Alright im new around here. So ive been doing some extensive reading on mills, im building another house (this is my 4th one sigh) but i would like to mill all my studs and rafters and a bunch of 1x for all the ceilings and a bunch of 2x random width and chink it for the siding. Im not sure if i should go bandsaw or a swingblade. Really like the looks of the petersons but they are pricey, lucas looks sweet but the adjustments on both ends seems silly and getting logs between the uprights seems like a pain if im doing longer 20' material. Wood mizers look like a good option too but dealing with the blades sounds like a lot of work. I like the sounds of sharpening a circular blade in 5 minutes myself and be back to cutting. DL timbertech 1020 sounds decent too but the info on those is minimal at best, doesnt seem like too many guys running those. Price is good on those though. Looking to stay under 20k for the mill. Checked out the Mahoe and they are sweet too but the minimax runs 30K. I live in western wyoming so it'll mainly be doug fir and probably 18''-30'' diameter mostly. Any info/guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Check you'r building codes before building with rough cut lumber,,
First Welcome to the Forestry Forum. Where in Western Wyoming, Afton area?
I visited with member @AlpineCutter (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=37115) in Colorado this past October who is basically sawing what you have. He has a new Wood-Mizer LT28 and there are several pictures in his Gallery.
Your decision will be based upon your budget and your available support equipment.
If you are willing to spend 20K you can get into a LT35HD with hydraulics for 21K. You will never regret the hydraulics. Shaun in Basin MT is not very far from you also, he is the Wood-Mizer dealer. Good thing about buying from him is in MT you do not have to pay sales tax. He is also great to work with.
Quote from: Kbeitz on March 22, 2018, 09:17:37 AM
Check you'r building codes before building with rough cut lumber,,
thats the great thing about wyoming, we are still one of the free states!
Quote from: Magicman on March 22, 2018, 09:18:45 AM
First Welcome to the Forestry Forum. Where in Western Wyoming, Afton area?
I visited with member @AlpineCutter (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=37115) in Colorado this past October who is basically sawing what you have. He has a new Wood-Mizer LT28 and there are several pictures in his Gallery.
Your decision will be based upon your budget and your available support equipment.
Ha small world, yea im 5 min north of afton. I'll check out his gallery. Im really leaning towards a swingblade just for the convenience of maintenance. The lucas is 16k and the peterson is another 10k over that. If prices were closer no doubt i would go with the peterson but that is a substantial price increase.
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 22, 2018, 10:31:32 AM
Quote from: Kbeitz on March 22, 2018, 09:17:37 AM
Check you'r building codes before building with rough cut lumber,,
thats the great thing about wyoming, we are still one of the free states!
Lucky you....
If swing blade is on your list, don't overlook Turbosawmill. They are simple to set up and offer the most ease to work around with the single beam configuration. My chainsaw powered M8 Can average 200 bd ft/hr easy in softwoods. With the extension I can cut 20' long easy and if I want to slab I Can with the Alaskan cradle that rides on the beam. I can cut timbers 8" x16" Max and single side cut 8"x8". The automated models are a bit more but for about the same price as a decked out hydraulic band mill you can have an automatic swing blade that will produce easily 500+ bd ft/hr with way less maintenance than a comperable band machine.
Quote from: Kbeitz on March 22, 2018, 10:44:55 AM
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 22, 2018, 10:31:32 AMthats the great thing about wyoming, we are still one of the free states!
Lucky you....
Not too late to change ;), but I'd hate to think how many moving trucks would be needed. :o
;D
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 22, 2018, 09:06:26 AMit'll mainly be doug fir and probably 18''-30'' diameter mostly
Many bandmills will have trouble with logs over 24". Not that you can't cut them, but you have to roll and "whittle" away the outside until you have something small enough to fit through the guides. Advertised max cutting diameter is different than width between the guides... (Dirty little secret some people don't find out until delivery. ;))
You may want to look at an EZ Boardwalk 40 or a Woodmizer widehead if you want to go with a bandmill.
Swing mills are great to. A lot of good product out there, more about connecting the dots between what will be the best fit.
If you are bringing the mill into the forest and dealing with big logs and limited equipment, it's swing mill hands down. If you can move the logs, then it moves more toward preferences.
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 22, 2018, 10:35:13 AMHa small world, yea im 5 min north of afton.
Up toward Alpine? I have hunted Big Ridge and Spring Creek and took a bull out of the Dog Creek area North of you. Also eaten square ice cream in Swan Valley. cone_1
Quote from: Magicman on March 22, 2018, 01:34:00 PM
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 22, 2018, 10:35:13 AMHa small world, yea im 5 min north of afton.
