Anybody have experience with the MT-70 forwarder from Awassos. Seems to be very little info on there website. Looks like it has a Kesla stroke head and could be an efficient setup for a small operation/landowner.
I seen that on their website. I wonder how much they run $ with just a grapple
Seeing that there skidder is upwards of 80k I'm guessing they want a pretty penny. The head is probably valued close to 80k alone. But it would eliminate the need for two machines and at 8.5 tons can easily be moved.
@pinefeller (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=32463) you need one of these - MT-70 - Wheeled articulated mini-harvester - AWASSOS inc. - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjpJB99Z9NI)
Forum sponsor Farma has a very sweet forwarder waiting for you.I don't know how to add the link or an image.Check out the gallery for some nice equipment.
Quote from: Cbown on February 20, 2018, 03:48:25 PM
Seeing that there skidder is upwards of 80k I'm guessing they want a pretty penny. The head is probably valued close to 80k alone. But it would eliminate the need for two machines and at 8.5 tons can easily be moved.
Man if that head costs 80k then I'm getting a good deal on the bigger heads they're not much more new. If I was a guessing game I'd bet that machine would be around 175k maybe more, but a lot of the same parts are used in their skidder as well so that would help with costs. Now if that machine had a small clam bunk on it I could see it being more useful, cut with the clam in front of you lay the stuff to one side and when the row is finished pick up on the way out process on the landing.
Just can't see how a young guy with a mortgage, a wife and little kids can swing a payment like that without compromising here and there or being a workaholic. There is only so much money to be made in logging, same as farming.
Production and doing niches or you do company work where it's steady production with jobs ahead of you all the time. I know a few guys that have newer equipment at around 30 years old with kids ect and also have employees that make it and profit.
Been there done that and at the end you're just spinning the wheel or you made some money because your property went up in value or your wife is a teacher. Now I am too pessimistic and I better shut up.
I call it being realistic, not pessimistic(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Does anyone of you also have problems with inserting quotes? it just don't work anymore
Quote from: teakwood on February 21, 2018, 06:35:24 AM
I call it being realistic, not pessimistic(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Does anyone of you also have problems with inserting quotes? it just don't work anymore
Did you refresh the page?
I had to on my Dinosaur. Worked for me. The Smileys would not work until I refreshed. ;D
There is a post that Jeff did on the highlight quote
Maybe i'm blind but i can not find jeffs quote, do you have the link?
On my way to work. This should be it.
http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=100210.0 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=100210.0)
This is in the Tech help part.
Everyone should click onto the above. Lots of info in it.
Quote from: teakwood on February 21, 2018, 06:35:24 AM
I call it being realistic, not pessimistic(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Does anyone of you also have problems with inserting quotes? it just don't work anymore
Just curious for most of you guys here how many loads a day do you do? How many week? You guys need to be realistic if you're figuring on buying a piece of equipment this isn't your first but an upgrade you're producing X amount of volume a day, I guess what I'm saying is these aren't weekend warrior toys it's a tool for making money. I might come from a different background but a small company is possible out here thinning running a single man show or even clear cuts with more then a cable skidder, I know a couple of guys that run full CTL sides by themselves produce and make a profit most of us consider a 10+ hour day normal.
Im not sure if the east coast even has enough trees to pay off every equipment loan.
Mike is there any plantations going on out there?
I think skeans is right. I'd bet there's a few guys out there thinking outside the box, and going after niches. Now for myself, having something like that to be able to cater to the need of small acreage mfl properties that no one else will do, hauling one piece of equipment to each job. [ maybe even haul it myself]. And the icing on the cake, is to source good logs for a firewood business. [ which is my biggest production bottleneck.] I'm certain right now I would drown for $175K. We'll see, I requested a quote ;D. I've seen a few of those little strokers mounted on single bunk forwarders, which may be a viable option..? A guy can always dream, can't he ???
Skeans I can't speak for the guy who started the thread but I believe a lot of guys on here are from farming backgrounds and do lots of logging part time when they aren't farming or doing another job. There are certainly guys with big equipment back east I just don't think lots of em are on this forum. I do agree with you though, cost isn't as important if you have decent jobs lined up in front of you. Reliability then becomes a much bigger part of the equation. I think I was down your way the other day. Is there a skeans Oregon near Rainier?
We are up out of Rainier, OR. Quality and production are possible but a lot of it depends on your tree per acre as well, ground conditions, what the stock looks like before hand as well.
The forwarders with the small strokers aren't something I'd think about I'd look more into a small processor head time is money. Anything to think about is how many moving parts are in a stroker as well as the wood you're trying to produce logs, pulp, and your guys firewood which is something we don't really see out here.
