The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Tree, Plant and Wood I.D. => Topic started by: DWyatt on January 14, 2019, 08:23:32 AM

Title: Northwest Ohio Tree ID *Spring Update
Post by: DWyatt on January 14, 2019, 08:23:32 AM
This tree is in Dad's woods, up at the front by the road. It's about 24" DBH and very straight with little taper.

Here's a close up of the bark


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49164/IMG_20190113_140236676.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547471989)
 

Here's a bit further away.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49164/IMG_20190113_140300470.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547471984)
 

And here's one of the branch structure. The middle/right side of the picture is the tree in question.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49164/IMG_20190113_140250684.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547471981)
 

I told dad, this summer when the leaves come on we're going around and IDing trees in his woods since we always cut down in the winter and are always questioning what we're cutting.  Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: Al_Smith on January 14, 2019, 11:19:57 AM
Could be white oak .
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: DelawhereJoe on January 14, 2019, 11:32:10 AM
The bark kinda reminds me of yellow poplar .
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: DWyatt on January 14, 2019, 12:05:56 PM
It's definitely not white oak, all the white oak in that woods are swamp oak and 3-5' in diameter and the bark & branch structure is distinctively different.

Dad and I have our fingers crossed that it is poplar of some sort, I thought the bark looked similar to tulip poplar but I wasn't completely sure.
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: catalina on January 14, 2019, 12:07:30 PM
i vote for poplar as well.
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: Jeff on January 14, 2019, 12:23:23 PM
Looks like northern red oak bark to me. Here is one out of m yard roughly the same size.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/20190114_121855.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547486581)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/20190114_121859.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1547486527)
 
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: Al_Smith on January 14, 2019, 12:46:16 PM
 :D With so many "local" terms for an oak and possibly several hundred miles from one picture to another it's about as simple as trouble shooting a chainsaw over the internet .What in the world is a swamp oak anyway ? BTW Jeffs' red oak and my red oak don't have the same bark . 
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: Al_Smith on January 14, 2019, 12:52:46 PM
Just to add if it's northwest Ohio the whole area at one time was swamp .So with that any oak might be considered as "swamp" oak .Those eastern giants that grew in the great black swamp were some of the largest oaks ever grown on this planet  .
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: DWyatt on January 14, 2019, 12:55:48 PM
Quote from: Al_Smith on January 14, 2019, 12:46:16 PM
:D With so many "local" terms for an oak and possibly several hundred miles from one picture to another it's about as simple as trouble shooting a chainsaw over the internet .What in the world is a swamp oak anyway ? BTW Jeffs' red oak and my red oak don't have the same bark .
Here's a link from ODNR website on Swamp Oak.
http://forestry.ohiodnr.gov/swampwhiteoak (http://forestry.ohiodnr.gov/swampwhiteoak)

For what it's worth, I have never seen a red oak in Dad's woods, only white oak (swamp white oak). Also, the comparable sized red oak in my woods doesn't have the deep ridges that this tree has and it has a different branch structure. I'm trying to get better at identifying trees but sometimes it all comes through as gobbledygook :D :P
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: DWyatt on January 14, 2019, 12:57:47 PM
I'll have to get a picture of the biggun in Dad's woods, too close to the road to ever take down but I would guess it's somewhere between 5-6' DBH and 60' to the first branch, a true marvel to me.
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: Jeff on January 14, 2019, 01:12:38 PM
There are many sub species under the label of Red Oak. Mine is a northern red oak.
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: Al_Smith on January 14, 2019, 01:43:40 PM
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12054/DSCN0447_-_COPY5B15D.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1547491313)
 These are white oaks .Wow I kept my cool for once and got-er-done   8)
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: chestnut on January 14, 2019, 08:17:10 PM
Rock oak. aka chestnut oak
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: WDH on January 14, 2019, 08:29:33 PM
From the close up bark pic sure does look like chestnut oak, a white oak.  Quercus montana.

Virginia Tech Dendrology Fact Sheet (http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=76)
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: DWyatt on January 14, 2019, 09:43:04 PM
Hmm now I am more confused. What throws me off is the "breaks" in the bark that run horizontal, breaking up the vertical bark "runs". Also, what throws me that I haven't really seen before is the distinctive grey/white in the valleys of the bark. Maybe we'll just have to cut it down for scientific research. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: WDH on January 15, 2019, 07:54:50 AM
Or you could wait and get a leaf :).
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: Al_Smith on January 15, 2019, 08:29:11 AM
I'd probably wait for the leaf myself rather than trip a tree for sport .Think about it .In Ohio hard woods it would take over 100 years to get a 24"  diameter tree .Those 36-40 inch white oaks I pictured likely 200 years .

