the new 7.3 will be a gas motor with a 10 sp trans
Quote from: snowstorm on February 05, 2019, 08:24:43 AM
the new 7.3 will be a gas motor with a 10 sp trans
HUH? WHAT? I have been looking for 7.3 with low miles (I'd take anything close to 100k) for months. Nothing I'd want so far but ..umhhh.....the 7.3 was legendary for a diesel. GAS? WHAT?
T444e is the same engine with and industrial bellhousing. Busses were retired at 100k all the time. I couldnt give those turds away at the JY. If a stock powerstroke is all you had in mind anyways its about the same. The tuner stuff available for PSD does not work on 444e computer.
I hate V8 diesels fwiw.
Quote from: mike_belben on February 05, 2019, 08:50:22 AM
T444e is the same engine with and industrial bellhousing. Busses were retired at 100k all the time. I couldnt give those turds away at the JY. If a stock powerstroke is all you had in mind anyways its about the same. The tuner stuff available for PSD does not work on 444e computer.
I hate V8 diesels fwiw.
Ha, I'm not Mike the mechanic Belben :). A 7.3 stock diesel would run for 400k or so if you change oil fairly often. I don't know what a t444e is?
But out of curiousity since you know I am out of my depth here ...why not a diesel v8?
Just saw a news article on this engine - had photos of the truck too - the duallys have gone back to a two piece rear body / fender flare set up. $60K + I bet and you will always have a rattle and stain on the body, good going Ford, the 1980's called and want their designer back.
Quote from: nativewolf on February 05, 2019, 09:10:35 AM
Quote from: mike_belben on February 05, 2019, 08:50:22 AM
T444e is the same engine with and industrial bellhousing. Busses were retired at 100k all the time. I couldnt give those turds away at the JY. If a stock powerstroke is all you had in mind anyways its about the same. The tuner stuff available for PSD does not work on 444e computer.
I hate V8 diesels fwiw.
Ha, I'm not Mike the mechanic Belben :). A 7.3 stock diesel would run for 400k or so if you change oil fairly often. I don't know what a t444e is?
But out of curiousity since you know I am out of my depth here ...why not a diesel v8?
We had two 7.3's in the early 2000's first one had a full top end at 30k, second transmission, rearends and motor all by 80k.
Are we going full hijack?
Yeah i guess 400k is a pretty fair goal for passenger diesels. But its gonna be 3 sets of brakes, balljoints, unit bearings, alternators a few starters, Ac compressor clutch, waterpumps etc to get there. Like anything else right? At the price of a new truck its reasonable to want 400k and to dream the motor is gonna be good for it but the rest of the ship just aint that durable. Any brand.
V8 diesels just dont have the room compared to inline 6. Youve got two valvetrains, 2 heads and gaskets, a manifold that has to bridge two expanding towers of cylinder head and not leak coolant or boost. Then the exhaust piping. Ford loved to use very small bolt heads, 12pt or external torx, i dont recall exactly but like a 10mm head for exhaust piping and it'd strip out in the back against the firewall where no other tool could go so u almost had to pull the cab for some of the oh nos that could happen. Getting the valvecovers off to do glowplugs was a chore. Getting the turbo off because the pedestal Orings had failed and the entire engine had a lake of motor oil on top was a full nightmare. The V8 layout just brings a lot of extra fasteners and pipes that I6 didnt have. If you ever fixed a semi truck youd hate going to a passenger v8 diesel after it. And if you ever fixed a PSD, youd love a i6 layout for the ease of access and reduction of parts. Im not saying get a dodge cummins, they all have issues. Just saying i6 is easier typically than v8 of similar emissions generation.
The 7.3 was made by navistar, first as a 6.9idi the into the 7.3idi the the 7.3PSD. Industrially the 7.3 psd is known as the T444e. Found in buses and medium duty trucks. I dont know exact differences other than bellhousing on the industrial is an SAE pattern, probably #2.. And that the industrial computer is different than the passenger truck. But the 444e is very plentiful. Or was. We quit trying to sell them eventually. They went straight into the #1 iron pile.
Well my LBZ Duramax has about 410K on it now, only thing I have done on the motor was the injection pump and head gasket update as it came with the old style and let go at 300K. Brakes yes, but still the OEM wheel bearings, ball joints, etc. I did have to replace the fan clutch once as well.
I mushroomed a hammer the other day so take it with a grain of salt. Ymmv
;D
My 7.3L 6speed has 250k on it. Its had 2 clutches, wheel bearings, ball joints, tie rods, brakes, and not much else. Truck has a hard life on the farm and in the woods, tows 20k lbs, and plows snow all winter long. I'm on the hunt for a rust free ext cab body to replace my salt rotted cab.
I'd love to find a clean low mile CCLB 7.3 truck but they are getting rare and when you do they want a mint for them.
Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on February 05, 2019, 10:55:38 AM
My 7.3L 6speed has 250k on it. Its had 2 clutches, wheel bearings, ball joints, tie rods, brakes, and not much else. Truck has a hard life on the farm and in the woods, tows 20k lbs, and plows snow all winter long. I'm on the hunt for a rust free ext cab body to replace my salt rotted cab.
I'd love to find a clean low mile CCLB 7.3 truck but they are getting rare and when you do they want a mint for them.
Right...that's what I was looking for.
