The Forestry Forum

Hey y'all,
I've been mainly posting in the "Whatcha Sawing" thread but decided to start a new thread where I can share my experiences in building my future retirement home or more correctly, to share the delusions of my retirement dreams and the path they led me down.
 
The back story is that I retired a couple of years ago (typical forced corporate retirement) so my wife and I bought a 30 acre piece of  wooded earth out in East Texas with the intent of building our retirement home and enjoy life there.  Only about a quarter of an acre was actually clear so we built a steel barn there as our center of operations and mapped out where we wanted to build our future home.  We saw that we needed to clear a lot of trees including a fire break around the home site and barn.
 
Long story short, my wife and I cleared about 2 to 3 acres of land and ended up with a BIG pile of logs.  After checking what I could get selling the logs, my wife and I came up with the bright idea to buy a sawmill and cut all of the lumber for our new home, starting with those logs!  We figured we could cut up that stack of logs and harvest some of the bigger trees from the rest of our land.
 
So as we plunged headlong into this adventure, we learned that there were lots of other things we needed to think about like drying, stacking, and storing the lumber we cut.  We needed a place for the sawmill and we needed a way to process all of the lumber once we cut it.  So the brilliant idea turned into a massive "To Do" list of things we never anticipated or planned for that we had to accomplish.  Talk about a wake up call.  Are we crazy?  My wife says we are.  But my response is "yes, and enjoying every minute of it!"
 
So here we are over a year later, having cut down about a hundred trees and turned them into over 50K board feet of lumber, plus a drying house, storage house, and sawmill house, all of which we built by hand ourselves.  I am now preparing to do the actual site prep for the house (it's not post and beam, it is stick frame construction, traditional gambrel roof farm house) and I figured this might be a good time to start sharing our experiences.
 
Maybe sharing some of the dreams, ideas, challenges, setbacks, and successes will will be a nice sobering slap to the side of the head for others with similar dreams.  (Not as a discouragement but as a reality check.)
 
In coming posts, I will outline what we are planning on building, as well as all the assorted challenges we face, and the progress we are making. 
 
 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20180928_094504.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576024041) 
 
When it comes to my dream, I put safety above everything else because there is a fate worse than death...being maimed or crippled for the rest of my life.  I constantly remind myself that I am making my wife's and my dream come true so if something happens to me...dream over. So everything starts with safety.
 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20190126_130322~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576024735)
 
 
Meet my crew, lovingly called "12 Mexicans".  No, it's not racist!  It is a compliment because I used to manage crews of temporary workers who were usually Mexican, and they would work their hearts out.  I totally respect that and honor them by naming my tractor in their memory.
 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20190422_093539.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576025155)
  
 
Meet "Buzz Lightsaw" without which I would have never been able to cut all these logs into lumber.  It's a Woodmizer LT40.
 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20190714_144530.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576025653)
 
 
Here is my faithful companion "Miss Gigi".  She is just over a year old, learning to be a service dog and helper around the End of the Earth.  She was bit by a copperhead about a month after I got her.  I thought she was a gonner but she pulled through and was back to normal after about 3 days.
 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20190915_113930.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576026292)
 
 
Last and most importantly, my wife and son.  She is the joy of my life and my reason for embarking on this adventure in the first place.  She is still working so she comes and helps on the weekends with what she can do.  She is my safety spotter when dropping trees and she helps sweep all the sawdust off the newly sawn boards.  Best of all, she is my head cheerleader that drives me to persevere in all challenges.  We have a shared dream and we are making it come true.
 
I hope y'all will enjoy the thread and that it will brighten your day a little bit.  Maybe you'll even find something helpful or enlightening.
 

Retirement home? We are in ours now. Or I hope we are. ;D  Three foot doors every wheres. Wife has been in one more than a few times,the house works. Need a ramp to the house,but don't need one yet. High toilet,bathroom should've been a little bit bigger,but she can transfer from wheelchair to toilet. Walk in shower. We only have 2 over head cupboards,all draws. Slide it out,look in and get what she needs. Everything on one floor. Yes we have a basement,but no need to go down there.

It will be interesting to follow your adventure.  8)

Sign me up,,,,I will be following your posts. Cheers !

Hi thecfarm,
You actually bring up some good thoughts on house design.  Although we are able bodied now, what will we be in 10 or 20 years?  I agree with the thoughts of wide doors, a walk in shower, high toilets, and lots of drawers instead of cabinets, although we are also going to add in a very large pantry to make storage easy and accessible.  Although we will have a second story because of the gambrel roof design, it will be unfinished to start with other than a shiplap floor.  I will be posting in the near future some of our designs and plans.

I'll stay tuned. 

Let me follow along on this journey, as I am heading down a similar one also.
cheers
Stephen

Quote from: EOTE on December 10, 2019, 09:22:33 PM
a walk in shower

I'm living in my retirement home.  Instead of a walk in shower think of a drive in shower.

One of the cool things about being old is all our options....I'm loving it!

Wow! I will enjoy watching as you progress. Making that decision to do it all yourselves and purchase the mill, etc must have been a tough one but once its done, you can def have some good stories and pride.  I suggest wide doors, halls and bathrooms to get around and turn around with wheelchairs and have an extra person fit at same time as well. Have at least one accessible entrance into home with 1 step or no steps or a ramp that can easily be made with railing. Shower with a seat, low step to get into shower and hand rails (these can be added if you have family nearby later). My dad and father-in-law both had a hard time getting around every room with wheelchairs. Also, for some reason, never seemed to be an easily accessible wall plug for oxygen, electric bed,  tv, lights, etc. Two per wall or even 3 would have been ideal. Also, low cabinets to access food.  Tall, elongated toilet helps too. At least 2 bedrooms/rooms on main floor and laundry room. Sry for long post, just have 27 years in healthcare and parents/in-laws who needed help and adjustments to their own homes. If you enjoy outdoors, a walkout porch/patio s a nice addition.

Hi Traci,
You really have some good insight into making a home completely accessible.  You brought up one thing that I think my wife and I will need to discuss and that is accessibility into the house itself.  Our design calls for a 4' wide porch around the most of the house but the main floor is currently planned to be about 3' above grade.  If/when accessibility becomes an issue, that may raise issues we initially failed to account for.  I can envision lowering the main floor to one step above grade and still be happy with the design.  The main entry is from a large courtyard but currently you would need to climb 3 to 4 steps with the current design.

I think we have accounted for most of the other things you have mentioned.  The main floor is a concrete slab and the house is very open inside with 3' wide doors throughout.  I am a proponent of lots of accessible outlets and easy to reach light switches.

Please check back and share other insights as it may help others who are following this thread.  Thanks!

 :P  Looking forward to reading.

Is the house going to be built on a totally flat pad?  If not, have a ramp / sloped sidewalk up the the high spot and then up to the porch.

My niece and her husband rebuilt a little shed (8x8 ) into a little larger she-shed/guest room (8x12).  He wanted electricity in it and was going to put one outlet on 3 of the walls (a total of 3).  I made him put two on each of 3 walls and 1 on the front wall with the door and big window (a total of 7!).  No need to reach behind something or have extension cords!  You can never have too many outlets.

I did forget to mention we have an open concept house,before I knew what that meant. ;D All the rooms on on the right coming into the house. No hall ways.

Quote from: ljohnsaw on December 11, 2019, 12:47:27 AMYou can never have too many outlets.

This is the same premise as no matter how big you build your shop its always to small :)

Congrats! I will enjoy watching as you progress. Making that decision to do it all yourselves and purchase the mill, etc must have been a tough one but once its done, you can def have some good stories and pride.  I suggest wide doors, halls and bathrooms to get in and turn around with wheelchairs and have an extra person (helper if needed) fit at same time. Have at least one accessible entrance into home with 1 step or no steps with railing or a place for a ramp that can easily be made with railing.accidents happen fast and usually when unprepared. Shower with a seat, low step or better no step to get into shower and hand rails. My dad and father-in-law both had a hard time getting around every room with wheelchairs and helping them out of jams was tough. Also, for some reason, never seemed to be an easily accessible wall plug for oxygen, electric bed,  tv, lights, side lamps etc.  3 per most used wall would have been ideal. Extension cords are trip hazards. Also, low cabinets/drawers to access food, water, etc.  Tall, elongated toilet helps get up and down also handle is nice, easily accessible toilet paper holder, At least 2 bedrooms/rooms on main floor and laundry room. Sry for long post, just have 27 years in healthcare and parents/in-laws who needed help and made adjustments to their own homes and the work didn't happen over night. If you enjoy outdoors, a walkout porch/patio is a very nice addition. Sorry, again, for long post

Looking good!  Great job on setting your goal and working to make it a reality.  I too look forward to following your journey. 

following.

Keep in mind that even one step can be very tough when in a wheelchair or if you or loved one is very weak. My dad was stuck inside except when 2 strong men came to visit. Temporarily using a wheelchair around the house now might give you an idea of what you would like or need for the future.

During my Total Knee Replacement recovery during the past three weeks, I quickly found out that a "walker" will not go through either of the bathroom doors unless it's turned sideways.   It did fit inside of the shower but sideways through the shower door opening.

I never anticipated all the feedback on accessibility but it is quite an eye opener.  Magicman, you found out first hand what it's like not having an accessible house.  We are so used to feeling "invincible" when out of the blue life dishes us up a good ol' helping of reality that opens our eyes to our mortality and how frail we actually are.

So I welcome the input because we need to plan for the worst and hope for the best.  After all, we're not teenagers anymore.  :laugh:

Here is the floor plan that we are planning on building.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/Floor_Plan.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576117859)
 

There are no real halls in the house.  We wanted an open plan.  The upstairs currently is not finished except for a full shiplap sub-floor.
Here are a couple of side views...

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/Side_Views.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576117861)


Note the in the first side view, a portion of the porch is screened and the courtyard detail is excluded.  In the second side view, the sunroom has a full length window wall.

Construction is 2" x 6" framing (not your big box stuff but real 2" x 6"s) with 1" x 6" shiplap (no plywood or OSB) on a full concrete slab.  The shell of the home will be insulated on the outside with 3" PolyISO on the walls and 6" PolyISO on the roof.  The exterior finish will be Steel Panels.  We are still considering which panel style to use as we don't want the standard R9 panels.

I am a big follower of Building Science gurus like Matt Risinger so I will be incorporating some of the ideas and concepts that make for a tight, well insulated home while trying to follow some of the older building techniques (such as using shiplap instead of plywood).

We will share more details as we progress on the home.

Nice!  They are a pain when they are not working, but I'd think hard about putting in pocket doors for all the interior.

Quote from: EOTE on December 11, 2019, 10:01:30 PMConstruction is 2" x 6" framing (not your big box stuff but real 2" x 6"s)

I would give careful consideration to this.  I agree with using "2X6's" for all of your stud walls, but remember that a common 16d nail is only ~3¼" long.  Not long enough to nail two full 2" sticks together.  Sawing a full 6" wide is OK and I commonly do it, but personally I would saw 1 5/8" thick which will dry to a nominal 1½".

16d is the longest nail that most nailguns will shoot.  Most framers use 12d which are only ~3" long.

 I wonder about the width of the deck? I built our Lincoln Logs cabin in 85 with 4' wide deck. When it rotted out, in 2004 I rebuilt it to 8'. 7' inside of the railings. With a few chairs and a swing there wasn't room for Rita to get her sister around she has MS and wheelchair bound.

MM brings up a good point.  Fasteners are designed for 1 1/2 thick material, and this is not a trivial issue.  Nail guns won't take the fasteners long enough for full 2" material.  On wall framing in particular, you may run into problems with other things that are designed to work with 3 1/2" or 5 1/2" width framing.  There's no real advantage to wider framing, and you may need to use a stick of store-bought lumber now and then also.  It deserves careful consideration.

One place I like the ability to saw non-standard dimensions is for rafters.  Either for appearance or strength.  

Looking forward to watching your progress.  Good luck with your new home!

Thanks for tickling my reminder button btulloh.  When I have sawn full width 6", 8", 10",etc.  it was for rafters, joist, sills, etc.  All studs have been 3 5/8" & 5 5/8" and yes, if store bought is needed to fill in, it will fit.

