The Forestry Forum

hey everyone,

I found a nice used barko 80 that i plan on installing on my international 1800, ive never done anything like this is it hard to do? i don't have a pto hook up on my transmission,  what other options would i have?

Are you saying that you do not have provisions on your tranny or just no pro on it at this time?

What engine and tranny?

I have a drilling rig that is run off of a pto, it is a heavy duty pto that the drive line runs through, instead of a gear in the tranny.
I used to run a winch truck that had the same pto setup, these are, were old rigs, not sure if they are still available or not.

Years ago I had a 69, 1800 that had a straight 5 speed, I installed a four speed brownie behind it, mainly to get the over drive and split the gears, but it worked out well to run the pto off of the brownie.

 Behind the cab is easier, i mounted my hood 7000 on the back and your quite a bit of pipe and hose. Most of them mount with longer bolts, threaded rod. Sure these no PTO cover on the back end of the trans ? Can always mount a hydro pump belt drive but that can be alot of screwing around.

Dirthawger- Your transmission should have either  6 or 8 bolt cover plates on the sides of it. You need to find tag on tranny and go to someone who installs pto's. They can determine which pto you need. Lots of choices,speed,rotation,placement of drive gear,helical or spur, type of engage/air, cable, rod, direct mount hyd pump or shaft. Best to seek knowledgeable advice here, this is the heart of your system.

If you have never done it you should go to someone and have the PTO installed . It is easy and cheap to have it done right . It can cost you a tranny If set up wrong . The PTO has to be shimmed for back lash . I have done many and wouldn't even attempt to tell you how .

Just because there is a pto access plate does not mean that there is a gear in there to run it, some trannys come without them.

There is also different pto setups, you will want a married unit, but you can get it in either hot shift or normal. the hotshift are nice, but more expensive, do not last as long and not really an advantage on a loader.

If it's a loadstar 1800 it should have a t34 or t35 transmission. They should have a 6 bolt cover on each side for a pto. If this has a 345 or 392 v8 I would get a 80 or 90 percent pto and run the engine rpms 15 or 1600 while running the loader. If it has a diesel you can run a faster pto and run the engine slower.

On the 1800 series it will be PTO ready . Yes a PTO set up to accept a bolt on pump are nice but expensive . If the loader comes with a pump use what you get . Drive shaft driven work well to just a shaft and u joints to maintain .

Yes, I would use a shaft drive if it comes with one already, or maybe even if the pto was already there and all I had to do was buy the pump.
I would never go shaft drive If I had to buy the whole set up though.

Do not use threaded rod. Go to a spring shop and buy u bolt  rod. It's grade 8 or better

i can't seem to figure out how to post picture's but its an automatic so i think that might be an issue. so didn't know what my options were.

It must be a newer truck than I'm picturing then. Probably have to have a front mounted pump like a snowplow then

My F 1800 loadstar has a 105% pto that runs the picker@ 12 to 1400 rpm. It's a 392; 5 and 4 spd. aux.  the pto is on the main transmission, a new process. It is a pto/pump combo, I believe 25 gpm. If this rig is for yard work, put the loader on the rear and you will love it.

That automatic has a PTO port . You just put it in gear to stop the turning engage the PTO and shift to N set the speed and go . My neighbor has a Mack dump with a auto loves it . Might be a good time to change oil in the automatic anyway .

Awesome news, but ill have my mechanic install it for me,  he's a diamond in the rough, only charges $50 an hour and charges by the job. Dude spent 6 hours trying to find an airbag for my truck. Still only charged me $50. I do use this for logging i just have a small logging operation and need a loader. Also acquired a barko 1080c that's being delivered tomorrow.  As far as seats go, my rig has one big seat and i can't find any seatbelts which is no bueno. Im guessing itd be expensive to rip that seat out and just install a driver seat with a seatbelt wouldn't it?

What year model is it, it may not need seatbelts.

its a 1988 but as far as needing or not needing them by law, doesn't really matter to me,  i need a seatbelt i feel naked without one.

Ebay?  Car-part.com?


I used to work four boulevard autoparts on page blvd in springfield mass.  They had a handful of those bench seat IH cabs when i moved and did mail order.  Ask for dennis.

I appreciate all the replies, I did have 2 different options right now. These self loading log trucks are perfect for my operation. Now i can either buy this loader for $3000 and then get it installed by my mechanic,  on big trucks and equipment he charges $85 an hour. May end up having to spend an extra $5-7k to buy a new transmission if mine doesn't have a pto port. I may not know what to look for but ive looked everywhere and can't find it. Or I can sell my log truck like it is and buy one for sell with the loader already one it for $10000. Its a 1979 Mack self loading log truck with a prentice 110. Seller stated that truck and loader work good,  all the tires look good,  but that price seems a little too good to be true. Is that a fair price for a good working unit? I can buy that one or a 1981 frieghtliner with serco 8000 loader for $27000, which is a little more than i was wanting to spend but i do understand you get what you pay for. What are yalls thoughts?

One more option would be to hang a small diesel under the side of the bed . run truck water back to it . Always warm and ready to go . I had a friend put a PTO on a Turbo 400 for a wrecker .Drove it but never looked under it .

We kinda dont have enough info to be good help. 

Need to know everything about your current truck.  What motor trans suspension gvw and tires does it have on it?  Is this a proven truck.. Have you run it hard up hill fully loaded and know its good, or a truck you just acquired and plan on running?  How much time and money have you put into it?  How many boardfeet are you planning to haul, how far, and what terrain?  Will this truck be run into the woods or is it for tree service front yard logging?  Do you have CDL? 

All trucks, whether specd right or wrong for the job, will need a boatload of maintenance over time.  Jumping out of a truck you have tested and kept maintained to get into one that you hope doesnt lose a liner O-ring, headgasket or push rod on its first week in service is plain old gambling. 100% luck.  I always lose this bet. Every piece of equipment ive ever owned was due for some sort of overhaul and a cheap 80s mack log truck is gonna be right in that boat no matter how you slice it, unless by the grace of god himself.  They were great trucks and its probably spec'd right, but even the best machines must wear by the hour.   When you talk about your mechanic rates it ups the risk even more.  Most startup loggers are also truck and equipment mechanics by necessity. Do you have the savings or other income to pay a mechanic if the truck goes down and log income halts?  Can you fix yourself if not?  Have you got a 14ft bay door in a shop?  If not, will you lay in the dirt or bust out the tarps?  Thats a loggers life.

These are serious questions and theyre all critical in order to give advice that contains even a shred of soundness for your unique predicament.  All considerations must be weighed and measured.

Everything Mike said plus some is true, not trying to discourage you, but just being realistic.
Just keeping an older truck dot compliant is costly and if paying a mechanic to keep it up is seldom a workable solution.

We need to know what your plan is, I was assuming, you wanted to mount the loader on an 1800 int, to use as a loader to load other trucks, are you now talking that the plan is to use it as a log truck. I know where a very nice late model single axle with a loader and a dump is sitting in the woods, and has been for over a year.  The aspiring firewood logger bought it, probably in the 50,000 range and quickly figured out that it didn't have enough payload left to haul enough wood to town to pay for the diesel. He now uses a dodge 1 ton with a dump and a dump trailer and has more payload.

I doubt you will have to change your tranny to mount a pto, but is so going from the allison to a standard is a sex change, not a straight tranny swap and if hiring a mechanic to do it, probably cheaper to buy a truck.

Without a CDL and DOT# payload will always be a huge issue.   

With a CDL and DOT# payload goes to the back of the line and getting shafted by the weigh station blitz lottery moves to the front.  The moment a truck leaves the dealership, it is in violation of something.  The laws virtually ensure it.   Evade capture.

Believeme, I understand the evade capture, BUT the way violations go against your license safety rating anymore, it just doesn't pay.
It used to be that you just had to make sure you were making enough to pay big brother when caught, but it does not work that way anymore.

A guy has to make enough to keep his equipment dot legal and be adamant about it. Several years ago I was bobtailing not 50 miles from where he lives and about Midnight on christmas eve, a dot pulled me over on the interstate. I thought he was just a trooper and knew I was not speeding, but he told me he was just doing inspections. Hungry I guess.

A few months ago, I got a ticket for not having mudflaps on my personal old work pickup, it is an 89 model and never had any nor any place to mount them, without building something, again HUNGRY.

I will say this, Louisiana has, or at least had the best  minor overload tickets in the country, 1 penny a pound, pay cash right there and it does not go on your record, plus they can't give you another ticket for that load that day. I could get a 15 dollar ticket when I entered the state and go on across with no worrys.  No experience, but I understood that heavy overloads were treated differently and got expensive.

But if he crosses the state line, and it is right close, then Texas has roving dot's and they can show up anywhere at any time, mostly daytime. It used to be that Texas had some exemptions for log trucks, length for one, not sure what all they were.

No I'm using this truck as my log truck.  Im a coal miner and doing this in my spare time. Im making decent money and i planned on buying an 18 wheeler log truck and a big loader all that jazz. But i hooked up with a forester that's letting me haul under his contracts for good money. I asked him what equipment he recommended i get. Because all i had was a tractor. But he told me im right where i need to be with these small jobs because they give me the wood for free. But i was able to acquire a barko 1080c from an amish guy for dirt cheap in great condition and i bought a wallenstein grapple for the back of my tractor and a grapple for the front.  But loading my log truck is very inefficient and dangerous.  But i don't want another big piece of equipment,  i want to build a self loading log truck but adding a loader might make it hard to get a good 10-15 tons on it. Its dual axle and i added up my numbers on my tires and i came up with 36k that i can haul. However, my very first load i got stopped by Texas DOT and i was scared to death. But i must have gotten the only dot cop that understands a mans gotta eat. But he told me as long as this wood is from my land i can haul to mills all day long without a DOT# or high dollar insurance and farm tags. But he weighed me and said i was good on my weight but my truck is only rated for 30k. And i have my CDL  so that's not an issue. My issue now is my truck has proven to be reliable, minor repairs had to be made. I got $1000 invested in it so far.  My truck empty weighs 10k. I may suck at searching but i can't find the weight of a barko 80 but i assume they're about 6000lbs. So that puts my truck at 16000 empty which if that DOT cop is correct on what my truck can haul before I'm overweight,  only leaves me with 14000 leftover which is 7 tons which is no bueno. But i need a self loading log truck and not a 18 wheeler so i can get in tighter areas. 

where might this truck in the woods be at? you can read my post but after i put the loader on i think ill only be able to haul 7 tons before I'm overweight which i don't think will work even for a small time wannabe logger.

Quote from: dirthawger on February 14, 2018, 11:43:08 PM
where might this truck in the woods be at? you can read my post but after i put the loader on i think ill only be able to haul 7 tons before I'm overweight which i don't think will work even for a small time wannabe logger.

The truck sits out in the woods at his log sale, it is not abandoned, he is actively working there, just has not moved the truck in over a year. He does drag short logs up beside it at times and use the grapple to load his 1 ton and trailer.

The reason I mentioned it was so you don't invest in something that winds up not being a workable solution.

I am having a hard time picturing wht you have, most 1800 binders that I have been around are single axles, and the most they would be able to gross in exas would be 32,000, or maybe 32,500 at the most, unless it happened to have a heavy steer axle, which an 1800 wouldn't have.

If it is tandem axle it would be able to gross 46,000 or 46,500 at the most.

Your truck is light weighing 10,000, which seems light for a tandem axle, just cab and chassis, but may be a little heavy for a single axle depending on the motor and if you have any kind of bed installed.

At any rate if it is single axle and weighs in at 10,000, you should be able to haul around 22,000 pound pay load legally, IF the weight is distributed exactly right.

If tandem rears and tares at 10,000, you should be good for 36,000 payload, legally.

Now all this depends on how it is registered too, but that is maximum allowed in Texas, UNLESS they have an overweight permit available for logs, like they do agriculture, if so yo have to list every county you will run in and get the yearly permit that cuts you a little slack on gross weight.

 
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  Heres my truck. Ok i thought that DOT cop meant i can only haul a total weight of 30k. That makes more sense.  But i think i should be able to haul more that though,  i dunno

That rig if built in that configuration originally (axle wise) in Texas is good for 34,000 on the rears and either 12,000 or 12,500 on the steer axle, I do not remember what maximum is on steer, but it is one of the two. That does depend on the steer tires too, they have to be rated at 6000 a each or better, and every once in a while a dot will check the tire rating.

That truck has a pretty light tare, and should make you pretty good truck for what you are doing, I am not fond of the auto, but there are worse things.

Another thing to think of on your loader purchase, some are a lot stoughter than others, most any will be alright for that truck, but one logger friend of mine has and uses self loader with a hop along trailer and a serco loader, it works fine for his truck because it drags the trailer up on it to load it, but he really needs to hire other log trucks to keep up and his loader will not pick up my trailer to unload it at his landing, so it is severely handicapping his operation. So in the future if you need to hire any, or even buy your own long log truck, the loader will need to be able to lift a trailer.
I changed mine for a while this winter to haul short logs and configured it like yours, but also pulled a trailer. the log buyer was 300 miles away and could not load my trailer, so the logger I haul for bought another loader and kept it there, so I could load my own trailer after they got it emptied, it worked out well because I didn't have to wait on them to unload me if they were busy, I could just
unload myself. I have since changed it back to a long log rig, but built it quick change in case I need to do short logs again.

Check into the overload permits in Texas, I used to get them for hay and even gravel when I had dump trucks, they were a pain in a way because you had to list and pay for every county you intended to run in, but it was cheap and iirc I could haul as much as 12% over gross, which would be substantial if hauling much.

I can say this, it is hard to judge the weight of logs on a truck, I have scales on mine, which saves my butt pretty regular.

This would be why no one here runs self loaders. The crane is basically counted as part of the payload, and it's a significant extra weight that cuts into your load.

