I have the 999cc Koehler engine and the starter was acting up the other day. After lunch I just got her running and left it running for the rest of the day to finnish the job.
I contacted WM as the engine is still under warranty andI was sent to the Koehler dealer network,
3 dealers for Koehler had 2-3 week wait before they could look at the machine. Next I called Koehler rep in Canada and convinced them to send me a starter as us Sawmill owners are used to fixing everything ourselves. I would have to pay up front for the starter and be reimbursed once I returned the dead stater. Great , here is my VISA # send it to me. Ahhhhhh lets see he says, nope we don't have one they are on back order. Well 2-3 weeks is half the sawing season in the Great White North, so I called Brian at WM Canada and he said he would do some poking . Well the next day Brian calls, Friday morning, and they have found a starter in Montreal and will have it Tuesday morning.
Not bad.
Customer service is why I stayed with WM for the new mill and they come through again.
I am not impressed that the starter quite after only 130hrs on the new mill.
I maybe start and stop the engine 20-30 times in a day, keep the hrs down and save fuel
I have always shut the engine when I am moving lumber or logs around the mill. I only start the engine when it is time to lift the log on.
How many of you shut down your engine during the day?
Interesting question, following
That is far more starts than it was designed for, usually they see 20% of that at the most mowing lawns. Good on Kohler and WM for coming through but they may not be so accomodating if it happens again so best to order a spare.
I would expect thousands of starts on a starter. The Kawasaki's in the Turf Tigers get started 15-20 times a day. The bigger concern is the lack of availability.
I know I don't start and stop my engine that much. I don't know if those are a weak starter anyhow, I rented a firewood processor that had that same engine once. Yep, I got to replace that starter while I had it- actually I took it off and brought it to a rebuild shop.
I will say that's a lot of start cycles in a day, but Kohler should take that into consideration given the use of the machine and honestly, there is no reason two multi million, if not billion dollar companies don't have spare parts for a brand new machine.
I will shut off the mill if it's going to idle for 5 minutes or more, otherwise it shuts off at lunch and band changes. I think the airflow running over the engine, and in the case of the 70 the oil through the turbo, cooling everything down is well worth the fuel consumed.
I shut mine off and restart it between every log sawed when I am sawing alone and nearly as much when sawing for a customer. Never heard I was supposed to do otherwise.
I typically won't shut mine down but a few times a day, basically when my log deck is empty and I need to reload it with another whack of logs, or lunch time, or when the UPS guy shows up, or stuff like that.
I don't think there is much wear at idle, the oil is under pressure and lubricating, the engine is cool, etc. about the only thing I worry about is the main drive belt slowly ticking over, but that isn't a big deal.
A story on starters. My Polaris starter died and a new one from the dealer cost $650. Stupid ridiculous amount. So I started on the internet and found it was the exact same starter used in Cub Cadet and John Deere mowers. Cub had the starter listed at $550 and Deere had it listed at $350. Same exact starter. I went online and Amazon had several clones for $65. So I drove down the street and and the starter rebuild shop had a better one, with warranty, for $150. It's been running for years.
Quote from: Dave Shepard on July 15, 2019, 09:15:08 PM
I would expect thousands of starts on a starter. The Kawasaki's in the Turf Tigers get started 15-20 times a day. The bigger concern is the lack of availability.
I agree, having led landscaping crews while in graduate school (wasn't cheap) we would do sometimes 10 lawns a day and not uncommon to start a couple of times/lawn. We never lost a starter. I'd be very concerned that such a major component wasn't stocked.
Hello,
I am not sure. What happened to the starter motor? Do you think it was a manufacture defect or was there a cause for the failure? We are a Kohler dealer and repair many types of lawn equipment. The starter is not a common failure with the Wood Mizer or on lawn equipment. Would like to know more.
We had a 38 hp Kohler customer call this spring. He had towed his mill in a snowy mess and washed the engine at a car wash. The next day the starter would not work. The bendix rusted to the armature from the salt. Not saying you did this or anything like that. Just trying to see what may have been the cause of the failure.
Thanks
Marty
Quote from: MartyParsons on July 16, 2019, 07:55:56 AM
Hello,
I am not sure. What happened to the starter motor? Do you think it was a manufacture defect or was there a cause for the failure? We are a Kohler dealer and repair many types of lawn equipment. The starter is not a common failure with the Wood Mizer or on lawn equipment. Would like to know more.