Quote from: Magicman on December 12, 2019, 08:39:04 AMbut remember that a common 16d nail is only ~3¼" long.

My Porter Cable takes some longer nails - 3½".   Finally found them at HD.  The box was "damaged" and taped up.  Another, different size, was taped up and discounted 20%.  I pointed out that and the one I wanted that looked the same and the employee gave me the same discount 8)

You might consider designing the closet in the master bedroom as a tornado shelter.  FEMA has a excellent free plan book that gives details.  When I built my shelter, I got cost sharing from the state which kept my out of pocket close to zero.

Yup, a 12d is supposed to be 3¼" and a 16d is supposed to be 3½".  The 1/8" sharpened tip counts toward the length but has no holding power.  A 20d is 4" long but will not fit into most nailguns. 

My thoughts are that commonly found and readily available fasteners should be a valid concern before sawing lumber and starting a build.  This comes up fairly often before I begin sawing a framing lumber job. While sawing well over a million bf of framing lumber I can recall only two customers that insisted upon full 2" and one of these was matching the existing framing lumber while remodeling an older home.  The other told me that if anyone wanted a full 2" to have them call him before sawing.  :D

Hi all, 
I happened to catch this before I headed out to work on my sawmill house.  I actually measured the 2"x 6"s after Magicman's note...they come in at 1-3/4" x 5-3/4" when dry.  I made a decision early on about what length to cut to because I can haul logs with my grapple that are up to 12' long and 24" in diameter.  (I have to jockey them through the trees on some of my logging roads).  Anything larger and I have to skid them behind the 12 Mexicans.  So all my logs were cut to 12' 4" for initial handling.  After the lumber that has been cut from them is dried, we size them to 12' 0" and grade them for their use.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20190724_162509.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576163110)
 

Here is some of the raw lumber drying.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20190618_195912.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576163106)
 

With the exception of the pallet of cedar, this is some of the lumber after it has been sized and graded.

I also determined early on to cut all my lumber to 12' lengths because my original cut list had about 20 different lengths and we all know that not all trees that have grown end up making good lumber, especially when you are approaching 16' to 20' lengths.  When the house was designed, this was kept in mind so that everything can be made from 12' lengths with few exceptions and those I will cut special for their intended use.

When it comes to construction technology, I also determined early on based on my experience and shared experiences from my contractor friends that I would prefabricate the home in 12' +/- sections.  The major reason for this decision was the inherent waste that we saw from carpenters using a part of a board and throwing the rest into the scrap pile.  Every contractor I have talked to has had this problem.  For the stud framing, although it is more expensive and time consuming (hey I'm retired I have all the time in the world ;D), I chose to screw the framing together and nail the shiplap onto the frames.  The screws will provide more holding power than normal ring shank 16d nails used in a nail gun.  Framing design has taken into account the modular design so when panels are set in place they are screwed together as well.  The net result is stronger walls than typical "build on the pad" walls.

To accomodate building the walls in sections and the trusses, I designed a setup and construction table I call my "big ass table".  It is 4 - 4' x 12' tables that can be leveled and bound to each other to provide a consistent working surface.  It can be configured in several different ways such as 12' x 12', 12' x 16', 4' x 24', or 8' x 24'.  See the photos below. 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20191106_121148.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576162309)
 

This is two of the tables configured for building the 24' wide trusses for my sawmill house.



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20191105_094632.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576162310)
 
Here are 2 of the tables after building and finishing


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20191030_170210.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576162319)
 

These hold the tables latched together when using multiple tables.



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20191028_113627.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576162322)



This is the simple leveling mechanism I used to level the tables because I am using them on a sloped gravel surface under my barn awning.  It gives me up to 3" of leveling ability from end to end.

Hopefully this clarifies some of the details (and probably raises more questions.)

I will try and address all the comments as time warrants, and I really thank all of you for your thoughtful input.

You could do what I did and use common dimension lumber for the frame work but screw everything together with deck screws instead of nailing, then put simpsons on every joint.
Overkill, yep, expensive, check, extra and time consuming sure was but if Tennessee ever gets hit with a hurricane I'm good, maybe.

I also agree with the extra width deck.

One thing about your drawings I noticed it that's a long haul from the wood stove to master suite. How are you going to move the warm air?

I guess our posts about screwing everything crossed each other in cyberspace.

Quote from: Raider Bill on December 12, 2019, 10:18:15 AMOne thing about your drawings I noticed it that's a long haul from the wood stove to master suite. How are you going to move the warm air?

Actually the house will have dual HVAC systems on the second floor, one for the bedrooms, master bathroom, office and 2nd floor space, and one for the general open area of the sunroom, kitchen, living room and utility room.  The wood burning stove is more for enjoyment than for heating the house as it would definitely create challenges with moving the air to the whole house.

One thing I am a big fan of is building POC's (proofs of concept) when it comes to any ideas I have in mind for the house.  I grew up in Montana with wood burning stoves as the main source of heat but my wife is a city girl and likes the conveniences of civilization, thus the HVAC systems and the "decorative" wood stove. 

This is the "POC" of the wood burning stove that I built in the barn for my wife to see and understand the capabilities.  The stove will heat the 2400 square foot barn but it still takes a lot of wood.  We both decided that while nice, it won't be the heat provider, it will be for sitting in front of a nice warm fire on a cold night.  (Quite honestly, I have become accustomed to HVAC systems as well and like their conveniences).  The wall behind it is a POC of stone veneer we are considering for the courtyard walls.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20190112_195843.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576164605)
 

Some more observations on planning for abnormal situations.. Carpet is a no-no. I learned the hard way that spills and dropped objects (think broken hen eggs) will happen more frequently as we get older. I ripped out ALL the carpet and replaced with ceramic tile and vinyl planks. Almost zero maintenance. We have one of them so-called robot vacuum cleaners that does an acceptable job on stuff that the wife's wheel chair tracks in from outside. X2 on the pocket doors. Opening a conventional door from a wheelchair is a pain. drive up to the door, open until door hits chair..back up, open door further,,,repeat up to 3 times..Ramps...Just say no if possible..otherwise keep them small as possible. Going down a ramp is a snap, up requires the arms of a weight lifter unless you have a slave to push..
On the subject of wheel chairs.. we have 20 years of experience on every kind of mobility device known to man. Glad to share..
Heating...We have a wood stove with propane furnace backup. Stove sits on a ceramic tile floor and is about a foot from an internal brick wall.  Think thermal mass. A ceiling fan overhead blowing downward  Keeps things toasty long after the fire has burned out..

pineywood is right on with the carpets and ceiling fans. Summer time I can bring that cool air into the house and listen to the wife about how cold it is. :o 

I took carpet out of everything I own including the rentals. Tile everywhere. Hard to hurt it.
In my house small area/throw rugs for accent that I can drag outside and hit with the hose when needing a cleaning.

As a rehab nurse, I learned that carpet & rugs are a trip hazard. As a senior citizen, my wife and I are learning it first hand. We have removed all carpet from our abode and when the new house is built, it will have wood floors. 

Quote from: Darrel on December 12, 2019, 12:45:57 PM
As a rehab nurse, I learned that carpet & rugs are a trip hazard. As a senior citizen, my wife and I are learning it first hand. We have removed all carpet from our abode and when the new house is built, it will have wood floors.

And all of a sudden we are senior citizens. When did that happen then I do something stupid while acting like I'm in my 20's or 30's and remember.
wheeliechair

Quote from: Raider Bill on December 12, 2019, 01:42:46 PMAnd all of a sudden we are senior citizens. When did that happen then I do something stupid while acting like I'm in my 20's or 30's and remember.

I resemble that!

Just more stuff to think about or you maybe already have.

We did mudsill and joists today on a small house, yellow poplar and red oak 11-1/4" x 1-1/2", sawed, dried, planed and ripped to final nominal dimension. We're using nailguns, watch the nail guage as well, diameter, depth and density of the wood are the keys there. Screws for framing are  a no-no unless they are structural screws, look for an "ESR" number on the box otherwise they are likely too brittle for structural use. We always want ductile failures (squeal, distort) rather than brittle (snap, whump). For proof of concept drive a nail and a screw in halfway and whack them back and forth with a hammer, most screws snap, no good. Many screws are good in withdrawal but worthless in shear.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/nailscrew006_zpsb754d950.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1545612596)

The black screw there is structural, that took considerable force to do that. The other screws are clearly inferior, nevertheless look at that ductile nail.

When this round of weather passes I have the 1x6 and 8" floor sheathing on my trailer on site for that and for the walls that will be applied diagonally to triangularize the frame. Many people have forgotten that necessity to properly brace the framing. The roof will be skip sheathed perpendicular to the rafters, the metal forms a diaphragm of bracing if well screwed, those screws are rated for that thanks to the post frame folks.

This has some good design stuff to review;
https://www.huduser.gov/publications/pdf/remodel.pdf (https://www.huduser.gov/publications/pdf/remodel.pdf)
In kitchen and bath I usually ring the walls with let in 2x6 or 8 at grab rail height in the framing rather than just blocking nailed between studs, big boy bars :D.

I was in my 20's when we built this peter pan house, I'll never grow old. DanG something happened along the way :D. I need to put a master and full bath downstairs.

Man I don't know what you did to the black Timber-loc in the middle of the photo ---I've never busted one, Yikes !
   We are debating build our third "forever home" I'm running out of gas...... :o

Wha, I was just pulling up a leaning 2 story house with it in a 90 :D
But yeah, normal structural steel  like for I beams and such is 36 or 50,000 lb tensile, those things are 90ksi steel.

Just as information I did some searching and found an air nailer that will shoot 4" nails:

Stanley-Bostitch N100C Nailer (http://www.amplesupply.com/catalog/tools_5/n100c-1-stanley-bostitch-heavy-duty-coil-nailer-n100c-1_239)

There are probably others but this is what I found.  I don't know the cost but I think that it is expensive.  ::)

One thing to think about, the cost of a nailer doesn't mean all that much. 10 boxes of nails is about the cost of a nailer. The availability and cost of the nails is what really matters. Mail ordering nails is not a good option when you run out at 4pm and have work to do tomorrow.

Quote from: Don P on December 12, 2019, 07:51:16 PM
Just more stuff to think about or you maybe already have.

We did mudsill and joists today on a small house, yellow poplar and red oak 11-1/4" x 1-1/2", sawed, dried, planed and ripped to final nominal dimension. We're using nailguns, watch the nail guage as well, diameter, depth and density of the wood are the keys there. Screws for framing are  a no-no unless they are structural screws, look for an "ESR" number on the box otherwise they are likely too brittle for structural use. We always want ductile failures (squeal, distort) rather than brittle (snap, whump). For proof of concept drive a nail and a screw in halfway and whack them back and forth with a hammer, most screws snap, no good. Many screws are good in withdrawal but worthless in shear.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/nailscrew006_zpsb754d950.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1545612596)

The black screw there is structural, that took considerable force to do that. The other screws are clearly inferior, nevertheless look at that ductile nail.

When this round of weather passes I have the 1x6 and 8" floor sheathing on my trailer on site for that and for the walls that will be applied diagonally to triangularize the frame. Many people have forgotten that necessity to properly brace the framing. The roof will be skip sheathed perpendicular to the rafters, the metal forms a diaphragm of bracing if well screwed, those screws are rated for that thanks to the post frame folks.

This has some good design stuff to review;
https://www.huduser.gov/publications/pdf/remodel.pdf (https://www.huduser.gov/publications/pdf/remodel.pdf)
In kitchen and bath I usually ring the walls with let in 2x6 or 8 at grab rail height in the framing rather than just blocking nailed between studs, big boy bars :D.

I was in my 20's when we built this peter pan house, I'll never grow old. DanG something happened along the way :D. I need to put a master and full bath downstairs.

And there I was thinking I did good using screws :-\
At least I used those stubby thumb mashing Simpson nails in all the brackets smiley_smash smiley_crying 

 :D Ruh roh, in the interest of educating the reader can I keep busting your groove. When you're using a hanger or one of those engineered connections, get on their website or look it up in the catalog and see what nails it calls for. Rarely is that the right nail, usually it is a derated connection to be used when you can't use the preferred length nail for some reason. A lot of this is better/best but it is always good to know where you are in that range and go for best if you can. For instance where you used them "best" was likely a 10dx3" nail which is also cheaper, and long enough to not bust your thumbs. I've seen roofing nails and deck screws used in those connectors, even aluminum nails. Outside of decay most residential failures are connection failures rather than the lumber itself.