Up toward Alpine? I have hunted Big Ridge and Spring Creek and took a bull out of the Dog Creek area North of you. Also eaten square ice cream in Swan Valley. cone_1
Im just south of Thayne, between alpine and afton. Great areas, I hunt all those myself!
anybody on here have a 1020 DL timbertech swingblade? or any experience with one?
http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=100627.0 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=100627.0)
I'll suggest a dimension mill, look for a Mobile Dimension mill (128 series), probably find a used one in your budget. Otherwise look to a Mighty Mite or as you indicated a Mahoe if you can swing the $$. An earlier Mighty Mite the 412 would also be an option.
D
I've run longer stuff into a lucas either by dragging it through from the end on crane mats or using a 40' run of roller tables with a 20' long 4x12 sitting on the tables and screwing chocks down to that to support the log. Gotta keep an eye on the swing and that bunk setup, it is difficult to cut through a roller.
Are the band mills quite a bit more efficient on the smaller diameter logs? If I ran a bunch of 16'' lodgepole and cut it into 1x material would i be better off going band mill?
Personally I think so but that is coming from someone that has never had or sawn with anything other than a bandmill. ;D
Depends. My mill maxes at a 6" cut
Assuming similar HP and experience. On a 1x6 it's probably about even with a bandmill on 16" logs when edging is considered. 1x6 through 1x12, the bandmill is ahead. Larger than 1x12" I can't even do. I also can't get more than one 12" wide board per layer.
Numbers go up with a bigger swinger, but it definitely has it's perks and it's limitations.
That said, I think Magicman's LT40 super would SMOKE my mill in a competition...
Dealing with bandmill blades isn't bad. It is wise to have enough on hand to saw with while a set are being sharpened. Using a service, Woodmizer Resharp is one, is as simple as boxing the dull ones up, calling FedEx and shipping them to a Resharp facility. In a few days a box of freshly sharpened blades comes back. You can use a service many many times before you can pay for the equipment and learn to use it UNLESS you saw a lot. I prefer to be sawing than sharpening anyway.
I believe it is easier to start making usable lumber using a bandmill and especially the variety Wyoelkhunter is planning - framing, siding, paneling etc.
I sent you a message and my ph number.
I have both a swing blade and Band mill Call if you like.
I don't live to far from you Dillon MT
Scott
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 24, 2018, 11:20:28 AM
Are the band mills quite a bit more efficient on the smaller diameter logs? If I ran a bunch of 16'' lodgepole and cut it into 1x material would i be better off going band mill?
A swing blade will do 16" logs at a decent rate, but it's not really their strong point. I wouldn't take MM on in a sawing race. But then I have a ~$10k sawmill. Not sure on the cost of MM's, but I would think over $50k, in this part of the world at least.
Now a manual band mill in the same price range? Yeah I'd be up for a contest there.
Although the Sawmill Shootout isn't a real world scenario, it's interesting to note that a Lucas 6-18 outperformed a Woodmizer LX450 + Edger. And that was on medium sized logs. Only Superman could keep up that sort of production all day, but that's basically true for either mill.
The Lucas can also handle oversize logs, logs in inaccessible places, difficult to saw woods. These things are their strong points.
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 24, 2018, 11:20:28 AM
Are the band mills quite a bit more efficient on the smaller diameter logs? If I ran a bunch of 16'' lodgepole and cut it into 1x material would i be better off going band mill?
Yes. If you had one or the other already you would make do and not too badly either and you'd be sawing not thinking about it. But you wouldn't prefer to saw 1" material with a swing mill having 1/4" kerf, especially from logs 16" and smaller, if you had the choice. Being set up at home and having good log handling equipment to some degree would tip the scales back a little towards the swing mill.
I have both mills and am 100% portable. The band mill has the edge on quick setup and hydraulics takes most of the work out of handling the logs. Swing mills are touted as being portable and yes, they are, but so is a band mill when it's hooked up to your truck.
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on March 24, 2018, 05:07:02 PM
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 24, 2018, 11:20:28 AM
Are the band mills quite a bit more efficient on the smaller diameter logs? If I ran a bunch of 16'' lodgepole and cut it into 1x material would i be better off going band mill?
Yes. If you had one or the other already you would make do and not too badly either and you'd be sawing not thinking about it. But you wouldn't prefer to saw 1" material with a swing mill having 1/4" kerf, especially from logs 16" and smaller, if you had the choice. Being set up at home and having good log handling equipment to some degree would tip the scales back a little towards the swing mill.
I have both mills and am 100% portable. The band mill has the edge on quick setup and hydraulics takes most of the work out of handling the logs. Swing mills are touted as being portable and yes, they are, but so is a band mill when it's hooked up to your truck.