All the logging crews run either an excavator with a grapple, or a large wheel loader. So they can load a truck on the landing, and unload the trailer that the truck has piggy backed on the empty return trip.

With a full size truck and trailer, the % of the load is less, so it might be economic then. But again every landing here has the ability to load without it.

Possible to mount a crane on a trailer? Tow it to the landing, extend it's outriggers and load. Job finished, tow it to the next site?

Ianab, it is hard to haul enough with a self loader here to make it pay. It works fairly well for small time loggers that do not have the equipment to otherwise load a truck. no company that has a shovel will hire a selfloader to haul for them, period. That is not to say they do not have their place for the smaller guys.

The main logger I haul for had a large trailer mounted loader when he first geared up, I hauled exactly 2 loads, before he shut that operation down until he bought a truck and mounted , it was just shy of worthless in the woods. It is a large self propelled unit, you can't haul logs with it.

10,000 lbs empty? my f550 weights 13000. are those tires on your truck 245-19.5?? they look short. single axle with a tag?? looks it. single frame?? lets see a picture of the mack and freightliner

around here it would be an odd thing to see a tri axle log truck with out a loader on it. i can only think of one. but the days of running backyard built cobbled up stuff are long over. most are 270 to 290 inch wheel base 20fa 46 ra 20 tag and all the hp. you can afford. a lot of the trailers have a center mount loader

Im seeing an 85ish international S1654 former 24ft uhaul truck with juice brakes, allison auto and probably a 9.0 NA diesel or 7.3 idi or IH gasser.. Dt466B or C is possible but unlikely. Yes?  Mine has 22.5s but i think those are 19.5.  The front axle is only like 10k or something.  Camerota truck parts service dept should be able to give you a build sheet off the vin. 

Im gonna assume the rear is an oem 18k or so eaton or rockwell and the rear rear is just a tag, because i dont ever recall any tandem juice brake setup ever.  Im not saying they didnt make any S series air brake but i dont think those front rims would cover air drums.  Ive sheared a lot of these. 

Dirthawger, if you are inclined to stay with that truck.. Which where i live is a common 4 post hillbilly log hauler, nothing wrong with it..  I suggest you find an older interstate, eager beaver, econoline, hudson etc backhoe trailer.  8 tire dual tandem will turn a lot easier and eat less tires than a tri axle. A 4 tire has no business here.  Weld in some flush bunk pockets and mount your loader to the neck with an electric and pull start pony motor in a locked box.   Removable ramps would be good.  9ton or higher rating.  You need an A license for this but that will give you maximum legal weight based on equipment tags.   

This is the most versatile arrangement i can think of and that is key to the always changing oddbal jobs a weekender logger gets. 

You can haul equipment or logs or leave it home. 

You can leave it at the landing as a baby knuckleboom.  The pony motor means you can use with any pintle truck, no wetline needed.  Its a standalone machine.  You can skid to the tongue, swing tie logs to your left, pulp to your right and grade or stave logs onto its back.  When a pile needs to go load the truck and head off. 

If you were to do this and for sure were keeping the truck, i would shorten it.  The easiest is to pull one driveshaft extension and slide everything up then redrill.  If you cant do it that way then you gotta pay alteast for a driveshaft balance or itll wreck your pinion seal from vibration.  This will give you a truck that jockeys the trailer way better, that scoots into tight spots and gas station way better.  Itll weigh a bit less from the frame cutoff, and itll put more weight on the steers.  Which i bet at that length you are fine on. 

My 1654 is setup as a tractor for a cross country move.. with the same WB as a CCLB f350 and it turns a tighter circle than one.  I wouldnt change it.  Its my car and my truck.  Gets a GN back in the wood no problem other than traction. A pintle is even easier because the pivot point is about centered and itll drive like a skidder, all in one track with no trailing.

Seeing the picture reminds me of the old days. When some were running gmc gas wheelers. The frame would stand up if you didn't put a loader on. Loaders and light frames don't always work out well. The first truck I bought to haul wood with in 79 was a lt Ford 534 gas 5 and 4. Didn't take long  to see gas was not the answer. I put a 671 in it. Big improvement

Find your Line set ticket !! It's a IH talk to a dealer you may be able to change front springs . A 12000 steer and a 15000 are the same beam . Nothing stopping you from adding a lift axel . The only drawback I can see to that truck is the low pro . you will be stuck more than with 24.5 .

That marks the very first time i have seen a 671 mentioned as an improvement.   :D

x2 what Mike said - I would be VERY surprised if that's not an old Uhaul truck without the box.

If it was any of the uhaul powerplants and allison auto, ill be real surprised if it can handle the total weight of loaded truck, loaded trailer and loader on anything but flat ground at a snails pace.  They did have pretty good brakes but blow a line and youll need 5 miles to bring it to a halt with that auto.  I use an exhaust brake more than the service pedal. 

My truck is on about 37" rubber with 4.78 rear, an RTOO9513 and a pretty turned up fresh 466c.. Id guesstimate 250-275hp and 800 to 1000ft lbs.  I could maybe handle 50k gross in the flats.  I went off the mountain at 42k once and was pretty certain if i had to take the load back up it would mean 10mph or overheated or like my 3rd blown headgasket.  This is with a 13speed.   An auto at that weight on long climbs would be cooking the fluid without a wind turbine for a fan.   Otoh what ive seen of texas is pretty flat .. Just something to consider. 


Macks and ford Louisvilles were probably the most common vocational spec'd trucks.  Still pretty easy to get everything for an L9000.  I think a louisville is cheaper to maintain than the mack.  Theres no resto/collector/nostalgia/export market for the fords.  Mack R model is still the work truck of guatemala/honduras etc so theyre all exported in pieces.  International MDTs as well.  Crushed or sent south.  All the way up to maine theyd find them.

International was also very common and made some very tough vocational trucks, out west atleast. I prefer them over mack, and way over ford. Many had 52,000 rears with rubber pad suspention, rough riding but as tough as they come. The one I had had an L 10 cummins and an 8LL, with 529 gears, grossing 50,000 pounds it held it's own anywhere.

After looking closer to the picks, I to feel that is a uhaul or similarly speced truck, and if that is a tag, it will stay stuck much of the time.
It should have a tag on the drivers door frame that lists what weight it is good for. If we change the stock 12,000 pound steer axles to 16 or 20,000 pound ones, the dot  still only allows us the normal 13,000 unless, we have the tag changed, which can only be done by a dealer, and they will not change it unless we buy the axle and springs from them, plus pay them to install it. We got into that little tidbit last year.

Having bolt Ford or 9000 and ih s series . Bolth good trucks. The ih cab is to short from the dash to the back. And that dashcluster to vertical.  I could never get the seat back far enought the has more room .dash is better . And you can buy gauges anywhere if you need to replace one. My for the better truck Volvo. The cab is huge wide and long. Plenty of room. Mine is pretty well filled up with plow controls and ground speed computer for the sander. D 12 Volvo motor 8ll 20 and 46 on Chalmers.  I like it real well

The ih may only be a 6 wheel truck. It is heavy spec 18 and 30 with a Eaton no spin l 10 cummins 8ll

Uhaul IHs did not have gvw tags in the door in my experience.  NYdot looked all over mine.

Possible, but I thought all rigss had them, even pickups leave the factory with them, but then again Uhaul does have some differences in their equipment and that built for any other company. I know their trailers used to have there own bearings and seals, available from uhaul only. The pump was set up different on the 1 ton box trucks when they came with the 6.9 diesel too.

Well y'all would be correct, my truck is an old uhaul truck.  I decided not to go get it cause i just felt uneasy about.  Wasn't real sure if it was gonna be the best fit for me and i felt like i was forcing myself to get it.  But i went home found something even better in my opinion. Its an old prentice g already attached to the trailer, small enough that i could pull it with my 1 ton if i had to but plenty strong enough for what i deal with.  I don't want to buy another truck right now.  This truck is proven to be reliable. Ill come back to the idea of getting better equipment but i got everything i need to grow so after i pay off my loan then ill think about bigger equipment.

 can't seem to edit my last post but when i said i decided not to get it i was talking about the barko loader.

I have always been eager to dive into more iron.. All my life really.  Last year the "bigtime" logger guy who most people look at and say has to be rich, look at all them skidders and harvesters and trucks.. Told me to stay right where i am.  As tiny as possible. 


What motor is in your truck? 

Do you have a GVW tag in the door jam?   Mine has tag but GVW is not on it.  Was a new york state highway dump.  The yellow crew cab ones.

Mike, I am like you and ike iron, but there is some truth to less is more, at least in some situations.

One logger here had a chainsaw and an excavator  with a thumb, that was it, well a pickup and a backup saw.

When he started he didn't have a truck, nor a trucker. He came to me and I told him I was busy and had to take care of the loggers I was hooked up with, but might could haul a load for him once in a while.

It turned out my main logger had some equipment problems, so I hauled some 20 loads straight for him. With his minimal equipment he, by his lonesome could cut and shovel log to the landing and load my truck one load a day consistently. It did not last long before he got sideways with the mill, but the first 20 days netted him between 900 and 1000 a day after he paid the trucking.

Not too shabby for one OLD guy with  a chainsaw and a backhoe.

Well, i hope someone is sayin that about me one day.  Need my son to start school first.

Mike, I was just telling what a guy could do with minimal iron. He didn't make it for a variety, one of which is he did not have the iron he had to have to survive. One thing that hurt him, is he was logging on the end of the 33 mile log trail that is maintained by the loggers, he didn't have no way to contribute to help maintain it, nor did he ever offer to help with the bill when they had to hire it done, and it has to be plowed on a regular basis.
That hurt as far as getting along with some who started out helping him.

Next was the further he cut from the landing, the harder it was to put a 30 ton load on it, with 4 hours of daylight, and he would never invest in lights for his excavator.
A cheap skidder would have been worth it's weight in gold and took care of both of them problems.
Next, he had pretty much no mechanical ability, something that is required when you are 3 hours out in the sticks, not a lot of ways to get around it .
Then for some reasons, he would never put more than one load on the landing, if I could not haul for 2 weeks, he would still just have one load ready to go, not sure what his thinking there was.

At any rate he wound up losing everything, including pickups, his contract to cut for the mill, I heard even his house. His excavator is still sitting in the woods, the only time it has been cranked this winter is when we had to move it out of the way, I am sure a finance company somewhere is looking for it.
He proved to all of us that he could do more than we ever thought, but for several reasons he couldn't hold out at that pace.

yea its back to the drawing board, there's allot wrong with that loader so no buy. Im with y'all on my truck being able to safely handle all that weight.  A nice ford 8000 already setup with the loader on it is for sale 5 hours away for $22k. So i reckon ill try and sale that sawmill i haven't even finished putting together and buy a truck thats a little more suited to what i need.

Wow, surely there is better options.
What all is wrong with the loader?

he they can't keep it running because it has a fuel pump leak and frieght 3200. so not sure what to do

Is that the one that is mounted on a trailer.
A fuel leak, shouldn't be a big expense, what engine?
Is the trailer not road worthy, or even possible to haul on your gooseneck, is there no way to pick it up your self?

Im gonna pass on the best advice i have always struggled to follow.  If you cant buy it right, dont buy it.  Leave the money in your account and wait longer for the next deal. 

If you cant hook to a trailer and test run it yourself, hedge your bets.  Some guys can jump on a plane and buy a great truck that they drive 2000 miles home.  I know a bunch.  Other guys like me -mechanic since birth-  can pour over a rig for 2 hours, and blow a liner oring the next morning at home upon startup.  Theres no guarantees, its just luck. 

Well shoot Mike, isn't a little antifreeze in the oil normal, I actually had a seller tell me it was once. As far as I know he is still trying to sell that truck.

It helps if you know trucks, and it really helps if you know the particular truck, you are interested in, but buying any of them is a gamble. I have known guys that bought a new one only to have it flat break them with too much down time, before they got the bugs worked out.

Well im gonna go with my gut. If i really want to make an honest go of this then i need a decent piece of equipment made for logging. Ive only been able to get 8 tons on that truck of mine and i don't see it being able to handle much more.  So im gonna get that l9000 with the loader on it.

Here are a couple of things about owning your own truck.

I am not trying to discourage you, I have several trucks and have eeked out a living with trucks for a number of years.
# 1 thing to keep in mind, all of mine are paid for and have been for years, that said, there is no such a thing as a paid for truck.
#2 insurance, this goes on if you are working or not, it never slows down, and if you have the authority to cross state lines, gets pretty expensive, if you know you are not going to work, you can satisfy authority requirements by switching over to non trucking liability which depending on state should only run a couple of hundred bucks a month, you just can not haul a load with it
Maintenance, do it daily and fix every little thing as it needs it, it is easy to let them go till there is several things wrong, and it is a major expense to put it back in shape.
Every little warning ticket will now go against not only your authority safety record, but your dl safety record, it doesn't take many till you yourself is no longer employable by another company, and enough of them and your authority will be yanked. The authority record goes on a percentage basis. So keep the truck dot legal, keeping it clean and looking good goes a long way, especially running an older truck.

When I bought my first truck, an old trucker told me just don't look back. What he meant was some weeks, even months, your net income will be less than the guy taking orders at McDonalds, don't think about that and keep plugging, some weeks you will think you are going to get rich, the next you may be thinking bankruptcy.

All that said, you can make a living with a truck, you just have to watch your pennies, there will be some tough lessons.

Starmac, you're saying that insurance to have a load on your truck is valid only in one state, and to get to other states, you need extra insurance?

That's mad!

If you are crossing a state line in a cdl truck you are in a way higher insurance bracket than instate.  When i was calling around recently progressive commercial was the only company that would insure a new MC# and their menu offered two flavors, intrastate and interstate. I could haul rock and dirt and a backhoe trailer in a dumptruck instate for like $600 a year.  In a tractor combination to haul logs into alabama put me interstate and all they would do is 48 state unlimited mile policy.  One truck allowed.  An extra rig way upped the price.  My quote with 1mil/100 cargo and no comp on the rig was gonna be $8600/yr.  Add in the other permits to haul east coast and it would be like $12k in fees.  I said forget it. ELD, safety audits, new points format.  Im not doin this.   