What still kills me about those simpson brackets. Why? When we built my parents house everything was toenailed where it needed to be. The house is still standing proud today. It is just funny that something that worked for so long, and so well, is now frowned upon.

Oh yea, and before nail guns 2x4's got 2 nails each end and 2x6 got 2 or 3 depending on the connection. With nail guns that number seems to have doubled or even tripled. I have seen builders use 6 or 7 nails bridging a gap when they cut a 2x a half inch to short instead of just cutting another 2x.

Oh Don, DanG! it.... Now I'm going to be looking up every time the wind blows. Thought I was safe before.

In truth after mashing my thumbs about 50 times I got Simpson brand screws :D :D

Crusiarus,

I substituted knowledge and experience with extra fasteners and concrete. 8)

This will be a great adventure and should be a blast!

If you don't already have it I can't recommend this book (Independent Builder) highly enough: By Sam Clark - Independent Builder: Designing & Building a House Your Own Way, 2nd Edition (Revised second edition) (9.1.1996): Sam Clark: Amazon.com: Books (https://www.amazon.com/Sam-Clark-Independent-Designing-Building/dp/B00HTK0UGI)

I got it when I was nearly done building my house and wish I'd had it before I started. Good down to earth recommendations and explanations of why and how. From site planning, to design, the actual construction process and down to the finish details. It's much more than just a boring how-to book and I still find myself pulling it off the shelf often to see what he's got to say about this or that.

Also includes a chapter about making a house more easily accessible for the elderly....not that we have any of those here.

Have fun!

Alan

Quote from: Don P on December 13, 2019, 01:51:24 PM
One thing to think about, the cost of a nailer doesn't mean all that much. 10 boxes of nails is about the cost of a nailer.

When I was getting ready to do my house I, of course, wanted to do it on the cheap and didn't want to pony up for a nail gun. Thought seriously about renting one from the local hardware store when I got to the framing stage. Finally decided to buy one thinking I would just sell it when I was done.
Well, a few 10,000 nails later I've still got that nail gun with no plans of giving it up (actually I have more than one now). Sometimes hand nailing is kind of fun and therapeutic but you can't beat the speed of a nail gun when there's a lot to do (sheathing!) and it's so handy when you're working by yourself to simply swing the nail gun up and tack something in place while you're awkwardly holding it. Kind of like having that third hand you always wish you had.
Alan

Quote from: EOTE on December 10, 2019, 11:06:41 PM.  Our design calls for a 4' wide porch around the most of the house but the main floor is currently planned to be about 3' above grade.

I too am following your journey and admire your ambition!
My wife and I built our home in 1988/1989 with intentions of staying here as long as we are able.  We planned our house after talking with some older friends about accessibility.  We knew we would be doing some remodeling and or additions along the way but accessibility has been part of our plans all along.
You've gotten some great ideas here. The one thing that strikes me in reading your description of your home design is the porch width.  We originally had planned 6' wide porches that wrap around three sides of our house.  To save money, we decided to cut the porches to 5'.  While our porches are usable with rockers, chairs and tables the space to pass by is narrow.  If your porches are outdoor living areas, 4' is narrow.  If your porches are only covered walkways then 4' is ok.
Also, our house faces south.  The width of the porches is important to reduce solar heating in the summer and allows solar heating in the winter.  
I'm following your thread with interest and best wishes for success.

Quote from: SawyerTed on December 13, 2019, 06:02:10 PMYou've gotten some great ideas here. The one thing that strikes me in reading your description of your home design is the porch width.  We originally had planned 6' wide porches that wrap around three sides of our house.  To save money, we decided to cut the porches to 5'.  While our porches are usable with rockers, chairs and tables the space to pass by is narrow.  If your porches are outdoor living areas, 4' is narrow.  If your porches are only covered walkways then 4' is ok. Also, our house faces south.  The width of the porches is important to reduce solar heating in the summer and allows solar heating in the winter.  

This weekend was really busy so I didn't have a chance to check the forum but I see a lot more great suggestions and comments.  I am really learning from you all and thank you for it.  A word of caution though, I may not be able to use all of your great suggestions as I also have the second half to keep happy and I can present a lot of ideas but she has the final say...(you'd almost think she was the boss :D).  

I thought a little blurb about the porch all around the house might be in order here.  We decided on the 4' porch because its primary use will be as a walkway.  My wife is pure city girl and hates walking in grass and out here in East Texas, they have things called bugs and snakes which she has a total aversion to so the walkway is to alleviate as much contact with those critters as possible.  The primary outdoor focus will be the courtyard as you can see in the plans it is fairly large (24' x 36') and it will have a wall around it and will be where picnics, barbecues, lounging, etc. will take place.  It sits in front of a window wall on the sun room (roughly 30' wide window wall) and has retractable screens so it can safely be opened without inviting most critters in.  The one section of the porch is also screened in because the Master bedroom has a sliding door so I can step outside and smell the fresh air in the mornings without letting in the critters.  So you probably get some of the picture with the porch, courtyard and sun room design decisions.

From a perspective of the construction material, the porch will have the floor as part of the concrete slab with the rest of the house and will slope slightly away from the outer walls of the house for rain runoff.  We haven't decided on a finish for the porch floor but obviously non slip is a definite must.  The courtyard will have a slope as well and a polymer linear drain to carry off rain water.

The window wall will face West but won't get a lot of late afternoon sun because our surrounding pines are 90' to 120' tall and we are at the bottom of a large slope so the sun is starting to disappear between 4 and 6 pm depending on the time of year.  My wife also wants to plant some red oaks outside of the courtyard so they will be nice and tall around the time we are brown side up.

I hope that helps y'all understand the background on the porch.  Keep the great suggestions coming.

Early on in our planning, when we decided to build the house from the trees we cut on our own land, we also made the decision to use shiplap for sheathing the house instead of OSB or plywood.  This was based in part on seeing old homes that were built using shiplap and how they have held up better in the long term than those built with OSB or plywood.  However, we needed a way to process all the raw 1" x 6" and 1" x 8" boards into shiplap.  So with my penchant for doing POC's first to ensure our ability to make the shiplap, we decided to do the roof of the sawmill house with shiplap.  This gave us a 1200 square foot roof to cover which meant processing approximately 250 - 1" x 6" x 12' boards into shiplap.

Our first run of boards were first sized with a compound miter saw set up between two skate wheel conveyors.  Next, the boards were thickness planed on both sides to 7/8" thickness.  Last, they were run through the table saw using a dado blade set to cut a 1/2" wide 7/16" deep lap joint.  We found that this part of the process literally wore us out manually pushing the boards through.  So we decided to invest in a power feed for the table saw.  We found we could feed the boards through at 108 feet per minute and cut all the boards needed for the sawmill house roof in about 2 hours.

Are we saving anything on using shiplap instead of plywood or OSB?  Probably not.  But we can say we did it, we built our home from scratch.  POC's also pay off when deciding feasibility or process.  





(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20190513_192542.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576630567)
 

This is half of the "1 x 6" boards after sizing and ready for planing.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20190506_181732.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576631499)
 

The shiplap after processing... 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20191217_172856.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576632062)
 

Here it is being used to sheath the sawmill house roof.

Shear, structural  engineering ? Will this pass your county ?Why did you not go full T&G ?

Quote from: tule peak timber on December 17, 2019, 09:09:35 PM
Shear, structural  engineering ? Will this pass your county ?Why did you not go full T&G ?

In our part of Texas, we do not need county approval for building structures.  However, I always try to meet or exceed structural standards from the different building trades groups and professional associations because quite honestly, I don't want to have structural problems.  Although I spent my last 24 years in the IT industry, my schooling was in Mechanical Engineering.

Shiplap was very common for sheathing homes and other structures prior to the advent of plywood, OSB and other structured materials.  Many homes in this area are more than a hundred years old and have held up better than newer ones using modern structured materials.  

I chose not to go full T&G simply because of the extra work involved. 

Well good luck, I look forward to following your thread.  Rob

Building at or above code minimums is also something to think about insurance wise.
Back down in the weeds a little bit;
Board sheathing, being longer bracing, performs better than 4x8 sheets in the mind of the couple of engineers I've talked to about it. That is if it is diagonal to the framing. I suspect that if all edges of sheet goods are blocked and all else is equal they are similar in performance. There is no edge treatment required on sheathing boards. This isn't a great blowup from yesterday but shows just planed rough edged subfloor sheathing.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/floorsheath.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1576672447)
 
The finish floor will be T&G running perpendicular to the framing. If you go to code minimum a floor can be just T&G with end matching nailed directly to the joists, no subfloor. I've lived in that house, don't go there. The walls here will get the same diagonal square edged sheathing under B&B siding. For that reference R602.10.4 method DWB, diagonal wood boards, 3/4" thick minimum with 2  nails per stud 2-1/2" x.113" diameter min. (aside, notice in the footnotes there, adhesive attachment is prohibited in seismic C and above, you actually want the wall to absorb some of that motion, damping, making the wall too stiff there overstresses other elements, think crack the whip). We'll use tyvek to do the wind blocking and tarpaper under the flooring. The roof will be done perpendicular to the framing like EOTE's above, the metal sheets will form that bracing. This is all getting inspected, I've been through this part of the code a lot.

two thumbs up keep us posted

Some random notes on our progress...

Christmas holidays found me with a nasty cold that sidelined me from getting any work done for almost 2 weeks.  However, I am planning on laying out the home site this week and recording all the elevations etc. in anticipation of site prep.

I am planning on setting up my green laser on a permanent steel pole that will allow a standard site elevation reading from anywhere in the clearing where the house will be built.  This will be immensely valuable when trenching in all the utilities as well as the foundation work.  

I located two 24" diameter shortleaf pine trees on our lower 10 acres that are between 100' and 120' feet in height with no branches for at least 80' and are about as straight as a pool cue.  I am planning on dropping them for some needed 20' lengths of 2" x 4" and 2" x 6" s.  I've had to cut almost a 1000' access road through the undergrowth to get to them and also cut up a downed elm tree (blew over this spring) that should produce some nice boards.  Both have a pretty clear drop zone so hopefully I will have them bucked and to the sawmill site by next week.

Hopefully we will have the site prep done by February depending on how much rain we end up getting.  

This last week we finally had a forecast for some rain which we haven't gotten enough of the last 4 months.  Usually we get between 3" and 5" per month so while looking forward to rain, it was also an "oh shoot" moment where I realized I had to get a couple of trees dropped before the rain came...

I have needed some 20' lengths of 2" x 6" to make trusses for the sunroom of our home and had my eye on a couple of beauties down in the bottom land.  However, if we got rain, I knew my window of opportunity would close and I would have to wait for the next dry spell before I could attempt to drop them.

I had a few obstacles in my way including not having a road to those trees which was roughly 800' away from the nearest road and at the bottom of the hill.  So I walked the area and found what looked like an old logging road that had grown over with lots of undergrowth but the slope was pretty gentle.  It took a couple of days of work to clear the road to the bottom land.  Next, there was a 15" elm tree that had fallen across the dry creek right where the road reaches the bottom land.  I was able to limb it and actually reclaim 6 - 8' logs.  I spent the next day clearing the drop zone for the first tree.  I cleared an area exactly opposite of where I originally intended to drop the first tree because the undergrowth was lighter and there was minimal contact with other trees in the area.  On the right of the drop zone is a 30" diameter shortleaf pine with a pretty gnarly top and on the left of the drop zone was numerous young pines that stood 70' to 80' high as well as a mix of young hardwood trees.