We had a 38 hp Kohler customer call this spring. He had towed his mill in a snowy mess and washed the engine at a car wash. The next day the starter would not work. The bendix rusted to the armature from the salt. Not saying you did this or anything like that. Just trying to see what may have been the cause of the failure.
Thanks
Marty
Interesting, I have towed my mill on the crappy roads, a couple of times since new. I took possesion in early November, I do not like to use the mill when the roads are snowy or salty, but had no choice this winter. I picked a dry road day to move the mill, both times, but liquid calcium is used on the roads up here and of course it is put down before the storms hit. I also took it to the car wash to clean the salt off of it. I also travel with the engine cover on during bad weather.
I will be changing out the starter this afternoon and sending it back. Hopefully we find out why.
My concern was the lack of availability. I also find it interesting that once WM became involved they found a starter but not when the average guy calls. I am under warranty and feel I should just as important as WM to get my equipment back running especially a new motor. That is why I finally bought the new mill to cut down on my downtime, especially as I am mobile so much.
Quote from: sawguy21 on July 15, 2019, 09:01:45 PM
That is far more starts than it was designed for, usually they see 20% of that at the most mowing lawns. Good on Kohler and WM for coming through but they may not be so accomodating if it happens again so best to order a spare.
I am quite glad Brian at WM figured out how to find me a new starter,
I have troubles keeping a $400 part as a spare on a new engine. I do have spare belts, solenoids, bearings.
I also was told that maybe i should keep a new board for simple setworks, i'm still debating that as it is a $400 part.
Quote from: Dave Shepard on July 15, 2019, 09:15:08 PM
I would expect thousands of starts on a starter. The Kawasaki's in the Turf Tigers get started 15-20 times a day. The bigger concern is the lack of availability.
I agree Dave and Nativewolf, The lack of availability of starter's on a current engine was my concern. Back order means they are having troubles, or they break down so little that they do not keep many in stock in the great white north
YH , I might start leaving the mill running a bit more, especially if I am down for only few minutes, a big engine might need a bit more cooling with the airflow thru it. The old 1993 onan was quite happy having a rest ;D
Just to interject a thought ,as rule everything ordered by way of a dealer will be extremely high in price .I just priced various starters for Kohler which most likely was "after market " in the price range of under $100 .
Two, more times than not a starter can be repaired .Most modern units have permanent magnet fields and likely the brush assembly got burn out which is relatively inexpensive .I've never had a Kohler starter fail but I've repaired a lot of Briggs starters with good luck -----just a thought----
If you have a model number of the engine the company I use is MFG supply in Wisconsin which so far has worked out well .There are others also
I would also expect thousands of starts on a Kohler starter motor. Over many years of being a Kohler servicing dealer, I sold very, very few Kohler starter motors.
Typically starter motors are killed by excessive cranking causing overheating, or low voltage at the starter.
Excessive cranking times are usually related to engine quality and tune condition, poor fuel etc.
Low voltage at the starter is usually caused by bad wiring connections, whether at wire connection points, grounds, defective solenoid or poor battery condition.
EDIT :: I normally work by myself, so I usually stop the motor between logs.
Quote from: YellowHammer on July 15, 2019, 11:41:47 PMSo I drove down the street and and the starter rebuild shop had a better one, with warranty, for $150.
Local starter repair shops are a great resource. Every one I've been in has a similar personality. Dirty and disorganized (seemingly) but knowledgeable and effective. I've always gotten good results. Even if you're getting warranty replacement or after-market starters, it's good to have a starter shop in your rolodex.
I work by myself a lot of times so 15-20 starts during a day is reasonable for me.
still on my original starter on a 06 LT40hyd. but mine is a 28 hp gasser.
Imagine the wear and tear on starters on the increasing number of cars that shut off at every traffic light! They start hundreds of times some days.
In my opinion those so called "hybreds " are more hype and hoopla than practical .While they claim a fuel savings they more than eat up those savings in repair parts and labor just to keep them running .Just another well intended gimmick that doesn't work well .Besides all that a modern fuel injected engine doesn't use that much fuel at idle conditions .Plus the fact running an engine is not nearly as hard on it as starting it up .
My opinion, but I think you guys that are shutting them off that many times during a day aren't saving anything and possibly shortening engine lifespan. My Lombardini engine has a warning on it to let it warm up at least 2 minutes, and also let it idle for 2 minutes after running under a load. Especially on a diesel, you don't want to shut them down hot when they were just being worked! A lot of older diesels would reward you with blown head gaskets for that kind of activity, it's also bad for turbos. All that said, I only shut mine down if it's going to sit at least 10-15 minutes.