Wait til you see the food prices that are coming along from the assault on owner ops. Theyre making their own truck shortage. Clear you pine lots and get some fruit trees started.

Satamax, the trucking world and laws gets some what complicated, and it is a real game changer if you run outside your home state.

There is basically 2 types of authorities, inter and intrastate, and the insurance requirements are different.  The nontrucking liability I was talking about, is just to keep your authority and insurance active, you can't haul a load anywhere at all with it, but if you ever drop your insurance, and have to get a new policy, then things get expensive, and complicated.

Running across state lines gets complicated, I had authority and was licensed for 48 states and the western Canada provinces for years, and it was much simpler and easier to pay an agent a monthly fee to keep up with all the licensing requirements and quarterly fuel taxes than it was to try and do it inhouse. Alaska and Yukon Territory are seperate, and not included with your base licensing.
Your insurance has to be on file in every state that you are prorated for, to keep your authority active.
Then if crossing state lines you also get into the IFTA requirements.
I can't explain it all, like I said it works out best to pay an agent that does nothing but keep up with all the licensing laws if you intend to run multiple states.

That sounds pretty complicated and seems to be a real PITA 

CDL
Medical card
Drug program
Safety program 
Dot inspection on all equipment
Dot#
MC#
IFTA
IRP
KYU#
NY#
Heavy use tax
Process agent in every state you run
Min 1mil/100k cargo insurance 

Yeah, interstate is complicated

(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/shocked.gif)(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/shocked.gif) Wow!! Here you don't even need insurance. Well, of course it's better to have but it's not legally required 

Mike, if I remember right, they did away with the kyu deal, the last time I licensed for down south, NY still had the TUT sticker.

Guys, that's completely mad! In my view. Over here, you get insured for the whole of Europe, for cars. And light trucks. 3.5 and 7.5 tons. 

Then on bigger trucks, you either get national, or international. I know, insurance for going to Russia costs more, because of the high theft rate. 

But still all sounds simpler than what you describe. 

I have no clue how it works in Europe, but here every state that you run in, you have to either buy a tag (expensive) or buy a prorated tag in your state and keep up with every mile driven in the different states.

That way every state gets there percentage of the tag cost and road taxes. This excludes Alaska and Hawaii, and some states handle it different, like Oregon, where you pay the road tax in advance.

I did nothing different, why did my post come out in bold?

Well, usually, France and Italy, is the land of paperwork. But keeping record of every mile driven in another state, that's madness.  We don't have road tax anymore in France. Well, there is Pollution taxes now, when you buy a vehicle.  In italy, there's the bollo, which is a road tax. And quite dear. But that's on cars, i don't know about trucks. But i don't have to pay it, if i go there. The only one which does that, is Switzerland. Where, to take the motorways, you have to buy a windscreen sticker Either per passage, valid one day. Ten times, if you go there a bit more often. And a yearly one. But still, that's not insurance. 

You do not have to buy insurance in every state, your insurance along with your authority has to be registered in every state and province of Canada too. Take British Columbia, if you are running IR tags and have British Columbia listed, you have to buy your way across, and even though you have insurance, they charge you 80 bucks for it, that was in 99, not sure what it costs these days.

Form boc-3 is the designated process agent in every state.  Say youre a new jersey company who causes a wreck in PA.  PA needs someone on file to serve court papers to.

IFTA is the fuels tax sharing so everyone gets a bite.

Irp is the registration fee sharing so everyone gets a bite.

If you ask me its all just a precursor to eventually nationalize trucking industry.  Youd have to be blind to miss how the regs are really only designed to extinct owner ops and create driver shortages.

Bad as the regs seem, they are not hard to work with, IF you are into running full time, it is a pain to try and truck on the side.

The regs are now 100% better than they used to be with the states calling all the shots and the old bingo stamp system.

I will have to take your word for it.  What i know is only from investigating the requirements to get my MC# so i could haul for hire northbound to offset my trips south.  I just couldnt do it.  Looked like more red tape than driving and more money in it for everyone else than me. 

No it would not work for your purposes, but is simpler and cheaper by far than it used to be for full timers. In fact till deregulation, getting your own MC was not even an option at all.

At that price you may wanna consider a power unit to run the loader , if there is room on the truck to mount it .

Yea I'm at a loss,  I don't think buying that truck is a very good idea.  But I'm worried about installing a loader on my current truck.  It sounds as if the truck I currently have isn't designed for hauling what I need it to.  So I ain't got a clue what to do.  Install that barko loader on my truck, buy a 28k freightliner,  buy a busted up log loader for 4k or take a chance and buy a 10k 1979 Mack.

There is a small log hog loader attached to truck but they say #1 piston is out so not sure how much that'd cost.

And I'm pretty sure the gvw tag is 22000 on my international

Quote from: dirthawger on February 23, 2018, 07:10:42 PM
There is a small log hog loader attached to truck but they say #1 piston is out so not sure how much that'd cost.

Which truck is that and what engine?

Go take a look at the mack and see what it needs. 

Found a nice looking 87 mack log loader 3 hours away i do believe im gonna go for it

Need a little advice here,  I drove 400 miles to go test and buy that Mack log truck.  Only  problem I could find is the clutch pedal would sometimes stick.  Didn't seem to float gears too well but would shift well when I'd double clutch it.  Well I was going to buy it and I brought cash but they turned me away because they said they can't take cash.  I've started to have 2nd thoughts now.  Why is this truck being sold by a salvage yard and why is it 15k. http://www.trucksalvagehouston.com/inventory/?/listings/trucks/for-sale/list?ETID=1&pcid=2001419513&dlr=1&bcatid=27&snai=0&sps=0&sfc=0&lo=4 that's it if anyone cares to see.

Buy it.  That truck is spec'd right, it could be your forever truck.  everything is serviceable and for its age, looks very clean.  Air cab and a 8LL to boot.  Its a great truck that any old timer or farm boy can just keep overhauling with basic old simple tools, once you get it dependable itll stay that way for a good while and never need to be hooklifted to cat dealer for a diagnostic wallet probe.

   If it doesnt float gears it either means the sliding clutches are brand new or shot. Look how much grease is coating everything.  If not much, or you see a reman tag the trans is fresh.  The sliding clutches are about $40 each and completely available.   Fuller overhaul is daunting the first time because of size but its not complicated, just need the manual.  If it didnt jump out of gear, run it until it does.  Then hold it into gear for a while.  Then reman.

A clutch is a wear item.  You can roll windows down and put a 3 pieces of timber posts in a pyramid shape through the doors to winch trans down if you dont have a jack.  Just dont get under it, about 750lbs.   Has to slide back about 8 inches.  Youll need an alignment tool to setup a dual disc clutch, it can be a pain.  

Tell them the clutch sticks and the aliding clutches are worn, that you want $2500 off to cover a trans overhaul.  The clutch is about 700 or so.  Do pilot bearing ($20) and surface flywheel too ($120ish) if ring gear is good and no cracks.  They do have a service limit btw so measure.  



They probably want a bank wire right?  Thats not too uncommon for a south america exporter.  Lots of scammers print money and target them.

Make sure the loader slew stuff is in good shape.  Thats probably the worst service item on a log boom. 

 That's a nice truck, even the seats are new 8) .

Slight high jack here, but Mike if you install a clutch once without the pilot shaft alignment tool, you will throw it away, and never use it again on a dual disc.

When you say it doesn't float gears to well, I am assuming you are talking about you floating the gears without the clutch. I doubt it is actually the trucks fault, you will just have to get use to the rpm curve between the mack motor and that 8LL, no big deal, but mack, cummins, cats, they all shift different.

The clutch sticking concerns me more, are you saying it stays down, when you push it down, or is it not disengaging, or what, describe sticking.

Does your laws there let you gain weight with a lift axle or is it like many states, where it actually takes away from the gross? I know in Texas you lose payload with a lift axle on a trailer, not sure about on a straight truck, not a big deal, they can just be removed, if needed.

That thing looks clean and straight!  Don't get many that age up here that don't have rust taking over.

Quote from: starmac on February 27, 2018, 03:02:17 PM
Slight high jack here, but Mike if you install a clutch once without the pilot shaft alignment tool, you will throw it away, and never use it again on a dual disc.

Do you hang them on the input then bolt diaphram thru the inspection hole?  
Dirthawger- i resoponded to your PM but ita in my outbox not my sent folder.  I dont know what that means.  Did u get it?

Yes Mike, zero fight stabbing the tranny.  I have changed probably well over a hundred clutches, and once I tried it this way, I have never gone back, or know anybody else that has.

That mack will probably be a little harder for a clutch job, as I think it will have the motor mounts on the transmission front housing, so you have to block up the engine itself..
Macks ar not my favorite trucks by far, but that one would be a good truck for his use, if it is in decent shape mechanically.

Good to know, thanks.

Mike, I am sure you know this, but just in case, do not put bolts in it and tighten them down, just snug them up and roll it to start some more. I generally roll it around about 3 times before the final torquing of the bolts.

Thanks for all yalls advice.  I got pretty mad about driving down there and coming back empty handed but my heart kept tugging at me that this was the right move.  Just don't know much about trucks and glad yall let me know that model Mack is a good one.  I went on ahead and wired them the money,  going to get it Saturday.  As far the clutch does,  if I pressed it in all the way to the floor it'd stick.  But when I was driving it,  it would shift great.  Little hard for me to find a grear if I missed one but I'm sure everything was operator error,  except the engine brake wouldn't by work but that could be a minor fix.  it's been 4 years since I drove a big rig. Not real excited about my maiden voyage being through Houston but slow and easy is my plan.

My next question is besides hauling wood for myself,  what kind of options do I have to use this rig to earn a living for myself so I can quit my day job and log full time.  I do believe I'll be the only one in the area with a truck like this.

I have seen guys rig up a tub of sorts to load between the bunks and haul junk iron with them, probably not a real lucrative type of deal.

A few years ago they were putting in 400 miles of pipeline in Florida, and I accidently fell into a gig hauling crane mats to it, they had to mat the whole 400 miles, so every sawmill within 2 or 300 miles were building them and shipping them in as fast as possible. They had probably ten grapple trucks working by the hour out of the landing I was unloading at hauling and placing the mats, these all had the loaders on the back and were pulling pups too though.

With some kind of bed, a guy can do pretty good at times doing storm clean up with them.

I was thinking you would have an easy ride out of Houston on the interstate, but I suspect you will run 59 back towards home. It has been years since I have run it, but it had enough small towns on it, you will be getting used to shifting by the time you get home. that mack engine has a torque curve that is pretty forgiving though.

If you do decide to run 45 north, The last time I was down there they had built a permanent type scalehouse north of houston, have your ducks in a row.

I have a feeling the place you are buyingthe truck is right off of I 10, am I right?

Just dont forget all the way to floor is clutch brake and you cant use it unless parked.  Its for getting the shafts to slow down for going from neutral to takeoff gear at a stop.  

Like you said, take it slow.  When in gear, run it up to shift speed with deliberation, no whimsical ehhh maybe i should shift now moves. Go from throttle on to abruptly off the throttle, and just then slide quick to neutral, then dwell there.  You need to give the crank end of the driveline time to come down to the road speed that the truck should be holding in stored inertia.  Start easing stick toward next hole and softpaw it in when resistance is least.  Make sure stick moves the full travel or the sliding clutches are only half engaged.  After a few dozen shifts you should have a feel for the dwell time it takes on flat ground. Obviously shifting on slopes or in turns will alter dwell time.  The closer the gear ratio the faster youll need to move the stick for floating, but still its coordination with the throttle and hand, more than just speed.  The gear holds by driveline friction and relases by slack. 

If you miss a gear, relax.. No biggie, youre gonna find it so dont stress.  Slide shifter toward whichever hole you think is right and gently feel the vibes from the sliding clutch teeth splines coming up the shifter.  Never ever ever try to mesh them by force.  The throttle is your meshing tool.  Wherever the vibration speed is fast you arent close.  When you have engine too fast or too slow for the ground speed, its gonna be a fast vibe (or grind if you yank so dont.)  The slow vibe is when youre almost matching speeds.   Flitter some throttle in an on/off fashion just a hair with gentle pressure on the handle and itll thump in.   If you cant get it on that hole, youve probably lost enough ground speed to drop down to the next.  Just dont switch from high to low range.. If youre going slow enough to find it on low side, pull over and start at takeoff gear.  

A slow truck in a high stress city makes 4 wheelers mean and road ragey.  And missing gears will put you in a funk too.  If some hothead ends up in your face, Dont take the bait, be nice and apologize and get home safe. people are getting shot over that stupid stuff these days.  

Quote from: dirthawger on February 28, 2018, 02:12:11 AM
My next question is besides hauling wood for myself,  what kind of options do I have to use this rig to earn a living for myself so I can quit my day job and log full time.  I do believe I'll be the only one in the area with a truck like this.

Pass out business cards to all the housing contractors, tree guys, excavators and land clearers you see at the pumps.  Say youre looking for contract hauling of whatever will go on a log truck.  Could be logs, yard trees, utility poles, drainage tubing, structural iron, guard rails.  
Is there any market at all for firewood there?  Or any chip or charcoal plants you could haul to?  Theres gotta be some young buck with a saw and a skid steer that does not have an efficient way to haul off trees yet.  Or a guy with a woodmizer and no source of logs.  Some guys getting started at building log cabins, timber frames or pole buildings etc etc.   Put your card on all the corkboards at all the mills youd be willing to drive to.. "Self loader log truck available, one job or many."  Talk to the scaler at all the mills, there are the ones who personally know everyone selling logs and who is up to what. Give them your card personally.