Quote from: nativewolf on February 05, 2019, 12:33:37 PM
Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on February 05, 2019, 10:55:38 AM
My 7.3L 6speed has 250k on it. Its had 2 clutches, wheel bearings, ball joints, tie rods, brakes, and not much else. Truck has a hard life on the farm and in the woods, tows 20k lbs, and plows snow all winter long. I'm on the hunt for a rust free ext cab body to replace my salt rotted cab.
I'd love to find a clean low mile CCLB 7.3 truck but they are getting rare and when you do they want a mint for them.
Right...that's what I was looking for.
I picked this one up a few years ago, about 170 on it now. I use it as needed for towing, never in winter. I expect it will last me many years at this rate.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42799/1995F3501986GMC_080915_.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1462297407)
Pretty sure my 94.5 cclb 5spd first gen powerstroke is the best truck that ever left the assembly line. I'll wrestle anyone who says different!
the cutaway of the 7.3 gas looked pretty good. oil cooled pistons roller cam followers roller rockers and spark plugs back where they used to be. i have had several and still have 1 7.3 stroke and they were great in there day. that day has passed. the 6.7 has been around since 11 i have 2 of them a 12 and a new 1. everything if far better. quite. better fuel mileage way more power and a much better trans. and for the motor everyone loves to hate the 6.0 i have one in a 550 and its really been pretty good
and with the 6.7 you will never have the rusty oil pan issue. cause it would only take 10 min to change it
I wouldn't mind a nice 6.7 either or a new gas but the $$ :(. I'm saving money for new machines 8)
some of us have to buy stuff or pay the tax man
Maybe there's some misunderstanding here? Seems like they're still selling the 6.7 diesel.
From Car and Driver today (Feb 5):
"Super Duty will now offer two gasoline-powered V-8 engines...
...standard 6.2-liter V-8, ... unchanged...
...all-new 7.3-liter pushrod V-8 ...variable valve timing, port fuel injection, cross-bolted main bearings, and a forged-steel crankshaft..."
"The...Power Stroke diesel ... 6.7-liter V-8 ... upgraded fuel-injection ... redesigned turbocharger"
Detroit Free Press said about the same. Carl
Quote from: snowstorm on February 05, 2019, 06:09:12 PM
some of us have to buy stuff or pay the tax man
Good on you 8). I'm not there yet...
Quote from: CarlR on February 05, 2019, 06:36:57 PM
Maybe there's some misunderstanding here? Seems like they're still selling the 6.7 diesel.
From Car and Driver today (Feb 5):
"Super Duty will now offer two gasoline-powered V-8 engines...
...standard 6.2-liter V-8, ... unchanged...
...all-new 7.3-liter pushrod V-8 ...variable valve timing, port fuel injection, cross-bolted main bearings, and a forged-steel crankshaft..."
"The...Power Stroke diesel ... 6.7-liter V-8 ... upgraded fuel-injection ... redesigned turbocharger"
Detroit Free Press said about the same. Carl
Yep, initially I was thinking no more diesel but that's not the case. The 7.3 gas is supposed to be for average hauling sort of folk. Seems well intentioned. We'll see. I don't buy new products because I'm not mechanically inclined and not really needing any new whiz gadgets.
Ford 2020 super duty trucks (7.3 liter gas - have to look through and see what the gpf etc is, latest Bosch? injectors etc?)
New 2020 Ford Super Duty Gets a More Powerful Diesel AND A NEW 7.3L V8 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/fNMVdAXn0Xo)
Kenworth hauling RV trailer (what a few pickup drivers would prefer to have?)
RV Haulers, Smart Car... - YouTube (https://youtu.be/2TlV1lR0Suc)
Cummins diesel into ex-powerstroke Ford 2004.
FUMMINS DIESEL SWAP: 5.9 Cummins in an '04 Ford F350 (Part 1) - YouTube (https://youtu.be/Q2nKxUpgbOk?t=159)
I'd rather pay the tax man then buy something I don't need (thus spending thousands to save pennies). If it's something I need (like the new round baler I bought this year) then that's different. Since my old 7.3 truck gets me from a to b without issues replacing it isn't something I need to do.
Also don't like spending money on things that don't provide a return and make me money. Pickup truck doesn't really make me any money (other than hauling hay home). So its last on the list for an upgrade.
Hoping to have the issue this year...lots of things that would make life easier. First I need 8000 blueberry plants and a new irrigation system. Then a new retail barn/event place, then a greenhouse...then maybe new SUV for the farm...a model X ;D. Thats a long list.
83 F250, 86 international, 74 kenworth and a 97 cummins. Theyre all old junk but theyre all pretty simple too. I never look at flashing lights telling me i have a problem anymore.
Well, unless its DOT ;)
Quote from: nativewolf on February 05, 2019, 06:57:11 PM
Hoping to have the issue this year...lots of things that would make life easier. First I need 8000 blueberry plants and a new irrigation system. Then a new retail barn/event place, then a greenhouse...then maybe new SUV for the farm...a model X ;D. Thats a long list.
dont you know the only place real blueberrys are grown is maine? on the news last summer they interviewed one of the bigger outfits. they were going to harvest 25000 ac so i would assume they own at least 50000. since they harvest every other year. the off year they used to burn the fields now some use fail mowers. when i was in high school i worked for a blue berry co before it was time to rake we did what they called kill bushing. spray the brush in the fields with herbicide and fuel oil lots of oil. today the fields are just as green as ever
Quote from: snowstorm on February 05, 2019, 07:15:50 PM
Quote from: nativewolf on February 05, 2019, 06:57:11 PM
Hoping to have the issue this year...lots of things that would make life easier. First I need 8000 blueberry plants and a new irrigation system. Then a new retail barn/event place, then a greenhouse...then maybe new SUV for the farm...a model X ;D. Thats a long list.
dont you know the only place real blueberrys are grown is maine? on the news last summer they interviewed one of the bigger outfits. they were going to harvest 25000 ac so i would assume they own at least 50000. since they harvest every other year. the off year they used to burn the fields now some use fail mowers. when i was in high school i worked for a blue berry co before it was time to rake we did what they called kill bushing. spray the brush in the fields with herbicide and fuel oil lots of oil. today the fields are just as green as ever
I grew up close to blueberry fields of NC. Organic matter on sand will grow good berries! NJ, MI, ME, and NC used to be it but now FL is a big force with rabbit eyes specially breed to flower and set with little cold.