I dropped the tree and it measured 110' in height, 24" in diameter, had 58 rings and was literally straight as an arrow.  I cut out 1 - 20' log and 5 - 12' logs.  Now the fun started, as the 20' log and the next 12' log were too heavy for the 12 Mexicans to lift with the grapple.  (besides, my roads are only wide enough to allow me to carry 12' long logs back to the mill.) 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200107_120900.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1578964433)
 

I initially tried pulling the 20' log using some small wheels and my log tongs but backing up the hill became a balancing act.  Half way up the hill I gave up and tried dragging it with back blade.  Unfortunately, the blade couldn't lift the log high enough to get one end off the ground.  By then it was dark so I gave up until the next day.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200107_162300.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1578964459)


In the morning I decided to upgrade the Taco box mount with a grab hook so I could lift the log off the ground.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200108_085900.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1578965401)
 

The net result was successful lifting of the front of the log.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200108_100039.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1578965451)
 

Next, I grabbed one of the 12' logs with the grapple to provide counter weight for the tractor and was able to make the 1/2 mile trip back to the mill without any tipping or instability.

After moving the rest of the logs to a high ground staging area, I cleared the drop zone for the second tree and successfully dropped it.  It was a stunning 120' tall, 26" in diameter, only 48 rings, and yielded one 20' log and 6 - 12' logs for a total of 92' of usable wood!


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200109_112708.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1578966154)
 

4 days of work to get 2 trees down and hauled to the mill, just in time for the rains to hit.  Now we have a week of rain in the forecast so I am waiting for it to clear so I can saw up the logs.  I estimated the two trees will net almost 5,000 board feet of lumber.

Nice pile of logs there. Nice piece of land there too. I have some level ground, but what some I have, the rocks stick up in it.

Nice looking logs, ambitious project, good luck with it.
Was there almost 30 years ago doing the same thing except I hired a bandsaw 
to come on the property to saw the logs. Also because of the need to get a building
up quick after the land purchase we bought the framing lumber and sheathing 
from the local lumber yard.
However all the interior lumber for trim, some walls and ceilings, cabinets
and most of the flooring both hard and softwood came from wood i cut off the property milled and planed here. 
The garage which came years later was all built from wood off the property .
In retrospect, the garage should have been built first had I not been in a hurry to
get the house up.
I had some big pine logs that I could lift by the butt, some 30 " using 2 chains. One chain wrapped around the butt and 
cinched tight with a grab hook, the other chain with 2 grab hooks, each grab hook hooked to the butt chain 
down low on both sides of the log. 
Saved a ton of money doing things this way and as long as one has the energy, time and patience it 
is a satisfying and money saving way to go. No regrets here.

Your pine sure looks like lobloLLy and not shortleaf :).  Still, very nice logs.  

Quote from: thecfarm on January 14, 2020, 05:44:56 AMNice pile of logs there. Nice piece of land there too. I have some level ground, but what some I have, the rocks stick up in it.

I am very fortunate on this piece of land to have deep soil (thanks to my uphill neighbors ;D).  We have some rocks but most of them I've imported from my uphill neighbors to act as water breaks to prevent my soil from washing down to the down hill neighbors. Soil is mixed, usually a deep sandy loam with a red dirt under base.  Rocks are iron ore. I have a creek on the south end of the property that has cut almost 20 feet deep in some areas.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20181112_132624.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1579022335)


Fortunately the soil is very stable for building purposes.

Oh, and here is what the bottom land looks like when it rains...that's the pine tree I took down.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20181112_125814.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1579023334)
 

Quote from: WDH on January 14, 2020, 07:51:39 AMYour pine sure looks like lobloLLy and not shortleaf .  Still, very nice logs.

Hi WDH, just wondering about your assessment of the log species...I don't claim to be an expert, actually the opposite, I believe I am a novice and am learning every day about the flora and fauna of my little piece of earth.  I was just wondering what are your identification criteria because I am no expert but I want to be knowledgeable.   Your input is really appreciated as it helps me to grow in my knowledge.  

Early on I learned to go to sources for help in identifying new discoveries as I have to plead ignorance when it comes to plant identification as well as a plethora of other topics so that is why am part of the Forestry Forum and why I am responding to your input.

For the trees on my land, I submitted some photos a couple of years ago to Stephen F. Austin University for identification.  They responded and also pointed me to a guide they published online for determining species.  

Below are links to SFASU's identification guide for Loblolly and Shortleaf pine.

Shortleaf pine - SFASU - Shortleaf Pine Identification (https://forestryforum.com/board/forestry.sfasu.edu/faculty/stovall/dendrology/index.php/fact-sheets-sp-916/photographs/276-pinus-echinata-shortleaf-pine)

Loblolly pine - SFASU - Loblolly Pine Identification (http://forestry.sfasu.edu/faculty/stovall/dendrology/index.php/fact-sheets-sp-916/photographs/341-pinus-taeda-loblolly-pine)

These are pictures I submitted to them for identification:

Loblolly Pine

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20190115_160110~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1579107500)


Loblolly Pine

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20181217_131157~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1579106266)
 



Shortleaf Pine

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20190115_160104~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1579105846)
 

Shortleaf Pine

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20181217_125647~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1579106458)
 


Here is a closeup of the pine logs I brought to my sawmill last week:

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200115_105338.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1579109355)


So you have me second guessing what I am cutting and looking at.  Any Thoughts?

Yes sir.  LobloLLy pine cones are about the size of your closed fist, maybe a bit bigger.  Shortleaf cones are much smaller, about the size of a lemon or half the size of your fist.  LobLLoly needles are 6" to 8" long, and are in bundles of three.  Shortleaf needles are 3" to 5" long and are in bundles of mostly two's, sometimes threes, and they can be mixed on the same branch.  Also, the bark of shortleaf pine has pitch pockets, lobLLoly bark does not.  Pitch pockets look like little mini-craters, like the ones on the moon.  They are small, about the diameter of a grain of rice.  Check out the pic of shortleaf bark in this link and you will see some of the distinctive little crater-like pitch pockets.




The reason that I suspected your tree in the pic was lobLLoly was that the needles looked a bit too long to be shortleaf, but, the crown was a long way away in the pic, and I could be mistaken.  Go look at the needles and see how long they are.  LobLLoly needles are always in threes's, never two's.  You will have mostly two's on shortleaf as well as some three's.  Cone size is a dead give-away as lobLLoly cones are three times the size of shortleaf cones. 

I finally have gotten all the obstacles (i.e. prerequisite projects) out of the way so next week I will start site prep for the new home.  I have approximately 400 cubic yards of soil to move for leveling and site contouring.  After which I will trench for all the utilities (water, septic, and power) and then install the plumbing and electrical feed.

When I originally built my barn, I installed a large enough feed and electrical boxes so I can branch from the barn to the house with a 200 amp feed that is separate from the barn's electrical service.

Also since we use rainwater collection, we have 15K gallon reserve tanks and a water purification system so potable water will be plumbed from the barn to the house.

Here is our rainwater storage system.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20170805_173158.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1580087645)
 

The septic system was put in when we built the barn in anticipation of both the house and the barn being hooked to the system.

We originally cleared a 100' fire break around the home site but since we changed the location slightly, I will have to extend the firebreak around the perimeter another 30' on 2 sides which means a lot more land clearing and trees coming down.  Hopefully this will go without too many difficulties.

Quote from: EOTE on January 26, 2020, 08:26:00 PMAlso since we use rainwater collection, we have 15K gallon reserve tanks and a water purification system so potable water will be plumbed from the barn to the house.

Can you tell us more about this?  How much maintenance is required?  My well produces super iron rich water so not great for drinking.  I could do rain (snow) collection and have a separate potable water system from the shower/toilet system.

Great project! Thank you for bringing us along for the ride.

A couple of thoughts.  First, a 3 or 5 hp shaper with a power feeder will give you the flexibility for make T&G. Even better would be to purchase a moulder and then resell it when you are done. I recall that a Baker M412 was advertised here not too long ago and it included a lot of tooling.

If you ever want to utilize the upstairs, think about incorporating an elevator into your plans.

For some reason your master bedroom struck me as a little small. If you have dressers, etc around the perimeter, a king size bed, and room for a walker to easily maneuver around you might want to consider something larger.

Quote from: ljohnsaw on January 26, 2020, 10:04:28 PM

Quote from: EOTE on January 26, 2020, 08:26:00 PMAlso since we use rainwater collection, we have 15K gallon reserve tanks and a water purification system so potable water will be plumbed from the barn to the house.

Can you tell us more about this?  How much maintenance is required?  My well produces super iron rich water so not great for drinking.  I could do rain (snow) collection and have a separate potable water system from the shower/toilet system.

Hi Ljohnsaw,
First, on rainwater collection, check your local and state laws.  I understand some places outlaw rainwater collection.  Here it Texas they actually promote it.

When we started looking at water options on our land, we found two abandoned wells which the people before us actually damaged by having the land cleared with a bulldozer.  The dozer operator didn't know the wells existed and so he crushed the stand pipes on the wells.  Cost of remediation on unknown wells or drilling a new one was a minimum of 12K.  

When we calculated how much water we could generate from the roof area of our barn design using the historical rainfall data, we calculated that our barn would capture as much as 84K gallons of water per year.  When we calculated our historical usage at our home in central Texas including irrigation, we averaged about 3300 gallons per month.  Based on that data we wanted to have a reserve of at least 5 months or 15K gallons.  

The system is pretty simple and straight forward...the barn roof has gutters on both sides and under the downspouts (5 each on either side) we fitted a pre-screen water collector plumbed into 4" diameter pvc pipe.  The water flows down the pipe to a U-shaped pipe that acts as a first flush to catch roughly the first 20 to 50 gallons and dump it off and not into the tanks.  Although we have 3 tanks, we only plumbed the water flow to the outer two tanks.  The two outer tanks have basket strainers between the pipes and the water in the tank.  All three tanks are plumbed together so the outer tanks actually fill the inner tank.

All three tanks have overflow plumbing so when the tanks are full, the water will flow out of the overflow pipe.

Yes, your tanks will have dissolved bird poop, ash, dust, pollen, etc. flow into them from the gutters.  However, it is the water purification system that is the workhorse.  The water flow from the tanks into the barn passes through a back-flow preventer and a water meter to a shallow well pump.  The pump has a 100 gallon pressure tank attached and maintains between 30 and 50 psi.  The water from the pump flows through a purification system manufactured by Aquasana.  It sports a 35 micron pre-filter, a carbon filter, a 10 micron post filter, and an ultraviolet irradiation module.  
Water tests for over 180 contaminants has shown the water to be near distilled quality with no minerals, salts, pesticides, or other potentially harmful materials.  We "slam" the tanks quarterly using 1 gallon of bleach per tank and the pre and post filters are also changed quarterly.  Shut off valves allow me to isolate any part of the system for maintenance.

Note:  We just checked for sediment in the tanks and there is so little we have no need of cleaning the bottom of the tanks at this point (3 years after installation).


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20170805_173158.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1580087645)
 


This photo shows the details of the water collection plumbing.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20170602_182721.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1580098003)
 

Here is a view (although a poor one) of the water purification system.  We originally had only a 20 gallon pressure tank but the pump cycled too often so we added a 100 gallon pressure tank to the system.
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/2017-07-15_14_27_42.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1580097179)


This is the screen I used to keep critters from getting into the overflow pipe.
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20170730_101205.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1580097293)
 


During our first winter we found that we had to insulate the pipes and valves.  We used regular pipe insulation overlaid with aluminized bubblewrap (R-5) to prevent the pipes from freezing.  I have in the plans a temperature controlled recirculation system that will kick in at 30 degrees.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20171209_114857.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1580098025)
 

Total cost of tanks, plumbing, and water purification system was about $7,500.

Quote from: scsmith42 on January 26, 2020, 10:13:53 PM
Great project! Thank you for bringing us along for the ride.

A couple of thoughts.  First, a 3 or 5 hp shaper with a power feeder will give you the flexibility for make T&G. Even better would be to purchase a moulder and then resell it when you are done. I recall that a Baker M412 was advertised here not too long ago and it included a lot of tooling.

If you ever want to utilize the upstairs, think about incorporating an elevator into your plans.

For some reason your master bedroom struck me as a little small. If you have dressers, etc around the perimeter, a king size bed, and room for a walker to easily maneuver around you might want to consider something larger.

SCSmith42, those are good thoughts and ideas. Thank you.