Which mill would you choose between the woodmizer lt35 manual and a Peterson WPF 10''? I will have equipment to move logs
Quote from: Mt406 on March 24, 2018, 03:57:44 PM
I sent you a message and my ph number.
I have both a swing blade and Band mill Call if you like.
I don't live to far from you Dillon MT
Scott
Great! I'll give you a call!
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 24, 2018, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on March 24, 2018, 05:07:02 PM
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 24, 2018, 11:20:28 AM
Are the band mills quite a bit more efficient on the smaller diameter logs? If I ran a bunch of 16'' lodgepole and cut it into 1x material would i be better off going band mill?
Yes. If you had one or the other already you would make do and not too badly either and you'd be sawing not thinking about it. But you wouldn't prefer to saw 1" material with a swing mill having 1/4" kerf, especially from logs 16" and smaller, if you had the choice. Being set up at home and having good log handling equipment to some degree would tip the scales back a little towards the swing mill.
I have both mills and am 100% portable. The band mill has the edge on quick setup and hydraulics takes most of the work out of handling the logs. Swing mills are touted as being portable and yes, they are, but so is a band mill when it's hooked up to your truck.
Which mill would you choose between the woodmizer lt35 manual and a Peterson WPF 10''? I will have equipment to move logs
Peterson, It will do all you want for your build, it breaks down for storage/transport quite well and it will do the occasional big ones without issue
D
Frankly, I'd pick option C. At half the price of either, an EZ Boardwalk 40 with extension to do your 20' logs and plenty of width. After some experience, if you want to upgrade, you'll get most of your $ back in resale.
I've just seen too many high $$ mills being sold with under 100 hours. Guy in another thread just picked up a one year old LT50 (or 70???) with a diesel and lots of extras for $10k under the current base model with gas engine...
In any case, I wouldn't put any $ down until you take Mt406 up on his offer. Brochures are nice, youtube is better, but there is no substitute to getting your hands on equipment to see what you like and don't like.
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 24, 2018, 05:14:24 PMWhich mill would you choose between the woodmizer lt35 manual and a Peterson WPF 10''? I will have equipment to move logs
The Peterson of those 2 in pretty much every scenario. Heck I'd keep my 6" cut swingblade vs a manual band saw.
A cheaper manual bandmill (EZ Boardwalk etc) has it's place, because it's cheaper, and it works. (but so do you)
An expensive automated band mill has it's place, because it's high production without as much manual labour. But that's a big investment.
Certainly take Mt406 up on the offer to go and see his mills running. Then you can get a better idea of how they will fit into your needs. The Swing blades are very simple to operate, and you can get sawing with minimal experience. Blade maintenance is simple etc. But there is a different "thought process" to the sawing. I can see how someone used to a band mill might take a bit of time to get their head around the different sawing process.
Quote from: TKehl on March 24, 2018, 06:13:11 PM
Frankly, I'd pick option C. At half the price of either, an EZ Boardwalk 40 with extension to do your 20' logs and plenty of width. After some experience, if you want to upgrade, you'll get most of your $ back in resale.
I've just seen too many high $$ mills being sold with under 100 hours. Guy in another thread just picked up a one year old LT50 (or 70???) with a diesel and lots of extras for $10k under the current base model with gas engine...
In any case, I wouldn't put any $ down until you take Mt406 up on his offer. Brochures are nice, youtube is better, but there is no substitute to getting your hands on equipment to see what you like and don't like.
Thank you i haven't seen that brand i'll check them out!
SaveSave
Quote from: Ianab on March 24, 2018, 06:49:03 PM
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 24, 2018, 05:14:24 PMWhich mill would you choose between the woodmizer lt35 manual and a Peterson WPF 10''? I will have equipment to move logs
The Peterson of those 2 in pretty much every scenario. Heck I'd keep my 6" cut swingblade vs a manual band saw.
A cheaper manual bandmill (EZ Boardwalk etc) has it's place, because it's cheaper, and it works. (but so do you)
An expensive automated band mill has it's place, because it's high production without as much manual labour. But that's a big investment.
Certainly take Mt406 up on the offer to go and see his mills running. Then you can get a better idea of how they will fit into your needs. The Swing blades are very simple to operate, and you can get sawing with minimal experience. Blade maintenance is simple etc. But there is a different "thought process" to the sawing. I can see how someone used to a band mill might take a bit of time to get their head around the different sawing process.
Which would you choose between a peterson and a lucas? I can get a lucas 10-30 for about 8k less that a peterson WPF 10''. Is the peterson that much better?
Quote from: TKehl on March 24, 2018, 02:44:57 PM
Depends. My mill maxes at a 6" cut
Assuming similar HP and experience. On a 1x6 it's probably about even with a bandmill on 16" logs when edging is considered. 1x6 through 1x12, the bandmill is ahead. Larger than 1x12" I can't even do. I also can't get more than one 12" wide board per layer.