Mine will be three highbush species with about a 6 week harvest period. Hey got to take advantage of being close to DC, upick prices are more than the grocery.
My brother is on a sandy mountaintop in central mass and has a very productive little blueberry patch with epic delicious berries. Im jealous of his pancakes. They beat my wild blackberry pancakes hands down. Thinking theres got to be a way to sweeten up the blackberries. Theyve got a very short window between unripe, bitter and past ripe, bitter. Maybe 1 or 2 days of sweet flavor.
the berry biz has changed a lot here. the days of raking by hand are about over. the rocks got taken out so they can mechanical harvest. and with a tractor they can out run the bears. bears love berrys.
.What kind of mileage is a 7.3 gas engine gonna have? Will it be better than a diesel? I doubt it, but maybe.
I had a 2002 F250 with a 7.3. I Loved that truck, but needed a bigger back seat. Then a 2008 F250 with a 6.4. That as a great truck. New injectors at 150,000.
Now I've got an F350 with 6.7. Wanted a bigger truckk to pull my camper and logs.
nativewolf, if you want to go into CTL logging, you better dig deep and find your inner mechanical inclination!😁😁
Quote from: barbender on February 06, 2019, 04:15:34 AM
nativewolf, if you want to go into CTL logging, you better dig deep and find your inner mechanical inclination!😁😁
:D I did...it is called service contract. For small things like hoses, etc that is ok, for more important repairs it will be a purchased service contract...and new equipment.
be sure and let us know how that works out for you
Quote from: nativewolf on February 06, 2019, 05:50:58 AM
Quote from: barbender on February 06, 2019, 04:15:34 AM
nativewolf, if you want to go into CTL logging, you better dig deep and find your inner mechanical inclination!😁😁
:D I did...it is called service contract. For small things like hoses, etc that is ok, for more important repairs it will be a purchased service contract...and new equipment.
Time is money and if they need to drive out to you from where ever two or three days can kill quick. New equipment is great till that payment is looking at you saying feed me or I'll eat you alive, a low hour used machine is going to be just as good or better plus no reason you can't get a service contract on one either.
Yep time is money. I don't know..we have crap for mechanics locally. I'm a forester/consultant not a mechanic. My operators are not mechanics. It is what it is. I have to move faster, much faster if I am going to hit numbers i would like to see. I was fortunate to get to see an emergency repair go bad and get resolved. That was helpful, being there in the field when it was happening. I know I might be down a day or two but I think I would be down a few days or months waiting on some local yahoo. Right now I am missing my good buddy that recently passed away far too soon. But he's passed and I haven't found anyone else like him.
We are actually looking at slightly used demo stuff, a hundred hours, etc. Anyway, back to the ford 7.3 the reason i am interested in the older low miles diesel ones is that they are reasonably trouble free in major components. But they no longer look so cheap.
My old 1990 Hino looks better and better.
Vehicle wise, sometimes the devil ya know is better than the one ya dont i guess. No guarantees in life, just gotta keep chippin away at it anyhow.
I read an article in the Yankee magazine that most of Maine's blueberry go in frozen food products and dry cereal.
I plowed snow with a F350 first year 7.3 with stick shift for many years.
It would push some snow across the big parking lots and sream some hammering back in reverse .
Biggest problem I remember with the 7.3 was the cam sensor, but that was an easy fix on the side of the road.
Quote from: firefighter ontheside on February 06, 2019, 05:57:19 PM
Biggest problem I remember with the 7.3 was the cam sensor, but that was an easy fix on the side of the road.
there is still an open recall on that
I got a 2000 model 7.3. The block cracked at the cylinder wall around 276k I found another motor that was in a fire with 175k put some gaskets in it and set it back down in and fired it up. I done it on a weekend in the backyard. Wasnt a big deal at all truck has 340k on it now. I think the drivetrain is going to outlast the body oh well. This new 7.3 is a big block replacement for the v10 they discounted a few years back. Not everybody wants to own a diesel and are completely happy with a gas truck. I've had diesels for the last 16 years and I can tell you I've just about had enough. Between the dead dual batteries to the hard to start when it's cold out to the cold drive to work because it takes 45 minutes to get warm heat in the cab the double the amount of oil and the to small of a unit bearing for the weight up front I dont think it's really worth it anymore. Diesel use to be way cheaper then gas but now since every soccer mom owns one to haul groceries it's always more expensive then gas.
@ohiowoodchuck (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=25669) I hear you on the diesels. In fact a large gas engine with good torque would likely be more than fine for me. However, i wouldn't want to be owners int he first year or two, then I need for them to sit out and get tested for 3-4 years then I'd know if it is a dud or not and then I'd be willing to buy a new or used. That puts that out 5 years or so and I need a truck (or two) this year. I'll keep looking..
