Good morning,
I would like to ask a question for the folks in the log truck industry. I have been debating back and forth if this is a business venture worth entering. I don't have any background in logging or truck driving. However, I feel that this is something that genuinely interests me because I love trucks and driving and love the forestry aspect of things as well. My ultimate goal is to operate a single O/O log truck in the PNW. So, my question is in two parts:
Is this a business worth entering? If so, I would like advice from O/O's who have been doing things for some time as to what would be a good start to learning the driving side of things and how to learn the business side and how to ultimately be successful in this particular industry?
Thank you for all the feedback!!
I would suggest as a starting point you find an O/O near you and ask if you can ride shotgun for a few days to get a feeling for what it's really like. Then begin to assess your present skill and financial level to that which you can see first hand is needed for the job and you will have a good idea of what you are up against.
Of all of the places to learn to not only drive truck, but also run a business, I would rate the woods as probably the hardest. But, some people have got into the business and made out well, because they didn't know any better🤷🏽♂️
Are you married ? Might not be after you live in the truck 20hrs a day 😂 like they both said, find someone to ride with for a while, see what your getting into long before you jump.
No I'm not married. Im single no kids. When my dad started his business he worked 7 days a week 12 to 14 hours a day.
What the others said. Log hauling is definitely not an easy way to make a living, it involves long hours of hard work. At one time I considered making my living at it, got my cdl learners permit and did the air course. My buddy was making what to me looked like good money but after getting up at 3 to hit the bush, putting in 12 hours hauling then spending evenings and weeknds maintaining the truck it didn't look quite so appealing. It can be rewarding, lots of guys wouldn't do anything else, but it is a lifestyle not a job. Forget having a girlfriend. ;D
It's been a few years but a customer of mine owned a small fleet of OTR Fed-Ex tractors as he was a contractor for them. Each year Keith would go to some tractor trailer high end competition in Oklahoma (I think that's where it was) and do things like compete in backing up doubles, the man could drive. Well he was in our yard and trying to get onto a door for a load of bagged shavings, took several times and could not get the trailer onto the door. Half joking I asked him if he needed me to spot the trailer and he said without lines he could not back up - our yard was gravel, well gravel and mud most of the time, and actually long enough and flat that a truck could front up to the door and get straight, which is not always the case at a log landing. Kinda made me realize there is a difference between a guy who drives a truck and one who drives a truck in the woods.
I believe it is definitely a lifestyle and not just a job. So is it safe to say I shouldn't even bother driving a regular truck on paved roads as gravel/dirt driving is a different animal? 😁
What part of the PNW? Can you get up early reliably? Do you already have a CDL?
It's a completely different life style being in the industry to say the least, I know out here in NW Oregon the guys start loading at 130 to 2 depending on how far out from the mill they are as well as how many trucks they have to load out. Off highway driving is pretty rough on a truck especially running up to the tower jobs the road can be tight curvy and one wrong move you could be going for your last ride.
Skeans and I both operate out of the PNW. I would say if you're willing to put in the hours and do basic maintenance and mechanical work you can make it for sure. Area and setup are important. Some companies are moving to hourly which helps, but as an OO you're on your own. A younger fella about 28 got into trucking a few years ago and he's making a solid living. Bought a new truck even. Gotta be willing to chase the work though.
Quote from: quilbilly on October 25, 2019, 10:26:42 PM
Skeans and I both operate out of the PNW. I would say if you're willing to put in the hours and do basic maintenance and mechanical work you can make it for sure. Area and setup are important. Some companies are moving to hourly which helps, but as an OO you're on your own. A younger fella about 28 got into trucking a few years ago and he's making a solid living. Bought a new truck even. Gotta be willing to chase the work though.
I would be willing to relocate to anywhere pretty much there is work. Do you mean setup as in the type of truck used?
Quote from: Skeans1 on October 25, 2019, 08:56:52 PM
What part of the PNW? Can you get up early reliably? Do you already have a CDL?
