Is the a head out there that don't require lots of electric or computers. Seems the old fabtek heads mostly hydro hoses. I haven't been around many.
The fabtek 2000 series or 4 roller heads are complete hydraulic to run the head other then the relay box for saw and bar return. Computers for these heads were built by Joral and can be had pretty reasonable compared to others, here's a good question for you how mechanical are you? Can you read pressures and reset pressures?
I'm fairly mechanical but I do not like electrical
I have a Fabtek 4 roller. What are you looking to do?
Lotta jokes in that title id probably get banned for.
I didn't even realize I wrote professor instead of processor. Stupid spell check.
I'm not looking for anything specific. Just brands that are simple.
The only electrical is your saw proximity sensor, knife float, and encoders on the head, all your other electronics for functions will be on the valve on the boom. On ours I have 9 wires from the boom to the head, on the boom there's 5 sets of coils for the pilots. Myself the newer style heads with the Can Bus are easier and faster for diagnostics it'll give me a code and from there I know where to look.
So does the prox determine the barsaw position or just if its home or not? Do harvesters travel the saw based on a diameter measured by the knives or will it travel as far as the operator holds the button or what?
How do they manage to have the knives grab hard enough to hold a log but loose enough to shoot it back and forth by the rollers? Do they have different pressures for hold vs stroke?
Harvester design is pretty intriguing
Proximity sensor is the home sensor. To travel of the bar some will travel the diameter some will travel the full stroke of the cylinder some will do both or as long you hold the saw button. Hold pressures is determined by tree species as well as which feed wheels you're running. To running the log through you will have either a knife float or pulse of the knives, on a Fabtek it's a float to reverse you open the knives to feed back, on the new SP head I've been running it uses a pulse knife so as you feed back it opens and closes automatically.
Thanks good stuff. When we say computer, are we talking about off the shelf PLC stuck in a gear cabinet or are these proprietary full blown computers like in cars?
10 plus for a new computer. that answer your question. mine has the display a mcc module on the head and a mckc module. all valves are on the head 6 wires 2 hot 2 ground 2 can wires so all valves and length and dia run on the 2 can wires. i have very little trouble with them
I'm not sure what a Dasa Forrester costs a Joral seems like under 5.
i have a motomit that was sold to parker and was told they do not supply parts for it. then some of the motomit engineers went out on there own. i dont recall the brand name heard close to 15 k for a complete set up
Everything said is what I dont want. Haha I'll stick with a slasher or just chainsaw.
X2.
Have you ever seen the fixed head excavator grapples with a blade inside? The grapple forces the tree onto the knife and severs it. I think thats the worlds simplest feller head. Maintain it with an angle grinder.
I've never seen one in person but have looked on the internet a lot. A friend runs a Ryan's equipment saw and seems to work well but not so much of a grapple as a feller. I've watch a lot of Logger wade videos and he uses a rotobec saw and does well with it. That's more what I'd lean towards.
Quote from: mike_belben on March 07, 2018, 05:26:56 PM
X2.
Have you ever seen the fixed head excavator grapples with a blade inside? The grapple forces the tree onto the knife and severs it. I think thats the worlds simplest feller head. Maintain it with an angle grinder.
your talking about a shear. i had one 25 yrs ago. just dont try selling a log you cut with one
Yeah, i agree it wont replace your stihl. Not a bad tool for pulp and clearing though. Id love to have one.
We have two 16" morbarks. Cut a lot of logs. When we turned and bucked we cut 12" or so off the end. Hardwood in winter was fun. But cheap and doubled production for a hand cutter.
I was going to say that there is no simple harvesting head ;D I would think the least amount of electrics are on the stroke heads.
Risley Slingshot heads are pretty simple ;D :)
Quote from: snowstorm on March 07, 2018, 07:12:29 PM
Quote from: mike_belben on March 07, 2018, 05:26:56 PM
X2.