We are still exploring options for the T&G at this point.  My original POC was using my Triton router (mounted on my table saw router table extension) and using the Powermatic power feed to push the boards through the router in two passes.  The router is a 3 1/4 hp Triton and the power feed can push the boards through at 38 fpm with no overloading on the router.  I am not sure how many board feet of T&G the router can withstand but I am expecting to process somewhere around 1500 board feet.  We also could use the table saw to create the tongue but it would require an additional pass and flipping the board.  

We are currently using the table saw to process shiplap and it handles it with ease.  I can feed the boards at 108 fpm with no problems.  I just changed the style of dado blades I am using as the chips coming off of the old dado set were interlocking and clogging the vacuum port.

The Master bedroom is actually larger that what we have now so I am expecting our existing furniture to fit quite easily with plenty of walking room around the bed even with the existing dressers.  We did measure for accessibility as that was raised early on in this thread so we've had to rethink some of the accessibility issues in the house plans.

Quote from: EOTE on January 26, 2020, 11:28:05 PMThe water flows down the pipe to a U-shaped pipe that acts as a first flush to catch roughly the first 20 to 50 gallons and dump it off and not into the tanks.

Thanks for the details.  I spent $22k on my well and, while safe to drink, doesn't taste so good.

I'm guessing that is a manual thing?  You keep it drained and when it starts to rain, it fills up to be drained after the rain stops?  Pretty simple.

We drank roof runoff water from a cistern, no filters nor purification and guess what?  All of my ancestors, parents, and everyone else during that era lived.  Maybe bird poop and frog pee is good for you.  ::)

MM,

If you can eat that pickled bolagna, then that water should be just fine :). 

I would talk.....

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/IMG_1848.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1486167389)
 
Fact is, I think that Jeff was trying to kill us all off.  :o

Quote from: ljohnsaw on January 27, 2020, 02:00:00 AMI'm guessing that is a manual thing?  You keep it drained and when it starts to rain, it fills up to be drained after the rain stops?  Pretty simple.

Its a semi-manual process.  I just leave the caps on loose and they will drain out after the storm from slow leakage.

Quote from: WDH on January 27, 2020, 08:03:57 AM
MM,

If you can eat that pickled bolagna, then that water should be just fine :).

That's a new one to me...pickled bologna.  I like the garlic bologna from Boars Head.

I finally started the site prep today... got the stakes in for the corners of the house, made an elevation map, and basically dragged a blade across the site to highlight where I am going to start excavating.  I moved my sawmill from where I have sawn logs for the last 2 years.

I estimate that I have to move approximately 200 cubic yards to level the home site and another 200 to contour the surrounding area.  12 Mexicans with a 1/4 yard bucket.  Yee haw!

Here is a view before and after from the same location.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200203_092807.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1580778971)
 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200203_144529.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1580778973)


Next steps are to move the pile of scrap metal, cedar tree (unfortunately it is right at the corner of the home site), dog house, dog, and cable run.  Then I plan to excavate around the home site to level grade for reference.  The East side is close to grade with a slight hump in between.  The Northwest corner will require the most excavation to grade (about 45").  

Here in East Texas, everyone tells me to excavate, not fill for foundations and slabs as the soil is most stable that way.  I followed that advice when I excavated for the barn and have no cracks in the concrete after 3 years.  I also did the same on the sawmill house and drying house.

That will put the house on a grade about 8" above the grade of the barn.

Up here we get a lot of frost heave and cutting into ground to build on undisturbed soil is preferred. However, I am thinking frost heave is not a real big issue for y'all. :) I think if you fill and grade and PACK properly, you should be fine. I assume you will have some time between site grading and pouring, right? Have you looked into the historical flood zones? In TX I know that big storm runoff can be a real issue.
Nice patch of ground you have there.

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on February 03, 2020, 08:50:54 PM
Up here we get a lot of frost heave and cutting into ground to build on undisturbed soil is preferred. However, I am thinking frost heave is not a real big issue for y'all. :) I think if you fill and grade and PACK properly, you should be fine. I assume you will have some time between site grading and pouring, right? Have you looked into the historical flood zones? In TX I know that big storm runoff can be a real issue.
Nice patch of ground you have there.

Fortunately where I am at I would have to thumb a ride with Noah if we ever got flooded.   We are well above any flood plains. I've checked all the soil maps as well and the home site is actually the most stable soil on our land.  
Our neighbor to the West is about 200 feet above us and I think we have inherited most of his prime top soil from run off over the years. :D  That's probably what we're building our home on.  ;D

Quote from: EOTE on February 03, 2020, 09:07:11 PM
Our neighbor to the West is about 200 feet above us and I think we have inherited most of his prime top soil from run off over the years. :D 

Geez, your neighbor must live on one of the tallest mountains in Texas!

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on February 03, 2020, 09:29:47 PM

Quote from: EOTE on February 03, 2020, 09:07:11 PM
Our neighbor to the West is about 200 feet above us and I think we have inherited most of his prime top soil from run off over the years. :D

Geez, your neighbor must live on one of the tallest mountains in Texas!

:D

Got to actually cutting grade around the construction site today.  I welded a bracket to the barn awning post so I can mount my laser level on it.  After calibration and testing, I can take it off and put it back on the bracket and it points to the same spot every time.  I have a white reference strip on a tree about 100 yards away and it matches every time!


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200204_175102.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1580864725)
 

Anyway, I cut the East and south sides of the site today.  I still have to cut a little to make it exactly to grade but it was a good start.  I am running into some roots and stumps from clearing the land a couple of years ago but the 12 Mexicans seem to be handling it pretty well.  If I run into something it can't cut (like the remains of this cedar stump), I have a stump grinder which will allow me to grind it down as much as 10" below grade.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200204_164106.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1580864890)
 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200204_164121.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1580864741)
 

Over the weekend I was able to level the perimeter on three sides.  However, with all the rain this week, I had to postpone site excavation and move to an indoor project.  


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200210_073244.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1581480969)


I have to process about 6,000 bd. ft. of 1" x 6" and 1" x 8" into shiplap.  The first step is moving the pallets of wood to the barn and sizing each board to 12' length.  This is about 20% of the total I have to process.  The next step is to plane to thickness, and then cut the rabbet on both sides of the board.  I get to handle each board enough times to be on a first name basis with them  :D.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200211_181538.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1581481030)
 

the guys on here with moulders must be going nuts knowing they could make your finished product in 1 pass at about 50 lf per minute :)

Quote from: 1938farmall on February 12, 2020, 10:52:29 AM
the guys on here with moulders must be going nuts knowing they could make your finished product in 1 pass at about 50 lf per minute :)

A lot of our decisions are based on what we want to do but then we have to deal with the reality of what can we afford.  I can afford spending a lot of my time and labor but not so much of my money.  When it comes to equipment, the immediate need has to be balanced with what the long term need will be.

Processing 6000 bf by hand on a planer and table saw will take several days but in the end, I'm more physically fit, and that planer/moulder I could have had for $xxx would be sitting there where as the planer and table saw will always have a use.  I also have the satisfaction that I did it and did a great job.

We all work with what we have.  ;)
I have a manual mill. I have no use for a full hyd mill unless someone else wants to buy it and maintain it. Not much can go bad on a manual mill. I only saw when I need an out building. Seems to be once every 2 years, I am sawing and building.

When I built my place in the woods(15yrs ago) I used shop lap too. Every piece done on my old table saw. It took a little time and work, but the end results were great 

I have done the hard labor route too, but the end result has been by my own hand and very satisfying. 

After 3 1/2" of rain we finally started drying out to where I could get back to site excavation.  My plan is to cut the home site perimeter to grade and then excavate the home site proper to grade.  To accomplish this I had to remove a Cedar tree on the northwest corner and move the dog house and cable run.
Got that all done on Sunday and went to grind down the cedar stump and blew a hydraulic line.  Nobody open on Sunday who can make the hose so I had to wait until Monday.

Got the new hose on Monday and installed it, hooked up the stump grinder and the end of the new hose blew off.  Now the back of the tractor and the stump grinder are completely oiled and I have to remove and reinstall the hose in the field.  I finally got the hose replaced and ground down the stump.

So now I have 3 sides of the perimeter excavated and the rain started back up.  I will spend the next couple of days inside on the shiplap manufacturing process.

Here is what the home site looks like.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200218_162709.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1582081169)
 

Here is my excavation partner...I call her my Red Dirt Girl.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200218_145951.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1582081135)
 

This week started out with more rain (for 3 days).  The rain finally let up after 4 inches so the last couple of days the soil has been drying and firming up.  I am hoping to continue the excavation tomorrow. My hope is to try and make a big dent in it this week.  I would probably be fooling myself to say that I could complete it this week but it looks like 7 days with no rain in the forecast so we will see how far I can get.

I spent the week turning 1" x 6"s and 1" x 8"s into shiplap.  I ended with a bit over 2,000 board feet.

Here is the stack of boards after sizing.  


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200211_181538.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1581481030)
 


I had to take about a half a day and tune the planer.  It was always hard to feed boards through but it just got worse over time.  It turns out the in-feed roller was out of spec and probably came from the factory that way.  Once I corrected that, cleaned the rollers, and did some experimenting with the tension adjustments on the in-feed and out-feed rollers, I got it to work flawlessly.  Oh, I tried a different wax which had a tremendous positive effect on the feed.  I was able to feed the boards at the fastest feed rate and do 2 and 3 at a time.  In testing a sample throughout the thickness planing process, the boards all came within .005 of my set thickness.

This is the wax that works wonders on the planer bed!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200220_121346.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1582501223)
 

My pallet size is based on how much the 12 Mexicans can lift so each pallet is betwen 1600 and 1800 lbs.
The partial pallet will wait until I have to do more indoor work and take on another 2,000 board feet.

The finished shiplap heading to storage.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200223_172334.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1582500682)
 

What type of planer ?

Quote from: tule peak timber on February 23, 2020, 06:51:54 PM
What type of planer ?

It's a Jet 20" helical head planer. 5 hp single phase 240 volt that I bought new last year.

That should see you through....Are you planing after drying ?

Quote from: tule peak timber on February 23, 2020, 07:18:07 PM
That should see you through....Are you planing after drying ?

Yes, what I planed this week was sawn a year ago and moisture content was about 8%.  All my lumber is air dried.

Here is what 2,000 board feet of shiplap generate in wood chips, shavings, and sawdust.  (9 cubic yard trailer full to the top).

I run my 2 hp. vacuum with 5" flexible ducts outside to the 14' dump trailer.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200223_113031.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1582551426)
 

If you do much planing at all, that is why you might not want to use a dust collector that depends on bags  :) .  

Well, I was able to get back to excavating this last several days and finished the excavation and rough grade.  Instead of excavating 200 + yards of soil, I ended up excavating ~ 550 cubic yards.  Rough grade is within +/- 2 inches.

Here is where things stood last Tuesday.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200218_162709.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1582081169)
 


This is what it looked like end of day Wednesday.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200227_145845.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1583376097)
 

This was end of day Sunday.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200302_152703.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1583376094)
 

Here is end of day Tuesday.  Finally got the site excavated and rough graded.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200303_134042~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1583376945)
 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200303_111730.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1583376099)
 

Most of the dirt went to the south end of the clearing where it was low so I was able to build it up a bit closer to grade.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200303_134014.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1583376101)
 

Here is today after 1-1/2" of rain...


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/March_3_after_one_and_one_half_inches_of_rain.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1583376604)



So when it dries down (hopefully this weekend), I will start finish grading.  After that, the west side of the building site has a 4 foot high wall which I need to contour back to the trees so I will have to move another 300 to 400 cubic yards of soil.  This will be stockpiled on the south end of the clearing for backfill around the foundation when it has been put in.

After that I can hopefully start laying out the foundation and utilities.

you did all that with the box blade and bucket on the Kubota? 

What I wouldn't give for soil like that. I have rocks tree roots and black clay. When it finally drys out enough to get on it with the tractor it is like concrete and unworkable.

A good job making it level. I have to agree on the rock part. Good soil you have there for rocks. I leveled out one part on my land, probably a quarter size of what you did. Yes, there was rocks, but I was able to get most of them out and smooth it out. It was a very rough part that we wanted to mow. I am claiming back an old pasture and some places I can't even drive my tractor between the rocks.