It's a completely different life style being in the industry to say the least, I know out here in NW Oregon the guys start loading at 130 to 2 depending on how far out from the mill they are as well as how many trucks they have to load out. Off highway driving is pretty rough on a truck especially running up to the tower jobs the road can be tight curvy and one wrong move you could be going for your last ride.
I don't have a CDl at the moment.
Quote from: LogTruckin on October 25, 2019, 11:08:40 PM
Quote from: quilbilly on October 25, 2019, 10:26:42 PM
Skeans and I both operate out of the PNW. I would say if you're willing to put in the hours and do basic maintenance and mechanical work you can make it for sure. Area and setup are important. Some companies are moving to hourly which helps, but as an OO you're on your own. A younger fella about 28 got into trucking a few years ago and he's making a solid living. Bought a new truck even. Gotta be willing to chase the work though.
I would be willing to relocate to anywhere pretty much there is work. Do you mean setup as in the type of truck used?
The main setups you see out here are Long Loggers and Mule Train short loggers, with the long logger you can add an insert between the bunks to haul short logs, or long logs of varying lengths. The short loggers or mule trains you are more or less stuck unless the truck was setup with quick pin bunks allowing you to remove one of the bunks from the truck and placing it more towards the center of the frame. The other option that you see if space is available for turn around and the grade isn't too bad is a fifth wheel hay rack which isn't as common for the reason stated above.
As far as on road/off road experience, you need both. Any time behind the wheel meshing gears is beneficial, and you have to be able to negotiate highway traffic, too. But offroad driving takes another level of skill IMHO. Some days I'll have 10+ different trucks hauling off of a job, using the same turnaround etc., some guys never or rarely have a problem and others manage to get stuck every time. Don't be one of them😊 Think and look ahead. Maintain momentum, and leave yourself a gear to jump to (easier with some transmissions than others.) Watch the guys that are good at it and copy them. A lot of it is just paying attention, a lot of times the guys that suck at it just don't pay attention to what's going on around them.
I appreciate all the input everyone. All the feedback is greatly appreciated!!
Quote from: LogTruckin on October 25, 2019, 11:11:30 PM
I don't have a CDl at the moment.
Get your licence and a job in the field. Drive for someone else for a few years, get the experience and contacts. You will get a feel for how the economics work out, and have the experience to actually do the job.
Then you can decide if the local market is going to match up with your plan. If it doesn't you still have a CDL and some experience, so plenty of other jobs out there.
This was 20 years.The guy that use to truck for me made a living at it. I went to school with him.Drive during daylight hours,work on his truck at night. He had a big garage too. Than at about 40 he sold his truck and started to drive for a paper company driving wood to NH each day. Than onto Poland Spring delivering water. He had some driving at night,did not like that much,now he's delivering forklifts,and high lifts,rentals or new ones in ME,MA,NH,VT and is home for supper most nights.
Yes skeans pretty much nailed it. Most mule train guys near me are really busy. I know a guy who says he'd sell out cause he's tired of trucking, I think it's just talk though. With all the thinning going on mule trains are getting more popular near me. Long loggers still get business especially those with a pup, we could've really used a truck with a pup on our last job. If you are really interested in getting into it, call up the local Mills and see if they have any use for a driver in a timber sale they bought etc. I have a buddy who simply called SPI when he moved to Bellingham for his wife's school and was working everyday within a week.
Another way some log truck drivers start off driving the roading trucks hauling gravel and sand or agricultural trucks hauling grain and fertilizer, then move onto log/ sawn timber trucks.
Is the driver/ steerer in the back unit on half pay?
Blue line pole truck with rear under logs steering unit.
Logging 125 FOOT POLES on SWITCHBACK CORNERS!!! Clear and Level Logging and Lee Levanen Logging - YouTube (https://youtu.be/Da6SwBa7yX8)
Some drivers can go onto move the expensive heavy equipment, it appears from some accidents that some move into the job before they can safely/ fully manage the task.
