So I have my 2 50cc Poulan Pro's which I really like and plan to keep running most of the time right now but I would like a bigger saw.
I'd like something that'll run a 28-30" bar with some authority. My expected uses for this saw would be milling (I know a bandsaw is a better option but it's not in the cards for a few reasons right now) and also to fell and buck larger diameter trees. At the moment I'll mainly be using it for the occasional weekend milling job but I expect/hope I'll be using it for bucking in the near future. I don't forsee using the saw in cold weather so a heated bar doesn't seem necessary to me.
I had been planning to stay with Husqvarna as that's who makes the Poulans but @Nebraska (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=45256) suggested I look at the Dolmar/Makitas and after perusing their website I'm interested in those. Right now one of the biggest sellers for the Makitas in my mind is they appear to use the same 3/8 .050 72L chains my Poulans use so I could make new chains for all 3 saws from the same roll thus simplifying logistics for me.
At the moment I'm not set on any one saw or brand but for the above stated logistics reason I'm strongly leaning toward one of the Makita 70-80cc saws.
I tend to try to fix and maintain my own equipment so having a dealer close to me isn't as important.
While I want to spend as little as possible I know you get what you pay for and I believe in the "Buy Once, Cry Once" mentality on this purchase so I'm willing to spend what I need to. I'm expecting to spend between $800-$1000.
Thanks all for chiming in,
Brandon
For buying new, you may want to look at the echo 800P. Bigger is better for milling, and with your stated bar sizes, I'd consider 80cc the minimum you'd want regardless of brand.
Another vote for a Echo 800p, lots of torque which should suit milling fine. A Makita 80 cc should be a couple pounds lighter if your going to use it for firewood a lot. Steve
I've never milled with a chainsaw, but from what I've seen on here guys that are serious about it are using a Husky 395XP or a Stihl 660 at a minimum. I'd only consider a smaller saw if it was only going to be one or two logs.
Quote from: barbender on September 12, 2019, 03:35:58 PM
I've never milled with a chainsaw, but from what I've seen on here guys that are serious about it are using a Husky 395XP or a Stihl 660 at a minimum. I'd only consider a smaller saw if it was only going to be one or two logs.
I only expect to do a few logs here and there for my personal use.
Because I don't have the equipment to move huge logs I see 24" dia as the biggest and at that size 3-4' in length. Most will be smaller in diameter. I'd imagine it seems kinda silly or pointless for most but it'll work for what I want to do with the wood.
Brandon
So far I'm leaning toward the Echo. At 2lbs more it'd be unpleasant to carry through the woods but as I expect to mainly do small scale milling and the occasional bucking job I think I can handle it.
Brandon
Quote from: ManjiSann on September 12, 2019, 03:39:49 PMI'd imagine it seems kinda silly or pointless for most but it'll work for what I want to do with the wood.
Brandon
Doesn't sound silly to me. I bought a 36" Granberg, and a 661cm just to see what it was like, with my only firm goal being making some trailer boards. So far, I've only made some 2" ash planks just to get used to the system. Have a bit more ash to do, and I'll make some thinner boards to make a half door for my kitchen. Objectively, I could buy a door and trailer boards for far less than the gear cost, but it's fun, and I did it myself. Money well spent imo.
395 xp Husqvarna
Maybe one question I should ask is why is milling/ripping so hard on chainsaws? Is it because it's usually one continuous cut for long distance vs a shorter cut in a cross cut (ie a 4' run in a rip vs say a 2' run in a cross cut?)
Brandon
You like to tinker. Maybe you should try one of the Holzfforma clones of ms660. 90cc for 330$. A few people on here have checked them out. I don't recall the details. M.huztl.net
Having just bought a chainsaw mill myself (Granberg - 36" C3, and a Stihl MS661) I'd recommend you buy the mill you want FIRST, then buying the chainsaw that will fit and work with it.
Chainsaw milling is NOT just attaching a frame to your saw and cutting up logs lengthwise. It is a delicate engineering balancing act to match up and manage power, heat buildup, kerf, and width of cut.
Chainsaws are designed to very tight specs and requirements these days -- around all of those parameters. The multitude of chain pitches (3/8, .375, .404), Gauges (.050, .063), bar lengths, drive sockets, drive link counts, and horsepower (and weight) will be different for every single saw you consider.
Most of the big width mills at Granberg, for example, will require a saw with a .404 pitch chain, and matching drive sprocket. If you buy a 3/8" pitch saw, your drive sprocket will need to be changed to drive a .404 pitch chain. When you do that, you will no longer match the power curve design of the powerhead that you selected and you may not have the torque you need to pull that chain through your width.
