. Or is a 90 better so I have a bit of a longer vertical?

I still need to do heat shield, some drywall in the area then outside chimney and I'll finally be ready to fire this up!  Been way too long that I've been working on this.




 



 



 
This shows how the stove is not actually at the correct angle, but if I were to fix it, then it would not line up right with tile pattern.  Ignore the green tape, I originally put that there to mark the closest to the front I can put the stove.

[beenthere]

Dilemma, but I would go with center with the tiles as that is more "visible" to the eye than with respect to the walls. Nice pick on the tile selection.

[doc henderson]

If it looks good and also meets the clearance requirements you are good.  If there is an inspection, they will not be interested in how it lines up with the tiles.  I am ready to see smoke from the chimney.    If I recall a 90 will burn out faster than two 45s if it makes more of a sweep.  if each of the 45s are turn-able, you may be able to use more and make them 30° each.

[21incher]

I'm surprised you can get away with  just tiles under a stove. The base r value of most stoves require 2 inches of concrete or several  layers of cement board under the tiles when placed on a wood floor or a r rated stove board. I would double check the manual because  the inspector will check that before issuing a certificate of compliance your insurance company will require  to cover the stove.

[Old Greenhorn]

Wait a minute, what? 2" on concrete under the tile? I have never heard of that. What is your citation for that?

[Ianab]

I've seen the ~2" concrete pads in older installations. But the current building regs here call for an insulating sheet, then fire resistant fibreboard, THEN tile on top of that. Ends up as ~2" thick hearth with all those layers. Only exception to that would be for a non-combustible floor, like a concrete slab.

[Don P]

I believe that one is if unlisted and shorter than 6"legs... IIRC. This looks like a modern listed stove, follow the manufacturer specs.

[beenthere]

The OP mentions this is all on a concrete basement floor.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=120676.msg1943366#msg1943366

[Ginger Squirrel]

I was a bit skeptical about the R value of floor but the chimney installer (who never ended up finishing the job... so not sure how reliable he is now) told me the cement board and tiles would be fine as the thinset itself also adds a bit to the R value.  I was originally going to cut out the drycore for the section where stove goes but he said it's not needed, just glue and screw the cement board right over.  Hopefully this works out... 

But yeah I think I will leave it where it is, visually it probably does make more sense to line up with the tiles.  All clearances are ok according to manual, and technically I don't even think I need a heat shield so I might get it inspected before I install so I can at least use it, but I will install some anyway to be extra safe, I just don't really have any metal working tools at the moment.

[Ianab]

I believe that one is if unlisted and shorter than 6"legs... IIRC. This looks like a modern listed stove, follow the manufacturer specs.

Yeah, regs are different if the stove has it's own insulation built into the base / taller legs and an engineers tick. In that case you just need a non-combustible floor, like tiles. In that case 2" of concrete would also suffice.  ;)

[Ianab]

The OP mentions this is all on a concrete basement floor

A chipboard floor over concrete is considered combustible, but as Don P mentioned, it's a modern stove that just needs a fire resistant floor around it, to stop hot ashes that might spill out and cause havoc. In that case the tiles are both needed and suitable.

[Ginger Squirrel]

Yeah it's a modern listed stove.  A reburner with the tubes on top, if that matters.

[21incher]

Mine is a modern Jotul and the r value for the base required 4 layers of the cement board to meet the requirements of the R value in the UL listing to pass code for the COC and insurance company coverage.  Never trust anyone for things like that and it's very easy to calculate using the stove testing spec up front. That is if the wood actually extends under the stove. If the wood was cut away and stove is sitting on cement, no problem because  I thought it was sitting on the wood from the picture.

[taylorsmissbeehaven]

We are in the process of installing the stove in our new home. Mud bed, concrete board, then tile set in thinset. The stove is a tiny Joutal 100 that I replaced the 6" legs with 8" legs. The only thing the inspector cared about was how close it was to the return air duct for the heat pump. I was very surprised by this. We were close but due to the small stove just got by. You just never know what they are gonna want when they come!!

[mike dee]

Pics may be deceiving...Check and confirm your clearances before you finish up...looks awfully close to your walls. 

Cheaper to fix now than after your insurer tells you that you have 30 days to fix and get it re-inspected before having your policy cancelled.

[beenthere]

Vermont Castings wood stove here, sits on wood rafters with plywood sheathing. Followed manual specs and the tile doesn't even get hotter than "warm". Been there 22 years with many fires.


 

[firefighter ontheside]

Were it me, I would center it in the corner.  The fact that it wouldn't line up with the tile wouldn't bother me at, but its not mine.  You should do what makes you happiest.  Hopefully you will be enjoying it for a long time.  My experience with stove installations in my area is that it needs to be installed per manufacturer specs.  That should include side clearances and floor under it specs.  It is possible that certain areas would have their own ordnance that is more protective than the manuf.

[Andries]

Good advice from everybody- especially the firefighters. 
I got tired of hunching over to put wood into the firebox. Much like topping up the air on a slow-leak tire, on my knees yet again.
A 16" raised woodstove platform, of fireproof material, will put the stove door at a comfortable height.
Feeding the stove while sitting on a chair and visiting with my brothers puts that in the comfort zone.
Plus, the height makes for better viewing of the flames through a glass door.