I-40E bridge etc - the driver's response to the officer's question ' What happened man?' Driver's response - 'The bridge was tooo loow'
I-65N at I-40E Overpass Bridge Crash - YouTube (https://youtu.be/EmHGqfJ5KdI)
@quilbilly (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=30292)
We're all going the other direction down here even thinning long loggers with the inserts to do everything. There use to be a local truck down here that ran a rack with a pup that could be loaded onto the rack, if I remember right the rack is down at Kelso Pape.
Quote from: Riwaka on October 27, 2019, 05:50:42 AM
Another way some log truck drivers start off driving the roading trucks hauling gravel and sand or agricultural trucks hauling grain and fertilizer, then move onto log/ sawn timber trucks.
Is the driver/ steerer in the back unit on half pay?
Blue line pole truck with rear under logs steering unit.
Logging 125 FOOT POLES on SWITCHBACK CORNERS!!! Clear and Level Logging and Lee Levanen Logging - YouTube (https://youtu.be/Da6SwBa7yX8)
Some drivers can go onto move the expensive heavy equipment, it appears from some accidents that some move into the job before they can safely/ fully manage the task.
I-40E bridge etc - the driver's response to the officer's question ' What happened man?' Driver's response - 'The bridge was tooo loow'
I-65N at I-40E Overpass Bridge Crash - YouTube (https://youtu.be/EmHGqfJ5KdI)
That's the old style pole trailer, most even doing longer don't have anyone riding in them anymore they are remotely operated from the cab of the truck.
Quote from: Skeans1 on October 27, 2019, 08:13:50 AM
@quilbilly (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=30292)
We're all going the other direction down here even thinning long loggers with the inserts to do everything. There use to be a local truck down here that ran a rack with a pup that could be loaded onto the rack, if I remember right the rack is down at Kelso Pape.
I think for some reason the Mills a little further north haven't moved to a min length yet. So everyone is cutting hardwood as short as possible, SPI is paying the same for 16' as 40' almost all CNS and 6"+ Mills here take wood 27' and less.
Quote from: quilbilly on October 27, 2019, 10:50:03 AM
Quote from: Skeans1 on October 27, 2019, 08:13:50 AM
@quilbilly (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=30292)
We're all going the other direction down here even thinning long loggers with the inserts to do everything. There use to be a local truck down here that ran a rack with a pup that could be loaded onto the rack, if I remember right the rack is down at Kelso Pape.
I think for some reason the Mills a little further north haven't moved to a min length yet. So everyone is cutting hardwood as short as possible, SPI is paying the same for 16' as 40' almost all CNS and 6"+ Mills here take wood 27' and less.
That was one nice thing about Cascade Hardwoods camp run pricing per top diameter. Even our CNS sorts are doing an average length of 33's or 35's required per load, I can ship shorter wood just not full loads of it anymore the days of doing short logs down here are coming to an end the mills are fighting the guys still doing them by dropping their P.O. out of no where.
Aside from being a viable Buisness and getting a license driving a truck 12 hours a day takes a certain person. I came out of the shop, drove for a buddy of mine to help out while he found a driver, Day 1 this is fun driving the big rigs, Day 2 yeah this is cool, Day 3 noontime, what Did I get myself into.
My advice Drive for a company for 2 years, as an O/O you need 2 years experience for an insurance company to take you on. You will either love it or like your next job better because of it.
Best advice, get a job at UPS, they pay stupid good wage and fantastic retirement.
And the best way to make a Million dollars trucking is to start with 2 Million.
X2 There is a lot more to being an O/O than buying a truck and heading for a fat paycheck. It is a business and with any business costs have to be kept under control. Too many truckers take the attitude that they just need to keep driving, any money left over at the end of the month must be theirs. A friend and his son run two logging trucks. The older KW had to have the front end rebuilt before it would pass inspection. Then the axle let go on the Pete's jeep under a load, fortunately not on the highway. First day out with another jeep a rear end piled up, that was covered by warranty but the truck was down for almost a week waiting for parts. It goes on and on.