 If you have a welder and basic fab skills its not impossible to make some removeable deck inserts so that some limited flatbed type work is possible.  mafia blocks for example.  
Im just brainstorming here, no idea whats goin on in your area, but hopefully this has helped. 

One more thought, facebook buy/sell groups or i dunno if they have like industry related regional groups and stuff on there.. Maybe loggers or builders associations.  Also craigslist ads.  If you put in the right keywords, tree industry folks will see it.  

(Stihl jonsered dolmar husqvarna gaffs spurrs arborist tophandle ms200 harness amsteel chipper tub grinder morbark vermeer skidder forwarder harvester gafner timberjack gearmatic carco ponse rottne timbco timberpro sawmill logosol woodmizer edger planer buzz saw circle saw corley prentice barko hood feller buncher grapple loader)

Well she's home, drove like a dream,  shifts good, engine brake works good,  air system DID work good until  about 5 hours ago.  Got out of Houston no problem.  I was enjoying the ride learning how to drive it,  then when I got to nacogdoches everything went terribly wrong.  I hit a big bump error riight before crossing a bridge and I heard something metal hit pavement and it sounded like something was grinding.  When I pulled over  I saw that my passenger side air tank strap had rusted of and caused my tank to crash in the ground.  So I spent 2 hours plus trying to figure out what to do.  I decided to strap it to the frame and that worked and one of  my air lines about 1/8 had ripped off.  I ended up building a little cap and limped her home.  My relief valve stoppesd working so I had to watch my gauge but I did manage to get her home,  could've been worss I suppose

The line you capped must be the one to the governor, or at least that line is damaged and not shutting the comp down. It is not a relief valve, but should be an easy fix. Any decent truck or trailer parts store will have some airline kits, with an assortment of different size splices and fittings. These are not expensive, especially if you don't get the push on type, and a must to keep in the truck.

Sounds great though, best of luck with it.

One more thing, that rig more than likely does not have a working air drier, especially in that country down there, drain the water out of the air tanks daily, or it will give you grief, then you will do it anyway.

Good to hear you got it home, post some pics! I always carry small ratchet straps and bungees for just such emergencies, also good to tie down a spare tire. I also carry along the usual tools (wrenches, vice grips, hammer etc). With any older truck, some of the money you make as an owner should go in the piggy bank for future maintenance next breakdown. (https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/wink.gif) 

I never carry a spare, I do carry a good plug kit and an air hose, the hose is a must have, even if one does not carry a plug kit.

Yea I definitely learned to keep tools with me at all times.  For the time being everything I make with my logging operation  will be put up for maintenance or for paying off my loan.  That's my plan anyway,  I didn't want to consider quitting my day job until I have everything paid off and I see I can make a living.

Dont quit your day job until going to it costs you more than it makes.   A lot of people will find that never comes.  The security of a steady income makes the roller coaster of business a lot easier to stomach, and makes it atleast possible to recover from biz setbacks.  Youve only got zero dollars for a week at a time.  

When things go really wrong on the self employed side you can have zero dollars for months.  Keep your extinguishers charged.

Just curious,  I live in Louisiana and my business is in Louisiana but I have an address I can use in Texas to register my truck.  It's much cheaper in Texas,  so can I register this truck in Texas even though my business is in Louisiana?  Or do I just need to suck it up and bend over?

That's definitely the plan but my goal is to eventually do this full time.  So hopefully it will all work out.

HOLD up, Texas has 5 major cities, and that is what insurance goes by on a commercial truck. When I changed the company and garage address out of Texas that was the reason, it saved me something like 7 grand a year to move it to New Mexico, which is where I actually run out of any. Check on insurance before you make that decision, and you will have to have records the dot can audit at headquarters, so do some investigatng. I think you can have your company with the records and a garage address in another, but am not positive if you can be a one truck company and pull that off or not.

Another thing, do some checking, but unless there is some exemptions on log trucks, you will either need to buy an ir tag, which lets you add Texas or louisiana to he tag, or a tag in both states if you run in them both. Now if you ir plate it in Louisiana, and run in Texas, if you pickup and drop off logs inside Texas, there is another 250 dollar license you have to have, and they will nail you on it., louisiana may have some of the same type deal, but since Texas is so big I always purchased it, because I would haul a load in state at times.

you could just let me know where that loader is.  ;D I been looking for one. 

Which loader are you talking about, and where are you located.

that $3,000 Barko 80. Im in Mississippi. 

Quote from: dirthawger on March 05, 2018, 10:15:21 PM
Just curious,  I live in Louisiana and my business is in Louisiana but I have an address I can use in Texas to register my truck.  It's much cheaper in Texas,  so can I register this truck in Texas even though my business is in Louisiana?  Or do I just need to suck it up and bend over?

The general rule of thumb here is that any jurisdiction collecting their money will say yes, while any getting "cheated" out of it will say no.  

Unless there is some kind of exemption for a log truck, which I kind of doubt, neither will be cheated, it will be registered in both states one way or the other.

I had Texas shut me down and demand I tag a truck with an exempt load of feed on one time, it had one pallet of dog food on it, which mad it non exempt. Thinking about tat, there may be some exemptions for the log truck, he needs to do some homework.

K well I don't mean to seem dumb,  I'm just trying to get this truck working.  What kind of tag should I get from the LA DMV?  Weight wise,  I know I'll  probably need a DOT number.  I just  don't want to waste any time or money getting stuff I don't need and not getting what I need.  I'm just new to this game and this truck will be much different than that little one.

If you do not want to pay the yearly 2290, do not license for over 54,000, without  a trailer you will not be able too anyway.
And that will save you 600 or so a year.
Do your homework, because lots of things have changed, I know they deregulated the Texas railroad commission, which will be a big plus for you, and it may be that logs are what is called an exempt commodity, in both Texas and La, which will also be a big plus for you, both authority wise and insurance requirements, not to mention the type of plate you have to run. If they turn out nonexempt, you will likely need an ir combo plate that basically divides the plate fees between the two states, the first year you will just have to pay the minimum,and keep up with your miles in each state for the amount o pay the next year, if you have to go that route, you will probably be required to get an ifta sticker and fole your fuel taxes quarterly, a pain but not terrible, once you get it all figured out.
Also if you have to go that route, the dot in the state your based out of are required to audit you at your office, within the first 6 months, so keep all maintenence records, logs (if required) fuel reciepts, driver qualification files, etc right up to date. it is not at all uncommon for carriers, which you will be to get 15,000  or more in fines for something you would not consider important at all, like a 30 minute discrepency on the time of day you fueled up.

Some states will send a dot out to school you up on matters to start with, some don't all as far as I know do have some seminars, I used to send my office girls to EVERY one they had, to try and keep up on it.

Another thing, while doing your homework, find the laws pertaining to you in written form, taking a dot officers word for something can cost thousands.

I am not trying to scare you off any, all this is doable, and you can hire an agent to take care of it for you, which is sometimes (usually) cheaper than trying to do it all yourself, faster too. Their charge used to be pretty minimal 300 or so to start, then 50 or so a month, may have gone up some by now.

Whether you hire one or not, your cell phone will get texts from them starting right after you file for your authority, and lasting a year or so. These texts will look like official DOT messages, but are just agents looking for customers.

 your commercial insurance agent and state Dept of revenue will probably be the most important calls. 

I dont think you can still get a DOT number without an MC number.  

Yes you can get a dot number without an mc  number, it is what I run under now. Mine is just to run instate now, much simpler. You can get a dot number in one day, very simple process.

The law changed probably 3 years ago, to where you have to file an update for your dot number every year before you can relicense your truck. I bet you have to have it before you even can purchase tags anyway.

With any luck my log truck is headed off road for a 3 year stint, so I will not have to mess with any of this except insurance, my fingers are crossed.

I cant remember the details, but a few months ago i tried to put a DOT number on my truck just to be a little more legit and there was some reason i couldnt.  It was online.  Might be a TN thing.  

I do not know Mike, even many construction company pickups are required to have one anymore.

Here is a kicker, as long as I stay in state, all I am required to have is a dot number, but legally if I haul any freight that originates out of state I am required to have a intrastate authority and all that goes along with it. The crazy thing is if I pickup or deliver to any of our ports, I am legally required to have it, but what they don't know doesn't hurt them.

You need a twic card now too right?

Its just too much for me to deal with.  Freight rates seem pretty good lately, no shortage of loads especially fb/sd.. but i dont see any way to startup without a huge initial upfront debt, then praying i live long enough to pay it off.  

I regret not paying the CDL school piper and jumping into a class 8 when i had the pile of money that i dont anymore. Hindsight and all that.  Trucking was never the plan and there was no way i could have predicted the future issues id encounter.  

Maybe it was the mandatory safety audit that made me not click go on that DOT number.  Does that sound right?

Mike, if you need to cross state lines is where it starts getting complicated, a dot number for staying in state is not too bad, BUT finding the people at the dmv that knows what is what is sometimes impossible, online straight with the dot is the way to go, if doing it yourself. The mandatory audit is only if you cross state lines, instate does not require it, and unless your safety rating takes a hit chances are a guy never gets audited.. I can no cross the state line with what I have got, so I have changed it twice, and when the feds notified me of my upcoming audit, I just change it back, the feds can not audit me unless I have it and since they send someone up from outside to do the audit, they are more than happy for me to change it back, to just a regular number.

Good to know, thanks

TWIC card - transportation workers identification credential. This is required for CDL drivers if you are hauling in and out of secure maritime ports, airports, or other areas regulated by the TSA. Unless you are hauling out of these, you don't necessarily need one, but it is a good form of photo ID with biometrics to have.

Mike, the twic card just chapped me, and I no longer have one or any plans to play that game again either.
One twic card holder can take in 5 trucks, the first time I went to a port after getting mine, there was 10 of us and 2 card holders. The port was Valdez, city streets actually rub through the port, there is no one in the guard shack and kids came through on bicycles all night. The first thing I did the next morning wa ask who I needed to show the card too, they said nobody, I told them I had to go through the hassle of getting it, someone was going to look at the thing.
Now when it first came out they would let us on military bases, negating the hassle of getting a pass, which made them somewhat worth it, but that changed in a year or so, so when mine expired I decided to quit giving them money, same with my hazmat, I may have to get hazmat again, but not playing the game unless I really need it.
The older I get the less tolerance I have for much of the hassles.

O look, another pointless racket that makes truckers retire.  OMG theres a trucker shortage! Quick, immigrant driver special visas.. Self driving electric trucks.. Someone think of something to fix this crisis!

mike if you want to go over the road. get your class 1 and find a trucking co that will finance one of there trucks for you. then you lease on with them. my wife is cfo of the largest trucking in this state. they have about 500 of there own trucks along with 200 broker trucks and 2000 trailers. they have set up lots of guys that wanted to be oo. how far from sumper sc are you?

Pretty far.  At this point in parenthood i cant go OTR for someone else, it doesnt work for my marriage or family life.  I was pretty close to jumping in on my own so that northbound freight would finance my own southbound equipment moves.  When that was done id just get a bunk trailer and haul logs local. Not gonna happen now.  

Mike, school is not a requirement to get a cdl, if you have a truck to use. you can also legally go get your stuff without any authority, but you wouldn't be able to haul anything up to make expenses.
I am not up on it, but you can run not for hire signs and buy your way from state to state, like we used to do if caught, back in the outlaw days.

I dont have the money to get burned again.  

Cant test in my truck, no parking brake means no pass pre-trip.  no provision for one because of the road ranger swap. Plus its juice brake so an A57 is best i could do with it.   

Again im stealing someone elses thread, why dont we let this go please.  

Well I'm situation is somewhat unique.  I live 3 miles from Texas state line,  I only haul to Mills in Texas so I dunno if that might help my situation.

Legally, probably not, but if you don't have to go through the scales it is always a help, ALWAYS Texas has the roving DOT in that area, so they will be checking you out.

Like I said eariier, research your insurance costs, it could very well make a decision for you.

Insurance wise LA and TX are about the the same,  it's the sales tax.  There is no sales tax in TX but id have to pay $1500 in sales tax in LA.  That's really what I'm trying to get around,  it's already expensive to get legal,  don't want to add to it if I don't have to.

What kind of agent?  I'd be very interested in hiring a professional to get everything in order.

Well it looks like Louisiana is going to be my best bet,  I'll need forestry plates at $0.28 per 100lbs and would like for someone with more experience to explain this forestry products insurance exemption REQUIRED PROOF OF LIABILITY INSURANCE PRIOR TO (http://dpsweb.dps.louisiana.gov/omv1.nsf/47c22a6b4cac67ec862570c90053bd7f/89f0a313d753f522862564cf004a2c5f?OpenDocument&Highlight=2,Liability,limits) didn't make sense to me. My plan is to register it for 50000 lb

If you have to buy IR plates neither state can charge you sales tax, fed law prohibits it.
Go to either of the truck stops there at greenwood and they will have a rack with some little 7X9 inch or so truck books full of adds, there will be agents listed in some of them.

I have been getting calls from them, pretty much daily since they changed the eld laws, even woke me up this morning, they can be aggrivating.

Guys, i feel sorry for you. 

I thought Europe was bad with all the legal requirements etc. 

But you seem to have a pretty nasty system in the us. Worse than here i'd think, by the sound of what you are saying. I thought the USA was a land of freedom.  Thought, over here, making custom cars, hot rods etc, is completely forbidden. Only UK, and Germany allow some of that. In italy, on the other side of the border from me, just changing the tire size of a car, requires approval from the officials. And selling a car meant going to the solicitor, few years back. 

Here's also another potentially dumb question.  When I get to these Mills,  I'll have my loader resting on the load,  what do you guys do with the loader to get unloaded?  I assume collapse the cylinders so that the loader is curled up close to the cab.

Just swing it over the side and set the grapple down until they unload you. 

We stand ours straight up.