Everything I read about it sounded like a very durable engine with minimal maintenance. I believe they went back to pushrods and a timing chain instead of the overhead cams and timing belt. I'd try one but I'm not paying 70k for a truck. That's just ridiculous
Quote from: snowstorm on February 06, 2019, 07:10:53 PM
Quote from: firefighter ontheside on February 06, 2019, 05:57:19 PM
Biggest problem I remember with the 7.3 was the cam sensor, but that was an easy fix on the side of the road.
there is still an open recall on that
I knew it was a problem with the truck, so I bought a cam sensor from an international dealer and carried it in the truck. The sensor went,out at about 100,000 miles. I bought another sensor at the IH dealer. These 2 sensors were about $100. A while later the recall came out and like a miracle the cam sensor could be bought for less than$30.
Talking about the 7.3 diesel I had a 94 f250 5 speed stick. Non turbo non di. Had the mechanical injection pump. Truck burned with 252,000 on it. Guy bought the truck. Parked it for a year. Had problems with his 7.3. He Pulled mine off the frame put his rebuilt heads on pump injectors intake and glow plugs on. That was 13 years ago. Still runs it every day. Last I heard he figured he's got about 800,000 on it. Still starts great and doesn't use any oil between 3,000 mile oil changes. Darn good engines. I miss that truck. 12 mpg no matter what you were doing with it. I actually found a few trucks with the same engine I'm considering looking at.
All that aside it sounds like the 7.3 gas jobby they are coming out with sounds a lot like the ford 460 that they made for almost 30 years. Those were dynamite engines also. Just liked their gas. But like they say takes gas to pull stuff. No replacement for displacement!! :D
Quote from: Cub on February 08, 2019, 09:59:56 PM
All that aside it sounds like the 7.3 gas jobby they are coming out with sounds a lot like the ford 460 that they made for almost 30 years. Those were dynamite engines also. Just liked their gas. But like they say takes gas to pull stuff. No replacement for displacement!! :D
I had a 460 in a 79 ford truck its true you could pass and pull anything but a gas station. I remember kicking in that 750 Holley and watching the speedometer go up as fast as the gas gauge went down.
Local boneyard down the road has a stack of 7.3s there, engines outlive the trucks. The LLY in my 3500 has been the biggest money pit possible, never again, I'm in "headgasket denial" right now.
The 6.7 we have now goes down the road in a few weeks, I'm honestly impressed with that truck, it's got the power and brakes I wouldnt hesitate to go down the road with a 440 / 450 on the trailer.
Quote from: BargeMonkey on February 09, 2019, 01:14:39 AM
Local boneyard down the road has a stack of 7.3s there, engines outlive the trucks. The LLY in my 3500 has been the biggest money pit possible, never again, I'm in "headgasket denial" right now.
The 6.7 we have now goes down the road in a few weeks, I'm honestly impressed with that truck, it's got the power and brakes I wouldnt hesitate to go down the road with a 440 / 450 on the trailer.
Is it the 6.7 ford or cummins I dont have experience with the 6.7 cummins my buddy has a 6.7 powerstroke and I'm here to tell you it's the real deal I had him go pick up my 440 since I was having trailer brake controller issues. It hauled it down the road like it wasnt even back there he has even moved a couple jd 450 dozers with it he said you could tell it was a load but the truck took it down the road like it was suppose to.
If theyd have put 10 or more gears in any of the gutless ton trucks 30 years ago no one woulda had to wait this long or mortgaged a house to get one. Its not like an auxiliary range gear is that hard to do.
370 gas jobs moved plenty of single screw paystars and old farm junk up and down these mountains since before asphalt. If youve got the time, all it takes is more gears to go up and more brakes to come down.
The 460 ford one ton bought new couldn't keep brakes or manifolds on it.
Dealer would put new manifolds on in one week it would crack and Leak.
Was it the back left corner shearing off bolts? I just read about this last night considering a 460 swap and i guess it was 2 different iron expansion rates. Headers with a segmented flange or oversized holes was said to be the cure.
Mike
Yes I liked the motor pulled good and plowed snow well.
I had a gas Chevy one ton with a 7. Something with the Allison trans pulled like a beast hard on gas. Never plowed it just pulled my 24ft job trailer with it.
They stopped using it went to the gutless 6.0.
I had a 6.0 in a halfton that was good.
Manifold, argh!
My last truck was an 05 2500HD with a 6.0. Not a whole lotta power, not a whole lotta issue's either. But the manifolds. I got new hardware (updated) and manifolds under factory warranty when I bought it in 07 or 08. I got them done again in 2015. I traded the truck last year and it had under 80K on it!
My new(er) truck is a 2015 GMC 3500DH with the 6.0. GM has made improvement in the power dept, but not the manifold dept! I dropped it off to my buddy at the GMC dealer for an LOF and look over, it's got 55K miles. It got to spend the night. He noticed a few manifold bolts were missing heads, then he removed the manifold(s) and they were warped! It was all covered under powertrain warranty, so that was good news. My buddy was less than impressed with my newly undercoated truck :-\, he was a little, no a lot messy when he was done. I repaid him with a nice Italian sandwich!
Funny, I have owned and used hard quite a few 460's from the time ford first made them available in a pickup. I still have and use an 87 with a 460 and 5 spd, and a 79 one ton dump with a c6. I have never had any manifold problems that I can remember out of any of them. I also had several cars with the 429 or 460 engine. I can't recall any of them, cars or pickups I got less than 200,000 miles out of, except a 79 f250, I bought new, but totaled right before it hit 100,000.