The logging industry is hurting right now, prices are down and mills are closing. This is really not a good time to be investing in expensive equipment. Do you want a new or used truck. New you are chasing your tail just to keep up with payments. Used you don't have to work as hard but be prepared for a lot of shop time. I'm not trying to kill your dream, it can be very rewarding, but you need to go into it with your eyes open. Good luck.
Trucks can harm you in other ways - carbon monoxide and other gases etc
https://sensorcon-sensing-products-by-molex.myshopify.com/pages/cotransportation (https://sensorcon-sensing-products-by-molex.myshopify.com/pages/cotransportation)
Sleeper compartments in old trucks - mice (attracted to food smells) can carry hanta-virus and other diseases. Mouldy linings etc
Thank you for the great advice everyone. I. surprised to get so much feedback from the folks here! This is something I am brainstorming. I am at a point in my life where I have no kids or wife, in my 30's and looking for a challenge. I love trucks and driving. To the gentleman asking if I wanted a new or used truck. It would most certainly be a used KW. But after I drive for someone a few years. Thank you again. I appreciate this community very much!!
We had a younger guy work for us for a while part time, hated the other job he had and we bought him a fairly new triaxle, he had relatively NO offroad experience and he hated it. We have 3 trucks on a big project going into holes, takes a special type to run log truck or any truck off road. If you where closer I could get you in the truck of these guys hauling to Finch working by me, taking 240+ wheelbase tractors loaded with 5 tiers on 7 axles 1+miles down off the mountain on beat nasty roads with switchback turns, help you in your decision 😂
No matter what you think it is, trucking isnt what you think it is. There is a threshold of what it is and appears to be, called a CDL. Once you have one the curtain is peeled back.
Until you have run someone elses truck, hand calculated the MPG, gawked at the weekly fuel expense, annual insurance policy, monthly payment, tickets, scales, no parking, DOT, repairs... Until youve done that and then some you arent ready to own one.. An inexperienced operator coming home with a semi is a serious black cloud most of the time. Everything becomes your fault. Youre parked on the shoulder lit up like a Christmas tree and a drunk texter slams into you? Your fault, because you have a huge liability policy to go after. The one place you can fit to park has 10 no parking signs. Its freezing cold but you cant idle.. Wake up seeing your breath. All sort of BS with this life.
Trucks have foreclosed as many mortgages as they have paid. Its a 50/50 outcome and your luck x preparation is the biggest determinant.
Get cdl and try it on BUT DONT BUY IN until you are buying a competitor out for 50% of what he spent to get in. A new guy should NEVER be buying new iron without a windfall contract from jesus himself. NEVER.
Take this guys advice ☝️☝️☝️....
Unfortunately I have no choice but to throw these in there... 😂 its 0015 and I'm just now getting out of my log truck.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34634/18765593_737477439747623_3026147943685356563_n~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1572322293)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34634/18301083_1937111329854345_1982167015073790783_n~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1572322267)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eygcTUWvwxc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eygcTUWvwxc)
Guess it's a little different out here, we don't make too bad on the trucking and we're normally running less then 12 hours a day home every night.
i saw an ad in the newspaper 2 days ago. irving woodlands was looking for drivers and if you were a good fit for them. they would buy you a new truck and trailer. its some kind of lease purchase? it must work out for some.
Around these parts its tough not to have a yard loader or a truck with a loader. Its helped my end number a lot in my small logging business but again I only haul for myself and load trailers. I also will add I do a lot of wrench turning on it and chasing issues. Nothing like jamming a few gears though. I'd say get your credentials and work for someone else then decide. Good luck. 1988 R690S Mack. Old school.
I've had a class A cdl since the late 1990s, drove 10 wheeler log trucks, hay trucks and others before that. After i got my cdl i i drove 18 wheelers for a building materials company for 7 years. Got a better paying job driving 18 wheelers for IBC, which was a bread company, stayed with them 7 years. Been driving 10 wheeler dump trucks here for the road department where i'm at now for 14 years, all the while trying to cut and skid logs on the weekends and in my spare time. Sometimes i would rather take a beating than climb in the cab of a truck, other times it is not so bad. Truck driving like anything will get old after awhile, and take a toll on your body, whether its lack of sleep or just bouncing and jostling around in the cab all day. Good luck in whatever path you choose.