Skeans, I am on the cumberland plateau, which is one of the worlds appalachian hardwood growing and sawing centers for domestic and export. Theres atleast two pine plantations 10 miles south of me. Both over 2000 acres, two seperate land management companies lease them so you cant know whos is what. None of my "logger buddies" know a thing about it, and none of the mills i sell to have pine prices on their sheets. Armed with that info, If i were to hazard a guess, id say that a contract cutter puts those logs on a truck to georgia or alabama. I have no idea and have not investigated it.
There are definitely more pine plantations south of me off the mountain. This morning i read of a new georgia pacific mill so its gotta mean something.
For an appalachian one man logger in mountains of TN/KY/WV.. I dont think harvesters will replace cable skidders and chainsaws until the "big timber" is gone... A hand faller just cant limb HW pulp fast enough to make it pay, while a machine cutter cant afford to be messing up prime buttcuts that are too big for the head. You cant roll into a stave mill with pulled fibers or split butts. That $1800/mbf rate is for very very tidy hand dressed logs. I guess a harvester can lay them down then trim off a foot or two to fix any splintering but thats just a crime to waste that much wood for failure to bust out a chainsaw. An outfit that wastes fiber like that wont be around long without a sweetheart subsidy of some kind. There isnt enough prime fiber to waste.
A thing to remember is the difference in our trees. You west coast guys are in 200ft height with single stems and knots arent a big deal. We are in 80ft wood that may have a complete fork at 20ft up and knots everywhere which are tremendously penalized. So an acre of your land might put 10x the boardfoot out as an acre of eastern mountain land. If not managed, there are whole mature trees here that may have a value at the mill of as low as $10. A short, twisty bushy maple or gum for example. All that can make is pallet or firewood. But it consumed all those resources for 50 years.
Im finding its very hard to get people to manage forests. When you add in the pressure from agricultural needs and housing needs, the eastern woods is being developed into other things quite fast. There are almost no woods left where i grew up. There are yards. Extensive TSI will be a necessity on many currently rural sites or simple economics will coax them into suburban building lots.
What I like about this machine is the size and the ability to do multiple tasks. Few years back I bought a processor from multitek and seen they were a Vimek dealer. Looks like a nice forwarder for thinning but on the small side for what I want. Next step up from that is the big iron I would have to hire someone to move. This seems to be an in between. Maybe I'm missing something.
Down sides is parts availability and lack of dealer support. The head I'm not worried about, I believe we have a kesla dealer in Michigan. It's just the rest of the machine that there seems to be a very small following for.
Quote from: quilbilly on February 21, 2018, 09:18:57 AMcost isn't as important if you have decent jobs lined up in front of you. Reliability then becomes a much bigger part of the equation.
Im sorry for the continued hijack but i have to emphasize something on this while the opportunity is here.
Cost of debt service is always a factor, and markets are always subject to large change. My father brother and i all worked for smith and wesson, dads on 41 years. legislation and elections would move than company from 3000 employees to 400 to 2000 down to 1200. It was boom and bust.
I also was in the scrap industry. The china buying frenzy pushed processed #1 iron up to $500/ton and brought all sorts of new debt leverage operators into the mix. The china cutoff plumetted the market so bad that a few yards would only accept tin for free. You couldnt sell scrap processing equipment at all. This led to either wiped out capital or bankruptcy.
Oil and gas is the same way. Point is, there are no sure bets. Everything is subject to change. Be slow to bet the farm.
Quote from: mike_belben on February 21, 2018, 08:38:02 AM
Im not sure if the east coast even has enough trees to pay off every equipment loan.
Oh there are huge logging operations on the east coast, especially just south of you. Huge. 20 truck sort of operations, 5 feller buncher 20 skidder type firms. RMS alum know who they are and they just don't post on here. Just like sawing it is dangerous to be in the middle, either stay small or grow up. Lots of guys in the middle with 2 skidders, 4 trucks. Dangerous ground that is.
Anyhow, thread hijacking. The European logging thread looked at lots of options for smaller operators. Tigercat has a neat machine. It is not a graveyard in terms of equipment.
Personally I'd love to have a good CTL for doing small wood and to keep people off the ground. We will hand fell all the larger stuff and could keep 1 skidder and have 1 forwarder. Keep a crane for the really large trees.
$164K Cad. No head. You can add an arbro 400 for $38,400, or a metavic s180 for $45,600. Grapple is $2400.... I'm out ;D
you can but a nice used Timbco for that much and have plenty left over for several several moves
Nativewolf, thanks for posting about RMS. Id never heard of them and poked around. I wish theyd buy out a certain high grading land company in my area.
Quote from: mike_belben on February 21, 2018, 10:27:20 AM
Quote from: quilbilly on February 21, 2018, 09:18:57 AMcost isn't as important if you have decent jobs lined up in front of you. Reliability then becomes a much bigger part of the equation.