Just don't forget to put the boom back in place before leaving. It's been done

Yea that would be quite embarrassing. I did have a question. Kinda seeking advice, I went to a loggers safety class so I can get my loggers license, chatted with a few of them about what I got going on. They all recommend if I want to own a logging business then I should work for a reputable logging company. I very much agree with that but the problem lies with what I make currently at the coal mine. I get paid $30 an hour with benefits. While I agree that is sound advice, I dunno if that'd work for me, I mean I'd love to work for a logger and run my business on the side until I'm knowledgeable enough to go on my own. I just don't think anyone is going to pay me what i make now. I personally think running my business on my days off from the mine and slowly build it up is better for me. Y'all got a take on that?

Keep your day job and run the sideline the best way you can, is the best advice I can give.

Question, is a logging license required, is that a la or Tx thing or what, shoot when I left Texas you could be the contractor on any govt job without a license, there was no  need for a contractors license, I couldn't imagine back then they would have even had such a thing as a logging license available.

At 30 bucks/h i would also keep the job and be a weekend logger.

I don't know what you northern loggers earn but what i read here on the FF, for most it's surly less 

It is hard to say what the loggers hers average, but they have to pay 25 bucks and hour minimum for any help they hire, figure close to double that after workmens comp and ss.

If you can make $30/hr after expenses with logging, call me up and tell me how.  

Logging is pretty simple.  Cut tree, get tree on trailer, get it to the mill.  (Not claiming thats always easy)

What will make you good or bad at it is how accurately you can make your logs into the rough stock the mill wants to buy.  So go see the mills first.  Get their price sheet and spec sheet, go talk to the scalers and ask what the most common mistakes are daily in their yard.  Theyll be glad to tell you.  Figure out what they want and then go cut trees for their spec. 


Try to learn as much as you can from them about any future trends they percieve.. Rise or fall in orders or contracts.  This always helps you make better decisions in real time.  Always chat your scaler up.  

Around here, you go to the woods because you like it, there isn't much that is better than a sunrise view up from up on top of the world, it isn't about money. 
Every body thinks I am nuts for running a log truck, most jobs I can bring in 550 a day, less fuel, tires, licenses and all the garbage along with it, and 800 or so a month for insurance, PLUS to run a truck here you have to have a shop, which runs me 3 grand a month. If I drive someone elses truck, with zero expenses I bring in 750 to 1000 a day, if I run my road truck I spend more on fuel and maintenance, but don't untrack for less than 1500 a day, and double that a lot of days. Come to think of it, maybe I am crazy, them sunrises are spendy.

Well are you too busy hauling logs to post? Hopefully you got it figured out.

It's been a royal nightmare, the straps that hold the air tanks were rusted and broke halfway home. Got it home and called up the mechanic I used before to fix it plus a few more things. Gave him $4000 like an idiot cause I thought I could trust him, haven't heard from him since, working on filing a lawsuit but apparently he has a long arrest record so he don't care. Hired another guy found off Craigslist, again like the idiot I am. He actually fixed most of the stuff but the last day I gave him the rest of the money, he called said it was done. I get to the truck and these air tanks are strapped with some flimsy looking crap, I can move the air tanks with my hands. The fuel tank he fixed, I guess he couldn't figure out how to put the the strap back on so he cut one and strapped it with some more flimsy crap.  I gave him $3000 like an idiot, truck still isn't fixed. I decided to hire an actual mechanic that has an actual business. We got parts ordered. He pointed out some more stuff that needs to be fixed but I can only do bare minimum right now, so he fixed it to where I could drive it. I got it loaded right now, will make my first load tomorrow. I still don't have my tags other than my temp but I got to make a little money, I'm about to have to eat into my retirement. I've started questioning what I've gotten myself into, but I don't want to give up but *DanG, the hits keep on coming, most are a result of my own stupidity.

The loader does work well but it's got a pretty bad hydraulic leak at both main cylinders and at the grapple itself, which I'm sure all of that is very expensive. My lift axle isn't working, which I'm wondering if it's the switch itself. And he did replace a leaking seal where the driveline comes into the first set of rears, but I opened the port where I assume is the filler port and nothing came out, what oil do I use for that?  At least the dang engine runs good. I've learned how to float the gears but the clutch sticks real bad.

But I got her loaded, and unfortunately it just started raining and my driveway is gravel so I'm wondering if I can even get it out. It's been a very discouraging month to say the least.

Number one, do not get caught with a load and a temp tag, what ever you do, it just doesn't work like that with commercial vehicles.
You need to know what gear oil is in the rear, before you just add to it, most of us run synthetic, but that would only be a guess and you don't want to mix it.

I hate to say it, but it sounds like you have bought a money pit, at the very least someones elses headache that they didn't stay on top of, but don't look back now, get it all together and you will be fine, as long as you stay away from the cheap/expensive fly by nights you have been trying to use.
Whoever you have fix it HAS to fix it right, or you will have a dot nightmare, at the very least keep it clean and looking good, appearance goes a long way with the dot, and Texas has been known to ticket folks for a dirty truck.

Yeah I'm committed now, I'm not going to give up,  so you think I should not haul the load I got in there? I guess the obvious answer is no but I'm in such a bind I'm not v sure what to do. Am I correct in that port on the rears being the filler port? How do I find out what oil is in there?  As far as the clutch sticking, what should I look for?  It goes in gear just fine the clutch just sticks.  I'm not quite sure if it's a money pit yet or not. And is right now but that's my own fault or I could just be in denial

Personally I would take back roads, go at night and wait for them to open to unload or what ever it takes to get the load in without running across the dot.

As far as the oil, I don't know of a way to tell, it all smells the same or very close to it once it has been used, I always changed mine before I needed to add any when I bought a truck. Most rears just have one fill plug, but some rockwells actually had two, iirc it was the sqhd's and you used the lower one, I never knew why the other one was in there, but I used it once and had to drain some back out, as it caused problems.
If you can touch the oil with your finger, you will be okay to make a few loads, then change it, do not let it get too low though or it gets expensive quick. Is the clutch pedal sticking down, or what do you mean by sticking?

I opened the port and couldn't feel any oil, I'm not sure if that is a filler port but it looks like one. When I depress the clutch it comes up halfway and I have to pull it back up with my foot or hand. Transmission shifts gears just fine.

Where I'm going to unload I've never seen DOT but it's risky but I need to make some money.

dirthawger have you checked on farm tag? I don't know the laws but in MS I run farm tag on my truck. it does 2 things first off its cheaper a lot cheaper 2nd there no yearly inspection of your truck. Now DOT can make sure you have breaks and such but Its not like a reg inspection. 

As far as logging this is what I did. I still worked my day job when its oilfield so Im gone a month and home a month. I cut peoples timber that could not get anyone to cut it. They might have a load or 2. Now I don't pay top dollar for the timber far from it but I'm upfront on what I will pay and i given then copy of the ticket if they want it. Remember most of the time no one will move for 15-20 tons. Do them a good job and someone down the road might want a few loads cut. I cut a lot out of peoples yards sometime I charge them to cut it. You have to be careful charging if you run farm tag thow.  It depends on how much clean up they want and how hard its going to be to cut it. The only way I cut pulpwood is the tops out of logs. I tell the land owner $2 a ton for the tops or I leave them laying. Too much work. If I get 30 tons saw logs 2 loads I will make $800 a day. That's not hard for me to get by my self. The Key is don't tear up your stuff and know when to say I cant do that job.  

What you will learn from a big time logger you will not be able to apply to your little rig. 

First off slow down.  It should be becoming obvious to you now that feeling pressured to make money is how you make bad decisions and lose more than you stood to make.  So you had the budget to get a 1" impact, wheel socket and a big bottlejack, big wrenches and 1" socket kit, welder, torches, tire levers, trans jack, plus a new clutch.   But now you dont and the work still needs to be done.  Big setback.

Its okay, youre still alive and you are on a road many others have travelled.  I lived in a broken truck up north last winter, separated from my wife and kids.  Engine out, tranny out, cylinder head off in a parking lot for 3 days... Yes.  Its scary in real time but you gotta regain your composure and be confident that youre gonna make it thru.  Yes, youre gonna learn some expensive lessons about business and equipment. That is the right of passage.  This aint no crowdsourced, clean clothes E-commerce lifestyle, youre gonna earn it and only old timers are really gonna know what youre going through.


Number 1.  The prices youve paid are insane.  Way way too generous for screwing with gas tanks.

Number 2.  Trucks never stop needing repairs and for the time being i think you should be buying the tools and making them yourself.  This might be your initial lesson that a month of you fixing it right the first time, isnt really so bad.  Spend your time getting good information, not your money on craigslist hacks.  If they can fix it, you can fix it.

3.  Pictures pictures pictures.  You dont know what youre lookin at yet, so take pictures and get them up so that other guys who do know can steer you.  Without seeing the situation tho, no one here can help you effectively. 



Youre probably best to drain those rears and refill with the spec'd fluid.  Youre gonna want to find the tags on the housing and 3rd members, wire off the grime and give em a shot of ezbake oven cleaner then wipe and take a photo.  Always have pictures in your phone of data plates incase they fall off.  Google that data and find a PDF from eaton or rockwell etc.  Itll spec fluid.  Call a truck service shop and find out who they buy bulk fluids from, its not gonna be autozone.  Get an account at the commercial truck lube place, theyll be cheaper.  Make up an air lid for forcing fluid up a hose into the diff from a pail. Just make sure its only a few PSI or youll be looking like a oilfield worker alright.  


For now, let the loader leak.  303 @ TS is about $26 a pail.  just keep the thing filled.  

Grease all the linkages in your clutch pedal and on your bellhousing. Get a bungee cord or door spring up under the for now to help pull it off the floor. It could be gummed at the fork or in the rocker on the cab etc.  Hose that all down with PB blaster and itll come apart easier when you need to pull trans.  While in there grease all the Ujoints, any suspension points and steering ends.  Also top and bottom kingpins.  I spray leaf springs with whatever oil too just to keep them from rusting in between.  When a fitting pukes grease all over i wipe that booger onto any exposed threads or nuts under the truck that are in reach.  Makes things easier to unbolt later and prevents rust. 

Youre gonna want a roll of airline and some pushlock splices on hand.  Fuses, wire, wirenuts, multimeter, fencewire, duct tape, zip ties, rags and basic tools.  

If you can't touch the fluid with a finger, that is scary, get a plastic coffee stir stick and see how low it is before going anywhere.
In that part of the country you can usually have the oil in the rears changed at a truck lube shop, cheaper than you can buy the lube yourself, the same thing with oil changes, the only reason to do it your self down there is if you like to get dirty.

I never used air for rearend grease myself, lube hand pumps that fit on 5 gallon pails are cheap, I have 3 of them so I don't have to switch pumps for tranny, which will take a different oil.

On your clutch, where the fork rod goes through the housing there is a grease zert on each side, these are sometimes hard to see even if someone has already added extensions and many people never greases them, if the extensions have not been added I would bet they have not been greasing them, they are hard to see and harder to get too. the inspection cover on the bottom of the bell housing should have an extension hanging out of it with a grease zert on it through the oval hole in the center of it and also gets passed over much of the time, if the extension has not been added you have to remove the cover (4 bolts) to grease it and you will want to add a short extension or you will not do it when you service your truck. Do NOT put much grease in the throw out bearing, a couple of shots are all it takes, and more hurts more than it helps. Many people over look these three grease fittings and they NEVER get greased, which causes problems in the long haul.
Grease the truck yourself, check every U-joint for slack every time, and slack in the pinion bearings EVERY time.
Right off the bat get an assortment kit of grease zerts, watch as these come in metric too, you will not need them for your truck, but I have NEVER bought a used truck that didn't have some zerts that were shot and wouldn't take grease, and I mean never, plus you will just have to change one once in a while, it is just the way it is.

Another couple of things
First as far as farm tags go, check the legalities esspecially for Texas, we tried it strictly for hauling hay, and it was just too much grief, we relicensed the trucks with commercial plates, Texas dot loves to mess with you and even though we were hauling our own hay, it was not legal unless we grew it ourselves.

Mike has a point as far as working on your own truck, most small time guys do, most big time guys have their own shops, but their is times when a guy is money ahead to take it to a reputable shop, if you intend to make a living with a truck down time is very costly and it is sometimes a lot cheaper to pay the price it takes to be up and running, especially with you having a day job.
There will be a good reputable shop in your area, you will just have to talk to other truckers, and even truck parts folks to find out who the smaller guys uses and build a relationship with them, you WILL need it, The money you have already given away would have gone a long way at a reputable shop.
One thing, each and every time you take your truck to have something fixed, they will point out something else that needs attention, if it is a decent shop they are doing you a favor and trying to save you money, not trying to take you for a ride like a lot of folks think.
I have not seen your truck, but have bought a lot of used trucks and ran a shop for years and worked on hundreds of them, I would bet just from your descriptions, that your truck was used hard and put up wet, with the least amount of maintenance possible, which is par for the coarse.
Unless the dealer did it, the first thing you need to do is get, some scrapers, and screw drivers and even a wire brush and get under it, and scrape all the old gunk off down to metal, then use a good pressure washer and a rainsuit and get it clean, and do this every so often, you can not afford to pay someone to do this, unless you are very lucky.
If you don't have a good pressure washer GET one, you will need it, I doubt that blue beacon wants a leaky log truck in their bay, and they do not get under it anyway, it is a nasty but neccassary job, and needs to be done more often if you run on dirt and muddy roads at all.
Their will be a truck parts supplier in your area, find them, you will get to be on a first name basis with their salesmen, I promise you this, check and see if there is a fleetpride store in the area, they usually are good to deal with and have better than average prices.

I appreciate the information and encouragement. I did get the rears full of oil and I made a load without any surprises. But i think I'm going to have to pay heavy highway use tax cause my total weight was 69000 that's carrying 18 tons. I need my vehicle inspection report before I can get forestry tags which I assume I can't get until my tanks are secured. Not sure what all those places look for.