For example, the difference between a Stihl 880 (.404 pitch) and a Stihl 661 (3/8 pitch) is how fast the drive sprocket turns and how much Torque is applied to drive that chain. The 661 revs higher but has less power and torque, and so it tends to "pulse" through a cut. The 880 has gobs of torque, but can't move the chain very fast, and so it tends to "lug" through a cut.
So with that, let's ask... what Chainsaw mill do you think you'll buy?
Quote from: btulloh on September 12, 2019, 04:57:06 PM
You like to tinker. Maybe you should try one of the Holzfforma clones of ms660. 90cc for 330$. A few people on here have checked them out. I don't recall the details. M.huztl.net
Devil With The Blue Dress On! First Look At the Holzfforma G660, ( Remember That Song?) - YouTube (https://youtu.be/4G7CmlIQy1c)
I was going to weld up something similar to the Granberg Alaskan mill.
Brandon
I don't think what you want to do is silly at all (not that it would matter if I did!). I guess what I'm trying to say is sometimes when you try to get something that is good at too many things, it ends up doing none of them very well. If it's a small amount of milling, I don't see why an 80cc saw wouldn't work. And again, I've never milled any lumber with a chainsaw myself so take what I have to say with a large grain of salt. I've ripped a few whole 40' long logs in half with a saw before for sills on a log house, and I did that with a 65cc saw and it worked fine. I'll let the guys with personal experience comment on why bigger is better for milling.
A BIG question you have to answer first is what brand has a great dealer close to you who knows how to service your saw?
That answer is worth much more than a 2 lb weight advantage or 1/4 claimed HP bump.
I became a Husky guy when my local Stihl dealer kept causing me issues when he couldn't fix a 660. Found a Husky dealer who is beyond phenomenal from a customer service perspective and makes the additional 30 minute drive worth every second.
@Southside (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24297) is right about the dealer thing, I don't have a "good husky dealer" close a big shop or two in Omaha don't want to go there for service. Stihl dealership is closer and they are ok but in a pseudo big box hardware chainstore it's still "city". Dolmar dealer is same amount of time away from home in a town of 500 ish, he fixes lawnmowers, all sorts of equipment, skidsteers, vehicles not much he won't try. He knows me by name, I work on his secretary's animals.
He has this sawdust bug, a bunch of wood stickered and stacked in a special loft upstairs in his shop. He milled it himself with a woodmizer he overhauled for a fellow a couple towns over.
I have had experience with a husky 365 clone a friend has, works fine he had a couple minor quirks at the begining, but it runs well. He worked at small engine shop in high school and is really handy.
Right now the saws I grab the most are two cub cadet commercials I picked up really reasonable second hand they seem as nimble as my 5100 Dolmar, which reminds me I need to run up to "Mel's" and get it , I had it worked on.
Southside makes a good point. I'll have to start looking into what dealers are around and how good they are. I tend to do a lot of servicing myself but there's always that one part that is only available to dealers so it's good to know where a good one is.
I have plenty of time to decide which saw to get as I will be pinching pennies to get it and I just found out one of the sources of income may have temporarily dried up. Not a big deal just means the "fun money" may be a bit more limited than I'd thought. So until then I'll have to enjoy learning on the 2 saws I already have.
Thanks,
Brandon
In an unexpected twist an Echo 800p is in the local paper for a VERY good price and I'm trying to see if I can go check it out. Seller claims its in like new condition...
Assuming it isn't sold by the time I can go look at it what should I be looking for?
Figured I'd take an elm log I just picked up with to test it in the cut.
Remove the muffler and check piston and walls for scoring?
I may have a compression tester still, assuming it'd fit I could try that but it's not exactly top of the line so I'm not sure if it's worth it or not.
For the most part if she fires up and runs and will cut is that usually a decent indicator of being in good shape?
Trying not to get too excited but dang it'd sure be cool if I could post a pic of a new chainsaw in the stables 8)
Brandon
If I was selling a saw I wouldn't be too keen on someone trying to pull the muffler off. I'd let them do a compression test though.
I've used a husqvarna 395xp for milling in the past and it worked well, and I've used a 372xp in desperation which was very slow. In my opinion a 70cc saw would be the absolute minimum. the 800p looks to be a decent saw and it has gotten good reviews. If it fits your budget, I'd say go for it!
Levi
I'm not really good at analyzing mechanics, especially on the fly. What /I/ would do(certainly less than ideal) is a visual inspection, pull it over, first without decomp, then again with to get an idea of compression, then do a cut test, hopefully in something big enough to bury the bar. If it seems decent, and the price is right, buy it.