A few years ago I had to take down a wind damaged red oak that was a tad over 4 feet and 118 feet tall shot with a laser to verify .I counted 278 rings dating back before the revolutionary war .
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: DelawhereJoe on January 16, 2019, 07:39:52 PM
The tulip/yellow poplar will get that silver in the valley of the bark, you may be able to find some of the flower/seed clusters still on the tree or on the ground around it.
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: DelawhereJoe on January 16, 2019, 07:43:47 PM
Virginia Tech Dendrology Fact Sheet (http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=54)
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: BuckeyeAaron on January 17, 2019, 07:09:47 AM
My first reaction was black walnut based on the first picture.  Definitely not red, white, or chestnut oak and that bark I'd awfully dark to be tuliptree.  Could be black gum perhaps as its bark has the ability to look a little like everything else.  On what kind of site/soils is the tree growing?  To confirm walnut, take a pocket knife and shave the outer bark.  The inner bark should be a chocolate brown color.
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: WDH on January 17, 2019, 07:58:46 AM
Actually the chocolate brown is still the outer bark.  If you go through the brown part and into the inner bark that is functioning phloem (transport of sugars from photosynthesis, the inner bark is a bright sulfur yellow.
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: WDH on January 17, 2019, 08:02:48 AM
If it is an oak, yellow poplar, or walnut, all we need is a twig with buds.  Oaks have a cluster of buds at the twig tip.  Yellow poplar has a bud shaped like a duckbill with two distinct halves called a valvate bud.  Also, the stipular scars completely encircle the twig whereas in oak and walnut, there are not even barely visible and do not encircle the twig.  You can split the pith in the walnut twig, and the pith will be chambered with very distinct black dividers. 
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: Hewer of Wood on January 17, 2019, 08:47:48 AM
Looks like it could possibly be cottonwood?
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: DWyatt on January 17, 2019, 10:09:26 AM
To all, I will stop by the woods tonight and I know there is a cluster of 4 or 5 of these trees that are all together with a couple 8-12" trees with the larger two. Maybe I'll be able to get a twig off of one of the smaller trees with the pole pruner. I will keep you posted.
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: BuckeyeAaron on January 17, 2019, 11:12:00 AM
Quote from: WDH on January 17, 2019, 07:58:46 AM
Actually the chocolate brown is still the outer bark.  If you go through the brown part and into the inner bark that is functioning phloem (transport of sugars from photosynthesis, the inner bark is a bright sulfur yellow.
Correct. Poor terminology on my part.  I should have said "the inside/interior of the outer bark."
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: WDH on January 17, 2019, 12:27:49 PM
If cottonwood, twigs should be stout and 4-angled toward the tip.  The pith of twig is solid and be star-shaped on x-section. 
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: DWyatt on January 18, 2019, 10:27:44 AM
Sorry to disappoint guys but I didn't get to Mom and Dad's until after dark last night, so I didn't get a branch, I will try again tonight. 
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: OHBucknut on January 26, 2019, 08:19:02 PM
Black gum or poplar. I would wait for for leaves or dig around for some old leaves. 
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: WDH on January 26, 2019, 09:36:22 PM
The buds of both yellow poplar and blackgum are distinctive.  Plus, blackgum has a diaghrammed pith. 
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: DWyatt on January 28, 2019, 11:10:53 AM
I will unfortunately have to wait till spring when the leaves come on before I figure out what tree this is. I tried to get to a branch with no luck. 
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: yetti462 on February 07, 2019, 08:42:16 AM
Quote from: Hewer of Wood on January 17, 2019, 08:47:48 AM
Looks like it could possibly be cottonwood?
This was my first thought.
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: DWyatt on March 26, 2019, 12:46:03 PM
The buds have started to come out on the tree in question. I've added a couple pictures the best ones I could get. All limbs in the pictures are from the same type of tree. It appears that the buds and twigs are alternate.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49164/IMG_20190324_185227330.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1553618592)
 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49164/IMG_20190324_185158418.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1553618591)
 

Hopefully these help!
Title: Re: Northwest Ohio Tree ID
Post by: DWyatt on May 13, 2019, 06:51:22 AM
Here's an update. Dad and I went over to the woods Saturday and took a look at the trees in question now that the leaves are out. After spending about a half hour looking through the ODNR website for trees we believe these are cottonwood (Populus deltoides). The shape of the leaf as well as being alternate and very thin and "whispy" in the wind gave it away. Young trees have smoother, grey looking bark and as they age they develop the deep ridges in the bark we are used to seeing

Side note that neither of us knew. Cottonwood has male and female trees, the male trees are the ones that make the cotton that we are familiar with. The female trees do not produce the same flowers and pollen.