Numbers go up with a bigger swinger, but it definitely has it's perks and it's limitations.
That said, I think Magicman's LT40 super would SMOKE my mill in a competition...
We've put a "swingset" at the end of the lucas with a winch and hook and can swing the powerhead around in under 30 seconds producing a 1x12 + up to 1x6's, depending on open face width, with every drop.
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 24, 2018, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on March 24, 2018, 05:07:02 PM
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 24, 2018, 11:20:28 AM
Are the band mills quite a bit more efficient on the smaller diameter logs? If I ran a bunch of 16'' lodgepole and cut it into 1x material would i be better off going band mill?
Yes. If you had one or the other already you would make do and not too badly either and you'd be sawing not thinking about it. But you wouldn't prefer to saw 1" material with a swing mill having 1/4" kerf, especially from logs 16" and smaller, if you had the choice. Being set up at home and having good log handling equipment to some degree would tip the scales back a little towards the swing mill.
I have both mills and am 100% portable. The band mill has the edge on quick setup and hydraulics takes most of the work out of handling the logs. Swing mills are touted as being portable and yes, they are, but so is a band mill when it's hooked up to your truck.
Which mill would you choose between the woodmizer lt35 manual and a Peterson WPF 10''? I will have equipment to move logs
I don't know how to answer that question. I'd rather swing the mill head than turn big logs by hand. Both are a manual workout and make me tired just thinking about it-you should post your age in your profile. If I just needed to saw out a house, didn't have a mill, and had the money for a 10" WPF I'd also be thinking about a used hydraulic band mill which would be about the same price as the WPF. Also I wouldn't be worrying about blades or going from one end to the other as on a Lucas. Not that big a deal you'd get your house sawn out on either one. For the long haul don't get a manual band mill if you're going to do a lot of sawing of heavy logs. A swing mill would have an advantage if you wanted to saw a lot of long beams out of 24-30" diameter logs and can handle both long heavy logs and beams. You'd like it for 2x and beams but not enjoy cranking out mountains of 1" with it. If it is really just for a house then just make sure what you get will saw the boards you need, you should have a lot of fun doing it no matter what mill you buy (well maybe not a chainsaw mill).
Thanks for all the info and advice, so i am 33 years old and this mill will pretty much be for the house project and then some random projects here and there but i am not planning on sawing for a living or for profit this will just be for my own personal stuff. I also have a barn on the property that i just bought thats needs some fixing up with some reinforcing and that type of stuff. I would really like to keep it around the 15K mark but could go as much as 20K on the mill. I do have a couple dozen doug fir in the 20-30'' range but anything more than that i will have to have to buy from our local logging company so i don't want to dump too much into the mill. As many timbers and rafters and 2x material i plan on cutting i get the feeling the swing blade will be the way to go and i'll have to suffer through all the 1x material as i plan on milling quite a bit of 1x as well.
Fords, Chevrolets, and Dodges; everyone has thier favorite. So, I thought I would give my opinion too, just from a different angle. I considered band mills, chainsaw mills, swing mills, old 100 year old fricks, and about everything down to a handsaw. They are all have thier postitives and negatives. I ended up with a LT50 woodmizer bandmill. I am happy with my choice.
My decision was based on the fact that I wanted to start a portable sawmill business in my area. That pretty much eliminated most of the other options because of the trouble to move the mill would outweigh the benefits of the business. Unless I am missing something, it looks to me like you cannot cut very wide boards with a swing mill since you are limited to less than half the width of the blade. So, my advice to you is to think bigger than just your home. Are you wanting to sell it as soon as your home is built? Then, I would go something less in cost, but also something that would be easily sold. Or, if you want to do sawing for a income after your home is built, I would invest more money in the mill, and probally go with a bandmill. Someone mentioned a LT35 hydraulic. I agree, that would be a great mill for someone in your situation. WM resale is extremely high, so once you figure in the cost of the lumber you are going to save, you would likely not loose any money if you decided to sell it. Good adivce on checking with your local building codes on rough sawn lumber. Where I live, it is permissable, as long as you harvest it off your on land. Not sure why that matters.
One more thing to consider that is rarely mentioned. If you watch You Tube, and pay attention to these home made mills, most have the tracks right on the ground. At 8 AM in the morning, that is fine. By 5 pm in the evening after a day of sawing, you will hate it. Having the log on a mill bed waist high or so is harder to load the logs (unless you have a self loading mill), but much, much easier to saw. You are going to have slabs that you must handle as well as the lumber, and the slabs can get really heavy. Your back will thank you for a mill with a higher bed. Unless you have some really big logs, a swingblade is going to work your back pretty hard because you will be bending over every time a board is cut.
