So I have a KD250 on the way and I am trying to decide on exactly what dimensions to make my chamber. I did read the operators guide that Nyle has on their website and now it's about as clear as mud to me on what I should build.
Typically I don't produce anything over 16' long, however there is nobody around who produces 20' KD material so I figure since my mill can do it then it would be a good idea to have the capacity in the kiln to be able to do it should the market be there for longer timber, unique flooring, siding, etc. As a result I would like to have this capacity and plan on baffling it down most of the time otherwise.
A lot of what will run through the kiln will either be 1" yellow pine, rather green I fear, or 1" reclaimed hardwood, of course you really can't get any more opposite spectrum there, but that is my market. The reclaimed can run all sort of length as it comes from old beams, but I can usually sticker them into some what of an organized stack from 8' - 16' with most being in the 10' long area.
I don't see the usual charge being 4000' of hard wood, but 1,500 ft of pine is not a problem, so again with the baffling. I am going to set the chamber off the mill building the long way and use a cart system as that lets me keep everything under roof either off the saw or from the time it backs in on a flat bed until it leaves again. I plan to put a set of doors on one side as well so should the opportunity be there to air dry first and then finish in the kiln, especially for pine, then I can eliminate some labor.
Anyway I thought I would ask what others have built, what they would do differently if they did it again, etc. Any advice is greatly appreciated here.
Thanks
I'd build a reefer container, with two 18 foot long carts tied together, you could dry up to 36 feet long. Use drop down tarps as baffles, and done. This is how mine is configured.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~161.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1443753859)
Here's a lot more info, a topic "High Cube Reefer Kiln Build" on the complete construction and usage process. I have put a load through this kiln about every 7-9 days since I built it, and it works like a champ. Very simple and predictable, zero maintenance so far, other than the canvas tarps have been replaced once.
http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=82071.msg1472052#msg1472052
So the WM KD250 is a Nyle 200, a workhorse. A normal, painted Corten steel shipping container is designed to passivate (rust) so will be eaten out in a few years due to the acidic nature of the kiln vapors. A high cube reefer has a stainless interior, aluminum floor, and aluminum exterior. The insulation is still sound after years of usage, and it looks as good as it did the day I installed it. I had the container company replace the door seals when I bought it, and they are still in new condition. The extra height of the High Cube will get the capacity up, and the stacks should only be 42" wide to get proper airflow.
Also, the capacities listed in the literature are correct but don't tell the whole story. Its 1,500 of green softwood, but if the pine has been air dried, or better yet, fan dried, then it will take a full 4,000 bdft load at a time. Fan drying pine will only take a few weeks, and will eliminate sticker stain and save money running the kiln.
With an insulated container, I've never need any extra heat. My other stick built kiln, however, needs it.
Well, a box kiln it is. I found and paid for a 40' HC reefer box today, like YH said, aluminum exterior skin and floor with stainless inside. Delivered here for 11 SGU's, cheaper than I could stick build something I figure and a whole lot less time. Need to lay the pad for it so they can drop it early next week. Fed-Ex freight called and said they have my 250 ready to deliver so all the pieces will be here pretty soon.
I can get crushed clam shells cheaper than 57's or crushed concrete, but they won't have a trailer load ready for a month, so the rail road portion will have to wait a little bit, the first couple of loads won't be much fun for sure, but from reading the other post Yellow Hammer did I have plenty of work ahead of me so maybe in the end it won't make a difference.
The Wilsons Mills spur line depot is about to become a reality!!
Congratulations, you will really like this design for long wood, or any kind for that matter. If you haven't built some, I'd fabricate two pallets of skids, open bottom. 16 inch center, 42 (not 48 inch) wide. These will be used as templates for when you make the carts, to make sure they fit in the right positions, two to a rail cart.
Make sure you spend extra time getting the crossties dead flat in the gravel, which is pretty easy if you have a laser level or transit and pull strings across the tops. That way when the guy delivers the container, he just drops it in place and is done.