Have you ever seen the fixed head excavator grapples with a blade inside? The grapple forces the tree onto the knife and severs it. I think thats the worlds simplest feller head. Maintain it with an angle grinder.
your talking about a shear. i had one 25 yrs ago. just dont try selling a log you cut with one
Still got an old hurricana shear and a molbark makes a great flower planter anymore. The last time we ran a shear was over 30 years ago they're slow to put it nicely.
Quote from: bushmechanic on March 07, 2018, 08:46:56 PM
I was going to say that there is no simple harvesting head ;D I would think the least amount of electrics are on the stroke heads.
How is a stroker simple you still have a computer to run your lengths and measure with. A fabtek is honestly simple enough you can run it for cutting and limbing without a computer.
No computer on the Slingshot I had. A full stroke was 100" and could be adjusted a bit either way with the bump stops. Put two foot marks on the beam for longer lengths.
Quote from: Skeans1 on March 07, 2018, 09:40:58 PM
The last time we ran a shear was over 30 years ago they're slow to put it nicely.
Beats a one man crosscut or a double bit.
Quote from: Corley5 on March 07, 2018, 10:32:27 PM
No computer on the Slingshot I had. A full stroke was 100" and could be adjusted a bit either way with the bump stops. Put two foot marks on the beam for longer lengths.
Never ran the 8'6" stuff before west coast short logs is 17' or a 16 with a foot of trim, most of the strokers out here were the big mono beam ones.
But Mike will they last a 100 years and be able to hang on a wall like a misery whip?
Im only trying to make it 30 more buddy. They can melt it into iphones after that.
The Canadian who owned that delimber I've got had the boom all measured out, you peak out the window and see stripes and #'s it's actually pretty slick, no computer needed 😂 my slasher was down for a few months and I could still put 2-3 triaxle load a day up just with a stroker and topping saw.
I started out with a shear head on a Case 1187, kind of slow compared to newer stuff but BRUTAL, those triple hemlocks or pasture / ugly pines didn't stand a chance, still 10x faster than a chainsaw. Didnt want to shear anything that was real good, I used to go thru and bore cut the bigger nicer stuff, then go thru and snip off the tabs and pile them.
I know there wasn't many built and I guess they had issues but I was impressed by the "HYTEK" processor heads, feed rollers and the stroker in the ugly hardwood and hemlock seems like the way to go sometimes.
Firewoodjoe
Don't let the electrical or computer aspect of harvesting heads deter you. I also had some mechanical ability but that was it when I started doing cut to length. Although you do run into electrical issues with that type of equipment it is more than often just a broken wire or cable. Quite often it is a relatively simple fix. When it is not a simple fix I call in the experts. Although it is very expensive to call in a mechanic it is nice to be operating again.
I understand. And it's something u can only avoid so long.
I like my Fabtek 4 roller. They're hose monsters. Hydraulic leaks are easier to find than electric ones ;) ;D I really like not using it too ;D
Storing up that future collector value?
:]
Doesn't make $$$ when its not running but it doesn't cost any $$$ either ;) ;D.
How do the lifetime operating costs - maintenance cost, depreciation cost, running cost of a heavy duty delimbing and saw bunk wheel trailer (with its own engine power unit) compare to a processing head on a track base?
If the designer of the 'processing unit' has no 'upper limit weight on the end of the tracked/ wheeled units' arm/ stick' limitations - the designer can make a very heavy unit.
The industrial remote control units are getting better but they can be very expensive too if they need replacing. There are remote engine displays and cutouts so if the saw trailer engine gets too hot the operator can switch it off or it can be shutdown automatically.
CSI | IDT-3000 Whole Tree Processor (http://www.cuttingsys.com/idt_3000.php) (heavy duty delimber and two saws on trailer with own diesel engine 100hp and hydraulic system)
Cutting systems idt3000 with standalone trailer knuckleboom (would have preferred to see a tracked machine with more mobility with saw trailer)
IDT-3000 Whole Tree Processor - YouTube (https://youtu.be/98CxfFqYDqU)
(Tigercat 234 trailer mount with csi delimber and saw bunk in saw loads
234 Tigercat handling hard wood! - YouTube (https://youtu.be/7jJ1y4IZGa4)
Tiger 250 tracked with waratah 622, Tigercat 234 trailer unit (shows the TC 250 tracked can do 360 degree turns and its dangle hydraulic hose mass vs the relatively neat trailer unit)
2009 Tigercat H250B Harvester with Waratah 622 Processor at Forestry First Part 2 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/Ad6gF9i9HtQ)
Hard to know what to suggest if one does not know the type of sizes of trees/ wood the original poster is dealing with or the terrain. Probably possible to do a tree clearing job with one track base machine to fell, then use a skidder to move cut trees to processing point, swap felling attachment to a grapple on tracked machine to process and load with.