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 24, 2018, 07:09:18 PMWhich would you choose between a peterson and a lucas? I can get a lucas 10-30 for about 8k less that a peterson WPF 10''. Is the peterson that much better?
The WPF is a better mill, but if it's worth the difference in cost is a more complicated question.
There is also the cheaper Peterson WPF that is a more similar design to the Lucas.
Thing is, there is no 100% wrong answer. You can pretty much do the task with any "real" sawmill. Some will be quicker, some easier, some cheaper etc. People talk about the width of boards, but apart from the "wide board club", most buildings use dimensioned timber. I think the biggest board in my wooden house is a 2x6. And you can still make a few over size beams or slabs with the basic swing mill.
This is the swingset we've been using to spin the powerhead on the lucas. We were making 12" barn siding here. It can make dimensional lumber up to 2x12 and beams up to 6x12 just as easily.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/swingset.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1516067729)
We were doing a bunch of smaller logs this past week so simply cribbed the bunks up higher to avoid so much bending over.
Another jig, when we needed to straightline the dried dimensional for flooring we aligned and screwed a 4x12 timber on the bunks with a "fence" screwed to one edge. I would set the board against the fence and rip the opposite edge, then flip, move in and straightline the other edge.
When making 12 in wide, 1 or 2 x's, on a swing blade set up, how many passes does it take per board? Do you trim it down to get your 12in cant, then make a pass on each side or how does it work for the wider boards?
Not sure if you guys are aware of our new M12 recently released 12" standard cuts, 24" double cuts.
https://youtu.be/HXaRpks-vUU (https://youtu.be/HXaRpks-vUU)
Keep an eye out for the Radial Master too. Releasing it at the NZ Fieldays.
Quote from: starmac on March 25, 2018, 01:46:19 AM
When making 12 in wide, 1 or 2 x's, on a swing blade set up, how many passes does it take per board? Do you trim it down to get your 12in cant, then make a pass on each side or how does it work for the wider boards?
On that log we started by centering the log in between the frame rails then taking a 6" wide board off horizontally in the first passes. The next board was around 9" wide. I made a horizontal pass deep enough to establish an edge all the way down the log, flipped up vertical and removed the edging. Swing horizontal and make a 6" deep cut in two 3" deep passes and roll the carriage out onto the extensions under the swingset. We've made marks on the powerhead where the center of gravity is, throttle down to stop the blade and lock the motor at CG, clip in the winch cable and lift the powerhead carriage clear of the rails. Walk around spinning the carriage and set it back down heading the other direction. Take a horizontal cut from the opposite side and vertical cut to remove the edging. Swing horizontal and make a pass or two until the cut meets the initial horizontal cut from the opposite side and remove the board.
Then drop the rails anywhere from 1 to up to 6" depending on the thickness desired and repeat the process. With 2 of us working the spin really takes more like 15 seconds, I've not timed it. We have a routine. While I am throttling down and centering up my partner on the tail side is clipping in. By then I have the winch control and lift. As we walk around we each end up in our stations again, I lower, he guides down onto the rail, I unclip and we are off to the races again. For a 12" on a wider log he makes a mark on the log 12" from my initial edging cut that I align to.
On a larger log I might take a 1x4 or 1x6, then a 12" wide, then another 1x4 or 1x6 to keep the main plank centered. We have also taken vertical 1x6's off each side to leave a 6x12" wide cant projecting 6" above the log, then crank back up removing 12" boards in 1 or 2" drops.
The point I'm making is the mill is not limited to a 6" wide board it is limited to double that width with relative ease. In typical construction I never need wider than a 2x12 so this mill will handle that easily.
My circle mill can indeed walk circles around a swingmill or a bandmill for that matter but this moves easily to the site and is quite capable. The shoulder doc cleared me for work 2 days ago, I've turned small logs on the circle mill but am still months from being able to really honk on anything. I did some walnut on it last Saturday laying off 12" and up to 17" boards in single rapid passes, and I paid all day Sunday from turning. I've forgotten to tell the doc I've been able to work the saw end of the swingmill since Christmas because we aren't turning the log. The swingmill is not high production but is considerably easier on the body. Can it build a house? We are wrapping up a ~50x80 double crib 2 story log barn that was mostly milled with the little swingmill. The 60' 12x12's and larger stuff was done with an Alaskan, some of the boards and planks were done on my circle mill but in reality we could have done it all on the lucas. Heck the last guys did it with an axe, any of these will do the job.
I will be able to talk at length tonight after 6.