Quote from: Skeans1 on October 29, 2019, 06:38:07 AM
Guess it's a little different out here, we don't make too bad on the trucking and we're normally running less then 12 hours a day home every night.
That is a short day for many around here. My buddy was out of the truck for a year due health issues but drove the missus nuts. She and junior cooked up a deal where he bought an old Kenworth long logger to get dad out of the house. Just part time dad, you want to haul one load a day fine. Recently dad asked junior when this part time thing was supposed to start. " What's your problem? It's only twelve hours a day, you used to work 18." :D
Quote from: snowstorm on October 29, 2019, 06:49:15 AM
i saw an ad in the newspaper 2 days ago. irving woodlands was looking for drivers and if you were a good fit for them. they would buy you a new truck and trailer. its some kind of lease purchase? it must work out for some.
My research has concluded that lease purchase is always in the favor of the house and it shifts the burden of repair and maintenance off the leasor and onto the [overworked, dead tired] leasee. It can work if the trucks never break but they havent invented one of those yet. On the contrary the sun seems to have set on reliable iron thanks to carb and its emission tiers. When caterpilar, who could finance nations, says it cant be done and bows out, one would be wise to take heed.
Today you shop for warranty more than quality.
I love trucks and iron and industry, but sorta hate trucking. Ive been out 2 weeks on this run. Try telling your kids the reason why you miss everything in their life is that you did it for them.
Food for thought. Logtruck is probably a lot better than OTR for family life.
Irving has had that program in the past with equipment, they tell you where you can cut, how much, when you can cut, etc. Works great, after you file for bankruptcy they hire you as an employee and put you right back into the cab of the same piece of equipment you paid for through their plan. Best to take care of it for when that time comes....
Oh, forgot to add the "for Irving" after "works great".
Up here 10-12 hrs is normal with most folks around 10. I'm counting start time as when you get to the landing for your first load and end time when you get to the shop/home.
Fewer and fewer self loaders here. Probably the best setup around is a self loading mule train a fellow has. He is able to really coordinate his loads so he always has haulbacks. With fewer gyppos around though the self loaders are dying a slow death.
Everyone here is hurting for qualified drivers, half is the company's fault and half the drivers the way I look at it but I have a biased opinion, I see alot of guys leave a nice steady job to go chase 3 months of scale work then they cry because they are on the couch again. My local municipality still thinks 14.50 an hr for a driver is a fair wage to plow snow and wrench on a truck, going to be alot of unplowed roads this yr. I get milk from Garelick Farms, they are so short drivers it's a guess which day they may come ? The guy who hauls my pulp to Finch is talking about retiring completely, I dont know what I'm going to do because everyone else is basically 5 tier trailers which dont work on alot of these jobs. Our 2 best drivers are over 65 and we still have 2-3yrs left on that job. My ex works for DMV, if you could see the mutants these driving schools are turning out every month you wouldnt want to be on the road, I just flat pull over when I see a Swift truck 😂
Quote from: BargeMonkey on October 30, 2019, 01:11:46 AM
Everyone here is hurting for qualified drivers, half is the company's fault and half the drivers the way I look at it but I have a biased opinion, I see alot of guys leave a nice steady job to go chase 3 months of scale work then they cry because they are on the couch again. My local municipality still thinks 14.50 an hr for a driver is a fair wage to plow snow and wrench on a truck, going to be alot of unplowed roads this yr. I get milk from Garelick Farms, they are so short drivers it's a guess which day they may come ? The guy who hauls my pulp to Finch is talking about retiring completely, I dont know what I'm going to do because everyone else is basically 5 tier trailers which dont work on alot of these jobs. Our 2 best drivers are over 65 and we still have 2-3yrs left on that job. My ex works for DMV, if you could see the mutants these driving schools are turning out every month you wouldnt want to be on the road, I just flat pull over when I see a Swift truck 😂
I know what your talking about. The dump trucks we run are bought new, all with allison automatic transmissions, which are good, tough and reliable transmissions, the trucks now are western stars. We have 1 peterbilt that has a 10 speed transmission, it sits most of the time, its a good truck. Out of 14 employees less than half know how to shift it. I used to hate driving some of the junkpiles i had to drive when i was younger, now that i'm older i'm glad i did.