Quote from: Crusarius on March 05, 2020, 06:42:15 AM
you did all that with the box blade and bucket on the Kubota?

What I wouldn't give for soil like that. I have rocks tree roots and black clay. When it finally drys out enough to get on it with the tractor it is like concrete and unworkable.

I am definitely blessed with good soil here.  There are no rocks to speak of.  The only thing I ran into is old tree stumps from when we cleared the land 2 years ago.  Most of them the bucket cut right through but there were about 15 of them that I had to put the stump grinder on and cut down below the surface.  The area I cleared is a little over 100' x 100' feet.  The area where the water pooled was very soft because of the moisture content.  I found while digging that I would sink 6" to a foot so I would have to constantly backfill my tire tracks.  Fortunately, the soil is very stable and does not erode quickly.

I used some of the excavated soil to expand my parking area in front of the barn last week so I went to pick up gravel (200 miles one way) on Friday to cover the area.  My 16K trailer does a good job of hauling road mix as I can get between 5 and 6 tons at a time.  Unfortunately, my trailer blew two tires on the way from the gravel pit.  Now this is the second set of tires provided by the manufacturer under warranty and I have only 13,000 miles on the trailer since I bought it.  So now I am faced with the dilemma of replacing the tires with the same size (they were out of warranty by a few months) or upgrade the trailer so I don't have this recurring problem.

Fortunately the tires gave out while entering a small town along the way so I was able to leave the trailer in a parking lot and come back to EOTE for tools.  Unfortunately, my 3 ton jack couldn't lift a single wheel with the load of gravel so I had to give up until the next day.  After contemplating the different options at my disposal, I decided to get rid of the stock tires (load range G with a rating of 4005 pounds per tire max) and upgrade to tires with a load range H (4900 pounds per tire max).  So Saturday morning I loaded extra tools including the 20 ton jack out of my hydraulic press and I drove a hundred miles out of my way to pick up a new set of tires and wheels for the trailer.  After picking them up, I had to drive back to where the trailer was parked (80 miles from EOTE) and put the new tires on.  So by 3 in the afternoon, I finally got the trailer tires swapped, and back on the road with the gravel.  We got in around 6 pm but essentially the whole weekend was spent as well as $1,500 trying to haul $40 worth of gravel for my parking area.

Sometimes we have learning experiences that challenge us.  So I am back tonight at my home in central Texas and will pick up a second load of gravel to finish out the parking area.  Hopefully after that, the building site will be dried out enough for me to do the finish leveling to grade this week.

The forecast is for 10 days of rain so I am not going to get much progress done on the site prep.  I finished the fine leveling and am within +/- 1-1/2" so I am pretty happy to be able to get it that close without a grader.  Next up, excavating and contouring around the western perimeter and trenching for utilities.  I am hoping during lulls in the rain to plant grass on the areas I've already contoured to prevent erosion.  I bought some excelsior matt to help hold the soil on the slopes and encourage the grass seed to germinate.  I will probably use annual rye and coastal bermuda grass.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/10_day_weather_forecast.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1584063907)
 

Indoor work is to switch gears and continue making shiplap.  Only 4,000 board feet to go.

I was able to extend my parking area a bit by filling the area with some of the excavated soil from the building site.  Hauled 4 loads of gravel and got it graded before the rains.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200316_175231.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1584668039)
 

I got to do some finish contouring on some of the area where I put down the excavated soil.  Got it seeded and erosion mat put down before the rain hit.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200319_102301.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1584667920)


We're expecting over 2" of rain over the weekend but next week looks like it is going to dry out again so I can get back to site prep, excavation on the west side of the perimeter and maybe start laying out the batter boards and forms.

Like a lot of places in the country, we are having lots of rain which is preventing me from working on the concrete forms, although I did get my batter boards in and everything measured out.  10 more days of rain in the forecast.  To think I had plans to have the concrete poured by the end of March. :)  I will be lucky to have it poured by the end of May at this rate.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200327_170255.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1585857220)


The grass that I sowed on the built up and contoured area is coming up nicely with the rain.

 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200402_134433.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1585857188)
 

So I will probably work on finishing out the shiplap this week since that is pretty much an indoor project.

The rain finally let up a bit and today was sunny so the building site firmed up.  
I finally got to start putting in the forms.  I am using tall stakes so I don't have to bend over.  Once the forms are in I will cut them off level with the grade.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200407_184131.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1586309098)
 

Tomorrow promises to be hot and humid but no rain so I should be able to make good progress.

No footer?

Taller stakes, brilliant!

Quote from: Raider Bill on April 08, 2020, 08:19:46 AM
No footer?

Concrete pads in this area are done a bit different because the ground is very stable to build on.  Once the site has been leveled, you can put your forms down. On this project, I will then come in with an excavator and install all the underground utilities 2' down.  A trench is dug around the perimeter for load bearing and where ever else one is needed.  Vapor barrier is installed and then rebar is set on 2' centers prior to pouring. No footers per se needed since the perimeter trenches act as the footers.  Concrete is spec'd at anywhere from 3500 psi to 5000 psi.

Here are some photos from when they did my drying and sawmill house's pads.  

I did the basic leveling on the area and the concrete contractor dug out the perimeter and did the rest.



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20180502_145231.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1586381195)
 

Since these were open air structures, no vapor barrier was installed.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20180502_145239.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1586381198)
 

Here they are pouring.  Prior to pouring they put in the rebar supports to hold it off the ground.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20180507_090655.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1586381209)
 

After the concrete was poured they installed the embeds that I had built for the 8 x 8 columns.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20180507_100622.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1586381212)

Heat and humidity made the day brutal for working outside.  But I got the North and East sides completed on the forms.  Hopefully I can progress tomorrow and finish the South side.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200408_182921.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1586396586)
 

How deep are those "trenches" along the forms? I guess I'd call them footers..
In your first pix it looked like you were pouring up to the forms with no "trenches"

Someone here on the FF I think years ago  laid mud on top of the ground then set block on top of that for a foundation. "I can't remember who" Said it was normal to do so in their area.I now pay attention to the ways other areas build in case I get the urge again.

Quote from: Raider Bill on April 09, 2020, 09:09:13 AMHow deep are those "trenches" along the forms? I guess I'd call them footers.. In your first pix it looked like you were pouring up to the forms with no "trenches"

On the sawmill house and drying house, the trenches (footings) were only about 12" deep.  On the house where I am putting up the forms now, they will be about 16" deep.  They won't be put in until after I put in all the utilities.

I'd call 16" trenches footers myself.

Also I've never seen the forms put in before digging. If I was doing the digging those form boards wouldn't last 5 minutes.

Those are called turndown footers. its basically a slab on grade with a thick edge. Common practice in places without a frostline, or a very shallow one.

I've heard that style called a mono-lithic slab/pour around here.  They're used here but the footings are 48" deep.

yea, a turndown is basically just the edge of the slab that goes from say 4" thick to 12" thick angling down. monolithic slab is a single pour with an actual solid wall that goes below the frostline. same basic concept just different terms for different demographics.

I learned all my structural knowledge in AZ. NY it is called a monolithic footing.

Same term in Florida.

The picture in original post threw me by seeing the form boards up with nothing dug.

Like I've said many times, if you want to see someone that's spastic on a hoe I'm your man. I have to dig first then form or all the boards would be tore up.

I'm more of a "dozer" guy myself..

Quote from: Raider Bill on April 09, 2020, 12:12:47 PM
Same term in Florida.

The picture in original post threw me by seeing the form boards up with nothing dug.

Like I've said many times, if you want to see someone that's spastic on a hoe I'm your man. I have to dig first then form or all the boards would be tore up.

I'm more of a "dozer" guy myself..

Its interesting because all the pads I see around here, the form boards go in first and digging is done with a mini-excavator.  I am guessing there has to be some finesse to the digging to prevent destroying the form boards.  The mini-ex usually has a 9-12" bucket.  

Finished the third side and am now working on the 4th side of the forms.  Unfortunately we have 2 days of rain starting tomorrow so it's back to making shiplap.  Fortunately this is the last batch of shiplap to make out of 6,000 board feet.  235 - 1" x 8" boards to plane and rabbet.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200410_185755.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1586577555)
 

Well, 4 pound hammers and I don't quite get along.  While pounding the reinforcing stakes for the concrete forms, I had the hammer deflect off the stake and hit me in the leg just above the ankle.  Its bad enough that it happened once but it happened twice.  Took about three days to "sink in" as now I am in a lot of pain and having to take a few days R & R to recover.  I've got to choose a better stance for pounding stakes.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200410_185755~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1586833834)
 

Quote from: EOTE on April 13, 2020, 11:12:19 PM
I've got to choose a better stance for pounding stakes.

Maybe bigger targets?
Catcher's shin guards?

Quote from: samandothers on April 14, 2020, 11:21:54 AM

Quote from: EOTE on April 13, 2020, 11:12:19 PM
I've got to choose a better stance for pounding stakes.

Maybe bigger targets?
Catcher's shin guards?

I liked your idea so much I decided to do some research and found a pair of MMA shin guards that might work - at least I will wear it while pounding the stakes and hopefully I won't "need" them.  :D

These stakes at a 45 degree angle are the ones that got me.  I had my foot on the spike end to keep it aligned and held down.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200408_092041.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1587525071)


I am going to try these out. 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200421_210924.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1587525136)
 

You would think the older we got, the better our aim...unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

So my leg was good enough to be walking so I finished up the west side of the forms and am now ready to start laying out the underground plumbing.

The shin guards worked...didn't hit myself once (maybe it made my aim better).  ;D


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200421_161619.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1587525539)
 

While I was recovering from whacking myself with a hammer while pounding stakes, I started hauling gravel to cover the road up to my sawmill house and drying house.  I use a 16K dump trailer and can haul up to 6 tons at a time.  Since my home in central Texas is only a couple miles from the largest gravel pit in Texas, I can get road base for $7 a ton.  In east Texas it is $57/ton.  Lots cheaper to haul it myself.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200421_120404.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1587894478)
 

Today I set stakes for all the plumbing stubs and marked out the trench lines for the plumbing.  I hope to start trenching on Monday or Tuesday at the latest.



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200425_141047.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1587894582)

It's coming along nicely, I love the work ethic. Keep it up!

Progress is being made!  You are doing a great job.  You are taking on a big project and it is great to follow you here.

Glad the catchers shin guards helped out, though I would not want to test them.

Quote from: rykermcdermott on April 26, 2020, 07:14:48 AM
It's coming along nicely, I love the work ethic. Keep it up!

Thank you for the kind words.  When we talk about work ethic, it's a whole different topic.  My 30 year old son says I don't have an "off" switch and admits that I can out work him easily even though he is a gym rat and can lift way more than I can.  
I learned the value of hard work at a young age and my father did a lot to instill that into me.  I remember when I was 13 my dad took me to the hardware store and bought me a lawn mower and then took me to his office supply store and handed me an empty address and appointment book.  He then told me not to come home until I had some mowing jobs.  By the end of the day I had 3 mowing jobs and by the end of the summer I was making $400 a month (in 1965) and I paid him back for the mower and book.  
During the school year he made me come down to his store and wash windows and sweep the floors.  Later on when I could drive I started making deliveries.  By the time I was 15 I was repairing and overhauling office machines.  
One of my first full time jobs (and first career) was as an ag equipment mechanic.  As you know, when the season is right the farmers would be out in the fields from sun up until sundown.  I learned when the work was there, that I was too, helping the farmers by fixing their equipment and getting them back to work.
That work ethic that I developed early on in life has stuck with me.  Now that I am retired and took on this project of building our dream home, there is often only one person that can do the work, and that is me.  My wife helps on the weekends but she is still working full time so I am the one making our dream come true.  Sure, I could hire someone to do the work, but at the end of the day, I can look with satisfaction at what I've accomplished and thank God for all the talents and abilities he has given me to accomplish our dream.  I know that my wife appreciates it too.

Quote from: samandothers on April 26, 2020, 10:42:51 AM
Progress is being made!  You are doing a great job.  You are taking on a big project and it is great to follow you here.

Glad the catchers shin guards helped out, though I would not want to test them.