I saw full time so if you want to come up and help for part of a day I have some big logs I need to make into 1 in siding for my own place. You can see both a swing blade and Band mill On the same materal.
Scott
Thanks Don P. It is probably easier to do it than it is to describe it. Hope your shoulder gets better. I know I pushed mine a number of years back and it never got 100%. The doc claimed it was from pushing it, which may be right or not.
Quote from: Don P on March 24, 2018, 11:12:35 PM
This is the swingset we've been using to spin the powerhead on the lucas. We were making 12" barn siding here. It can make dimensional lumber up to 2x12 and beams up to 6x12 just as easily.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/swingset.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1516067729)
We were doing a bunch of smaller logs this past week so simply cribbed the bunks up higher to avoid so much bending over.
Another jig, when we needed to straightline the dried dimensional for flooring we aligned and screwed a 4x12 timber on the bunks with a "fence" screwed to one edge. I would set the board against the fence and rip the opposite edge, then flip, move in and straightline the other edge.
How far apart can the uprights be positioned on the Lucas? If i need to cut full 20' material can i get that between the uprights?
SaveSave
Quote from: NZJake on March 25, 2018, 06:30:30 AM
Not sure if you guys are aware of our new M12 recently released 12" standard cuts, 24" double cuts.
https://youtu.be/HXaRpks-vUU (https://youtu.be/HXaRpks-vUU)
Keep an eye out for the Radial Master too. Releasing it at the NZ Fieldays.
Sent you a PM jake. Your mills look sweet but quite a bit pricier than the DL timber tech or Lucas.
Quote from: Ianab on March 24, 2018, 10:33:05 PM
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 24, 2018, 07:09:18 PMWhich would you choose between a peterson and a lucas? I can get a lucas 10-30 for about 8k less that a peterson WPF 10''. Is the peterson that much better?
The WPF is a better mill, but if it's worth the difference in cost is a more complicated question.
There is also the cheaper Peterson WPF that is a more similar design to the Lucas.
Thing is, there is no 100% wrong answer. You can pretty much do the task with any "real" sawmill. Some will be quicker, some easier, some cheaper etc. People talk about the width of boards, but apart from the "wide board club", most buildings use dimensioned timber. I think the biggest board in my wooden house is a 2x6. And you can still make a few over size beams or slabs with the basic swing mill.
So i checked on a price of a Peterson ATS and they are still pricier than the Lucas by about 4k but they do have both of the rail adjustments on the operator end of the mill which makes way more sense to me when adjusting the height. I do not need a ton of wide material i will be doing a lot 2x6 and 2x4 material for studs and then a bunch of 8x8s and 6x6s and a bunch of 2x10 rafters and a couple 10x20'' beams. The 1x will be random width for the ceiling of whatever widths i can get up to the max cutting capabilities of the saw but i don't want any 1x over 10'' its just too unstable. So even if i got a band mill i wouldn't use any of the super wide material so i don't see the width capabilities of the band mill being an advantage for me.
I could saw all that with my 6" swing blade. The 2x10s would need double cutting, but that's fairly simple. You only get one double cut per layer, but you need 2x4 and 2x6 anyway, so it's not a problem. The big beam you do by basically sawing off everything that's NOT a beam. Saw the first face and 6" down each side. Then flip the log over, realign it, and repeat. Bit of messing about, but if it's only a handful of beams that size you could do it.
So a smaller (cheaper) mill might be an option?
Quote from: Ianab on March 25, 2018, 08:52:05 PM
I could saw all that with my 6" swing blade. The 2x10s would need double cutting, but that's fairly simple. You only get one double cut per layer, but you need 2x4 and 2x6 anyway, so it's not a problem. The big beam you do by basically sawing off everything that's NOT a beam. Saw the first face and 6" down each side. Then flip the log over, realign it, and repeat. Bit of messing about, but if it's only a handful of beams that size you could do it.
So a smaller (cheaper) mill might be an option?
Yea a smaller mill could be an option i guess. It just comes down to if the time to do the double cutting is more or less important to me than the extra money on a larger mill.
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 25, 2018, 06:17:20 PM
How far apart can the uprights be positioned on the Lucas? If i need to cut full 20' material can i get that between the uprights?
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I'll have to measure but no you cannot get 20'ers in through the uprights, we've brought long stock in from the end either by dragging or on a long track of roller tables.
This is the slippery bark method. Roll the log onto something that gets it over the bottom crossbar and drag it in. We had dug the crossbars down below grade a little bit to help avoid snagging them. We were only skimming opposite faces on smaller logs here so set up the bunks on one side and drug in on the other then reached over the rails with equipment and lifted the log onto the bunks.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/barkedlog2~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1522028392)
This is a 40' run of roller tables with a timber and small bunks on the timber. Roll the timber out beyond the mill and load then roll in and saw. I've picked up roller tables at auctions whenever possible, very handy around the mill and on construction sites.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/lucasrafter~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1522028788)
Don, that last picture is worth several SGU! Been trying to figure out how to get long ones in my frame efficiently for a while! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!