The ad is asking $400 for it. The seller replied to my first text confirming it is the 800p but hasn't responded to my attempt to set up a meeting. I'm hoping it's just they are at work and have a job that doesn't allow phone useage.
Fingers still crossed it will pan out
Brandon
Good luck! At that price, simply running would probably be enough for me to buy it. That's less than half the price new.
Hopefully the next reply you get isn't along the lines of "I am in the miletare and on a secret misseon, the saw is at my manchen in Tenisee, I will currier it to you as soon as you kindly deposit the funds".
I just picked myself up a Husky 390xp at our logging show, I've been wanting one for a long time. Haven't even tried it out yet- after I get done writing this I'm going out to put the bar on, put gas and bar oil in it, and find something large to cut with it😁 The outfit I got it from always has excellent pricing on Husky and Stihl saws. I got this one for $936 out the door, with a 24" bar. They also had a 395xp for $976, the new 572xp's were $800. Around $200 cheaper across the board then the local dealers. If it was just a $50 difference I would've went local, but I do most all of my saw maintenance and repair myself (especially on this big glorious non-autotune beast😁).
When I'm looking at used saws, the first thing I go over is appearance. If it looks like it's been sitting in the back of a pickup for the last 5 years, it gives you a decent idea of how much the parts you can't see have been cared for. Watch for things like a burned bar with no paint on it, that will give you a clue that it's been worked hard with a dull chain- that's really hard on the engine. Then pull it over slow to feel the compression. Basically if it looks like it's been trashed I'm no longer interested anyways. If it still looks decent, then I'm just feeling the compression and firing it up to make sure it runs right. You don't want to end up with a shiny saw that's been straight gassed, either. If it doesn't run right, sellers will often try to minimize that ("I'm sure it's just a blah blah blah, it's an easy fix") if it's so easy why didn't you fix it before you put it up for sale? If it runs great, and the price is right, then buy it up. If something isn't right my price goes way down, if I even want it. You're taking a risk that throwing $50 or $100 at it won't fix it, then what? Buying a used saw that isn't right doesn't pay, especially if you're not doing the work on it yourself (and there's a value on your time, too). A used saw that you got for half of new turns into a real sour deal if it starts approaching the price of new if you have to pay someone else to fix it.
I've called and left a message, called again and no response. At this point a wee bit of me is hopeful there's a really good reason but that part is kinda getting smaller. There's always a chance it'll still work out but my experience is if after 8 hours they haven't responded it's usually not going to happen.
@lxskllr (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=39990) I know! There was a Husky 395 (I think, it was one of the big boys) for sale for $500 not to long ago. Wish it was up now as I'd figure out how to pay for it!
@southside
hahah I was waiting for something like that as it seemed too good to be true. I also like the one "I'm currently on an oil platform in the pacific with no internet access so please contact my broker at imafraudster@slimebag.com
@barbender (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1286)
Nice find!
My plan is to do my own maintenance on my machines so I'm willing to risk a bit on a saw that's half priced but if as you say my half priced saw starts approaching the cost of a new one it'd be pretty sour.
I almost got a Husky 50 for $10, non runner but for that price it would have been a great chance to tinker and learn. Sadly I was second in line and #1 took it.
Bit of a bummer day in the deals department for me 0/2 :(
Brandon
Craigslist? I've had a 0% success rate trying to buy anything from there. Nobody returns messages, ad stays up, and in one case, the price dropped to the amount I offered via text on the first ad :^S Bunch of flakes. I don't need to make time for that nonsense.
Just keep in mind that if you pick up an auto tune type of saw - you won't be doing much by yourself on it.
@lxskllr (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=39990)
No it's KSL.com.
It's a local paper that was here before Craigslist and so has a pretty big following in my local area.
I've scored some pretty sweet deals off it in the past, got a nice nearly new Craftsman lawn mower for $50 and a really nice 2 stage snow blower for $100. Got both my Poulan chainsaws off KSL as well. It is doable.
It sucks when you get the message that someone else already got the item but at least you KNOW it's not there any more. But like you said, it's weird when contact breaks off or there's no contact and yet the ad stays up... reminds me of some of my internet dating experiences :o :o
@Southside (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=24297)
The Echo site doesn't say anything about whether it's autotune or not... I'm guessing not? I'd imagine with that being the new flavor of tech if it had it they would point it out.