YH -
I am not going to run it full length at first, I have several pine orders to address, so I figured I would create a portable bulkhead wall that can be placed in to shorten the overall chamber when needed. What is the correct clearance to leave at the end and beginning of the stacks?
I do plan to shamelessly steal a bunch of your ideas from the other post.
Thanks
@YellowHammer (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) What spacing / arrangement did you use for the RR ties under the container and track? Thanks
Seems like there is about a foot or,two on either side of the stacks on the cart. It's just enough to walk abround. I cut a two foot wide strip of the the canvas tarp and attached it to the end of the fan baffle so it would drape down between the wall and the stack of wood. It makes an ok seal, but is so easy I don't want to try anything better.
I don't remember the spacing on the crossties, I'll measure them tomorrow.
Look forward to following your your progress!
The ties under the container are at 5 foot intervals, and the ties under the track are at 3 foot intervals. I didn't really worry about the exterior track part until I had the container set and perfect, because its floor is 11 inches higher than ground level, and I worked the track ties to match its floor height after install. A transit or a good laser level was invaluable, as both tracks need to sit dead level, because I didn't want to have a runaway train. Setting the ties went pretty easy, I have hard clay right under the grass, so I scraped down to it. Then a bed of washed gravel with no fines, so it won't settle, level it out, lay the ties on the surface of the gravel, leveling and fine tuning as necessary, then backfill all the gaps between them with more gravel. Just like a RR bed. When they put the container on it, in sat flat as a pancake when it landed. It still hasn't settled at all that I can detect, after these years.
If you use unwashed gravel, it will settle so needs to be compacted.
What is the R rate on the walls. And floor , ceiling.
From what I've found it's R14 for two inches, however, most of the heat in my stick built kiln is lost through the door seals, and reefers are designed for continuous sub zero operation, so the seals are double and triple lipped. Very tight.
I lose most of my heat through the Nyle vents, and duct tape them in the winter during the sterilization cycle.
I was told by the yard that sold me the container that it is rated at R20, but it's not here yet so I can't verify that. The stone and kiln unit itself arrive tomorrow. The RR ties on Wednesday so my plan is to have the bed set by this time next week at the latest so I can get them to deliver the box next week.
I didn't realize the R value is that high. Either way, it works nice.
Did you get the Nyle kiln cart wheels for riding on the angle iron tracks? They are excellent.
OK...so, now I've changed my mind on my new stick-built kiln also. Same unit, so wish to do the reefer also.
Where can I obtain one? I've looked a couple of times locally, to no avail.
THanks!
Quote from: YellowHammer on March 27, 2018, 12:53:25 AMDid you get the Nyle kiln cart wheels for riding on the angle iron tracks? They are excellent
Not yet - when I ordered the unit I was going to build a chamber, but things have changed so I do need to call and order wheels. Thanks
Quote from: PA_Walnut on March 27, 2018, 04:51:33 AM
OK...so, now I've changed my mind on my new stick-built kiln also. Same unit, so wish to do the reefer also.
Where can I obtain one? I've looked a couple of times locally, to no avail.
THanks!
The best response I got was from Container Management Group, they have a yard in Virginia Beach and I believe Philly, along with others. I tried all the CL listings, private "yard owners", etc. Got some outrageous prices from a few brokers who are really just truckers that buy a unit with your money then mark up and deliver it.
You can expect to pay around $8000 for container. Try Western Container Sales in Norfolk, or Container Alliance.
I Craigslisted some of the big cities next to shipping ports, as they have thousands of these, and talked to them. When they found me one in their inventory, (it had a bad refrigeration unit) they took it out of service, salvaged the cooling system to lower my price, and then had it shipped to their nearest distribution rail yard in their network.
I only just had to hire a local guy to fetch it at their yard and bring it the last 30 miles.
I paid 11 SGU's for mine delivered.
Nyle did not say they shipped in "discreet packaging for my privacy" ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34297/KIMG1174.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1522184786)
Some assembly required. :D
It's amazing how a few cardboard boxes of stuff can turn into a working kiln, but it does.