Moving cost/ transport costs to consider two machines shifts (tracked/ skidder) and a big dually for the delimber/saw trailer?
Some guys here do it with one machine they'll swap between grapple heel rack to processor heel rack. Cut, bunch, swap to grapple then shovel log, switch to head then process, and finally load as well as stack brush.
How many truckloads to the acre would a 'one track machine logging operation' average? Probably a few.
Is there any video of a PNW combi tracked machine doing the job and changeovers?
Even a moderate hour Timberpro forwarder / combi - processing head, (SP761LF) / grapple - 8 minute changeover is not a low cost operation.
6.00 - Changeover head to grapple sequence 16.38 - return to track to unload (crane self loader log truck goes past)
TimberPro TF830B Combo...it's a real life Transformer!!! - YouTube (https://youtu.be/9IaddQeo2Mc)
I'm not sure if there is not, bit change overs we're about 15 minutes and it was a lot cheaper then a Timberpro combi machine. A factory style shovel logger isn't all that expensive depending on brand.
Any used harvester with a lot of hours is going to require TLC. That's the reason the previous owner sold it. The downtime with them is the real killer.
Right. I was looking more for a head I can mount on a 20,000 pound Deere hoe. I can haul that on a gooseneck trailer and it would help in pulp wood vs hand cutting.
Ive noticed a trend of talking all about wood and iron details and never talking budget. Not meant to be a criticism, but if youre in business it had better be for a profit or you wont be in business long. And if you aim to stay in business, finances matter more than any other consideration. If you dont have the capital then youre into the capitalOne card. Debt is risk, and statistically it eventually bites back.
So whats the money look like. Whats on the horizon for jobs. How stable are these potential contracts? How many buyers are there for the product and how stable are their businesses? Is it a one horse town or are there alternative venues to sell the product that this machine will produce if current buyer goes under?
So do you want a processor or do you need a processor? Can you afford a processor now or do you hope you can continue to afford the note on a processor into the future?
Again im not criticizing. Ive lost it all, a few times. Raising kids in a camper was never the plan, and these are the questions i failed to ask myself that landed me here. Im not asking for your to publically answer these questions more than to privately ask them of yourself.
Are you losing more money by not having that iron than you will make with it? Is this a certainty or a hunch?
I understand. These are all thoughts right now and I owe nothing on the skidder. I'm just doing homework before it's due:)
:thumbsup:
Pulpwood in N. Michigan is a hard one to make dollars on. You can go broke fast hand cutting between labor and comp. costs for a man on a chainsaw. An old processor can cause a bankruptcy just about as easy as a new one :)
It was discussed before in other threads that 20+ year old processors have to sell for a lot less in the future if you wanna make some money with them. And as more are coming on the market I am pretty sure they will.
With the older stuff coming on the market make sure you always check for available parts or ways to retrofit components if something isn't available anymore.
Corley I agree it is hard to make money on pulp but it can be done and has been for years. But now guys are buying million dollar machines to cut pocket change wood. Never used to be like that. Yes comp and reliable workers is also a problem. But low grade wood is a fact of life now for northern mi. The days of cutting 24" cream is all but over. Even if u get a sale with a few hundred thousand feet of grade it comes with 1000 cord of bolts and pulp. It's a problem. The warn out equipment is also a problem. These machines for the last 20-30 years are full of operator comfort (a microwave in a forwarder really!) and better production options but they can't be patched together like the old stuff due to high parts and technical repair cost. My opinion is the old ways of hard work and oil dripping on your boots will make money and when it don't make money on a job or due to a market slump it don't matter as much because it's not costing you $17,000 a month. Like I said my opinion.