I got good gas mileage out of the cars, and 1/2 ton pickups, not so good out of the 3/4 and 1 ton pickups.
I am glad to here ford is coming out with a new PUSHROD engine. I literally hate starting overhead cam engines when temps are 20 below or less, way too much strain on the timing chains, but I am not and will never again be in the market for a new pickup, especially at todays prices.
I've got an old IDI, I like it, does what I need, and gives me lots of contemplation time while doing it HAHAHAHA(idi joke)
As far as I am concerned, the old idi 6.9's were one of the best engines ever installed in a ford pickup. I still have a couple, but I have installed a turbo and overdrive unit on one of them.
They will not do what currant diesels do, but did everything I ever wanted to do with a pickup, I always had bigger trucks to use, when I needed a truck.
I never had any trouble out of the 460 manifolds either we would always go find a 460 out of a lincoln continental buy motor mounts for a 440 mopar bolt them on to the 460, change out the passenger side manifold for one from a truck and drop it down and go. If we couldn't find a manifold we would dish out the top rail of the frame and it would give the clearance we needed.
Quote from: ohiowoodchuck on February 09, 2019, 09:58:27 AM
Quote from: BargeMonkey on February 09, 2019, 01:14:39 AM
Local boneyard down the road has a stack of 7.3s there, engines outlive the trucks. The LLY in my 3500 has been the biggest money pit possible, never again, I'm in "headgasket denial" right now.
The 6.7 we have now goes down the road in a few weeks, I'm honestly impressed with that truck, it's got the power and brakes I wouldnt hesitate to go down the road with a 440 / 450 on the trailer.
Is it the 6.7 ford or cummins I dont have experience with the 6.7 cummins my buddy has a 6.7 powerstroke and I'm here to tell you it's the real deal I had him go pick up my 440 since I was having trailer brake controller issues. It hauled it down the road like it wasnt even back there he has even moved a couple jd 450 dozers with it he said you could tell it was a load but the truck took it down the road like it was suppose to.
6.7 Ford. Bone stock in a 1-ton dually dump it's still pretty nasty. Definitely has power enough and the trans brake works well, I've went up the road with 16x 4x5 haylage bails and I was impressed, this one sees 3 cord of wood on a constant basis.
I have a 1996 460 switch to headers due to broken bolts. Manifold didn't break but they are so thick with emissions running through they expand and contract and break the bolts. Great motors though. 10 mpg. I wouldn't own a diesel. Ran many and sick of cold starts fuel filters and exspnece.
I too have no intention of ever buying a new superduty ; I will let somebody else eat that depreciation. The first step is to admit you have a problem. I have a Ford truck problem. I own and maintain five powerstrokes . One 6.7 , Two 6.0 s and two 7.3s . The 2000 F550 smokes a little with 700k on it. I am impressed with the 6.7 , but probably more impressed with the truck, quiet and smooth. My favorite psd is the 6.0. The 2003 F250 has the head studs and stock programming. The 2004 Excursion 6.0 has been modified and it is nothing short of a beast and gets 20 mpg . I found good deals on both my 6.0 s after people got diesel shock from repair cost. I was telling a friend that had sworn off the diesel pickups how much I liked the 6.0 and he said that is because you don't have to spend 5k every time it breaks down!
I have an 03 Dodge 3500 with a 5.9 Cummins, it's been good. It had around 120K on it when I got it, around 190K now. It starts good in the cold, in fact yesterday the GFI outlet I was plugged into for my block heater was tripped. -27°F and it fired right up. This common rail Cummins runs nice, my 12 valve would've started too but it would've been coughing and spitting for 15 minutes😊 However, it's getting where I don't pull enough to justify a diesel.
nothing i own would start at -27 and that includes me. Thats national emergency temps, aint goin nowhere.
My 12 valve will not start below 10 below, unless it is plugged in, then 30 or even 40 below is no problem at all.
I suppose everything I own starts at 30 below with no problems as long as they are plugged in, I just hate to start plugging in the gas rigs until it is 10 below or more, it is too hard on the electric meter.
My Cummins have always started good in the cold. I plug them in just cause it's easier on them. The intake grid heater is key, let it cycle til it kicks out, turn the key off and let it cycle again. Then hit the starter and they come to life. I was surpised how easily mine started yesterday. It seemed like it cranked hard for being plugged in, well in essence it wasn't😊 Same routine for the Ponsse machines, the Mercedes 906 has a intake grid heater system as well. My forwarder will reliably cold start down to -20, not the preferred method but sometimes the Webasto preheatedr malfunctions and you show up to a cold machine. Mike, up here if you won't go out on the -25 mornings, you won't get out much. Especially this winter, it's been a bit of a doozie. Lots of snow and cold👎
I forgot to mention, I do run 5-40 synthetic Rotella oil in my Cummins, that definitely makes a difference.
Wasn't the 7.3 a gas engine to begin with? I think it was based on the IH v8 that replaced the 304-392 for the epa rules. My '91 f350 pu has 200,000 and gets 20 mpg running lite. Only problem it's only 185 hp.