Well, no cardboard boxes to discreetly hide the contents, but more critical parts are now here.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34297/KIMG1181.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1522287200)
Quote from: Southside logger on March 28, 2018, 09:33:40 PMWell, no cardboard boxes to discreetly hide the contents, but more critical parts are now here.
The railroad at the bottom of my hill was replacing ties yesterday, so I tried to score some of the old ones. No deal. :-\ Foreman told me that they are sold before they even come up. "A truck follows behind us". Gonna try to find said truck today and see what I can work out.
Here's a glimpse of their ops. There's about 6-7 different machines, each with a task. Pretty cool to watch. This one was sliding the old ties out from their resting spot.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/46676/IMG_9840.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1522319394)
Has anyone looked into the Nyle container kiln? https://www.nyle.com/lumber-drying-systems/lumber-kiln-drying/container-kilns/ (https://www.nyle.com/lumber-drying-systems/lumber-kiln-drying/container-kilns/)
I did initially, because I wanted to buy a turnkey solution. They are very well built, with all aluminum innards such as baffles and framing.
Unfortunately, they had a price tag commensurate with their Cadillac construction. They also had a very long lead time. I could have handled either, one at a time, but for me, being very expensive and taking a long to get was a deal killer.
Quote from: YellowHammer on March 30, 2018, 12:13:23 AMUnfortunately, they had a price tag commensurate with their Cadillac construction. They also had a very long lead time. I could have handled either, one at a time, but for me, being very expensive and taking a long to get was a deal killer.
I looked into it also. Yellow is completely accurate in his assessment: great quality and a commensurate price tag. Seems like shortcuts aren't in the equation when building a kiln unless you cowboy-up the mucho dinero. :-\
what kind of price do they have on a 20 footer?
Prepping the bed foundation. Keeping the top soil for elsewhere, took years of wanting one, now I don't know how I ever got along without having my own excavator.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34297/KIMG1188.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1522511112)
Quote from: Southside logger on March 31, 2018, 11:46:22 AMtook years of wanting one, now I don't know how I ever got along without having my own excavator.
Tru'dat! I have a big backhoe on my tractor, but a mini-trackho is on the shortlist. Keep the pix coming.! I'm on a similar course...just had ties delivered on FRI.
Did you reference your insulated container as being $11K? Your mention as SGU, which I assume is a Single Goat Unit, but I'm not in tune with the currency conversion rate. :o ;D :D
The ties: Whoa, these things are HEAVY! I took the top bundle off the truck with my forks. I knew it was heavy and a load that high up is plenty challenging and dangerous. Backed it up off the truck and almost tipped the tractor! :o Was ready for it though--"Red alert...red alert.." Got it to the ground as fast as the hydraulics will move. (Been there done that with huge logs too).
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/46676/IMG_9852.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1522580760)
Heavy ties are good ties. Looks like you both are getting it done. One of the good things about having a washed gravel pad is there are no drainage issues. Any water that runs down to the side of the gravel pad will simply flow underneath.
Since the container isn't much wider than the crossties, it's important to get the gravel pad and crossties square and straight, so I ran corners strings from batter boards to help with the initial placement and leveling the ends to the string. You can see the batter boards in the picture. I left them up so when the container was delivered, the truck driver had targets he could see. Since the strings are long and will sag in the middle, I did the final fine tuning leveling under each crosstie with a optical transit, shovel and some gravel. Once it was all done, I just backfilled between the ties to lock it in.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~121.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1431661564)
Compact clay, shoot it, lay a bit more. Almost level.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34297/KIMG1195.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1522604488)
Southside Logger
Are your chickens having a grub and bug feast? Looks like you had to work around the busy bodies!