Well I guess the search continues. As my wife said, it just means there's something else better waiting for me 8)
Brandon
AFAIK, only Stihl(Mtronic) and Husqvarna(autotune) have computer controlled saws. IME, they work well, but when they don't, it'll require the help of a dealer. They have the software that can interface with them. I'm conflicted. I enjoy just pulling a cord, and having a saw run perfectly. I want to cut wood, not monkey around with carburetors, but I don't like being locked out of a system, and having to rely on someone else. That's anticonsumer behavior. Done right, the saws should have a usb port, and software should be available for purchase. Alternatively, they should come with an api so others can develop software for it.
We will never see the mfg allow access to the owner. I was talking about this issue with my hired guy earlier today when we got done. Ford wanted $125 for a diagnostic test on a vehicle still under warranty, said the testing was not part of the coverage, eventually they ate it, but we got to talking about how all these vehicles have internet and blue tooth today, there is zero reason you can not have a OBD type app on your phone and let the truck communicate the issue to the phone with no physical interface required. It could even then send the info to the repair shop so they know what is coming in, what parts are needed, etc. But that would eliminate a whole lot of annual $5K software subscriptions from being sold to the dealers and repair shops, just makes too much sense.
From my own experiences the level of computer control in equipment has exceeded the capacity and reliability of the systems being installed that are needed to run the system. Basic throttle body, EFI stuff is quite reliable in engines, but whole systems where multiple ECU's communicate to each other in industrial field equipment that now fly by wire don't stand up to the conditions they are exposed to day in and day out. I don't want to bad mouth anyone here but I have one complicated piece of equipment that has rather frequent computer issues and it is a real hassle, not to mention a disappointment given the cost of this stuff today.
Southside, the non-autotune carb was certainly a factor in the purchase of this 390. It's not so much that I'm scared of the technology (I have an M-tronic Stihl ms261 that I like a LOT). If I went with an Auto-tune I probably would've stuck with the local dealer since there's a good chance I would've had to visit to get plugged into their computer software.
Not to get off the subject, but speaking to Southside's ODB2 rant: There are a couple nifty OBD2 / Bluetooth readers out there that communicate with a phone app. The one I have works pretty well and is reasonably priced. Your point is valid that the capability could be built-in and provide comprehensive info, but the auto dealer service game wouldn't like that.
Maybe some day there'll be something the owners can get for the autotune saws, but for now we're stuck. So far I'm liking the m-tronic, but I don't like the idea that I'm closed out from dealing with the saw myself.
OBD2 / Bluetooth device: OBDLink MX+ (https://smile.amazon.com/OBDLink-Bluetooth-Professional-Grade-Diagnostic-Performance/dp/B07JFRFJG6/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=obd2+bluetooth&qid=1568549856&s=gateway&sr=8-5)
Now they need to make one for m-tronic saws.
I think this is the one I use...
https://www.amazon.com/BAFX-Products-Wireless-Bluetooth-Diagnostic/dp/B005NLQAHS/ref=pd_cp_263_3?pd_rd_w=KSLdP&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=8V12ZARGR27PB5WH6QPY&pd_rd_r=b13d04c2-59d3-466f-a2dd-12694c0ca8de&pd_rd_wg=2zcJu&pd_rd_i=B005NLQAHS&psc=1&refRID=8V12ZARGR27PB5WH6QPY
and this software for my android...
AndrOBD | F-Droid - Free and Open Source Android App Repository (https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.fr3ts0n.ecu.gui.androbd/)
I use it more than I should. My truck's getting worn out, and it gets temporary glitches that sometimes affect operation. Clearing the fault codes fixes it up for a couple months til I need to do it again :^D
There should definitely be something similar for the saw. It should be illegal to sell a tool, and withhold the information it takes to fix it.
If we don't buy the electronicly controlled stuff they won't sell it. I swear I saw a 1/4 in 18 volt impact driver that came with some
Controlling phone app. I guess if you hire millenials to help they ...... ok off that rant...... (insert hand held electronic device comment).... as i sit on this tablet on Sunday morning before I go into the office a bit ... I just had a mental picture of the Terminator movie series machines taking over and I want to think for myself not being directed, persuaded electronically. I'm blessed to be able to hear well enough I can listen to the motor and turn the little screws myself. Buy old and fix, to a point.
Why do you need to reinvent the wheel. New saws aren't much different than the old blue homelike xl Dad taught me to run when I was twelve, at least in function.... safety we are better today, weight and balance are better, durability maybe, vibration control definitely. Keep looking a good saw or six will show up, this thread poked a little sore spot mostly related to vehicle electronics.
In an effort to not leave a thread hanging for future readers, here's the link to the thread of which saw I actually bought 8) 8)
http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=107802.0 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=107802.0)
Check it out if you're curious how the ride goes
Brandon