8) 8) 8)
Wyoelkhunter, only other thing I can add is an observation that entry level mills tend to sell quick and near list price. As you move up the ladder there are fewer people in the "pool" of buyers. As such resale is still good, but it takes longer and/or the discount over new on a percentage basis seems to get higher.
YMMV, as I'm only speaking statistically.
Quote from: Don P on March 25, 2018, 09:50:47 PM
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 25, 2018, 06:17:20 PM
How far apart can the uprights be positioned on the Lucas? If i need to cut full 20' material can i get that between the uprights?
SaveSave
I'll have to measure but no you cannot get 20'ers in through the uprights, we've brought long stock in from the end either by dragging or on a long track of roller tables.
This is the slippery bark method. Roll the log onto something that gets it over the bottom crossbar and drag it in. We had dug the crossbars down below grade a little bit to help avoid snagging them. We were only skimming opposite faces on smaller logs here so set up the bunks on one side and drug in on the other then reached over the rails with equipment and lifted the log onto the bunks.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/barkedlog2~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1522028392)
This is a 40' run of roller tables with a timber and small bunks on the timber. Roll the timber out beyond the mill and load then roll in and saw. I've picked up roller tables at auctions whenever possible, very handy around the mill and on construction sites.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/lucasrafter~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1522028788)
woah thats quite the set up, i guess i never thought of pulling them in from the end on some rollers. makes sense, so will the lucas mill a full 20' timber without the extensions?
Quote from: TKehl on March 26, 2018, 07:48:35 AM
Don, that last picture is worth several SGU! Been trying to figure out how to get long ones in my frame efficiently for a while! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!
8) 8) 8)
Wyoelkhunter, only other thing I can add is an observation that entry level mills tend to sell quick and near list price. As you move up the ladder there are fewer people in the "pool" of buyers. As such resale is still good, but it takes longer and/or the discount over new on a percentage basis seems to get higher.
YMMV, as I'm only speaking statistically.
Thanks for the info thats good info, if i was planning on milling for money i would be looking in a whole different catagory but i got to keep it cheap for the house build for my first mill. To know that i should be able to get most of my money back out if i need to is reassuring. If i had the money i would step up into a nice hydraulic band mill but i think i gotta keep it manual so it makes more sense for me to keep the log stationary and go will a swing blade.
will the lucas mill a full 20' timber without the extensions?
Never tried, but no, there wouldn't be enough room to swing. Get the extensions if you go with a swinger. When we set up the swingset its over the extensions at one end outboard of the uprights. It ended up at the far end in the roller table setup later on when we switched gears, centered up, and started sawing bigger stuff. We also sawed some 30' material on the roller table setup doing a little careful climb cutting, chainsaw waste removal and then rolling in further. Wouldn't want to do much but outsmarted those few logs. We were avoiding the Alaskan but didn't do enough to really get a sense of whether it was faster. When setting up the track we did take the time to carefully level the rollers side to side and stringlined the length then secured them down to the line of bunks under them. It did work pretty slick.
Do take Mt406 up on his offer to ride along on his mills, that is a great opportunity.
I got a pic of the end of the rail, the upright and the powerhead today. The rail overall is 19' 3-1/2". I'm not all the way out in this setup but if you look at the rail holder on the upright it projects beyond the post about 6" so the uprights could be spaced around 18' apart. But, look at the powerhead, in order to swing and just have moving room the log needs to be to the right of the carriage in this shot, same at the other end. That's why I'm saying get the extensions, you won't regret it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/lucasrail.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1522204318)
The black steel is what we fabbed for lifting and spinning. One thing we found out is you need to remove a little metal from the slabbing bar mount or at least think about that area where our angle iron vertical bolts to the roller bolt, that is where the slabbing bar mounts as well, check your clearances before you get out in the field and try to swap from sawing to slabbing in front of a client and it doesn't fit, Doh!
I see on the Lucas web page you can order a mill with 8m (24ft) rails. But this of course makes it a little less portable than the removable extensions. But like Don is saying, you need the rails long enough for the blade to completely clear the log at each end.
If you are going really long, the Peterson WPF system with the rails on ground is easier to extend.
