I recently joined forestry forum and I think this is the right place to ask this. I'm planning on building a router sled and was wondering what brand of flatting bits you guys are using and if your happy with them? thanks.
Freud and Whiteside both make great bits, as do others. Years ago folks used a bit for flattening bowls, but now there are special bits available for flattening slabs.
In the post in this link, doc_henderson shows the Amana bits he uses. I've never done flattening with router myself, not yet anyway.
Flattening cookie (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=108153.msg1687941#msg1687941)
I agree with Scott and Brad (and Doc H by proxy...). I've got all them, with carbide inserts, my latest is an amana with removable 4-sided inserts that you can rotate or swap out when cutting edge gets dull.
Steve
Here is the 1 1/4" bit that I use in a 1 3/4 hp PC single speed router.
https://www.freudtools.com/products/12-182 (https://www.freudtools.com/products/12-182)
If I had a variable speed router I would definitely look to something like those big Amana bits with the insert cutters. Whatever you choose, make sure you check the speed rating of the bit.
Captive routers in sleds can use most of the CNC spoil board surfacing bits (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=CNC+Spoilboard+Surfacing+Router+Bit+1%2F2+Inch+Shank+Durable+Carbide+Tipped&i=tools&ref=nb_sb_noss) that have recently become available. Not sure how safe they would be for freehand work. I really like the ones with replaceable carbide inserts, as were mentioned above. They are pricey, but when you think about the extended use you can get from rotating the inserts three times, the initial cost makes more sense.
Welcome brother Newb:
Well, I just bought a Whiteside 2" spoilboard surfacing bit for my brand new Triton 3-1/4 hp router. I'm happy with it but my router planing experience is too limited to compare to others.
I chose the 2" because I want to make 1-1/2" passes. With my router, I probably could have gone bigger, but I decided to "grow into" the larger sizes slowly.
I'll have more/better info after Saturday.
thanks for all the responses and information !! mredden for some reason I was under the impression that you shouldn'd cut more than 1/2 the width of the bit. I have never used one of these, I don't know. can some one shed some light on this ? I've been wrong before so it wont hurt my feelings. :D :D
If you use more than half of the bit and your depth of cut is more than, say 1/8", the bit will grab and wander and be harder to control because half of it is climb cutting. I try to use just half the bit. Incidentally, since you said you were going to build a sled, here's a link (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,80966.msg1232323.html#msg1232323) to my first attempt...and what it's evolved into (reply #5) (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=108180.msg1688425#msg1688425)
Quote from: ESFted on December 03, 2019, 08:33:07 PM
If you use more than half of the bit and your depth of cut is more than, say 1/8", the bit will grab and wander and be harder to control because half of it is climb cutting. I try to use just half the bit. Incidentally, since you said you were going to build a sled, here's a link (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,80966.msg1232323.html#msg1232323) to my first attempt...and what it's evolved into (reply #5) (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=108180.msg1688425#msg1688425)
Like I said above, I'm a newb. :embarassed:
I figure that a half inch would overlap inch overlap so I could make 1-1/2" runs with a 2" bit. Looks like I'm gonna make one inch runs instead. I tried it out last Saturday but was just playing with scrap on my workbench and not really making consistent width runs at all. This Saturday will be the real test because I finished my (massive outdoor) table last night and will have my sled complete tonight. Okay, maybe tomorrow.
Quote from: mredden on December 04, 2019, 09:35:22 AM
Quote from: ESFted on December 03, 2019, 08:33:07 PM
If you use more than half of the bit and your depth of cut is more than, say 1/8", the bit will grab and wander and be harder to control because half of it is climb cutting. I try to use just half the bit. Incidentally, since you said you were going to build a sled, here's a link (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,80966.msg1232323.html#msg1232323) to my first attempt...and what it's evolved into (reply #5) (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=108180.msg1688425#msg1688425)
Like I said above, I'm a newb. :embarassed:
I figure that a half inch would overlap inch overlap so I could make 1-1/2" runs with a 2" bit. Looks like I'm gonna make one inch runs instead. I tried it out last Saturday but was just playing with scrap on my workbench and not really making consistent width runs at all. This Saturday will be the real test because I finished my (massive outdoor) table last night and will have my sled complete tonight. Okay, maybe tomorrow.
Looks like I may end up getting that 3" Magnate after all. I had planned to do so, but Woodcraft had the Whiteside 2" on sale for Black Friday when I dropped in.
so the width of cut being consistent is less important, as long as the depth is constant, it will be fine in the end. if you have significant variation and will make passes at progressive depth, then the first layers do not matter as much, cause you will eventually go deeper. the width of cut has to do with power of the router and stability of using a handheld router. normally when you rout an edge of a piece, the router goes in a direction that turns into the wood. so the natural effect is to pull the bit into the wood and keeps what ever guide against the edge. so I might take a bigger swath if going right to left working across the top and pushing the router away from me. and less as I pull back. you want some resistance based on rotation of the bit. you do not want the router to try to run away going with the rotation. I do usually cut in both directions, but with anticipation of the behavior of the router. with your setup, you will train yourself, hopefully soon :D, after you use it for a while.