It most certainly can be done ;D Been there done that ;) ;D :) Bought groceries, toys for the kids and myself, paid as many as two employees etc. with old equipment.
Cut to length is a must here now. All DNR hardwood thinnings specify CTL at the stump with no skidding of logs over 16'. Private sales with a forester are mostly the same and there's lots of pulp on both. Getting the low grade on the ground and to the landing in the safest most efficient way possible is key. An understanding spouse with a good job with benefits is the most important.
The new Arauco plant is going to make it an interesting time in these parts 8) 8)
You might look into the Lakewood stroker heads ???
Is Lakewood still in business?
To your guys other points about older equipment I'm working on the transition between 20 year to new the payment hurts but nothing like break downs all the time. Production is a must if you have a payment but being broke down paying for something doesn't do you any good either.
A double edged sword indeed.
I sometimes feel like my area of the world is just coming out of the dark ages 😂 as far as cutting wood, seeing more mechanical iron but it's only been the last 5-10yrs. I'm willing to bet it's still 80% saws and cable skidders.
You guys out in the lake states have alot better used iron to choose from, the decent medium sized CTL stuff is rare here.
Alot of guys here don't want anything to do with the dreaded word "pulpwood", I'm trying to gear my operation to chase the low grade / firewood / pulpwood, the money is consistent and when you do get onto good wood you look at that as a bonus. 34 Ton trucked to finch is paying me roughly 750 after trucking, 2-3ld a week for something that most guys would leave in the woods makes sense to me. The insurance is going to keep putting guys out, CTL is all I see on the state jobs here now.
Barge I don't think that your in the dark ages. It's just the size of timber you still have and the ground your working. Don't get me wrong we have some rough ground and still some good size wood but really the only trees that can't be run through a single grip is the large oak. And 70% of that can be! Our size has went down drastically in the last 20-30 years. I feel it's due to the little guys going out and the big guys "saying we can't buy 400 trees" so they do a leave tree sale. Basically mark the trees to be left. We've created a pulp/bolt wood market. We sort bolts down to 7" and pulp is after that and it's generaly 50/50 in good wood. Your price is a little less then we're seeing here for pulp. Corley your in a different part of the world north of say m55. Somewhere Between m55 and m72 it start to transition to ctl only. Mid Michigan is still doing a lot of slasher work. The local big logging company just bought two new serco slashers. But I believe ctl will continue to over come. As far as workers come yes it's exspesive like $42 per $100 here but I don't think that is such a deciding factor as the labor. Reliable hardworking and steady production isn't hard to find in this generation. And the lazy cool factor of a processor is what they want.
Can I ask what's wrong with stuff being in the size range of mechanical falling and bucking? You guys don't have the steep nasty ground like out here where you'll drop something and have to stay on the stump because there's no where to go. What has always amazed me is say a Ponsse Ergo or something like that is more then a shovel with a head on it with a heel and grapples that can do everything. Has anyone played with shovel logging out your guys way?
There's nothing wrong with that but it takes that expensive equipment to keep your production up a 24" can be hand cut and still do very well every day. No one to my knowledge has shovel logged around here. I'm not too familiar with how it works but I'm guessing long skids and 100 inch wood would not work
Shovel logging is what's done out here a lot skidders aren't very common anymore, it's full tree length yarding basically you're swinging piles out towards the road. At 24" I sure wouldn't want to be hand cutting anything that small should be done with a processor one is speed the other is safety, at that size how many logs are you getting? If I'm not getting at least two export 36's one 36 domestic with some pulp it's not worth the time to fire up a saw anymore.
Yeah it's all differant here. As Corley said Ctl sales are 16' max extraction length. Good wood we get 6-10 7 footers then 3-4 100" pulp. Those 7s go down to 8" but we push to 7.