Wyoelkhunter, you can also contact Mike at Turbosawmill USA and see if he could hook you up with a used mill. There are some around and price would be easier to swallow. When looking at all features, I am convinced( hence the reason I went with a turbosawmill) that the single beam has many many advantages. If it hadn't gone turbosawmill is have gone with a Peterson. Turbosawmill's hobby mill similar to the Peterson Jr mill would do all you need of what you speak. Doublecutting on a Turbosaw is very quick, having not done it on a Peterson I can't speak to its relative ease, but have to imagine it isn't s whole lot different.
Quote from: mad murdock on March 28, 2018, 01:15:34 AMDoublecutting on a Turbosaw is very quick, having not done it on a Peterson I can't speak to its relative ease, but have to imagine it isn't s whole lot different.
Yup, both do it pretty easily.
Quote from: Don P on March 27, 2018, 10:41:11 PM
I got a pic of the end of the rail, the upright and the powerhead today. The rail overall is 19' 3-1/2". I'm not all the way out in this setup but if you look at the rail holder on the upright it projects beyond the post about 6" so the uprights could be spaced around 18' apart. But, look at the powerhead, in order to swing and just have moving room the log needs to be to the right of the carriage in this shot, same at the other end. That's why I'm saying get the extensions, you won't regret it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/lucasrail.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1522204318)
The black steel is what we fabbed for lifting and spinning. One thing we found out is you need to remove a little metal from the slabbing bar mount or at least think about that area where our angle iron vertical bolts to the roller bolt, that is where the slabbing bar mounts as well, check your clearances before you get out in the field and try to swap from sawing to slabbing in front of a client and it doesn't fit, Doh!
thank you for that info that answers some questions for me, so if i wanna roll 20' logs in underneath the rail thats gonna be a no go? whats the maximum distance you can get those uprights apart? It looks like most of the lucas mills come with the extensions allowing a cutting length of 20' but if i cant get that between the rails it wont do me any good unless of come in from the end like another member suggested. really like the weight and price of the lucas 6-18 but i dont know how big of a pain its gonna be to double cut a bunch with it.
Quote from: Ianab on March 27, 2018, 11:14:16 PM
I see on the Lucas web page you can order a mill with 8m (24ft) rails. But this of course makes it a little less portable than the removable extensions. But like Don is saying, you need the rails long enough for the blade to completely clear the log at each end.
If you are going really long, the Peterson WPF system with the rails on ground is easier to extend.
i asked about the 24' rails and they wont ship those anymore :'( dang that would have been perfect!
Quote from: mad murdock on March 28, 2018, 01:15:34 AM
Wyoelkhunter, you can also contact Mike at Turbosawmill USA and see if he could hook you up with a used mill. There are some around and price would be easier to swallow. When looking at all features, I am convinced( hence the reason I went with a turbosawmill) that the single beam has many many advantages. If it hadn't gone turbosawmill is have gone with a Peterson. Turbosawmill's hobby mill similar to the Peterson Jr mill would do all you need of what you speak. Doublecutting on a Turbosaw is very quick, having not done it on a Peterson I can't speak to its relative ease, but have to imagine it isn't s whole lot different.
I emailed him, ive also been talking to jake about the turbo mills, they do seem nice but they are a little pricey. they are pretty backed up on production and they wont have any ready to roll from new zealand till the 20th of May so by the time i get it we could be into the end of june or later. Also they seem a little slow from the videos, whats been your experience with them?
Here's a video showing production milling with the M8-Auto. This may give some since of speed.
The video you were probably watching was the M12 which does cut a little slower in full depth 12".
https://youtu.be/2cFcw8YIgWM (https://youtu.be/2cFcw8YIgWM)
that looks a little better! do you feel like they are under powered?
No not at all. We are very happy with the 13hp units too in the smaller manual format.
I don't think a bigger motor will add to your daily production over the GX690. I feel it's more in the mills design that any gains can be made like loading logs and removing timber easier. Also single end sizing, (weight of push the mill if it's a manual) are all very important elements.
Quote from: Wyoelkhunter on March 28, 2018, 02:30:29 PM
that looks a little better! do you feel like they are under powered?
To your question about speed and power, my M8 (started with it as an M6 and upgraded the mill with parts proc idee by Jake), Can average 150-250 bd ft an hour in most softwoods of course individual log dynamics will have a lot t do with production as well, and in hardwoods like oak, 75-125 bd ft/hr is what I am seeing with a chainsaw powered version. The automated mills drastically in frase milling speed and efficiency. If you. An get along with a manual mill now, with the Turbosaw, an automatic upgrade is a bolt on affair and can be done easily whenever you are ready to make the jump. I opt for ultimate portability. Which is why I we t with the chainsaw powered unit. It is an awesome machine with plenty of power, and the blade technology that they have incorporated is pretty darned amazing as well. My 395XP husky has all the power i need to do what i have with my mill. I have over 40 mbf milled in the last 12 mo. And that is part time as well.