Quote from: doc henderson on December 04, 2019, 09:52:34 AM
so the width of cut being consistent is less important, as long as the depth is constant, it will be fine in the end. if you have significant variation and will make passes at progressive depth, then the first layers do not matter as much, cause you will eventually go deeper. the width of cut has to do with power of the router and stability of using a handheld router. normally when you rout an edge of a piece, the router goes in a direction that turns into the wood. so the natural effect is to pull the bit into the wood and keeps what ever guide against the edge. so I might take a bigger swath if going right to left working across the top and pushing the router away from me. and less as I pull back. you want some resistance based on rotation of the bit. you do not want the router to try to run away going with the rotation. I do usually cut in both directions, but with anticipation of the behavior of the router. with your setup, you will train yourself, hopefully soon :D, after you use it for a while.
Feel like I'm taking over somebody else's thread, but . . .
My sled design will have the router baseplate "locked in" under "rails" so the router cannot fly out of the sled, and a counterweight to me to keep the whole sled from bucking up and back at me. As you can tell, I am a bit shy of this big ol' Triton 3.25.
I plan to try keeping it at 3/16 cutting depth until I have the board flat though I imagine there will be some unnoticed extrusions that will take me over 1/4 on the first pass.After it's flat I hope to work shallower.
I'll take the advice given above to keep at 1 inch with my 2 inch bit until I learn A LOT more.
your 3.25 hp router is also heavy, and I never felt out of control. I used the plunge feature and the turret adjustment to let it down a bit at a time after each layer. I have a porter cable. if it gouges it may hop the whole sled or bend you bit shank. that is why I use a 1/2 inch shank. start slow and get more aggressive until something tells you to back up a little. good luck! just like a sharp knife, I think a more powerful tool is safer than an under powered tool that is pushed beyond its limit.
Quote from: doc henderson on December 04, 2019, 07:14:56 PM
your 3.25 hp router is also heavy, and I never felt out of control. I used the plunge feature and the turret adjustment to let it down a bit at a time after each layer. I have a porter cable. if it gouges it may hop the whole sled or bend you bit shank. that is why I use a 1/2 inch shank. start slow and get more aggressive until something tells you to back up a little. good luck! just like a sharp knife, I think a more powerful tool is safer than an under powered tool that is pushed beyond its limit.
My sled is designed to be "hop-proof." We'll see. That, of course, means that a bent shank becomes more likely since there wont be much upward play.
I also have the 1/2" shanked bit.
Quote from: mredden on December 05, 2019, 09:22:35 AM
Quote from: doc henderson on December 04, 2019, 07:14:56 PM
your 3.25 hp router is also heavy, and I never felt out of control. I used the plunge feature and the turret adjustment to let it down a bit at a time after each layer. I have a porter cable. if it gouges it may hop the whole sled or bend you bit shank. that is why I use a 1/2 inch shank. start slow and get more aggressive until something tells you to back up a little. good luck! just like a sharp knife, I think a more powerful tool is safer than an under powered tool that is pushed beyond its limit.
My sled is designed to be "hop-proof." We'll see. That, of course, means that a bent shank becomes more likely since there wont be much upward play.
I also have the 1/2" shanked bit.
You will have to work really hard to bend a 1/2" shank. Not sure I could do it if I tried. Even a 3+hp router will bog down if you push it too hard. I've never had any fear of the heavy router, plus the carriage it's bolted to hopping up/off the frame while taking a reasonable depth of cut. I always have two hands on it, one on the switch and the other on the wheels of the router carriage that ride on the frame. The hand on the wheel serves as a stop that keeps the path of the router straight during the cut.
I was cruising the net recently and ran across what might be the ultimate router planer sled short of a CNC. No affiliation, but this thing is pretty cool (https://www.takeonetoo.com/).
I agree @ESFted (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=23949) and that was why I stated to use a 1/2 inch shank. I have seen a 1/4 inch shank bend. it will not happen if bogged, but if it suddenly hops and digs violently, it might. be safe out there!
Quote from: olcowhand on December 03, 2019, 04:18:47 AM
I agree with Scott and Brad (and Doc H by proxy...). I've got all them, with carbide inserts, my latest is an amana with removable 4-sided inserts that you can rotate or swap out when cutting edge gets dull.
Steve
I bought that bit last year, put it in the router, turned it on and got a surprise. One of the inserts came apart went through my shirt and stuck in my chest.Probably was over torqued at the factory and shipped broken. An advantage of this head is that it is within the "Euro bit system" and I went over to my bit box and screwed in a replacement chip. Pretty good cutter :) head....
We fried a Freud 3.25 hp router motor with this head and I replaced the cooked Freud with a new Fesstool that looks to be twice the machine- we shall see.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35190/round_walnut_table_3__10_10__2019~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1575584927)
Rob,
Seeing that you Quoted me made me feel somewhat proud, right up to the part of the story where a piece of the bit buried itself in your chest......
Well, so much for my 15 minutes, 1.5 minutes, 15 seconds- 1.5 seconds of fame!