Yes, the chickens add a whole nother level of difficulty to the build. A layer of Geo tech fabric and the base stone goes down.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34297/KIMG1197.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1522614145)
Quote from: PA_Walnut on April 01, 2018, 07:10:10 AMDid you reference your insulated container as being $11K? Your mention as SGU, which I assume is a Single Goat Unit, but I'm not in tune with the currency conversion rate
You will have to look it up in the FF dictionary!! :D
I been working on my railroad, all of today.... (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34297/KIMG1199.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1522717784)
I been working on my railroad, since @YellowHammer (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) showed me the way...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34297/KIMG1200.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1522717915)
Looks great. 8)
The box arrived today and I began installing the kiln. @YellowHammer (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) Do you collect and measure the waste water or just let it flow? I was thinking of letting it run into the stone bed.
Let's just say my delivery driver was not the same guy who brought yours, but the 52,000 lb excavator made short work of the necessary adjustments.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34297/KIMG1206.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1522900737)
I am a slacker, by comparison. :o
Just got my load of stone delivered.
Jim & Steve,
Do you guys have a side bet on who finishes first? Really enjoying seeing the two of you go at the same time.
We're stopping our kiln work til later in the summer so it is especially nice to have kiln progress to watch.
I capture and measure my water from the kiln. Tells me what is going on with the drying.
I used a 5 gallon bucket with 1 gallon marks on the side to double check my probes for a while, but once I got a feel and eyeball for the correct flow rate, and got my probes calibrated, I just let the water go into the gravel bed. From my experience, if more than 5 gallons of water is coming out per thousand bdft per 24 hours, its too much for most wood, such as red oak, cherry, and similar. Not so for pine, poplar, other whitewood. Measuring water is a good safety measure to keep from violating the max drying rate values. Don't trust the probes until they earn it.
The calibration curves used in the 200M series are close, but not accurate enough for me, and for the wood I was drying, using the manual, the probes were measuring high in the lower values, where it matters most. No big deal, as Nyle provides several wood groups with different calibrations of probe resistance = moisture content. I took an oven dry sample where I knew the real moisture content of the wood, screwed the probes in, and started scrolling through the group options until I best matched the values. I did this for several of the species of wood I dry so I know which calibration group, matches with the wood species. I also check them against the Delmhorst.
That's a nice clean interior. Are those vents in the top of the container? I spent some time foam sealing the refrigeration head, the pass throughs and all but the floor drain vents.
Remember that the kiln is pressurized by the fans and this pressure forces air out any holes, vents and seals. Even the smallest hole will dump a lot of air and temperature.
No, not vents - at least not factory installed ones - rather they are the forklift created type. They were well repaired and did not get into the roof at all, just the interior lining. The refrigeration head is completely gone and they did a good job of welding in a replacement sheet of stainless over the whole thing, then siliconed it quite well. I have 4" worth of closed cell rigid foam, along with the spray can stuff to fill in there, 6 mill poly, and cover it with plywood and aluminum paint.
I have a few rivet holes to cover over here and there, the four floor drains landed dead smack onto the railroad ties, so I was thinking I would just seal them over as they are pretty much useless at this point.
Quote from: nativewolf on April 05, 2018, 06:26:23 AMDo you guys have a side bet on who finishes first? Really enjoying seeing the two of you go at the same time. We're stopping our kiln work til later in the summer so it is especially nice to have kiln progress to watch.
I'm sure he'll be done WAY WAY before me. I don't even have a container on order yet. >:(
It's not a race - my driving factor is the 5 charges that are all sold I have waiting to go through it already, can't run them through the moulder until then - found my bottleneck!!