Not a starter but when I went to the local starter repair shop with the up down motor from my lt30 they told me it would be better to to buy the new motor from woodmizer than have them repair it when I told them the price from woodmizer.
I have had many air cooled engine starters apart, they cannot be compared to the one in yer pick um up truck. The armature windings are relatively light and bushings not bearings are small to cut costs. I don't have a mill but would leave the engine running except for breaks and maintenance, frequent starts and stops are harder on it and waste fuel.
Many components like starters are now manufactured overseas and supply is a real problem, Kohler and others often can't get enough for production runs let alone the service part chain. They will often have two or three different suppliers which gets challenging when trying to source repair parts.
I start and stop mine quite bit on the LT15 (Kohler 19hp gas). I have the mill inside. Even though we open the overhead quite a bit, when I have to top to turn the log or pull flitches off etc, I shut it off. I don't want it to sit running while I'm messing around. Not to save fuel, but to keep the fumes down. So I start and stop a number of times in a log.
The Kawasaki on the mower recommends reducing engine speed down before shutting down.
| CAUTION |
| Engine damage can occur from run-on or after-burning if engine is stopped suddenly from high speed loaded operation. Reduce engine speed to idle for one minute before shutting engine off. |
I wonder if Kohler has any recommendations in their manual?
And don't forget the switch, Had my switch stuck and when the cat started and the starter was still on the flywheel, It was not good. Then one time the key switch would be loose on the inside and bump the starter on and off. While I was cutting wood. ::) That time I went threw 3 starters till I figured it out,
Now the mill gets a new switch every other year.
Good luck.
The starter is not dead 8)
I have been busy with the grand children visiting, but I finnally got around to posting this morning.
The new starter arrived and with it some instructions.
Due to the high volume of starter faiures, please perform the following tests.
1- test the battery for 12.4 volts. Check I have 12.6 volts
2- Hook up the back of the starter and crank starter testing voltage
Well as I moved wires to get to the back of the starter and a blue wire that has a clip fell off the solenoid. I pushed it back on and boom she fired right up. It obviously was not on there secure enough, but held on by the plastic.
Lesson- check all connections physically
I was out in the boat 2 days ago and it has been giving us trouble, surging , cutting out, electrical in nature.
I pushed and pulled all th connections I could get at. There is a lead off of a sensor on the bottom of the fuel filter, i wiggled it, boom fired right up. I then took the pliers and squezed the clip and the motor is running just fine. The grand children are reall happy 8)
Will you send the replacement back or buy it?
When you are dealing with low voltage and especially push type connectors it doesn't take much corrosion to make them non functional .It might not be a bad idea if these connections prove to be a problem to clean them and use something like T and B copper cote or some other conductive grease .
Quote from: Al_Smith on July 25, 2019, 10:15:12 AM
When you are dealing with low voltage and especially push type connectors it doesn't take much corrosion to make them non functional .It might not be a bad idea if these connections prove to be a problem to clean them and use something like T and B copper cote or some other conductive grease .
Good advice. I use Permatex Copper Anti-Seize on any suspect electrical connections and all battery posts.
Quote from: LeeB on July 25, 2019, 09:27:40 AM
Will you send the replacement back or buy it?
I wil keep it for 2-3 weeks as I saw at home to ensure that was the real problem.
> keep the hrs down and save fuel
... and use-up the starter.
20/30 times a day?
I think the design spec is more like 20 / 30 starts a month.
> I wonder if Kohler has any recommendations in their manual?
Yes:
Stopping
1. If possible, remove load by disengaging all PTO driven attachments.
2. Position throttle control between half and full throttle; stop engine.
http://resources.kohler.com/power/kohler/enginesUS/pdf/24_590_54_EN.pdf (http://resources.kohler.com/power/kohler/enginesUS/pdf/24_590_54_EN.pdf)
I have 2 throttle positions: low and high. No way to position between them, so I always stop on low.
Quote from: esteadle on July 30, 2019, 07:54:20 PM
> keep the hrs down and save fuel
... and use-up the starter.
20/30 times a day?
I think the design spec is more like 20 / 30 starts a month.
I would disagree with 20-30 starts a month. That is 1 start a day? If I know I will be shut down for 5-10 mins or more, why keep it running. I can do with out the noise and save some fuel.
Most likely, I start my engine at least a dozen times a day whenever I'm sawing!