The biggest producer up here is running one slasher/chipper crew out of a total of eight crews. The rest are CTL. He just finished up an aspen clear cut job in the Pigeon with CTL. Looked like some quick easy forwarding was in order 8) I saw a slasher go by here the other day. First one I've seen in quite awhile. Some state red pine sales require tree length skidding to make replanting easier.
My processor is 1999. When I bought it five years ago I had a five year exit strategy. I lost the hydraulic pump in it last spring and haven't used it since it was fixed. Long story there. I'm tired of wrenching and "if it ain't broke fix it 'til is". I was planning to quit anyway. If I were to continue it would have to be with much newer equipment. At this point in my life I don't want the huge payment on logging equipment, along with the uncertainties of forest product markets.
24" small end is huge here.
Down time is a killer for sure. Even new equipment breaks. But yes not as much. Been around both new and old and seems everyone says used is best if it holds up and new is always worth it after there paid down. I've always looked at it as if it's old and paid for or even half the payment of new then those down times aren't as bad. And when the going's good take advantage and make up for bad times. But when the market slows or rained out or broke down the bank don't care.
With a big bank note, theres never any downtime. Rain shine hot cold Go Go Go!
If you are on your own and have been frugal with credit and mortgages, a down machine isnt terrible. What paid off old timer doesnt have atleast one downed machine right now? Is it killing them? Debt reduction/avoidance will be the best thing for a one man show where the owner still likes to fish and take the wife on vacation.
Flip side is an operator with crews to keep employed or they lose their house too.. Then yeah you better keep current iron and a good monthly budget. Cashflow management is more important than debt avoidance there.
Also depends on what you have for work like where I am I have to get X amount out a day with being down with our older harvester has killed that as well as cash flow. Here's another way to look at it with all the parts a month or say a pump goes south on that machine that 15k instant plus the time being down for say a week or more to clean the system that's how much vs the payment which would be say less then 13k? I'm not a single man show but we have a single employee so we're not much bigger then you and we can manage about 120k a day.
Yeah thats insane.
Question for you.. Have you ever calculated board foot per acre or board foot per max gvw on a load you guys can get? I suspect our board foot per acre and board foot per grade to be much lower here compared to your side.
Our last spot scale load was around 3900 on a turkey rack 25 ton load roughly.
The heck is a turkey rack?
So 50,000lbs / 3900bf = avg 12.8lbs per bf. What scale is that?
How many bf do you get off an acre?
It's an insert for a long logger to haul short wood.
Scribner Rule normally all scaling is done with a third party that does nothing but mill has no say in the scale.
And foot off the acre no idea Mike there's too many variables here we can have an area where theres short fat wood or tall no taper wood.
My goal is low overhead and simplicity. I'm young and ambitious so I'm not worried about comp on a saw hand cause I'll just do that if I do hire someone. Only time will tell.
Just thinking outside of the box but have you thought about subcontracting to get started with a harvester? Be a good way to learn the ropes as well, I know a few out here have done that sitting under towers to get started.
No I haven't thought about a sub. Not sure if anyone would. I've thought of renting to see how it pays off but that's it.
Quote from: mike_belben on March 10, 2018, 10:50:11 AM
With a big bank note, theres never any downtime. Rain shine hot cold Go Go Go!
That's not true. You set it up so your payments don't kill you. I know plenty of guys that have 300k in used processor and forwarder payments and they don't work themselves ragged. Sure they work hard but they still manage to have families, go hunting and fishing, some even have time to farm and raise beef cattle.
From my few thousand hours running an old processor i learned you are better off with a slightly newer machine and a higher payment but have 90% uptime and cut 1.5x the volume during that uptime. Also another key is maintance and keeping a close eye on problems so that they don't cause major downtime. Shutting down for an hour today may seem like a downer but it beats 2+ hours tomorrow.
Heck I'd be happy with one of those tractor processors like the Hypro mounted on the back of the iron mule. Cut the 10-12 and 16' by hand just trim the tops out and cut 100" with the processor.
Just curious how are you guys getting paid back there for hand falling hourly? Bushels? Tons?
Either production per cord/1000 or hourly/salary.