Quote from: kiko on February 10, 2019, 10:24:44 AM
I too have no intention of ever buying a new superduty ; I will let somebody else eat that depreciation. The first step is to admit you have a problem. I have a Ford truck problem. I own and maintain five powerstrokes . One 6.7 , Two 6.0 s and two 7.3s . The 2000 F550 smokes a little with 700k on it. I am impressed with the 6.7 , but probably more impressed with the truck, quiet and smooth. My favorite psd is the 6.0. The 2003 F250 has the head studs and stock programming. The 2004 Excursion 6.0 has been modified and it is nothing short of a beast and gets 20 mpg . I found good deals on both my 6.0 s after people got diesel shock from repair cost. I was telling a friend that had sworn off the diesel pickups how much I liked the 6.0 and he said that is because you don't have to spend 5k every time it breaks down!
you have more than i do. i only have 4. 1 7.3 1 6.0 2 6.7. i have never plugged a 6.7 in. maybe should have. the coldest it was it was -28 it started ran a few seconds stopped started back up ran fine. since you have an older f550. have you had any trouble breaking wheel studs? 04 and older had 8 newer had 10. sometimes its on the front usually its the rear. nice to see i am not the only one that likes his 6.0
Quote from: moodnacreek on February 10, 2019, 04:23:47 PM
Wasn't the 7.3 a gas engine to begin with? I think it was based on the IH v8 that replaced the 304-392 for the epa rules. My '91 f350 pu has 200,000 and gets 20 mpg running lite. Only problem it's only 185 hp.
It is my understanding that the 6.9 started life as a diesel, it evolved into the 7.3.
The original 5.7 chevy was built on the olds 350 block, after there life was up as a diesel (pretty quick), the circle track guys used a lot of the blocks and bottom ends to build them back gas.
Quote from: moodnacreek on February 10, 2019, 04:23:47 PM
Wasn't the 7.3 a gas engine to begin with? I think it was based on the IH v8 that replaced the 304-392 for the epa rules. My '91 f350 pu has 200,000 and gets 20 mpg running lite. Only problem it's only 185 hp.
that would have been the 404 446 gas that ih came out with in the late 70's? also a 537. they replaced the older gas motors. i never heard the 7.3 came from that. they used to say way back that the 1160 cat was styled after a 534 ford. the 1160 later became a 3208
With the 550 I have not any issues with the wheel studs on either end. If you change the rear brake pads every 24k miles, you won't get into the rotors. Had a 99 F450 that was the same way. I can't give an exact count but have rebuilt the entire front end on the F550 several times , each time the wheel bearing assemblies were replaced and the came with new wheel studs. Had several issues with the clutch and hydraulic master slave. With the IMT box ,crane,air compressor, welder and tools , I believe the front is light. This truck has been retired to a yard truck but is still dependable. Took it up the road not to long ago to do a clutch job on a Trelan chipper.
i know several that run f550 plowing roads. most have a 10ft plow and a 9ft wing then add a sander and sand. mine weights 15000 with out sand. so loaded its close to 25000. and there is some side load with the wing. last week it cleaned off all 8 studs at once. by the time i got stopped one tire was laying on the ground. bolth wheels were junk after that the stud holes were now slotted. and for anyone that has the studs break never buy them from napa. buy from ford much better and use a torque wrench 165 lbs
from what i read the 7.3 will have a variable flow oil pump. as they put it once it gets a little wear like after 3 to 400,000 it will increase oil psi to bring it back up to spec. and its not direct injected
Quote from: snowstorm on February 11, 2019, 06:17:44 PM
from what i read the 7.3 will have a variable flow oil pump. as they put it once it gets a little wear like after 3 to 400,000 it will increase oil psi to bring it back up to spec. and its not direct injected
Pre combustion; hard to find these days but I think it's better for me because most of my fuel is waste veg. oil.
It's a gas engine.
I don't think anyone has mentioned a gas engine in about two, maybe three pages. ;D
True.😂
Sales of Ford Ranger reportedly going okay.
and recall
Ford Already Having To Recall New Ranger - CarBuzz (https://carbuzz.com/news/ford-already-having-to-recall-new-ranger)
SA bakkie battle: Ford begins building its next-gen Ranger in Pretoria | Wheels24 (https://www.wheels24.co.za/OffRoad_and_4x4/Bakkie_and_SUV/sa-bakkie-battle-ford-begins-building-its-next-gen-ranger-in-pretoria-20190211)
Quote from: snowstorm on February 10, 2019, 05:12:17 PM
Quote from: moodnacreek on February 10, 2019, 04:23:47 PM
Wasn't the 7.3 a gas engine to begin with? I think it was based on the IH v8 that replaced the 304-392 for the epa rules. My '91 f350 pu has 200,000 and gets 20 mpg running lite. Only problem it's only 185 hp.
that would have been the 404 446 gas that ih came out with in the late 70's? also a 537. they replaced the older gas motors. i never heard the 7.3 came from that. they used to say way back that the 1160 cat was styled after a 534 ford. the 1160 later became a 3208
Because the 6.9, and later 7.3, shared many bolt on components with the 404-446 gasser to capitolize on an established replacement parts supply many believe it was a converted gasser.. Inside, it's a diesel, having oil spray cooling on the piston skirts, etc... The bare 6.9 / 7.3 block weighs several hundred pounds more than the gassers.
Square 1, thanks for that post.
The 7.3 idi was born from the 6.9idi block by overboring it due to low power complaints. The original casting was sufficient for 6.9 but not 7.3 so thats where the cavitation issues come from, too little cylinder wall. Over time and billions of cycles, the pressure waves in the coolant cavity lap the shores of the cylinder wall backsides and this water against metal action erodes from the water jacket until a pin hole breaks into the liner and leaks. I suppose sleeving is an option but overboring early 7.3 is certainly risky business. SCA coolant additives may as well have been invented for the 7.3 idi. Itsna plastic coating so that the erosion eats the coating instead of metal. Just dont let it run out.