"My ex works for DMV, if you could see the mutants these driving schools are turning out every month you wouldnt want to be on the road, I just flat pull over when I see a Swift truck 😂"
Barge, don't get me started. That has been a real problem here, there is a certain segment of the population that has gotten heavily into trucking and learned how to abuse the system. They get caught it's just a part of doing business but the industry as a whole has been given a bad name. CVSE (Commercial Vehicle Safety Enforcement) is kept very busy but it is frustrating and time consuming for the legitimate operators.
Report (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=reporttm;topic=108129.39;msg=1688601)
I don't know anything about trucking but I bet it's a hard life and it wouldn't surprise me if truckers have a shorter lifespan, on average. Hmmm... found this... cannot vouch for the veracity of this but here it is... Shorter Lifespan for Truck Drivers? | DOT Physicals | Orlando DOT Physicals ? DOT Physical Exam (http://orlandodotphysicals.com/shorter-life-span-for-truck-drivers/)
If it's right, and truckers average lifespan is 61, that is sobering. The average male lives to 77, it said. (Nowadays, it's 79.) That gap merits more research for you if you're interested! It just has to be tough on the body... a pretty unhealthy lifestyle.
Regarding demand, I recall seeing some articles over the past year or so about in the near future, there is going to be one helluva shortage of... butchers... and... truckers. Because the existing stock of butchers and truckers is people near retirement age! And as for butchers... kids don't want that job. As for truckers, I can't say. Except the hours are tough and young people are not very 'tough' when it comes to tough hours.
One thing that would be worry me about becoming an O/O trucker in the logging industry... automation is taking jobs on a continual basis. Think of how much it's changed since the days of bobtail pulpwood trucks all over the road and fallers with chainsaws in the woods to what is out there now. Lots of jobs gone. But, that worries about ALL jobs... automation. Who knows how civilization is going to handle it.
Good luck!
Automation is exactly whatll steer a swiftie out to barge country on a google shortcut tip someday!
Shure
Wish
I
Finished
Training
;D
Jamie Davis doesn't seem to mind ;D
Sure, weve got insurance for that!
Quote from: mike_belben on October 30, 2019, 06:59:40 PM
Automation is exactly whatll steer a swiftie out to barge country on a google shortcut tip someday!
😂.... I LOVE -GPS-, about 1x a yr we get to go retrieve someone who didnt know enough to stop. The last big truck wasnt that far from my house, box truck full of building material, they literally went out thru the woods because the GPS said the old road was there. We tell them how much and oh, we have to send you a check, 😂 landowner drove them to the bank ATM in Grand Gorge and got they money before we hooked on them with the backhoe.
I need to post some pictures of this road these guys are hauling off, it looks like a washed out motocross track, beyond nuts 😂
OK, two short stories:
a couple of years ago we get dispatched for a trees and wires call. I was the only one who rolled on it. Simple job, yup, primary down. Call in the pole number close the road and cone it off. Rural road, not much traffic, no big deal. As I am turning the rig around to leave a guy pulls up in a full sized luxury tour bus. I tell him there is no way to get through. He's got a schedule, so I try to help him out. "Got a map book, and where are you headed?" I ask. "Nope, no map book, I got a GPS, don't need that. I am headed to Grand Gorge." I laughed, perhaps a little too much (OK, I laughed so hard I got the dry heaves) and told him to throw his GPS in the creek, his GPS sent him on a 60 mile detour. It took 20 minutes to turn that dang bus around on that tiny road and he had some scars to show for it. I backed him into an old skid road (3 attempts, he didn't really have the 'backing thing' down yet and never worked with a spotter) and finally got him turned around. He was not happy, I was less so.