Kesla head on small excavator
Stroke Delimber Harvesting Head 20SH KESLA - YouTube (https://youtu.be/YGPVYYNgGDw)
Swedem gremo rh106 - remote control harvester - processing logs straight onto forwarder (one person operation) With a bit of artificial intelligence the rh 106 might fell a few more trees (or hand over to a off site operator) while the skidder is transporting logs to the loading area.
https://youtu.be/cig2j-Px6l0 (https://youtu.be/cig2j-Px6l0)
as the old saying goes you gotta spend money to make it....it is true. if nobody bought new we wouldnt have much of an economy now would we. and then there are taxes. i would much rather make a payment than pay it in taxes
Taxes... The reason I still have a harvester. It wouldn't have been wise to liquidate it last year ::)
Those stroke heads are just to slow. I think I could cut the large logs and trim all of it and produce a decent amount very cheap if I had a way to handle the smaller stuff. Like an inwoods slasher. I'm not looking for huge numbers 15-20 cord a day with very low over head is my goal. I'd love to do it all with one machine. I've even considered mounting a buck saw on the back of a forwarder and just slash the trees! 👍
Does it have to be done in the woods? Or can you tree length to a landing
I see that the shears are considered slow, I think hat must depend on what a guy is cutting. The reason I say that is one of the loggers I hauled for cut pulp only, and farmed out the felling to a friend that has a shear. I do not know how fast he could cut, but it took me two weeks to haul what he could drop in one day. The area they were logging I didn't have to go through any scales, so there might have been a little outlaw loads coming out of there, but I would average 70 tons a day 5 days a week, and he only cut about once every other week.
That logger retired when our pulp market went away, but even at that it was much different than your pulp market, as we hauled it in in 50 footers, down to a 3 inch top. The pulp was for a pellet mill, and they didn't want anything less than 24 foot, we have zero market ofr ctl and I don't know of a forwarder anywhere in the state, at least the interior.
The logger farmed out the felling to the shear, and shovel logged exclusively. He did have a 650 john deere with the logging package on, mainly to build the roads and landing, but did skid some house logs with it. He also had a part time hired hand that did the topping to length, but he only worked one day a week.
He was probably the most efficient logger in the immediate area, I do not know how well he actually did at the end of the day, but with his two pieces of equipment, plus the shear, and hiring me to haul, he would consistently put 68 to 70 tons a day to the mill at 50 bucks a ton. I do not know what the shear cost him, but mt pay was 1000 a day, which was a good job for me.
Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on March 10, 2018, 03:59:43 PM
Quote from: mike_belben on March 10, 2018, 10:50:11 AM
With a big bank note, theres never any downtime. Rain shine hot cold Go Go Go!
That's not true. You set it up so your payments don't kill you.
Youll have to teach me that trick someday.
I have a buddy who is a repo man, and it takes him quite a staff and fleet of equipment to track down and drive off with a lot of stuff that people apparently setup their payments wrong.
Quilbilly yes it has to be done at the stump if it is a ctl sale only.
Mike you seem to be all doom and gloom. I also have a buddy at a lending institution and it also takes lots of people at the banks to lend lots of money to the guys out there who work hard and are successful in this business.
Setup your equipment loans for 9 payments a year so during "spring breakup" you don't have to make payments. Make a large enough down payment so that your monthly payments are manageable, if you can't afford the down payment then hold off. Generally newer iron will allow you longer terms, lower interest rates, etc.
I don't have any logging equipment of my own, but do have plenty of farm equipment and growing every year. Like snowstorm said it takes money to make money. A good accountant/tax guy are imparative.
I was always told that money can be made and lost just in paper work. I hate paper work🤪
Quote from: Firewoodjoe on March 11, 2018, 08:57:56 AM
I was always told that money can be made and lost just in paper work. I hate paper work🤪
Very true. That is where paying a knowledgeable accountant and tax person is money well spent.
I could get 20 cords a day in hardwood with the Risely Slingshot I had. But it was bigger than what you've got in mind.