Another issue was the 6.9 had a loose valve seal that consumed a lot of oil and carboned up the back of the valves so they went much tighter on the 7.3 version but erred on the too tight side so valves were prone to starve of oil, wear the guide and stem, in extreme cases break the valve face off and drop it into the hole. I think itsna wives tale that they wore the stems that thin. It doesnt take much loss of guide lubricant to gall the stem into the guide, stick open a second, and bend the pushrod/smash the valve face off.
Anyway these are the two potential disasters in the early navistar idi, [kinda like the cummins 53 block cracking or potentially owning a 6.2gm diesel ;D ] the rest is just basic maintenancy stuff. I think the 6.9 may have also had insufficiently sized head studs that were bumped up in the 7.3 but my memory is foggy on that and i could be wrong.
I hated the fuel system on my idi. It was the hardest priming truck i ever had and i parted ways with it during one of the rare instances when the thing was running well.
Mike, the 7.3 idi I mention has been with me since '92. The Roosa master style pump has been disappointing . Been through at least 7. Dumbest thing I did was buy cheap ones off E bay [diesel care]. Although the pumps won't last 100,000, if the pump is done right the engine runs well and gets good fuel mileage. I can change the fuel filter, start right up and drive away without a miss. Now don't get behind me if I got the trailer on !
I thought stanadyne made those fuel systems? I dunno, i had the displeasure of owning that one for maybe a year and wrote them off. No idi's or v8 diesels allowed in my life. 6BTs and DT466s and 13speeds i know are worth the overhaul. Can i find a 6lug budd 22.5 to save my life? No. No i cannot.
I had good luck with my 6.9 and 7.3.
the 83 and 4 6.9's had a weak spot around the freeze plugs, if the block heater was used much they would crack.
That issue was dealt with for the 85 ,6 and 7 models.
The 87 models were best as they had several of the improvements that the 7.3 had, Rocker arms, oil cooler and the glow plug system.
the head bolts were a size bigger on the 7.3 engines, so the heads will not interchange, but the improved rockers will, as will the oil cooler and glow plug system.
It seemed like every 7.3 that I ever was around that wound up with cavitation problems, did so at 120,000 miles or less, if they lasted longer, it was rare for them to go bad. I always thought they had some bad castings.
The smaller head bolts never caused me any problems on the 6.9's but would if you added a turbo and didn't limit your boost to around 12 pounds, arp studs cured that problem, but were kind of spendy. The 7.3's would handle 20 pounds with stock bolts.
I had good luck with them, and when they came out they just had to be better than the 6.2 chebby, which was no chore.
I do prefer the cummins though for several reasons, just preffered the ford pickups back then, new ones are about all the same.
Quote from: starmac on February 12, 2019, 04:52:43 PM
I had good luck with my 6.9 and 7.3.
the 83 and 4 6.9's had a weak spot around the freeze plugs, if the block heater was used much they would crack.
That issue was dealt with for the 85 ,6 and 7 models.
The 87 models were best as they had several of the improvements that the 7.3 had, Rocker arms, oil cooler and the glow plug system.
the head bolts were a size bigger on the 7.3 engines, so the heads will not interchange, but the improved rockers will, as will the oil cooler and glow plug system.
It seemed like every 7.3 that I ever was around that wound up with cavitation problems, did so at 120,000 miles or less, if they lasted longer, it was rare for them to go bad. I always thought they had some bad castings.
The smaller head bolts never caused me any problems on the 6.9's but would if you added a turbo and didn't limit your boost to around 12 pounds, arp studs cured that problem, but were kind of spendy. The 7.3's would handle 20 pounds with stock bolts.
I had good luck with them, and when they came out they just had to be better than the 6.2 chebby, which was no chore.
I do prefer the cummins though for several reasons, just preffered the ford pickups back then, new ones are about all the same.
I lost a 2001 7.3 at 270k due to cavitation. It ate at the cylinder wall at the number 5 hole until it finally got so thin it cracked and filled the cylinder with antifreeze. When I started it, it busted the piston and bent the rod. I didnt know it happened when it it done it. I just noticed a loss of power and white smoke. Then my engine oil level started going up. If you left the radiator cap loose it would run like a top, tighten it down and it would run like crap I put another engine in it.
Quote from: mike_belben on February 12, 2019, 02:17:22 PM
I thought stanadyne made those fuel systems? I dunno, i had the displeasure of owning that one for maybe a year and wrote them off. No idi's or v8 diesels allowed in my life. 6BTs and DT466s and 13speeds i know are worth the overhaul. Can i find a 6lug budd 22.5 to save my life? No. No i cannot.
Stanadyne bought out Roosa. I am not fond of V 8 diesels myself,rather have inline with mechanical inj. pump but I could never afford what I really want and won't finance a pleasure vehicle.
Well, that last part i am familiar with.
I am fond of the one payment plan myself. I have financed plenty of big trucks, but sitting here thinking, I think the last pickup I financed was a new 79 F 250. 6911.00 tags, title and plates, wouldn't even make a down payment these days.
We can thank the federal reserve's " two percentent inflation TARGET" and other unsound monetary policies for that one.