Did get some help today - she didn't have her own PPE so had to borrow mine. Got the front all insulated and sealed up, have most of the fan truss ready to hang, had to order the canvas tarps as nobody around had any worth getting, the pass through conduits are in place. Should have the fans up and get onto the wiring and outside box tomorrow. Phew!!!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34297/Helping_in_the_kiln.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1522979290)
The fan truss was hung by the ceiling with care in the hope it would soon circulate warm, dry, air.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34297/KIMG1241.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1523240813)
After reading about the noise generated by the fans and how it amplifies through the roof I figured I would try a rubber damper along the top truss support and on the top of the roof, 1/2" stall matts cut to size seemed to be what I was looking for.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34297/KIMG1238.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1523241060)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34297/KIMG1237.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1523241102)
I noticed that on the other picture. It will really help. It will also help the fans last longer as it will dampen out resonance. I've had to change out two of these fans, so I recommend mounting them so as to have easy and quick uninstallation access. Typically, if a fan goes bad or starts heating up during a run, there is no time to remove it, but power needs to be easily and quickly disconnected to keep it from burning up. A little factoid, most fans have overheat protection, these supplied by Nyle do not so as to function in a hot kiln environment. So they need to be on a separate "fan" circuit and breaker to protect them and also the kiln doesn't have to be shut down to disconnect a malfunctioning fan during a run. When the fans are wired in I placed junction boxes at each fan so I could easily disconnect them one by one, if necessary.
What size breaker did you run the fans on? I recall the amp draw was pretty small on them. I am running each in its own 3/4" PVC conduit - small section of liquid tight at the very end to make it easier - using four runs of 12 THWN wire per fan. I just did not feel like pulling a ton of leads through a larger conduit.
Let me clarify that, I am assuming since the fans can run 240 / 120 then they have a neutral tap, thus the four wire, otherwise I guess it will be three. I have not taken the plastic off of them yet to even look, that should all happen tomorrow.
I don't remember the breaker size, pretty small, I'm thinking 10 or 20 amp. I ran a single home run to the breaker with a three wire 12 ga with safety ground (so four wires, and since everthing is in plastic conduit, I wanted the safety ground wire) fan main feeder line down the conduit and just broke it off into a standard junction box and short 12 inch or so long branch circuit at each fan. When I want to disconnect a fan I just undo the wire nuts at the J box at the fan. So two screws, three wire nuts, the fan is electrically disconnected. I don't have any switches or exposed electrical junctions in the kiln chamber. The fans can be wired at 220, which is how I set mine. I had three main circuits, one for the kiln, one for the fans, and one for the service lights and outlets so I could work inside when the other circuits were shut off.
Ok. So your fans are all on one circuit / switch?
The fan kits that are for the L200 come with a motor starter that has overload protection built in. The switches are rated at 3.5 amps and can draw power from a larger breaker in the panel. i believe the electrical code requires each motor have individual overload protection.
Yes, all fans are on one circuit, with no switch other than an external disconnect at the circuit breaker box.
Ok - thanks. Which side did you put the power exhaust vent on? I have read about it being on both sides of the baffle. Also - and this will sound dumb. When you baffle the ends do you baffle flat against the ends of the boards or does the end baffle drape the same way as the top baffle?
Thanks again.
The power exhaust vent goes on the kiln machine side, the the low pressure side of the baffle and the suction side of the fans. The non powered intake vent goes on the opposite corner of the box, 40 feet away, on the pressure side of the fan baffle. It's important to have the vents opening against the pressure, so they will stay closed until activated.
The end baffle just hangs down like a vertical curtain between the far end of the kiln and the end of the stack. The other baffles drape on top of the stacks. Depending of what you use, how light a fabric, you may have to hold it down with a board, to keep it from flapping.
In a DH kiln, you can put the exhaust fan on either side. However, it will work better when the fans are blowing so that the exhaust fan is on the high pressure side, but open and closing vent louvers is easier if the exhaust is on the low pressure. On the low pressure side, the exhaust will work but not as well. However, this fan does not have to do a huge job, so that is ok. In any case, if you exhaust air from the kiln, you need to have a source for fresh outside air.
If you put an exhaust fan on each side, and if your main fans reverse direction every 3 hours, you will also need to have the exhaust fan that is running on the high pressure side. So it must switch from one exhaust fan to the other when the fans reverse. Opening and closing the vents is complicated.
Note that the exhaust fan is used to exhaust heat when it gets too hot. Larger DH kilns have the compressor outside the chamber and this cuts down on the extra heat.