[Ginger Squirrel]

Pics may be deceiving...Check and confirm your clearances before you finish up...looks awfully close to your walls. 

Cheaper to fix now than after your insurer tells you that you have 30 days to fix and get it re-inspected before having your policy cancelled.

The manual calls for 5" from the corners and I'm at 14" (doesn't look like it from pics). The flue also has a min distance and that's also exceeded.   Also need 18" from front to edge of pad which I'm exceeding by quite a lot.

Once I have the chimney and flue done I will try to find a WETT inspector to inspect it as is before I do anything else. If I can get away without the heat shield I might do that temporarily. I still want to put one to feel safer though.   If the pad is not thick enough, then I will have to bite the bullet and just pour concrete over the tiles to make it thicker then retile.  Hopefully I don't have to do that though.

[taylorsmissbeehaven]

Nice stove with a beautiful view behind it Beenthere!!

[Don P]

The floor covering should be spelled out in the manual. In all cases I'm familiar with, the manufacturer's instructions trump code, they are specific to that item where codes and standards are generic. For instance your instructions got the 3' wall clearance down to some inches because of the construction of that particular stove. If the instructions are silent on some aspect, default to the code reference which in most places is NFPA 211. Most insurance carriers specify that as the installation standard (remember building code is mostly insurance driven). In NC for instance, building departments operate under the Department of Insurance, a pretty clear indication of who is driving the bus. In other words if an insurance agent fails to recognize a code installation, of anything, and specifies something other, I'd be asking for their citation.

BTW, OG had the correct answer when anyone calls out something that doesn't sound right, "citation please". I want chapter and verse to read it for myself.

The NFPA site finally let me log in a minute ago, I think they got a yule log too  :D From NFPA 211, Chapter 13. I believe this short excerpt is considered fair use for the purposes of this discussion.


 

 

 

[Ginger Squirrel]

This is what my stove says, although it has me second guessing if the cement board and tiles is in fact enough, because I don't think neither of those has an actual ULC listing, but it does say "or equivalent"... I'll see what the inspector says I guess.

This wood stove requires a U.L. listed (ULC if Canada) floor protector with a R factor of no less than
1.0, if the stove is to be installed on a combustible floor. If the floor the stove is to be installed on
is already non‐combustible (i.e. a concrete floor in a basement), no floor protection is needed
(although a decorative floor protector can still be used for aesthetic reasons).
• When using any floor protector, consider that this stove is not only heavy but will induce heating
and cooling cycles on the floor protector which can damage tile and loosen mortar and grout joints
located near the stove.
• The floor protector should be UL rated and listed, or equivalent (ULC if Canada) and must be
noncombustible. A hearth rug is NOT an approved substitute for a proper hearth pad.
• For the US: The floor protector must extend at least 16 in. from the front of the fuel opening, 8 in.
from the sides of the door opening and 8 in. from the rear of the unit.
•
For Canada: The floor protector must extend at least 450 mm from the front of the fuel opening,
200 mm from the sides of the door opening and 200 mm from the rear of the unit.

Also, what is best way to fasten the stove to the floor, I don't really like the idea that it's just loose. It's heavy but also still a bit wobbly since the floor is not 100% even and in the very rare chance of an earthquake (we don't get those here) I wouldn't want it to shift while it's on and get disconnected from the flue. I won't do anything until I get an inspection but thinking of just running a bead of PL premium on the back part of the stand to basically glue it down. There is no physical way to get a drill anywhere to make a hole into the bottom footing.

[doc henderson]

Neither of my stoves are fastened down, and both sit on concrete floors.  If you were pouring a pad, you could make a recess.  If you are set on fastening, a clip or L bracket could be used. 

[beenthere]

Don't worry about  your stove moving. It won't.  :new_year:

[Ginger Squirrel]

Yeah not too worried but just peace of mind, I also just don't like that it's wobbly. The floor has a bit of a bulge. I only realized it well after I was done tiling.

Another question, I'm just bought the stove pipe connectors and I'm not too sure how is best way to connect to the insulated chimney going out the wall.  A telescopic section fits directly and looks like it goes in snuggly, but then I basically have a big ring of insulation that would be exposed.  That doesn't seem right to me.  is there a special connector I'm suppose to use that makes a more finished connection?  I bought two different connectors that are just called "adapters" but it's really not clear what they're for and don't think it's the right ones.


Telescopic pipe connected directly.  Fits snuggly (pulled out a bit just to show it)


 


A look inside.  Also should I be concerned about the metal deformation at the very end of the insulated T connector? Circled in red.  I guess once a draft is going it will pull the smoke out, rather than be pushed, so that gap shouldn't be an issue right? 





Forum seems to shrink the images so here's a more zoomed in version:



 


At this point I wish I could have just hired all this out since it's going on 2 years now of me trying to do this myself while trying to juggle other projects and work, but nobody here does this.