I am sure your tanks will have to be secured.
Are you getting the tags in Texas? If so they I seem to remember you have to have it weighed and a vin inspection, but they also have a seperate yearly vehicle inspection that I think is required before you can buy tags.

As far as the truck weighing 69,000, that may or may not be a concern when buying tags. I was not aware Texas would allow that much weight on a straight truck, I know they sure didn't used to.

I need to say that I know exactly nothing about a Texas forestry tag. I do know that they have some exemptions from as least some trucking laws for log trucks in Texas.
I was on the side of the road getting a ticket for 7 feet over length with a lowboy, when a log truck came buy dragging logs on the highway every time he hit a bump, probably 40 feet over length. I ask the nice DOT officer and he told me the log truck was exempt for lenght laws.

I checked the Texas DOT website and you can purchase a 72 hour permit. It says you can use it in lieu of registration on laden trucks for commercial use. To me that says I can legally haul with that permit. I've got legit straps on my tanks now but my headlights have stopped working and I really needed to get the wood I have on the ground hauled off.  I'm only thinking of doing that because I don't think I'll pass an inspection with headlights not working. I checked and I have power going to them I guess they just decided to quit working. Not sure if I have to get those headlights from Mack or if you can buy them anywhere.

You can get headlights any where, odd that they both quit working and you still have power, do you still have ground ?
yes if Texas will sell you a permit, you should be able to haul.

Pop the harnesses off the back of the lamps, carry over a lawn mower battery and use jumpers to see if the bulbs are dear or the wires are.  

Dimmer switch ??

The dimmer switch on that old mack is still on the floor if I am not mistaken and they do go bad from time to time, but are easily accessed and checked, and can be replaced with any parts house dimmer switch from any 70's model fords or chevys, you might have to change the end terminals on the wires.

I bought an old Ford pick up truck,I had to rewire the head lights,they did not want to stay on. Had the dimmer switch on the floor and worked them off a toggle switch. Never failed me.

The old ford pickups had a breaker in the headlight switch itself. I never changed them over to a toggle switch, but did change several of the switches and added relays, to take the load off them, especially if using extra lights.
The truck will already have the headlights on a toggle switch, but I do not know how many prongs the mack will have.

I assumed, when he said they still had power to them, that he meant the headlight had power to it, but may have been wrong, it does need clarifying as to where he still has power.
By law you have to carry a spare headlight, so it would be an easy matter to just plug one in and see what happens.

I have 4 headlights, there each paired together so 2 on each side. Only the outside lights have power to them for some reason.  The outside lights which have a black have power to them at the light but no power on the inside lights which have a red wire. My lights are controlled by a toggle switch on the dash, haven't seen a dimmer switch.

I managed to find all my grease points, all of them took the grease, sadly it appears it hasn't been grease in years. But the clutch moves much better now.

You have power to two bulbs, but no lights, either you have a ground problem, easily checked or those two bulbs are burned out. Two of the bulbs will have two wires and two will have three, only 2 will burn on low beam, unless you modify it and change the bulbs out to high beam bulbs. There is definatily a dimmer switch, either on the floor by your left foot, or on the end of the turn signal switch. I think it should be on the floor in your mack, but could be wrong. It could be that someone has taken it out and just has the low beams hotwired, which will never pass inspection, as high and low are both required. As long as you have low beams, they can fine you, but can't shut you down, if the high beams are inoperable. 
I would get them right, especially if you are going to be running on temp permits, they love to hassle guys with them.

Right now I'm trying to decide if I should just get farm tags. I've been stopped before in the other log truck I had and he said I didn't need all that insurance and could run with farm tags if the wood is my personal property.  I won't haul 70,000lbs again, I didn't realize I weighed that much and when I saw the ticket it scared me to death. My empty weight is 32000,  how much of a load would you guys put on there?  And is the farm tags idea a bad one. And if I decide to get farm tags I think I'm just going to go register everything in Louisiana since that's where I live. I'm tired of confusing everything just to save a few bucks. Now problem is I only haul to Mills in Texas so what would I need since I'd be considered interstate commerce. And I found the dimmer switch on the floor, I guess it was just bad bulbs, I took the light out and the bulb feel into pieces, haven't checked the other side yet.

Quote from: starmac on March 08, 2018, 10:37:54 PM
If you have to buy IR plates neither state can charge you sales tax, fed law prohibits it.
Go to either of the truck stops there at greenwood and they will have a rack with some little 7X9 inch or so truck books full of adds, there will be agents listed in some of them.

I have been getting calls from them, pretty much daily since they changed the eld laws, even woke me up this morning, they can be aggrivating.

I just reread some of the posts what are IR plates? Because registering in Louisiana would be much easier and if I'm exempt from sales tax if I'm getting forestry tags then that's mucho bueno.

That state line is a problem for you man.  


You were 70k on that international?  Bravo!

Private Carriers of Property (F-Tag)

	35.VII.02.03 Mississippi Administrative Code Part VII, Subpart 2, Chapter 3
100	Section 27-19-3 of the Mississippi Code of 1972, as amended, provides that a "Private Carrier of Property" ("F" Tag) as being: 1. Any person transporting farm products produced on his own farm and also farm supplies, materials, and equipment used in the growing or production of his agricultural products in his own truck. 2. Any person transporting his own fish, including shellfish, in his own truck. 3. Any person transporting unprocessed forest products, wherein ownership remains the same, in his own truck.
101	For purposes of subsection (c), a forest product shall be considered "unprocessed" until such time as the same has undergone a physical change at the mill. Any change or procedure performed on the product at the mill, which changes the product in any manner, is deemed to be processed. By-products produced from forest products are also considered processed.
102	In addition, the ownership of the product must remain the same from the time the product leaves the forest. If ownership changes, then the product no longer qualifies as a forest product.
103	If said forest product is transported from one mill to another but is still in exactly the same form as when it was transported from the forest the first time (for example, the product has been in a holding yard); it is still considered to be "unprocessed" and can be transported as a "private carrier of property."
104	Any person making application for the farm license plate under the above restrictions may sign an affidavit attesting to these facts. I have been stopped and told DOT it was my trees. if you buy them before there cut in MS your ok. Now you cant cut for a MILL or a buyer. But as long as you and the land owner is good your ok.  In addition, the ownership of the product must remain the same from the time the product leaves the forest. If ownership changes, then the product no longer qualifies as a forest product. I can sell in LA but I cant bring anything back across the state line. Need a DOT thow.  This is Mississippi laws. I don't even need a CLD if I'm with in 150 miles of my farm.

Quote from: mike_belben on April 02, 2018, 11:32:51 PM
You were 70k on that international?  Bravo!
  

smiley_clapping

Oh no no, that international would've blown up. I was 70,000 on that Mack superliner. Y'all got it going on in MS I'll have to check my laws.

Dirthawger, IR plates is when you license in several states. You have to have authority to run wherever, I am not sure they would be feasible or even available for just two states. It is the registration all cross country trucks runs, and you keep up with the miles run in every state so that come time to register the next year, each state gets their share of the tag costs. I can't explain it all, but you also have to be in ifta and file quarterly fuel mileage reports, it would be a pain for what you are trying to accomplish. Besides the IR plate and all that goes with it, I also had to pay Texas another 250 a year iirc, so that I could pick up a load and deliver it in Texas. Texas was the only state that I did this for, mainly because it was next door and so big, I would sometimes haul freight within the state.  I did run dump trucks with a guy that was licensed out of Colorado with an ir plate in the Austin area, so it could be an option for you. You really need to talk to a licensing agent to find out your best option.

Think most states call it IRP.. Youll get more info with that term

Quote from: dirthawger on April 03, 2018, 11:32:37 AM
Y'all got it going on in MS I'll have to check my laws.

Its good for the small logger. The big loggers that cut for the Mills and GP and they cant get farm tags. I cut a good bit in LA on the east side of the MS river north of BR. I never had a problem. When I get in I'm cutting 3 acres just across in LA of big hardwood the guy is given me the trees to push the tops up and burn. There not going to be much to burn because what not pulpwood. I'm going to cut up for fire wood. its some of the biggest White oak I have ever seen about 30" and 75 foot straight tall.
When you get your truck and equipment going get your name out. Do people a good job and clean up some. You will have more free wood than you can cut and keep a full time job. 
Around here there not too many people cut just a few trees and none that will clean up some. 
From what I have read on here your paying way too much to have things worked on. Most parts you can get from a junk yard. Tank straps and such. Shoot I paid 3,000 for one of my trucks. I know when getting started its a lot on you. Finding equipment everything when you got to sell a load of wood to get fuel to get home. I was at a point I couldn't afford a saw file God willing everything worked out. The great thing is you fount this site. Man I wish I have when I started out. The post I have read are great and a lot of info. I still don't understand a lot of the norther guys how and why they cut like they go but its neat to see and read how they do it.       

Can't say on the mack, but the air tank straps are generally cheap enough from a dealer that I would not mess with pulling them off a junk truck if they gave them to me, now the fuel tank straps are a different story. I change the rubber between the straps and the tank on my kw every 4 or 5 years, and just the rubber is around 35 bucks a strap, I want to say new straps are in the 200 dollar range, but haven't bought any in years. I pulled my tanks and had my son wrap the tank itself under the straps with 4 inch by 1/8 inch aluminum, so the strap can never rub a hole in the tank. After he did mine, I bet 20 truckers around here had him do theirs the same way.

Starmac, aluminium on steel. That's risky. Due to electrolytic reactions.

My fuel tanks are aluminum, my air tanks on the kw's are steel, but aluminum on the international.

OK. I dont even know if an aluminium tank would be allowed here. May be if it's thick enough. 

Our KW 800 is aluminum air tanks well our Pete is steel.

Now with farm plate you could don't do farm plate for a truck like this you're not hauling our wood or planation farm wood. Here's another thing I'd think about up here a farm truck is legal to 60k vs the same truck that's 80k with standard plates.

Do I still need a DOT number if I have farm tags?

In my gloomy DOT opinion, the transport laws are intentionally unclear to reserve the option to ticket most anyone at any time.  There are literally 50+ shades of DOT by state and its probably the second biggest revenue machine for the states after the IRS.  What flys here wont fly there, so none of us can really say for sure.  You are probably better to find guys operating in your locale to gauge what the local enforcers have a wild hair about.  

 I have never been told the same thing twice by DOT.  

I don't remember if we had a dot number when we ran farm tags, but it seems like we didn't, but that was years ago and things have changed, plus we were strictly hauling hay and farm tags still didn't work for us in Texas, it was just too much hassle.

If you can't get a straight answer from the dmv, which I doubt, and don't want to use a licensing agent, check with the other local loggers and see what they are running.
Again there may be some exemptions for log trucks, in Texas, that there may or may not be in lousiana. you will be money ahead to talk to others in the business, if nothing else sit at the mill you are selling to and see what most of the other guys are running.

I hired unified compliance services, he told me I wouldn't be able to get farm tags, but I just have to apply for a unified carrier registration to cross state lines, which is $145 so not that big a deal. He said the fact I don't have a trailer makes it much easier. I called DMV and they were unsure what to of plate I'd need.

Can anyone recommend cheap truck insurance? In an effort to make things easier I was just transferring everything to Louisiana, progressive doesn't cover log trucks in Louisiana, LOL it just keeps getting dumber

Can't help you there, but good luck. It might pay you to join OOIDA, they have some deals with insurance companies, amoung other benefits. I should have told you to check them out before you hired an agent, probably saved a few bucks, but didn't think about them.

Call a load broker and ask who the more common insurance carriers they have on file with their haulers.  You might have to call a few.  A one man show will be much more likely to talk with you and actually know, vs some dispatch drone at a mega. 

Progressive was only people willing to insure me. 

Quote from: dirthawger on April 04, 2018, 04:45:52 PM
Can anyone recommend cheap truck insurance? In an effort to make things easier I was just transferring everything to Louisiana, progressive doesn't cover log trucks in Louisiana, LOL it just keeps getting dumber

stake body truck under progressive if you run farm tag your not a logger your a farmer and your truck is a stake body truck not for hire. That's what we run in MS that truck can carry anything from logs to cotton not for hire. so your not a logger your a farmer. 

Quote from: dirthawger on April 04, 2018, 08:37:59 AM
Do I still need a DOT number if I have farm tags?

I don't have have one. 

So I have to go with Texas for insurance, they are $6000 a year cheaper then Louisiana. My problem is the garaging address. Can I go open a PO box in Texas and use that as my garaging address? Or do insurance companies not allow PO boxes.

I am not sure on that, when we first got our authority, we used the accountants address that set it up for a garage address in Texas, but then it cut insurance in half to change the garage address to New Mexico.

Well it's all starting to come back together. My truck is almost ready for the road. Found an honest mechanic who agreed to cut me a discount for helping him and showing me basic things to look for on a big rig, guess he felt sorry for me.  It would've been ready today but I made the mistake of taking the starter off without taking a picture first. I got my truck insured through Texas. Got my AG and Timber registration number to get farm tags. Only thing that seems unclear is on the application for farm tags it says tractor should not exceed 48,000 lbs. But when you go to Texas DMV website and download the guide to farm trucks it says if the tractor exceeds 80,000lbs then you need an annual Timber overweight permit $900 a year. But as someone mentioned earlier, it appears all these laws are intentionally left unclear to allow them to write tickets at their discretion, whether or not your attempting to be legal. This thread should be renamed to "what to do and not do when starting a Timber business".

Oh and just to put it in perspective on how impossible it is for truckers in Louisiana to make a living, my annual rate for a $500,000  policy for a log truck in Texas is $3100 a year. I got a quote in Louisiana for $15,000 a year.

I was under the impression that the minimum was always 750,000 on liability, but even back in the 80's I always kept 1 million, now I keep 2 million and it is required by a lot of my customers, log trucks must have laws of their own.