Thank you for the kind words and encouragement.  When you are one man making a big dream/project come true, the progress can be quite literally painfully slow.
Thankfully, I have not tested the shin guards or the impact gloves but I've tested my hard hat, protective glasses and even my sawyer's leggings.  It's actually much easier learning safe work habits and abiding by them than having to repair bones and muscle for careless actions.  
Thankfully my leg has healed enough to resume normal work so my goal is to try and have all trenching done and plumbing laid this week.  I want to be ready to pour concrete in a couple of weeks.

What's does the 12 Mexican saying mean?
I work alone here too on The Farm. But I would not do a home project. Good for you.
I am outside doing something, claiming back a grown up pasture takes mine time up. And a bunch of other projects too. My projects, I can put them off and sit on a stump and watch the world go by.

Quote from: thecfarm on April 27, 2020, 06:21:32 AM
What's does the 12 Mexican saying mean?
I work alone here too on The Farm. But I would not do a home project. Good for you.
I am outside doing something, claiming back a grown up pasture takes mine time up. And a bunch of other projects too. My projects, I can put them off and sit on a stump and watch the world go by.

Thecfarm, this is from the first post of this topic.  It explains my 12 Mexicans expression:

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Meet my crew, lovingly called "12 Mexicans".  No, it's not racist!  It is a compliment because I used to manage crews of temporary workers who were usually Mexican, and they would work their hearts out.  I totally respect that and honor them by naming my tractor in their memory.

Got it. Thank you.

I spent the last 4 days with a mini-excavator trenching for all the utilities for the house.  Since I had rented the excavator, I decided to also trench for power to my Sawmill house and Drying house.  Electricity will come from a pre-installed fuse box on the barn next to the meter.  Water will also come from the same location at the barn as the house will utilize the rainwater collection system of the barn.  The septic system required approximately 200' of trenches all pitched to grade.  Also, the courtyard will have a gutter drain which will drain to the south through a 4" flexible pipe.  Last, I excavated around a well we found on the property when we bought it.  The previous owner had contracted with someone to clear about a quarter of an acre so they could make the place more sale-able.  Unfortunately, they did not know the well existed and drove the dozer over it breaking the concrete cap and crushing the first concrete ring that makes up the well's wall.  Our hope is to be able to remediate the well as a backup to the rainwater system or to provide irrigation water during the dry months.


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I was originally going to rent a trencher but couldn't find one that would make a 6" wide trench and maneuver successfully in back of the barn.  However, the mini-excavator did an excellent job. Here is the trench behind the barn for the power to the house.

 
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This is the rest of the trench - a total of 160'.


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For the sawmill house, a simple 120/240 outlet box is sufficient for now.

 
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The 60' trench between the sawmill house and the drying house hit literally hundreds of roots.


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This is the trench for the main sewer line in the house. My wife is checking the pitch with the laser.  After that we trenched in all the feeders.
  

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This is the old well I hope to repair.  I dug down around it so I can replace the first concrete section and be able to remove the broken cap that is wedged in the second section.

 
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Tomorrow starts the process of installing all of the PVC and conduit for the house, sawmill house, and drying house.

Looks like your getting good at running that mini. Your yard is starting to look like mind did 20 years ago when we bought this farm with a 90 year old house that needed remodeled and building's put up and all the utilities needed to be replaced from a well to electrical to a new complete sewer system. 

We got rained out while trying to install the septic plumbing so we moved indoors and finished making the last of our shiplap.  Next time it rains we will be setting up and running T & G.


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Over 250 - 1 x 8's.


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That's quite a wack of 1x8's.  Nice!

Quote from: Dakota on May 09, 2020, 10:00:19 AM
That's quite a wack of 1x8's.  Nice!

We've had to make over 6,000 square feet of 1x6's, and 1x8's for the house.  We are not using plywood or OSB for the exterior sheathing on the roof or walls.  1x6's will be for the walls and 1x8's for the roof.

The ground dried out enough for us to get back to plumbin'.  Today we measured, cut, and glued all the sewer system in the house.  My wife was a great help as the 4" PVC DVW pipe can be a bit awkward to handle when working with the wye's.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200509_142714.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1589083164)
 

We finished up a bit late so we were losing light.


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Tomorrow I will connect the sewer line to the septic system and then recheck all measurements of the plumbing stubs.  I don't want a sink or toilet stub coming up through the concrete where it don't belong.  (It would be kind of embarrassing having your toilet in the living room.  :D )

That's a lot of drains!  What will you be back filling the trenches with?  Sand under the pipes first?  Or just dirt?

Quote from: ljohnsaw on May 10, 2020, 12:19:45 AM
That's a lot of drains!  What will you be back filling the trenches with?  Sand under the pipes first?  Or just dirt?

The red dirt here is really fine and fills in well and also compacts well.  We made a point grading the pitch of each trench by hand using our laser before we laid the pipe so backfilling will be pretty painless.  We've also been blessed in that there are no rocks to speak of in the soil.  Before we chose the site for the house, we studied the soil maps for our property and chose the best location based on the soil type.  This soil is extremely stable as we have found with our barn, sawmill house, and drying house.  No cracks in the concrete after 3 years!

Quote from: EOTE on May 10, 2020, 12:04:15 AM
 (It would be kind of embarrassing having your toilet in the living room.  :D )

Oh I don't know about that. It could be kind of handy in your later years. :D You might start a design trend.
 Man, you do nice neat work. Good on ya. I am enjoying watching this come together.

Nice ground you have there. 
Here they had to remove the dirt and bring dirt in for drainage. My soil does drain good, no clay at all, but the big rocks are a problem.
Just up the road,I buy gravel for my driveway. He has 3 septic systems at his place. Just dig a hole and put a tank in and he is all set. And than the other way about a mile from here, I have bought gravel too. There are many gravel pits close buy. As Jeff says 20 lakes in 20 minutes. I can say 20 gravel pits in 20 minutes.

Looks like a really fun project.  Would also like to do that, if my wife would move, but with my back don't think I am up to it.  One thing I would like to tell you, I took down an old church a few years ago, and where they used tar paper over the ship lap boxing, the boxing still looked like new, where they used plain, the boxing looked like it had been soaked every rain.  Had lap siding.

Got the house sewer system connected to the septic system today.  Now to recheck the retaining wires and measurements on all the stubs and start backfilling.   

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One thing I did on all the stubs was to wire them to rebar to maintain their location.  Final check for plumb will be during backfilling.


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Your plumbing job looks great.  Hope your layout fits after you put up the walls!  Every time I hired plumbers, they had to use a sledge hammer and break chunks out of the slab to move pipe so things fit.  On my daughters house, I did the ground run, and it all fit.  And I'm not a plumber.

Quote from: farmfromkansas on May 13, 2020, 01:48:19 PM
Your plumbing job looks great.  Hope your layout fits after you put up the walls!  Every time I hired plumbers, they had to use a sledge hammer and break chunks out of the slab to move pipe so things fit.  On my daughters house, I did the ground run, and it all fit.  And I'm not a plumber.

I'm not a plumber either but I can read plans and measure.  Initially I put in metal stakes at the center where each plumbing stub was supposed to go.  Then I took a coupling the size of the pipe for that stub, centered it on the stake and placed 2 - 3/8" x 24" pieces of rebar on either side of the coupling.  I assembled the plumbing stub and the feeder pipe and wired it to the 2 pieces of rebar.  Once I had everything connected, I checked the measurements of each plumbing stub again to ensure that it was still in the same spot.  After backfilling the trenches, I measured a 3rd time to ensure that the locations matched the plans.  It's not rocket science but it is diligence to ensure that everything fits.  This method also helps to catch errors in measuring and layout.
I am trying to finish up backfilling trenches and preparing the forms in between rains.  

My neighbor decided to buy a drone so I got some pictures from him.  

What's nice to see is my building site forms are square! :)

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The picture shows some backfilling and leveling in progress.

The neighbor with the drone is willing to take updates so I can see the progress over time.

This photo is with the backfilling done but the trench drain in the courtyard area is not yet completely in place.


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I'm not a plumber either but I noticed that you did not mention testing, the plumber I did hire for a apartment building build put temporary covers on all the pipes and installed a stand pipe and filled the drain system with water to test for leaks. 

Quote from: Hilltop366 on May 16, 2020, 10:36:49 AM
I'm not a plumber either but I noticed that you did not mention testing, the plumber I did hire for a apartment building build put temporary covers on all the pipes and installed a stand pipe and filled the drain system with water to test for leaks.

I did test the water main because it would be a nightmare to try and repair it once buried.  The first picture shows a joint that was leaking when I tested it with leak detector.  I had to replace this joint.

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I installed a gauge and pressurized the pipe.  During the first test, the pressure began dropping about 5 psi/hour.  So I got out the leak detector and checked each joint for leakage.  The above picture shows the leak.  Once fixed, and repressurized, the pressure has held steady.  (Actually it increases with the daily temperature increases and it decreases when the temperature cools.)  After backfilling, the pressure remains constant and the gauge will stay in place and pressurized until after the concrete is poured.

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The septic system is a different story.  Since it is connected to the septic tank, I opted first to inspect all the joints the day after assemmbly and then to use my bore scope after backfilling to ensure that all pipes show no deformity or any joints show separation.

We finally finished everything for the foundation (monolithic slab) so we contacted our concrete contractor to come and review the site and schedule pouring the foundation.

We had to make a slight adjustment to the plan...the depth of the septic tank inlet was actually about 6" higher than I remembered (never rely on memory for accuracy) so we ended up having to adjust the final grade of the pad accordingly as the pitch on the sewer plumbing would have put the end of the sewer line in the concrete instead of below it.  It's something I should have checked before beginning the site excavation.  Fortunately, it was a fairly easy fix, we just dug up the septic tanks and drain field and set it 6" lower.   :D :D :D  (If you believe that I have some beach front property in Arizona that's for sale).  Actually, we just added another 2" x 6" to the concrete forms, backfilled the extra 6" with red dirt, leveled and compacted it.  

We set the trench drain for the courtyard as well and ran a 4" flex line to the south for drainage.

We have one small addition to make this afternoon - I am going to trench in a 4" PVC pipe to run the AC tubes through as this will be the easiest way to route them to the HVAC units.

It is so good to complete this phase of the construction.  I can't wait for the contractor to give us the pour date.


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I really like the pipe idea for running future lines. You may want to run more in case you ever want to drag electric phone or anything else other locations, like to your new shop :)

Do you not need to lift all the drain lines 6" as well?

Quote from: Don P on May 22, 2020, 06:21:45 PM
Do you not need to lift all the drain lines 6" as well?

When setting the pitch of the sewer plumbing, we followed the standard rule of 3" drop per 12' run (1/4" per foot).  Following that rule, we measured the depth of the pipe entering the septic tank, and working backward up the main trench to the clean out on the far side of the forms, the difference was almost 30".  We realized that the plumbing would be laying in the concrete pad instead of under it at the farthest point so we had to change the elevation of the top of forms to maintain the correct pitch and keep the PVC under the concrete.  It meant adding an additional 2" x 6" to the forms and backfilling an additional 5" to 6" over the whole site.  The branches off of the main sewer line also followed the pitch rule but each was laid out according to the elevation of the joint where they connected to the main sewer line.  All pressure piping (water) and electrical conduit were left as is since they are not affected by the pitch rules.  All the pipe was laid out using a green laser level to ensure that we maintained the proper pitch and elevation.  
The last thing anyone wants is sewage problems.  At my house in central Texas, we had problems where one of our oak trees breached the sewer pipe in such a way that it blocked our sewer from draining easily.  In that particular subdivision, the houses are paired together on the sewer branch to the main so when the neighbor flushed the toilet, our shower and bathtubs filled up with their sewage.  Totally disgusting.  So I was adamant about maintaining the correct pitch and elevation throughout the site for all of the sewer plumbing.

Today we added a 4" PVC pipe to the south side of the building site for the HVAC copper lines to be routed through and a 1" conduit stub for the power feed to the units.  This will make a much cleaner installation. The stubs will all terminate in the location of the exterior wall so when the framing is done they can be extended to the second floor for the HVAC units.

We will add a 3/4" iron pipe stub as well for the propane infeed (not in the same area, it will be on the east side of the house.)  

