For the first time been sawing red pine, saws really nice compared to ewp. No dips or dives at knots, no pitch like eww. But I've heard it's not good good framing or building material and he's planning to build a barn with it. Anyone know? Sawn about 6000 bdft so far.
Russel
I can't imagine why it wouldn't be a good framing wood. It does have sap though. My house poured it from the knots for many years. My log home in MO is made from all red pine from Minnesota.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/36921/DC58A3B6-0201-4482-8D43-092D0198EE8F.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1540295459)
Thanks Firefighter, if it's just sappy pitch he should be ok for an equipment barn. I was curious as I was told it would split every time a nail was put into it. Didn't make sense to me but... opinions come from many directions.
Russel
It does split easier than white pine, tends to twist more as it dries. It's in the same strength range as ewp but tends to grade a little higher, it is stiffer and harder. Well it's our only western member of the hard pines.
Red pine, always planted around here, is a soft hard pine. To me it is nice to work with and not near as hard as yellow. Like yellow it will blue stain much worse than white. I would love to see it come in this time of year.
By "hard pine" I was referring to the common name of the sylvestris family of pines, the European hard pines, scots pine is the other one we know. It was tried here but doesn't grow with good form. Red pine is our only native member of that family which relates to our other common name for it, Norway pine.
Quote from: moodnacreek on October 23, 2018, 07:30:54 PM
Red pine, always planted around here,
I've only seen it (Red / Norway) here as having been planted, with the exception of 4 or 5 that were self seeded near a planted area but those were not growing very well. That which I have been sawing, some cut three years ago some a couple weeks ago, does present a pretty grain.
Don, I thought red pine is much stronger (by the numbers) than ewp? I know it is in my experience. Red pine is sawn for all sorts of framing here, and also for preservative treatment. Potlatch has our biggest lumber mill in the area, they saw 2x4's by the millions and the vast majority are red pine. I don't think white pine can even get the spf stamp for studs there because it's too weak (I could be wrong on this).
Given the choice I would frame with red any day. It does move a good bit more the ewp. It is certainly harder, I've drawknifed several lolg cabins with mixed soft and hard pine and I don't have to look to know when its a red.
Lets look up numbers..
In the NDS, where I go for the allowable strength design numbers, in dimensional lumber 2-4" thick Red Pine is lumped together under "Eastern Softwoods" with EWP, pitch and jack pine as well as balsam fir, black and red spruce, eastern hemlock and tamarack. Under that species combination they all carry the same numbers and can be lumped together. There is not an independent listing for just red where there is another listing for just EWP, same strength numbers, shear is 5psi lower in ewp. When I go to the heavy timber table, 5x5 and larger stuff they are both broken out separately and Red comes in a little stiffer.
The "raw" numbers are in the wood handbook where the USFPL did the original small clear wood breakage testing (never use these numbers to build with). Now we see the differences. 1st number is average green, 2nd is avg at 12%
MOR Red-5800-11,000 psi
EWP-4900-8,600 psi
E (stiffness)-
Red-1.28-1.63
EWP-.99-1.28
SYP gets the same rap concerning splitting when nailing which is why framers prefer spf, it nails easy. If you are splitting, nail guns or battery drills usually solve that.
The awc.org span calc is an easy place to look up the dimensional numbers;
https://awc.org/codes-standards/calculators-software/spancalc (https://awc.org/codes-standards/calculators-software/spancalc)