2nd story:
I stopped in downtown Conesville, NY for breakfast before heading to a GOL class 15 minutes away. Had a great breakfast then headed off to class. I didn't think to check the GPS path against a map as I usually do because it's not too far from my comfort zone and what could go wrong? Well, the GPS put my on a crushed stone road that went on for more than a few miles and I started to be concerned because I hadn't seen a house or anything for quite a while. Eventually I wound up back on the blacktop, then at my class. But I will confess, I was concerned I would run out of road pretty soon. Glad it was summertime. In the winter the story would probably be a lot different and I might be one of Barge's contributors. ;D
I had gps put me in a pumpkin patch one time. Another time i was on a class 6 road like midnight, 4wd low full throttle with a car trailer behind me trying to keep momentum as the trailer kept breaking through the ice with a 1ton dually dump truck on it.
Mishaps notwithstanding.. Id never survive in the big truck without one. Satellite view is how i find the quarries and rock yards for absolute certain. And whether i have to back in or not.
So this is going back to when GPS were quite new. I was heading out of the woods and around mile marker 4 - so I am 4 miles from the hot top, the hot top on the other end of the road is 86 miles away and at a Quebec border crossing. These are shale roads, well dust and shale, but even with 10 ply tires you don't want to do over 30 if they are fresh graded as you will cut your tires. I meet a convertible Jaguar coming the opposite way (heading west) with a middle aged couple in it and knowing that there is a Phish concert happening this weekend, 50 miles east of here, I am rather positive these people have zero idea where they are or where they are actually headed, so I stop ahead of them and get them to stop.
The conversation went something along the lines of:
Me: Where you headed
Him: The Phish Concert
Me: Ummm - no you're not
Him: My fancy gizmo here told me this is the way to the concert so we are going this way (sorry OG and Barge I am pretty sure they had NY plates if I remember correctly - he had the attitude for sure)
Me: No - your're going to die, and then I am going to have to come back in here, find your car, drag it out of the ditch you will be stuck in, find your bodies, and then call your next of kin.
Her: What?
Me: Yea - the next thing you are going to encounter on this road is an iron gate 86 miles from here and it will be locked when you get there. But don't worry, you will most likely run out of gas before then or get run over by a log truck, maybe even both, but for sure you won't attend the Phish concert heading this way.
Him: Look here at my Gizmo - it says this is the road
Me: Ok - suit yourself, I am sure I will see you again, you may not see me, but it is what it is.
Her: -to him- TURN THE CAR AROUND!!
Her: - to me - very pleasantly I may add - "Can you please tell us how to get to the Phish Concert"
Me: Follow me, I need to work there this weekend anyway.
We had a guy a few yrs ago come out to get something off the farm, I gave him directions, explicitly said "do not get off the blacktop". We get a gargled message that hes stuck and come help. This guy went on roads down by middleburgh I didnt know existed. Theres still alot of places here where you could scream all you want no ones going to hear you, 36k people and almost 700 square miles and 34k of them live in 1 spot. It's been a while since I've been involved in extracting a body, had a guy get smashed one night, drive over the truck trail in his car, stuffed it in the ditch, froze to death, he got a ride behind the 450G, it happens.
This is a clip I shot in a mate's truck a few years ago. We knew where we were, but forget cell coverage out there, even today. It's ~100 miles from home to the next town, and this is a side road off that.
I use Google maps all the time, and it's pretty good now. They have actually sent their camera car down most of the roads, not just working off a map. The real test is to try a "Streetview" of an unknown road. Locally at least, if it's gravel, the Streetview wont have gone there. That's a warning right there.
I can't Streetview my old house, OR Lara's friends house that was a 2.5 hour round trip to drop her off for a sleepover. Even at that distance, we are the closest town for them....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6KyHgTvEmI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6KyHgTvEmI)
And you can see the pruned pine plantation in the first part of the clip, so that's the sort of place the local loggers and truckers are working.