The 80,000 in Texas is for a 5 axle semi set up, not applicable to your truck, unless you pull a pup.
According to my book, you are good for 34,000 on the tandems and the steer depends on the manufacturers rating marked on the steer tires, which should be at least 6,000 a piece, which would put you good for 46,000, bigger steer tires can be run for a little more.

No lift axle on this rig?

Yes it's got a lift axle for my third axle on the back.  I might just have to purchase a overweight Timber permit every year then cause it weighs 32,000 empty so that would put me only being able to haul 16,000 lbs.

This is my rig.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47212/mg_2~0.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1523076114)

Does Texas allow you anything for a lift axle?? I know they sure didn't used to and don't on semi trucks.
I know here a lift axle actually gets you docked 3000 pounds, plus what the axle weighs, but we can have all the lift axles on trailers we can use, go figure.

Its sure sounds like a system designed to screw us.

Nice rig, I've seen a lot worse! You should be able to find (new and junkyard) parts for it. Make sure too check the hydraulic hoses are good before you do too much heavy lifting. (https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Not really Mike, You don't see many straight trucks, especially with a loader, I only know of two, and one just hauls his own firewood, the other is a single axle with a dump bed, too heavy for anything, so it has not even untracked in well over a year.
Concrete trucks are, as far as I know are the only ones that benefits from a lift axle, I guess we need concrete more than logs. lol

We can use lift axles on any overweight permit loads.
The state already allows us 38,000 on a tandem, so if you deduct the weight of an axle, wheels, tires and suspension, you are not gaining much with 42,000 and an extra axle.
Tridems are legal, but like I said, good for 42,000 and when you factor in the weight, you don,t gain much.

I can agree with the spirit of bridge law to spread the load over a larger foot print and be kinder to the roads and bridges.  

ive yet to be enlightened on the logic of penalizing/refusing to recognize a 3rd axle. I think its contrary to the spirit of bridge law.  Kinda makes me feel like the same agency is making two conflicting statements as it suits them

Hey your truck needs to be longer to spread the load!

No no. Get that lift axle up, its not helping you to spread the load.  

Which one is it?  Cant be both.  

The thing here with a lift axle, and the dot knows it, is you can not leave it down, just too dangerous, so the dot knows you will only have it on the ground part time.

Well I thought I put the starter on correctly but when I went to go hook up the positive terminals on the battery it sparked a little like it was loading up just like any other battery but I got in the driver seat and the key was in the on position. Now when I turn the key to the on position nothing happens. No power to gauges or anything. Is it possible I sent a surge of power through the system and blew a fuse since I had the key in the on position? Which fuses would I even check? 

I am not sure what that mack even has for fuses, but if none is marked ignition, take your test light and test them all.
Is it 12 or 24 volt start?

Not sure how to tell if it's 12 or 24 volt. I only have a test light that lights up when there's power. Is that what I need to test fuses or do I need to buy a voltmeter?

You should be able to get by with the test light, just make sure both sides of the fuses have power. I have even seen good fuses not be making good contact, so the power was not getting through even though the fuse was not blown.

Is there a volt meter in the dash, if so is it regestering voltage?

Is your headlights working, turn signals, Those two should work with key off, try the heater motor with key on and see if it works.

You now have me wondering, why did you have the starter off to start with??

No, no power anywhere, no on gauges or anything. I changed the starter cause a wire broke of the solenoid and when I tried to take the wire off the solenoid broke.

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47212/IMG_20180407_184121.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1523144895) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47212/IMG_20180407_184104.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1523144901)

I don't think I blew a fuse I got it hooked up wrong. I think I've lost a ground. On my passenger side battery I unhooked the wires and clamped the end of my test light on the ground and touched the positive lead on the battery and it wouldn't light up. But then I clamped it to the negative terminal and touched the positive terminal on the battery and it lights up

Am I using this test light right? I've tried clamping to the frame and touching the positive lead on battery and it doesn't light up. If I am doing it right then I have no ground anywhere on this truck.

I definitely have it grounded out. I touched a screw driver to the two terminals on the solenoid on the starter itself and it really popped. I have both positive wires from both batteries hooked up to the top terminal on the solenoid on the starter. I then hooked up both grounds from both batteries to the single terminal on the starter.

It is suppose to pop when you short across it, infact it should turn the engine over when you short across the solenoid.If both positives are going to the main terminal on the solenoid and both grounds going to the ground terminal on the starter housing, but you have no power to the cab, the problem is in one of the wires that also hooks to the main terminal on the solenoid.

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47212/IMG_20180407_184104.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1523144901)in this picture the wire with black electrical tape is hooked up on the solenoid terminal that has both positives on it.

The red wire coming out of the cab is connected with 2 other red wires wrapped in the black electrical tape. One wire goes to that solenoid the other goes to the alternator.

The red wire on the solenoid on the right side without black tape goes down to the starter on a small terminal beside the two 1/2" terminals. 

Clearly I've created a mess that I'm trying to decipher. Any help will be appreciated.

Well Mr. DH, you sure do jump in with both feet.  Im gonna try to baby step my way through this with you but youre gonna need a multimeter with a beep mode for continuity.  A test light isnt good enough for wire tracing.   Harbor freight $9 job is fine.  Also dig up like 20ft of speaker wire and atleast 4 crimp on alligator clips.   Were gonna make some test jumpers that youll keep in the truck and will get you out of a bind now and then. 


Meanwhile, pull a part number off the starter solenoid and figure out if its a 12v or 24v.  Then were gonna verify your battery connections and also that you have a shutoff on the ground side incase the starter ever sticks on.  It WILL burn the entire truck to the ground if it happens.  

Let me know when youre ready.

Ok, I can't be sure, but from what I see that firewall mounted solenoid(relay) is used to power up the cab and send the signal to the solenoid on the starter. If I am looking at it right it needs the redwire that is going into the cab to be on the other terminal (hot side) of the firewall mounted solenoid.  I am pretty sure the cab is hot on that mack, and doesn't work on grounds, there has to be juice going into the cab at all times.

I also need to mention that they had a wire coming directly from the driver side negative battery terminal to the starter relay.  I did forget to put that one on but why would you need a ground wire going to the relay? The small black wire I currently have is coming from that buss bar and I don't think it needs to be there.

Starmac now that you say that I'm around 90% sure I need to switch that wire coming from the cab to the other side and leave the one going to the alternator where it's at, sound right? The wire coming from the cab, do I also need to put that wire on the starter solenoid positive terminal with the rest of them?

Forget what I've said about the alternator wire. The wire coming from cab, wire going to alternator are joined together wrapped in that black tape. I'm going to switch that wire to the left side of the relay. Leave the other wire on the right side but terminate it on the positive terminal on the solenoid.

Then I'm going to take that small black wire off. Run a wire from the negative terminal to the small terminal on the top of the relay. I think that's how it goes. I didn't blow a fuse because I didn't have power in the cab to begin with. 

Its just too much this wire that wire vaguery.  No one can accurately work with these terms.  Your remote solenoids control coil should be grounded by the solenoid mounting chassis to truck body and the truck body should have continuity with battery negative.  When you apply voltage to the coil it energizes and creates a magnetic field that pulls a metal wiper and closes a copper switch, connecting the two big lugs so that there is a direct path from battery to starter motor. 

If a ground wire had to go direct from negative post to solenoid it likely means your body is floating, it is not bonded to ground.  

Chomp some jumper cables from negative terminal to some bodywork and see if anything changes.

It may have had a small ground to the bolts holding the relay on, but no ground should be hooked to that small terminal, that should be your ignition starter wire, coming from your key switch or button, whatever you have.

Yes their should be ground going from batteries to frame, ground strap from frame to starter, and engine block, plus a couple of ground straps to the cab also.

EXTRA ground straps have never hurt anything either, if your cab is not well grounded you will forever be having electrical troubles.

Yup.  Dim stuff is usually a good indication the steel ground paths are getting junky.  

On old trucks i take loppers to every wire and start over.  Switches, relays, fuse panels all my own.  Havent regretted it yet.  

In got power back in cab and everything hooked up the way I thought was right but I don't get anything

Let me know when youve got that multimeter and jumper rig.  And looked up the solenoid part number.

I got multimeter and jumper rig, it's a 12volt.  I took out the key switch and replaced with a new one. The old key switch had a terminal for, IGN, ST, ACC, BAT. The new key switch had the same thing so I hooked it up exactly like the old one. I traced the ST wire and know where it's at on the buss bar. I traced the IGN wire and found 2 terminals on the buss bar, they are right beside each other. The old starter relay was only hooked up on the ST terminal, nothing on IGN. That could've been wrong. So I made a jumper wire from ST TERMINAL on buss bar to ST TERMINAL on ST TERMINAL on starter relay. I then made a jumper from one of the IGN terminals from buss bar to the IGN terminal on starter relay. Then I made a wire from IGN terminal on starter relay to the key signal terminal on the starter solenoid. Didn't work. But at least I get power in cab now

So its a 12v starter.  Youve got two batteries with the plusses together and the minuses together? 

Do you have a master shutoff switch?  

Does this buss bar have 12v on it?  

Take your meter, set it to beep mode and test the leads to be sure it beeps when touching them.  Pull that ground wire off and probe your solenoid, across the two small lugs.  Then one small lug at a timeb to the base.  We are looking to find the coil ends. Its just a loop of wire around an iron core. Wherever it beeps are your ends and the loop of wire is between those two points only.   The big lugs should be isolated from the small lugs.  Check those to be sure they do not beep.  Also check big lugs to baseplate and be sure they dont beep either. 

Let me know which beeps.  While we are at it, scratch up some tin and probe from body to battery negative.  Tell me if you can get a solid beep.  

Wasn't this truck starting before you changed the starter??? what is the reason for changing the ign switch. Adding jumpers here and there is going to bite you before it is over with. There should be and was before you started messing with it  ONE large hot wire going into the cab to some sort of panel, (fuse breakers) or even just a distribution panel.  The cab and ign switch will get it's power from that one large wire, including all lights, switches, heater and even winshield wiper switches (if electric).
If this truck had juice for lights, starter, etc, etc, when you started working on it, then you have a wire either left off or in the wrong place, but it WILL be one of the ones you had off of it. I suspect it is on the new relay, as there is no way it can work the way it is currently wired.

Got her rolling! Meet a mechanic up at NAPA and he overheard my conversation. Came over to help me figure it out. Turned out to be a loose wire. His payment was trash pine wood. I'll be loading that rig up tomorrow morning. I suppose I'm just gonna have to be a little overweight cause I can't figure out what I can legally haul, but it's gonna have to be more than 48,000 lbs. I went to the CAT scales a couple hours ago and my empty weight is 33,140 lbs.

Glad to hear.  Those gremlins can drive ya nuts!  

Be safe DH.

Well day didn't go as planned, my hydraulic cylinder need repacking and a new rod, found someone to make a new rod cheap. I'm hoping this is the last repair for a little bit. But the neglect this truck has been through I'm sure it won't be.

I was wondering if anyone does this, I was thinking of changing my business plan. I had my Norwood sawmill up for sale that I still haven't had time to put together.  So I started working on it again since my truck will be down a couple days. I was thinking of hauling only pulpwood to the mill and the nicer logs mill up and sale the boards. Anyone do that?

There is lots of folks that does just that, problem is, you have to either be well heeled enough to sit on inventory, or find some wholesale market for at least most of it, and iirc, you bought a manual mill. Nothing against the mill, but I doubt it is going to be what you want for a venture of this nature.
I am wanting to build a self load long logger, primarily to be able to unload logs at my mill, but then I can sell logs to other small mills and even to people that buy truck loads of firewood and process it them selves.

Sell whatever you can sell until youve recouped some coin.   Mill whatever you cant sell until youre a good sawyer.  There will be plenty of logs thatre a few inches too short for selling.   Bring those home to saw.  

No I know a manual mill isn't ideal but I couldn't justify $500 month note on top of all the other stuff. I want small scale logging to be my primary money maker (so far it's been a money pit, but a labor of love) logs that are too short or if I just need more logs, I'd like to mill them up (milling part of business would be more of a hobby until I get good enough for a hydraulic and I see I can sell the wood) then the tops I can't sell or mill, split into firewood. That's my plan anyway.  Tomorrow that loader and truck bed are getting a paint job. I've spent too much time and money on it, might as well make it look good.

Looking good goes a long ways with the dot. That is not a bad looking truck, get it lined out and keep it up to where it will pass a roadside inspection, don't fret it much if it never completely passes a Texas inspection, as that is a real unusual occurance. I even got a ticket for a cracked mudflap once, but it did have a crack in it.

Dirthhawger I know its a long way but there a guy that has some fine hardwood in BR that he wants cut for free. I don't have time to get to it and he cant find anyone to cut it. There at less 150 ton of white oak logs and that much pine logs. PM me and I send you his number.  

I wish I could but that's a real long way for me to go, I'd be afraid to drive that truck that far.

Now that is scary, what about it is it that you are afraid of? 

Having all his current issues 200 miles from home?

I hear you, BUT 200 miles is sure not far for a piece of equipment such as a semi, it should be up to 3 times that task 7 days a week. Any problems that makes it undependable needs addressed , so that it can be used to at least part  of it's potential, or it will not pay for itself at home either, been there and done that. 
A poorly maintained truck, is the quickest way to bankruptcy that I know of, the costs of ownership goes on whether you are using it or not.
It could be that working that far from home will not work out in his business plan though, due to having a full time job too.

Give him time, hes just getting started with a new rig. They dont fix themselves overnight. 

Ok I'm going try to get to it. I might be able to put one of the other jobs off. I got 4 weeks to cut two 5 acres lots there pretty good pine and four 3 acres lot that is free. Most of them is pine too. I got 50 acres to start too. I got 15 trees I'm cutting out of a yard its insurance job so i will get paid to cut each tree but i have to clean up all the mess. Insurance paying me $1500 a tree. He had one tree fall on his house so we getting them all.  There big pine trees. I fig it take me 4 days on that job. 