The utility of a truck is unchanged from then to now and the need for a truck is probably even less than it was then for most regions of the country. The money value has changed, not the big mac or BTUs in gallon of fuel.
Mike that is one cause that had an impact on it, but there were several others, some by the government had major impacts on what was built.
One major factor was people changed, their wants changed. I watched it in the 70's when pickup prices doubled, folks that basically had little or no use for a pickup started buying them, soon and I mean within just a year or two it went to hey I have a pickup in the driveway, I might as well have a 4 wheel drive one, in case I ever get close to a curb or something, then they wanted more luxury, so they could do away with the family car. I can remember when the 4x4 craze hit, it was not farmers, ranchers, construction companies, oilfield companies, etc buying them, or even country folks, but it seemed like in the span of a year or three every other driveway in the cities had a 4x4 sitting in it. Then they started getting bigger, more power, and every year more luxurious, the basic utility work pickup has been phased out pretty much completely.
This is not just with pickups, the same thing has happened to everything from houses to lawnmowers, and bicycles and atv's to semi trucks and farm tractors.
Can you imagine if we had to, starting tomorrow, go back to a 2 wheel drive hot water six with a 3 on the tree pickup, with the only option being a heater.
It would be a major learning curve and many folks would not even be able to get it out of the driveway, till they learned and replaced a clutch or two. lol
I know I don't need everything they put in a new truck. Power doors and locks, a/c I like but most of the luxury items are just things that get broke or ratted out right away on a working truck. Shoots, I can't even seem to keep those luxury fenders on my dually!😁
In 08 my son was in dire need of a newer dependable pickup, so we went looking for a used one. It seemed like everything we found that was what he wanted was in the 19 to 20 thousand range with over 100,000 miles.
I told him let's just get you a new one, so started shopping with several dealers, 2 or 3 days later I had several prices for the same pickup and the local dealer said he would match it, come on down. when we were there a few days before he tried hard to get me to trade my old, dually in, that we were driving, told him he could forget that idea, while we were test driving pickups, he kept turning around and talking to me in the back seat explaining how nice this option or that was, until I finally told him he had better be talking to my son if he wanted to make a sell at all.
Well it was 65 miles down to the dealer, so I told him to have the paper work ready when we got there, we got there and he said no way could he match that price, and the other dealer couldn't sell it for that either and wanted to see the spec sheet. I told him he had exactly 30 minutes to match the deal and my signature on the paper, it was 100 miles the other direction to the other dealer and we were driving a pickup home today. After studying it for a while, he said it was not the same specs. I argued the point and he pointed out that the one at the other dealer did not have an easy lift tailgate. I told him that I figured if that 18 year old 200 pound boy couldn't lift a tailgate, he didn't need to be driving period.
We left and he was on the phone with my son before we got 2 blocks away wanting us to come back, my son told him he doubted if he could sell me one if he knocked a thousand or two off, and we were now in a hurry to get to the other dealer.
The fool gambled and lost.
Everything I have is stick shift. I wonder if the time has come when I can leave the key in the ignition like the old days.
I often wonder what some of these new trucks would be like with a stick.
I learned to drive on a 78 Chevy with 3 on the tree.
When the shifting linkage didn't lock up😁
I well remember those days, I used to travel 610 loop around Houston daily, it was rare you didn't see at least one pickup running wrapped out, hung in second gear.
I changed out quite a few of those shift tubes back then too.
My next truck will be an auto. I've always had manuals, for the fuel mileage and reliability. Well, my 6 speed nv5600 blew a seal and pumped all the oil into the transfer case, and locked up the back wheels (in heavy 60 mph traffic) I was dead in the water. It all happened in th icourse of a 100 mile trip, I never knew I had a problem until she locked up. That repair was $5300 iirc, so the reliability and cost argument kinda went out the window at that point. The newer Dodge Cummins are actually derated with a manual, the autos they have behind them are standing up to the torque better.
I only have a 1/2 ton GMC left 2007
Pulls my 10,00lb dump
One trans rebuild $2,800
5.3 with 3/4 ton rear springs 4.10 rear gear
I like this engine better than the 6.o
barbender (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1286)
When I build a NV4500 4X4, I always drill a 1/8" hole in the bottom of the adapter (between the trans. & transfer case) above the rear mount. WHEN the trans. seal goes south,
the oil will end up on the tailgate, looks like the tailgate has chicken pox. That gives you time to crawl under and see whats going on before you get the 5K$ supprize !
UN
UN Hooker, that sounds like a very good idea! My 97 has a NV4500, that granny went to 297K and the countershaft 5th gear retainer pushed off and caused a bit of drama. That truck is pretty rusted out, I don't know if it's worth the effort but I bought the parts so I'll probably cobble it back together.
Quote from: moodnacreek on February 13, 2019, 06:34:55 PM
Everything I have is stick shift. I wonder if the time has come when I can leave the key in the ignition like the old days.
It's getting pretty close. I bet none of the younger guys at the fire dept can drive a stick. The first firetruck I drove was a 1974 Ford. Had to double clutch it. I love my automatics, but it sure would be fun to drive my truck with a 6 speed manual. 440 horsepower turbo diesel and a clutch. Alas, I will just keep driving my automatic and drinking coffee while I start from a stoplight.
while picking up parts at the ford dealer i asked the service manager what he had for top secret imfo on the 7.3. he did go to a class on it no hp numbers yet. it will be the most hp of any gas motor. he was told a ;little less power than a 6.7 and a little less fuel mileage. i guess time will tell. and that the v10 is going away