He end baffles hang down to the floor...the same as the top baffle, but longer.
Took this video Saturday. I assume this to be a good thing.....
Kiln Running - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs5Z1Uy-0bA&feature=em-share_video_user)
Of course, it could be that we are running mash too I suppose.... :D
Yes Sir! You got water ;D. That is a very good thing.
smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup
Meanwhile, I steered another course, and decided to do a stick-built kiln and have just gotten the slab done. :( I clearly didn't win the race. (if there ever was one) :D
It is super-insulated with mono block forms on the side and polystyrene and plastic under it, which sits on 12" of stone. Did a monolithic pour. Pic is deceiving, but it's sitting 8" above grade. Forgot to put my J-bolts in, so will have to drill and anchor the plate. >:(
Plans to start framing'er up this week.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/46676/IMG_9984.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1523958964)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/46676/IMG_9991.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1523958878)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/46676/IMG_0017.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1523959095)
PA, looks great
Sometimes its easier to surface coat and seal the slab surface before the framing. I used an epoxy garage floor mix on mine and its still holding up OK, starting to chip a little, but OK. The vapors from the kiln will make raw concrete crumble over the years, so the surface will start powdering and chipping. Also, depending on the door seal configuration, if its sealing against the concrete, the smoother the concrete surface, the better the rubber will seal against it.
Sealing the concrete surface is also useful so that when the pressure treated sill plate gets anchored to the concrete, the caulk bead between them will adhere real well.
Yellow, Thanks for the recommendation. I was considering using a real good, high-solids epoxy...then, was wavering with "oh, it's just a kiln..." Now you've convinced me as it will be SUPER easy to do right now.
Only caveat is that you are supposed to wait 30+ days for the concrete to cure. Moisture is also an enemy to epoxy, but I don't think I'll have THAT problem--spent a great deal of time with insulation and vapor barriers.
I didn't wait 30 days, more like 30 hours. Maybe that's why some of mine is chipping off. Oh well, maybe I should have read the instructions....,, ::)
I can't wait 30 days either. I think I'll give it until the weather warms up again a little (snowing yesterday, after being 85 on SAT) >:( :-\
I really like the 2-part, high-solids epoxy products available. Expensive but really work well.
As for doors/seals, I haven't quite figured how to build and operate them. Nyle has a kiln door kit that is VERY vague in description. Stan, you tuned-in? Any more info? Thanks.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/46676/nyle~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1524047077)
PA Walnut
Call me and we'll figure out what you need.
K-Guy,
How can I reach you? Which extension?
When I dial-in, I've gotten into an endless loop or voicemail.
Thx
Extension 212. I know it by heart. :D
The seal kit is pretty good, I've used it on my L53. It's a good start. The perimeter door seals are face seals and it's helpful to have them in hand when you are doing the interior door jambs to make sure they match up correctly. The floor seal is a sweep and is a big piece of rubber, and it can be a pain. The real difficulty is getting a good seal where the doors meet, at the top and bottom door and frame seals. Since it's a three way joint, where the left door, right door, bottom (or top) jamb seal, all meet, it's hard to get it just right.
Since the door frame face seals require pressure against them to close, I installed a cam locking trailer door kit, and it works the best. The inside of the door skins, where the seals hit should be very smooth, or another piece of mating foam.
Seals on big doors are challenging, since that is the pressure side, any little leak will make a difference when sterilizing.
I found the door kit to be very nice. There is some aluminum angle that the rubber seals are snapped onto. You can get inside the kiln and have someone shut the doors. You can then position the aluminum angle in just the right position such that the door fully pushes the rubber seal flat and you cannot see any light from the outside. Just make sure it is not your wife or she might lock you in and leave you there :D.
Quote from: PA_Walnut on April 19, 2018, 05:59:46 AM
K-Guy,
How can I reach you? Which extension?
When I dial-in, I've gotten into an endless loop or voicemail.
Thx
PA Walnut
Ext 212 is my direct line. Leave a message if I'm busy, I'll call you back.