Pliers or Tweezers (to get it out)?
Steve
Quote from: tule peak timber on December 05, 2019, 05:25:22 PM
Quote from: olcowhand on December 03, 2019, 04:18:47 AM
I agree with Scott and Brad (and Doc H by proxy...). I've got all them, with carbide inserts, my latest is an amana with removable 4-sided inserts that you can rotate or swap out when cutting edge gets dull.
Steve
I bought that bit last year, put it in the router, turned it on and got a surprise. One of the inserts came apart went through my shirt and stuck in my chest.Probably was over torqued at the factory and shipped broken. An advantage of this head is that it is within the "Euro bit system" and I went over to my bit box and screwed in a replacement chip. Pretty good cutter :) head....
We fried a Freud 3.25 hp router motor with this head and I replaced the cooked Freud with a new Fesstool that looks to be twice the machine- we shall see. ...
Glad it was only a superficial wound. Makes me wonder if the polycarbonate eye protection I wear is gonna stop something like pieces of carbide shrapnel. Maybe I'll layer on a full face mask too. It also might be worth rigging up some sort of additional lexan deflectors around the router, it that's possible. Have you taken any precautionary measures with the new router?
The same sort of potential shrapnel issue probably exists with helical head jointers, although they are surrounded by machine steel and the wood you are jointing/planing.
the blade flies and is hard, but not much mass, so It may damage your glasses but hopefully not you eye. also I try not to put my face in the rotary plane of the router. @tule peak timber (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=25190) is so tuff, it prob. just shattered the carbide.
Flattened my first board over the weekend. Chose the two most twisted, cupped and knotty 5 ft red oak crotch board about 24 inches wide for "experimentation". Flattened beautifully but I lost 7/16 of thickness - which was a bit more than I had measured the cup. The wood had a surface MC of 10% and center MC of about 13.5%.
With my 2" bottom cleaning bit, it seemed to be the smoothest when taking swaths of slightly less than 1 inch at a depth of about 3/16 or less running 14,500 rpms. I went with the manufacturer's recommended speed & didn't try a faster or slower rpm setting. The router never even grunted. Cutting wider or deeper heated the bit and produced a small amount of blackened surface. Not much, but why have any. the last pass was only 1/6 and was beautiful
Not a fast process but I'm sure it will speed up when I quit experimenting. Gonna try pecan at about 12% surface moisture content next weekend.
Thanks for all the advice guys. Thanks for staring the thread OP.
My process for using my router sled to flatten slabs has been using a 2.25" carbide bit. I take a pretty good size cut, probably 2" wide. Usually do not go very deep. I run along the grain the full length of the board then I move it to the cut area about a 1/4" and bring the router back to the start. Then I move the router into the uncut area and repeat.
I found by doing the small overlap and running it back through the cut area it leaves the smoothest finish and no visible machining lines. At least that is the experience I had on the material I was experimenting on.
Quote from: Crusarius on December 09, 2019, 11:09:39 AM
My process for using my router sled to flatten slabs has been using a 2.25" carbide bit. I take a pretty good size cut, probably 2" wide. Usually do not go very deep. I run along the grain the full length of the board then I move it to the cut area about a 1/4" and bring the router back to the start. Then I move the router into the uncut area and repeat.
I found by doing the small overlap and running it back through the cut area it leaves the smoothest finish and no visible machining lines. At least that is the experience I had on the material I was experimenting on.
I stole that process from you when you first brought it up and it leaves a very nice finish.
Quote from: ESFted on December 05, 2019, 08:14:19 PM
Quote from: tule peak timber on December 05, 2019, 05:25:22 PM
Quote from: olcowhand on December 03, 2019, 04:18:47 AM
I agree with Scott and Brad (and Doc H by proxy...). I've got all them, with carbide inserts, my latest is an amana with removable 4-sided inserts that you can rotate or swap out when cutting edge gets dull.
Steve
I bought that bit last year, put it in the router, turned it on and got a surprise. One of the inserts came apart went through my shirt and stuck in my chest.Probably was over torqued at the factory and shipped broken. An advantage of this head is that it is within the "Euro bit system" and I went over to my bit box and screwed in a replacement chip. Pretty good cutter :) head....
We fried a Freud 3.25 hp router motor with this head and I replaced the cooked Freud with a new Fesstool that looks to be twice the machine- we shall see. ...
Glad it was only a superficial wound. Makes me wonder if the polycarbonate eye protection I wear is gonna stop something like pieces of carbide shrapnel. Maybe I'll layer on a full face mask too. It also might be worth rigging up some sort of additional lexan deflectors around the router, it that's possible. Have you taken any precautionary measures with the new router?
The same sort of potential shrapnel issue probably exists with helical head jointers, although they are surrounded by machine steel and the wood you are jointing/planing.
The piece came out with just my fingers-no big deal- would have been quite different for an eyeball ! I've had 6 inch splinters explode off the table saw and stick in my scalp like some kind of cartoon scene. Experienced much , much worse stuff as a commercial fisherman.
Prudence, caution , and respect for your equipment. Plan for safety !