Dirthhawger wish you was closer we could work together some. That job in BR i fig with fuel and everything I make 15K off it. 

  

Yeah sounds like a good job, I'm not necessarily scared to drive it that far, just wasn't sure what else to type I guess. I can't right now cause I'm trying to get the couple jobs I have completed. One is my place, the other has wood on the ground about a load of pulp. Then my church needs to be cut, I guess 150 tons of pulp and 75 tons of logs. Then I have 8 acres of good pine to cut. I advertised prematurely and I'm trying to get them taken care of.
I got my cylinder back and would've been hauling today but went to register my truck for farm tags, they said u need an inspection. I went to a place that does DOT inspections but they don't do big trucks. So I'm just gonna get a permit until I'm caught up and have a little cash in my hand.

Not saying I wouldn't do it but with my current success rate of 0%, I wanna at least make a load without any problems before I haul all my equipment that far down south. That would straight up suck to have another major issue 300 miles from home, just not ready for that quite yet, need to figure out how to use the loader first.

I think it's better not to be in to big of a hurry. Logging as well as life is like the joke of the old bull & young bull standing on the hill looking down at the herd of heifer's. (The punch line is somewhere on the Forum I believe)

Definitely slow down and get your practice in on close, small, low risk jobs before you paddle out into the big stuff and get body slammed by things you hadnt anticipated for lack of experience. 

I always lose my butt when i make my first bids on a new type of work.  It takes time to see your strengths and weakness and rates of pay vs rates of expense etc.

...and dont let the struggle get you down.

Its 120 miles from me.My wife drove down and looked at it and said there be no problem getting in and out.  She met the owner and he told her if I could get it cut by the end of May he was going have it pushed up and burned. There going to build some warehouse there. My wife lines up most my jobs lol so she pushing off a few of my smaller jobs. She talked to two mills about 20 miles from where its at. They will take it all the hard wood and Pine. She said she thinks there at less 100 ton of pecan saw logs on it too. She is checking to see where we can sell it at. looks like I'm going to spend a few days in BR. She works as a nurse and She will plan it when she has her 5 days off in a row. I told her she driving the Log Hog!!!! I really cant get over he cant get anyone to cut it.   

I get this job done I'm going to be able to get me a skidder too.   

Buddy, You hold on to that woman

Mike she is working me to death!!! lol I do want to put some lines out one weekend (fishing)!!! She is great. She can drive truck nurse run a loader and tractors!!! I work over seas and she lines up everything and does my paper work. I will be home 5 weeks this time. I got a interview with Exxon on May 8th we are Praying I get that job. Our plan is for me to work 3 more years in the oilfield and We will have all of our equipment Paid off and our house paid off. I can come home and log full time then.   

House paid off makes for a lot of freedom.  Glad to hear you guys are on track.

Well did you get her back rolling yet?

Oh yeah she's rolling, I had a tree guy ask how much I charge to come load a tree he's cutting down, didn't have a clue what to tell him. What's the going rate for a self loader?

Just like anything else you have to figure your cost and add profit.  The tree might have a nice log you could sell....but dont count on it.  Tree guys cut where its convient and safe for them.  I have bought some logs from tree guys in the past and it takes a bit to train them .  Banjo

Quote from: dirthawger on April 17, 2018, 10:22:35 AM
Oh yeah she's rolling, I had a tree guy ask how much I charge to come load a tree he's cutting down, didn't have a clue what to tell him. What's the going rate for a self loader?

If all you got to do is come load it. make it worth you trip. at less $300 bucks and you get the wood free. 

Id get slapped for asking $300 to haul one tree.  

:D

Mike it would sit there before I spent too much time on it. What I run in too is most time the log cut is not cut right so I have to sell it as pulpwood. If there getting insurance to pay for it being cut there getting between $1000 and $2000 to cut it. 

Truck expenses doesn't go down when you just haul one tree, they stay awful close to the same. Then, what do you do with one tree, is it good for firewood? Will a mill even take one tree, and a yard tree at that?
I am thinking it would cost them that plus disposal if they got rid of it themselves.

Honestly I'd say your expenses would be more for a single log vs say a whole load because there's no offset of the load for your expenses. Typically our self loaders go X amount an hour for the loader work, then road time or x amount a mile. I've heard some of the guys are north of 5 to 7 a load not sure though we've never used a self loader.

And now you know why the rural south still has 1974 brigadiers and f600s running around.

Theres just no money to pay for that shiny new 1989 stuff!

To update you have to produce and be efficient Mike, one way is fuel, operator comfort which can help with production, another is setting up to retool.

Economics is regional.  We may produce luxury cars and fine timber, but we drive old junk and live in doublewides.  Clip off seattle, portland, norcal etc and your prices will totally change on everything too.  

The way I was taught, it doesn't matter if your equipment is 30 years old and paid for, you still have to charge like you bought a new one yesterday, or you are backing up.

Thats fine if everyone in the business agrees on a good rate and the market will bare it.  

You ever try competing against people willing to work for $7/hr?  I can "hold out" for better money.    It just means we starve.  

For 13 years I followed tree removal people with an old picker truck and seldom got a log cut right or one with no wind splits or no metal. [ Did I say this before?] I also had extra insurance on the loader. You better charge all you can get and collect it ! I hope you do better than I did.

Im in the business to make money I have walked away for some fine tracts because I would be running my equipment to just brake even. I wouth rather line up 5 - 3 acres lots that a 15 acres that someone is willing to cut to brake even. Last time home a guy come by where I was cutting asked me to get a tree they cut out of a mans yard. they charge the man $800 bucks to cut it and clean up. I gave the guy a price of $1500 to do the same. Well he went with $800. They could not move the big tree when they got it down so they come asked me if i would get it for the wood. I told them no! After it was all said and done they gave me $400 to load it on my truck how they cut it up I got one log out of it and burn the rest. End of the day they loss money on the job because they under bid me and didn't have the equipment to do the job. They will not do that again. 

I'm trying to learn to be more efficient when Im cutting but I don't want to waste sell trees I cut for pulp when they could be logs. My cutter will fit a 14.5" bottom but will cut an 18" tree. The way I figured if I can fit the bottom in the 14.5" opening then it's pulp. If it fits the 18" slot then it's a log. I'm spending too much time measuring trees trying to figure out if the bottom and tops are big enough for a log. Would this be a good rule of thumb? If the tree will fit the 14.5" slot then don't spend the time to measure the top? It automatically becomes pulp?

You felling with a buncher?  


Whats the price on pulp vs the price on a sawlog?

What kind of cutter you got?

Yea felling with a Barko 1080c. High end pulpwood goes for $33 a ton, low grade $27-29. Sawlogs from $37-42 a ton. It just seemed easier to sell most for high end pulpwood unless it's obvious it's a sawlogs. My plan was to cut everything that will fit in the cutter goes for pulpwood and the ones I hand cut goes for logs.

Wish i could help ya but ive never worked on those terms.  Im sure youll get faster with seat time.  

Maybe fell a few side by side then a cardboard go/no-go gauge behind your seat for sizing the tops all at once when you walk down there?  That way on the close ones you arent lookin at the tape 5 ways wondering if its oval or not.

How do you like the big bobcat?  Thats got planetary hubs and a 4bt in it?  Perkins?  Is it stable with all that weight and length or bounce all over?  Shear head or saw head?

If you have any hydraulic trouble with it call me, i kinda know the old obsolete systems pretty well now, they were funky and hard to find info on these days. 

What kind of sawlogs are only worth 42 bucks a ton. I thought wood was cheap here and know everything is relevant to location, but loggers here would leave it to rot in the woods for those prices. They quit hauling pulp when it went from 50 to 40 bucks a ton.

On those saw logs, what does 42 bucks a ton equate too in board feet?

HW pulp is 18-24 a ton around me.. Up to 30ish if it goes for a 2hr ride to alabama.

See a few pulp trailers every day so i guess its enough. 

Just seems unreal that wood can be delivered at that price with any profit at all.
When we had a pulp market, there was only two prices, no variables, it was 50 for spruce and 40 for aspen, but they would only take a small percentage of aspen. How do they figure the differences in your HW pricing, what is the reason for the variable price?

Profit.. ?  Who said anything about profit?  

:D

Well at 24 bucks a ton, and a legal load here being 30 tons, we are talking about 720 bucks a load.
Trucking costs are what they are and will be 500 minimum, so that leaves 220 a load to pay stumpage, build roads and landings, cut, skid and process, then load on a truck.  The stumpage varies some from sale to sale, and the state helps out a little on road building costs, by taking it off the stumpage, but still There is no way to make 24 bucks a ton work here, heck a logger may need a new chain file every 10 years or so. 

Yeah im at about 7 years on this one so... The end may be near

The Barko feller is a legit feller for a guy like me. Everyone laughs at it when I say it's a bobcat but that rig weighs a solid 20,000lbs. It's a shear head, cuts pine like but, takes a little work for 18" Hardwood. If I'm on flat ground it'll grab and go with it. I don't try to move it on slopes. I just cut and drop it at the stump and I think that's the way I'm going to do it on flat ground too. I cut a lot yesterday by felling everything from the stump. It's squeeze between trees really well, so it was just quicker for me to cut one, back up to the next and cut another one. So far it's been very reliable.

These are pine pulp and sawlog prices I'm talking about, HW pulp goes for $34 and logs $70. I don't pay stumpage either or build roads, I'm not a conventional logger. I'm doing kinda what Matt does.

Typically here we don't buy stumpage unless it's a government sale, road depends on the land owner and contractors agreement. 

Will they take saw logs cut with a shear, or is that just for pulp?

One of my friends has a hydroaxe shear, and used when we had a pulp market. He could lay a lot down in a days time.

Quote from: starmac on April 20, 2018, 02:19:48 PM
What kind of sawlogs are only worth 42 bucks a ton. I thought wood was cheap here and know everything is relevant to location, but loggers here would leave it to rot in the woods for those prices. They quit hauling pulp when it went from 50 to 40 bucks a ton.

On those saw logs, what does 42 bucks a ton equate too in board feet?

I'm getting 45 ton for saw logs 29 for chip and saw and 21 for pulpwood. I only have a saw so it's easier for me to cut the log out 10" small end. I can make money at that. Hardwood logs I'm getting 70 a ton but a load of hard was is few and far between

So theres just one grade for sawable hardwood?  

All i sell is hardwood sawlogs and theres up to 8 grades x 10 species not counting tie logs or walnut.  3 full sheets of paper. 

There only one mill that take them here if they don't take them to the pulpwood yard they go.

Man that stinks. 

Anyone know how to find tie buyers? Where I get 70 a ton they make ties and he won't really tell me who he sells to. Figured if he pays 70 a ton if I sold ties direct then they should go for good money.  I

Theres a pretty good chance the finished tie is sold direct to the company comtracted by the railroad to do the rail maintenance.  Ties are just above pallet logs.  Theres not much money in them.  

270-400/thousand on standard tie and 360-460 on switch tie is what i get.  A switch tie has to be 16'6, straight and sound hearts.  Red or white oak.  

So I've found that I enjoy the hauling part quite a bit. There's too much work involved in logging and not enough money for me anyway as a 1 man operation. I decided to sell my equipment and I'm just going to buy a truck and lease on to a company hauling wood chips. I can work when I want, I just show up with my truck and haul and make more money then having to do everything.  So this time around, I want to make good decisions when buying a truck, my big question is, at what mileage are you about to need a complete engine overhaul. I'm looking at peterbilt 379s in particular.

Good luck. there is no hard and fast rule for when an engine needs overhauling.
If it is making money with a truck your goal, you are once again starting out with the wrong thoughts in mind, for more than one reason, but I wish you the best.

Theres no way to know.  One guy can baby a truck to a million miles, another guy can tear it up a week off the showroom floor.  


What i learned the very hard and expensive way, was drop a gear, let it breathe and take your time in the hills.  I dont let EGT go over 900 anymore and try to keep boost below 20.  I dont care if i crest the hill at 5mph, im not tearing my truck up ever again.  No more heavy foot for me.  I have stopped having issues and avg 2mpg better.  

Lugging is hard on headstuds, headgasket, rings and rod bearings so dont do it.  

You know about ELD right?  1999 and older is exempt.

Mike that is funny because all I have is an old Hino FE, not a real truck.  However, it is a dog no top end speed at all.  I really don't do any hauling except a few special logs or wood for my farm.  That said, I will go on I81 and watch everyone fly by.  Sometimes I'm at 30-40mph cresting hills when I have 12k pounds of logs on the back.  Funny stuff.  They have it governed and I figured if Toyota thought that's what was safe then I won't mess with it.  Thing only has 130k miles and being a 1990 I think it will last for the rest of my life.  

My 466 is quite turned up and can run 80mph loaded up all the hills from here to massachusetts, but itll blow a brand new headgasket before it makes the tops if i keep my foot in it.  Especially when i had the timing way advanced.  Short sprints are okay but long hills make heatsoak and really need to be eased up to control that.  Its much worse in summer obviously.  


Chances are your hino is fuel governed and timed conservatively to limit cylinder pressure and EGT so you probably cant hurt it too bad if all systems are functional and maintained.  Its common tuning for all MDTs which are intended to be abused fleet vehicles.  They must endure careless operators - like a homeowner saw. 

With age the headgasket material will degrade and start to weep but still run okay until it doesnt.  Eventually you do a headgasket and life goes on.  Just dont run out of coolant or you crack things.  Been through that on an NPR.

Thanks, yep it is governed like that.  Since I am no trucker and prone to breaking equipment I figure it is a good thing it is governed.  Keeps me from repair bills.

50mph felt terribly slow until i experienced zero mph for a few days in a parking lot without food or heat or toilet.  


The further you venture from base and less disposable income you have on hand, the lighter your foot should be for trucking success.