Im sorry for the continued hijack but i have to emphasize something on this while the opportunity is here.
Cost of debt service is always a factor, and markets are always subject to large change. My father brother and i all worked for smith and wesson, dads on 41 years. legislation and elections would move than company from 3000 employees to 400 to 2000 down to 1200. It was boom and bust.
I also was in the scrap industry. The china buying frenzy pushed processed #1 iron up to $500/ton and brought all sorts of new debt leverage operators into the mix. The china cutoff plumetted the market so bad that a few yards would only accept tin for free. You couldnt sell scrap processing equipment at all. This led to either wiped out capital or bankruptcy.
Oil and gas is the same way. Point is, there are no sure bets. Everything is subject to change. Be slow to bet the farm.
Never said cost isn't a factor, just not as big of one with decent work lined up. I don't know a logger who had to give up his equipment bc of too many jobs and too much reliability. It becomes an issue when you have a bad job with no margin and bad breakdowns.
Youre right. I cant argue with that.
Quote from: Cbown on February 21, 2018, 10:17:47 AM
What I like about this machine is the size and the ability to do multiple tasks. Few years back I bought a processor from multitek and seen they were a Vimek dealer. Looks like a nice forwarder for thinning but on the small side for what I want. Next step up from that is the big iron I would have to hire someone to move. This seems to be an in between. Maybe I'm missing something.
Down sides is parts availability and lack of dealer support. The head I'm not worried about, I believe we have a kesla dealer in Michigan. It's just the rest of the machine that there seems to be a very small following for.
My guess with the height of that machine you'd still have to hire someone to move it for you.
Machines like that are normally the easiest machines to keep going since it'll be off the shelf parts vs Deere, Cat, you pick another one.
Quote from: nativewolf on February 21, 2018, 02:20:00 PM
you can but a nice used Timbco for that much and have plenty left over for several several moves
Are you talking a combo machine or a bunchers/harvester?
Kind of along the lines of at least the high jacked subject. A guy I know called from Az the other day. He has been driving a log truck down there, but his job came to an abrupt halt so is headed back up here. Anyway, he told me the logger he was hauling for still had 6 to 800 loads decked in the woods, but the mill had not paid, so quit hauling to them. Now here is the kicker, he claimed the plan was to go haul 1200 loads that were still at the mill away and just stack it on a lot somewhere, basically repossess the logs.
It seems like to me that a logging company would have to have some pretty deep pockets to survive, buying the sale, put out the expense to cut, process and truck a couple thousand loads of logs, that the deal went south on.
(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/huh.gif) Do i understand that right? they hauled 1200 loads to a sawmill without having payment at least on the first loads??
Quote from: teakwood on February 22, 2018, 06:29:38 AM
(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/huh.gif) Do i understand that right? they hauled 1200 loads to a sawmill without having payment at least on the first loads??
I leave the yards with a check. I wait til they scale it.
My hindu buyer does the trucking, so the wood is sold at the landing. If the money isn't in my bank account the loaded truck does not leave my property!
Quote from: teakwood on February 22, 2018, 06:36:08 AM
My hindu buyer does the trucking, so the wood is sold at the landing. If the money isn't in my bank account the loaded truck does not leave my property!
That'd sure be nice but most of the time we don't get paid for 2 weeks or a month after the we drop the load off depends on the pay period.
The story I got was there was 1200 or so loads left that they hadn't been paid for, may have been more that had already went through the mill.
I guess I can see a small operation getting paid every load, but here it sure doesn't work like that, the mill has always paid every two weeks.
If I had to wait for the loads I haul to be scaled, I would have to up my rates, which are a major expense to the loggers now.
The local broker cuts checks on Friday. Deliver Wednesday morning, get a check this Friday, Wednesday afternoon, next Friday.
Quote from: Pclem on February 21, 2018, 01:46:13 PM
$164K Cad. No head. You can add an arbro 400 for $38,400, or a metavic s180 for $45,600. Grapple is $2400.... I'm out ;D
Pclem, did Awassos give any indication on the capacity of the forwarder? It looks like a 2 cord bunk (2 cord of 8 foot), but its hard to tell scale from the videos and pictures.
Quote from: mike_belben on February 21, 2018, 10:05:08 AM
Skeans, I am on the cumberland plateau, which is one of the worlds appalachian hardwood growing and sawing centers for domestic and export. Theres atleast two pine plantations 10 miles south of me. Both over 2000 acres, two seperate land management companies lease them so you cant know whos is what. None of my "logger buddies" know a thing about it, and none of the mills i sell to have pine prices on their sheets. Armed with that info, If i were to hazard a guess, id say that a contract cutter puts those logs on a truck to georgia or alabama. I have no idea and have not investigated it.
There are definitely more pine plantations south of me off the mountain. This morning i read of a new georgia pacific mill so its gotta mean something.