I just think that's not enough production to spend the money and maintain a machine. I know I could hand cut 15 cord a day in decent wood. Average 2 cord per tank in the saw. I use to run 10-15 tanks a day trimming hardwood. That's 100 cord per 8 hours for a slasher.
I'd be curious to know cost per ton/cord for you processor guys. At the end of the month. After all exspenise including machine payment and labor. I'd almost bet it less than $35 per cord.
I wrote that wrong. I bet your not making $35 per cord.
If your trying to compare operating cost etc then there is no doubt a chainsaw and an old skidder are going to have lower costs thus make more per cord.
But a 2 man processor /forwarder crew is an entirely different scale. Your comparing a 15-20 cord per day saw and skidder to a 50-100 cord per day mechanized crew. So while you may make less per cord you make up for it with volume.
You're young now. How much longer will you be able to keep up that pace and at what cost ??? There's a price to pay later for working that hard now. Pushing buttons and working joy sticks cutting trees from the safety and comfort of a cab is worth a whole bunch :) :)
True that. I know a few hand cutters that look and act like they are 80 but are only 45... hahaha
All said I understand. I will have a least a buncher within the year for safety and production. And it takes a lot of physical work out when it's in a pile. Also my dad is 60 and runs a 372 8 hrs a day 5 days a week. I also have a friend that is 66 and also runs saw felling and bucking every stick. I understand when your old u don't want to but there's a lot of guys that did and still do. All to there own I guess.
8 hours a day falling timber? You guys aren't required to quit after 6?
Ha.
Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on March 11, 2018, 08:54:10 AM
Mike you seem to be all doom and gloom.
Oh i am. youll never know the half of it.
Quote from: mike_belben on March 11, 2018, 11:27:02 PM
Ha.
Mike it's not a choice out here it's a state rule 6 hours a day is all you're allowed hand falling out here.
I cant speak for others but you can do whatever the heck you want where i live. Theres no one to stop you.
As to the cost of ctl vs conventional logging, ctl is an expensive way to cut wood. A guy that I used to custom fall for with the timbco had 3 conventional crews and 2 ctl at one time. He dropped one of the ctl crews and now I believe he has shut down the other. His forester told me a rule of thumb that the ctl costs about 10 $ a cord more to run than conventional logging. I tell you what, when you get 2 timbcos falling wood ahead of 3 or 4 748 - 848 skidders, pulling to 3 risley limmits: it would blow your mind how much wood you can pour through.
wait.... 6hrs ? what do you do for the other 8 ?
I know Gutchess pays a couple bucks more a ton for wood that's come out on forwarder, the firewood processor guys I deal with will only take 1-2ld of really muddy wood before they start calling someone else.
A good lawyer and a sharp accountant are a must the first 2yrs. Are you going to stay working a "regular job" and cut wood when you can ? I also hate the paperwork but giving the government extra money is worse. My bank had me form another LLC recently for a "holding company", you want to make sure your business liabilities and you personally are separate so you hopefully never lose your house do to a problem, they may get something but they won't get it all.
I say "dark ages" because this area is horrible for utilization, no chips, only the very best fir
wood comes out on alot of these jobs. The good stumpage is still around but you've got to hunt for it, alot of high graded jobs that where smashed quick.
A buncher is the game changer, once it's on the ground it doesn't matter how it goes out of the woods.
No we have no regs that I'm aware of. And barge this will be full time with in a few months. And to all I know ctl is a better cleaner way. It's hard to wrap my head around "spend more make less" when I can still physically do it myself. 20 years from now is a diff story. From a money stand point u save fuel and workers comp. The rest is land owner, environmental, cleanliness and physical workout which all cost more money or catches up someday anyways. around here the only guys where I see it pay off the same or better is in pine. Your pretty much limited to one stem at a time with pine no matter the equipment. At least and have it clean.
Joe I wish you the best of luck, it's such a struggle to even cut the wood sometimes never mind all the rest that comes with it.
That's why I want to cut for this mill all I do is show up with my two chainsaws and my skidder and put it in the pile. Was told averaging $50per cord.