For an appalachian one man logger in mountains of TN/KY/WV.. I dont think harvesters will replace cable skidders and chainsaws until the "big timber" is gone... A hand faller just cant limb HW pulp fast enough to make it pay, while a machine cutter cant afford to be messing up prime buttcuts that are too big for the head. You cant roll into a stave mill with pulled fibers or split butts. That $1800/mbf rate is for very very tidy hand dressed logs. I guess a harvester can lay them down then trim off a foot or two to fix any splintering but thats just a crime to waste that much wood for failure to bust out a chainsaw. An outfit that wastes fiber like that wont be around long without a sweetheart subsidy of some kind. There isnt enough prime fiber to waste.
A thing to remember is the difference in our trees. You west coast guys are in 200ft height with single stems and knots arent a big deal. We are in 80ft wood that may have a complete fork at 20ft up and knots everywhere which are tremendously penalized. So an acre of your land might put 10x the boardfoot out as an acre of eastern mountain land. If not managed, there are whole mature trees here that may have a value at the mill of as low as $10. A short, twisty bushy maple or gum for example. All that can make is pallet or firewood. But it consumed all those resources for 50 years.
Im finding its very hard to get people to manage forests. When you add in the pressure from agricultural needs and housing needs, the eastern woods is being developed into other things quite fast. There are almost no woods left where i grew up. There are yards. Extensive TSI will be a necessity on many currently rural sites or simple economics will coax them into suburban building lots.
I think that's where you got that wrong on our big stuff a single knot over an 1" can be a huge difference in pay, fiber pull it's allowed it's all the same here and one reason the stuff has gone mechanical. Yesterday was OLC for us I heard there was two tethering machines head over to the east coast one with the 5' grapple saw the other with a hot saw for doing steep ground in the big hardwoods. The day of single man stuff is still around but the day of cable are coming fewer and fewer out here, one thing we did see was 4 different companies with camera grapple carriages so there's no guys setting chokers other then for the tong tossers.
No specs on capacity. Only thing close they say is "expandable rear frame 7'+2'". I would think 2 cords would be a fair guess. 18,4-26 tires, 17.5' reach boom.
8' wide, 21' long, 74hp
QuoteI think that's where you got that wrong on our big stuff a single knot over an 1" can be a huge difference in pay
Youll have to forgive me. My only experience with pine is charging for removal. I assumed since every 2x product i see in the store is covered in knots, and since every pine harvester vid ive seen is stripping a tree of limbs from top to bottom, that knots were neglible. I didnt realize that there are pines which are graded per side like HW.
What species are you dealing with like that? Is the whole tree sellable?
Douglas fir, yes the whole tree is sell able. When we do scale wood it's normally a roll out for the scalers typically rolled twice per load at the mill. Most of the time you don't have to take two shots with a head on a fir like a pine either, strength to weight with a Doug fir is something unreal, I can take a 5' across 200'+ tree face it up half way with only an inch of hinge and she will still hold without popping off the stump.
That little Awassos looks like it'd be a fun little fella to run 8) 8)
Noted that you are on the Cumberland Plateau. Although I live and work in SC, my family has a small stand near Morristown. Is that in your area? I have considered doing TSI, but don't know enough about the TN market. Any good info would be appreciated!
Here in SC, I run a portable sawmill along with some logging for timber salvage for local farmers. Still cleaning up the woods since Hurricane Matthew!
Morristown is about 2hrs east of me and ive only driven thru it. Little too far for me to have any specific info. I can say that most pulp from where i am goes down the mountain either to bowater in calhoun or rocktenn in stevenson alabama. Stave white oak is the best paying tree i have encountered and its not as fussy as veneer grading, 3SC can make stave. Brown foreman in stevenson is place for that. Over 16" small end is prime, was paying $1800/mbf last i went.
Pretty long haul from morristown though.
Not sure if these are brought in to the states but might be an option for someone.
Terri 34C skördare och skotare i mossgallring - YouTube (https://youtu.be/XTOhPjSBcDo)
Malwa 560C Kombi, visning (4K) - YouTube (https://youtu.be/zjllVW1UlOE)
Vimek has similar equipment through multitek wisconsin
Quote from: mike_belben on February 28, 2018, 09:32:40 PM
Morristown is about 2hrs east of me and ive only driven thru it. Little too far for me to have any specific info. I can say that most pulp from where i am goes down the mountain either to bowater in calhoun or rocktenn in stevenson alabama. Stave white oak is the best paying tree i have encountered and its not as fussy as veneer grading, 3SC can make stave. Brown foreman in stevenson is place for that. Over 16" small end is prime, was paying $1800/mbf last i went.
Pretty long haul from morristown though.
Mike.You somewhere close to the Cookville area? I have a cousin that lives there.
Yeah, 30mins east.