Quote from: EOTE on May 23, 2020, 11:14:26 PMWe will add a 3/4" iron pipe stub as well for the propane infeed (not in the same area, it will be on the east side of the house.)

I would not.  Yellow "PE" Polyethylene gas pipe should be used.  LINK (https://plasticpipe.org/pdf/tr-22_polyethylene_for_liquid_petroleum_gasses.pdf) and LINK (https://www.homedepot.com/p/HOME-FLEX-3-4-in-IPS-x-100-ft-DR-11-Underground-Yellow-Polyethylene-Gas-Pipe-19-0711100/301892364)  I would install black rolled pipe, etc. that would be used as a conduit for the PE.  This would be very similar to how you see fiber optic cable installed.

Quote from: Magicman on May 24, 2020, 07:33:01 AM

Quote from: EOTE on May 23, 2020, 11:14:26 PMWe will add a 3/4" iron pipe stub as well for the propane infeed (not in the same area, it will be on the east side of the house.)

I would not.  Yellow "PE" Polyethylene gas pipe should be used.  LINK (https://plasticpipe.org/pdf/tr-22_polyethylene_for_liquid_petroleum_gasses.pdf) and LINK (https://www.homedepot.com/p/HOME-FLEX-3-4-in-IPS-x-100-ft-DR-11-Underground-Yellow-Polyethylene-Gas-Pipe-19-0711100/301892364)  I would install black rolled pipe, etc. that would be used as a conduit for the PE.  This would be very similar to how you see fiber optic cable installed.

This may vary with location. Where I love in Ohio, it is standard to run black iron pipe for the propane feed and the propane provider expects you to have threaded black iron pipe sticking out of the house for them to connect their regulator and copper feed line.

Black iron here too. Wife had the propane guys hook up the pool heater for her.

Black iron here too, and not only stubbed out of the house, but with a pressure gauge on it that has been holding pressure over a weekend, that they can screw off, and hook their end up to.

Put in a manifold with enough hookups for all the cookers you'll ever want, with ball valves, and just plug the ends that won't be used for a while.

I use standard lengths, and when I get to an end where I need a specific length, I go buy that piece from Home Depot, and they'll thread it for no charge.

Quote from: Magicman on May 24, 2020, 07:33:01 AM

Quote from: EOTE on May 23, 2020, 11:14:26 PMWe will add a 3/4" iron pipe stub as well for the propane infeed (not in the same area, it will be on the east side of the house.)

I would not.  Yellow "PE" Polyethylene gas pipe should be used.  LINK (https://plasticpipe.org/pdf/tr-22_polyethylene_for_liquid_petroleum_gasses.pdf) and LINK (https://www.homedepot.com/p/HOME-FLEX-3-4-in-IPS-x-100-ft-DR-11-Underground-Yellow-Polyethylene-Gas-Pipe-19-0711100/301892364)  I would install black rolled pipe, etc. that would be used as a conduit for the PE.  This would be very similar to how you see fiber optic cable installed.

It might be a local thing here where the propane distributors want black iron pipe installed with it pressurized for a few days to test for leaks.  Then they will hook up a tank and regulator to it.
For me the whole pipe and stub length is only 10' so the expense of iron pipe is minimal compared to PE.


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I got my HVAC stubs in as well. I used 4" PVC as a conduit to pull the copper tubing through.  When the tubing has been installed, I will plug the ends so critters can't get in.

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I talked with the concrete contractor yesterday and got the price today.  It was within $500 of what I estimated.  We will have to use a pump truck.  We are looking at about 85 yards of concrete and roughly 10,000 linear feet of rebar.  We are probably 2 weeks out from pouring but that gives me time to do some finish leveling in a couple of spots that are low.

I am going to invite my neighbor down on the pouring date so he can do some videos with his drone.

My neighbor did a test flyover video with his drone of the building site and sent me this video:  

EOTE Building Site Flyover (https://youtu.be/k0BTWlcWnQI).  

It's interesting to see how the building site looks from the air.  I am going to have him do the same flyover at different stages of building.

Question about building in Texas, do you not use basements down there?  The soil seems as if it would be ideal? Kansas uses basements, Oklahoma seems not to, only houses I have seen there are slab built. Not all soil in Kansas is ideal, where I live the clay seems to push on basement walls.

Quote from: farmfromkansas on May 27, 2020, 01:39:46 PM
Question about building in Texas, do you not use basements down there?  The soil seems as if it would be ideal? Kansas uses basements, Oklahoma seems not to, only houses I have seen there are slab built. Not all soil in Kansas is ideal, where I live the clay seems to push on basement walls.

I can't speak for all of Texas but in East Texas you don't see it much because of the higher water table and tendency to have flooding and lots of rain.  If you had one, you would need a sump pump and it would probably work a lot.

That drone video is neat.  ;D

No basements here either.  Older "off of the ground" farm homes occasionally had root cellars for storing taters, etc. but never anything close to living space.  Too much moisture.

Back to the subject of the black iron pipe, black iron is what they want here too coming out of the house but you would never use it for ground contact, that can only be PPE or copper. It could be different there but i would make sure before you pour the concrete.

Quote from: DFILER2 on May 28, 2020, 01:55:25 PM
Back to the subject of the black iron pipe, black iron is what they want here too coming out of the house but you would never use it for ground contact, that can only be PPE or copper. It could be different there but i would make sure before you pour the concrete.

After talking with Propane providers in the area, I decided to go with the PE pipe and protected risers.  I hope to have the materials tomorrow so I can install them.  Still about 2 weeks out before our concrete contractor will pour because he is so busy.


An interesting side note:  I had pressurized the water main and left it for about a week before starting to backfill the trench.  Last weekend while away, the pipe began losing pressure at about 2 lbs. per day.  I decided to change the gauge and repressurize it to 100 psi.  With that, the pipe lost 27 psi overnight.  So I tested all the joints on the pipe that were still exposed and sure enough they were all ok.  So today I began the task of digging up 80' of trench by hand to find the faulty joint.  After 60' of digging, I finally came across the faulty joint.  From the looks of it, the joint did not have a full complement of glue all the way around.  So tomorrow, I will repair the pipe, wait a day and then repressurize it and watch it.  Hopefully, it is the only faulty joint. :-\

Fortunately, the digging was  fairly easy.  Only 60' before I found the leak (the pipe is 2' below the surface).

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200603_105938~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1591236555)

Here is the culprit!
 
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Good luck 👍. Usually when you prime and glue the joints you should rarely have problems if there not contaminated or damaged 

Nice coworker. Blame it on him 😂

Good thing that you found it now and not after the slab was poured! Still, hand digging 60' of trench was probably not high on your desired list of things to do....

I've never seen water line like that, here we use the long length roll of water line (no joints).

For my house I went the extra mile and put my water line and well pump power inside a 4" line to protect it as well as make it a lot easier to replace. I would only have to dig it up at the well to access the entire line.

Quote from: Hilltop366 on June 04, 2020, 09:14:10 AM
I've never seen water line like that, here we use the long length roll of water line (no joints).

For my house I went the extra mile and put my water line and well pump power inside a 4" line to protect it as well as make it a lot easier to replace. I would only have to dig it up at the well to access the entire line.

That's what I did on my house.
Mine went from the well down 8ft to the basement and under the drive so I figured I wouldn't want to dig that up ever.
We used the roll pipe to the other 3 dwellings direct burial.

Quote from: Walnut Beast on June 03, 2020, 11:43:34 PM
Good luck 👍. Usually when you prime and glue the joints you should rarely have problems if there not contaminated or damaged

I suspect what happened was that I normally prime both ends of the fitting but only put glue on the pipe and the end of the fitting I am connecting and that I mixed up which end of the coupling had glue in it when I put it on the pipe.  That would explain why the soap bubbles would span about a third of the diameter of the joint.
I have to blame the coworker (me) for being absent minded. :D

Quote from: Hilltop366 on June 04, 2020, 09:14:10 AM
I've never seen water line like that, here we use the long length roll of water line (no joints).

For my house I went the extra mile and put my water line and well pump power inside a 4" line to protect it as well as make it a lot easier to replace. I would only have to dig it up at the well to access the entire line.

I've worked with PVC  for over 40 years and it is normally problem free.  A leak is usually from not cleaning and priming the pipe or joint thoroughly before assembly.  I have also tended to stay with a slow setting glue as some of the "hot" ones set almost immediately so you only have seconds to get it right.  PVC is normally crush resistant when placed 2' or more below the surface and bedded properly so that the fill doesn't put pressure on the pipe or joints in a way to cause failure.  
The idea of a continuous line from point A to point B sounds like a winner but down here the only pipe I see for that is the black polyethylene pipe which would have to run inside of another pipe to keep from being crushed.  
Fortunately, the weak joint showed itself before pouring.  And fortunately the failure was 30' away from the concrete.  :)  And fortunately I didn't have to dig out the whole 80', 60' was bad enough in 92 degree heat and full sun.

I had a leak on a 300 ft gas line. Fortunately I pressure tested it before covering it so it was not too much of a problem.

Quote from: PineNut on June 05, 2020, 09:51:02 PM

I had a leak on a 300 ft gas line. Fortunately I pressure tested it before covering it so it was not too much of a problem.

I am putting in PE risers and line this afternoon.  I plan to do the same and pressurize the line.   The concrete contractor has scheduled to be here Tuesday so we will hopefully have a pad by EOD Friday!

Quote from: EOTE on June 07, 2020, 04:19:51 PM

Quote from: PineNut on June 05, 2020, 09:51:02 PM

I had a leak on a 300 ft gas line. Fortunately I pressure tested it before covering it so it was not too much of a problem.

I am putting in PE risers and line this afternoon.  I plan to do the same and pressurize the line.   The concrete contractor has scheduled to be here Tuesday so we will hopefully have a pad by EOD Friday!

Well, unfortunately the concrete contractor had to postpone until Monday so I took some R&R.
This is the gas line that was installed and pressurized.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200607_183704.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1592107671)
 
So, on my way home for R & R, I stopped along a shortcut road I take to mark my territory and heard a strange noise... As I listened I couldn't identify the bird that was causing the incessant noise.  However, I fixated on a cardboard box about 20' away.  As I approached it, I recognized the sound...

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200610_095357.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1592107873)
 
Someone had dropped a box of kittens for "disposal" along the highway.  Judging from their condition, I don't think they were there more than an hour.  Being a 90+ degree day, my first instinct was "Nope! you guys are coming along with me".


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200610_112414.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1592108065)
 

So, I brought home a box of kittens.  My son and his wife fell in love with the grey and white male and named him Freddie.  Gigi initially picked up one kitten and promptly attempted to find its "squeak" like her stuffed toys, so we named that kitten "Squeaky Toy".  However, she fixated on one kitten that she is constantly shepherding... picking it up and carrying it in her mouth from its crate to her bed and keeping it close by her.  We named it Kerf, Jr. after our neighbor's cat that incessantly meows with a "Rod Stewart" type of voice.  He was the one I heard and if it hadn't been for him I would have never known that there was a box of kittens that needed rescuing.  The fourth kitten, the calico, we named Miss Kitty.  While I had been looking for a barn cat, I never expected to have three to take back to EOTE.

So I will have my hands full this week between the kittens and concrete pouring.  Fortunately the kittens are weaned and eating solid food.  I will keep them in the crate until they become more acclimated to their surroundings and then I will slowly enlarge their world to the whole barn.  Hopefully, Gigi will help herd cats and keep them in line.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200613_105759.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1592108904)
 

What a nice guy 👍. Nice pictures and sounds like things are moving along on your project👍

A dog and a cat!!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10436/pumpkin_and_gracie_2014.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1402014335)
 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10436/thecfarmdewpuppy.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1192060354)


Yes we have done that.
The white dog, Dew, and Grace would play together. Dew would get kinda rough and the cat would be the claws to him. I would hear a yelp and Dew would be sitting there with his, I did not do nothing wrong, look.  :D 
The cat would clean Dew's face too.
Lucky that you stopped.

You are a good man, Mr. EOTE.

I wanted to post an update on the concrete pour and progress.

Unfortunately, the pour is now scheduled for Friday the 26th.  The contractor has had slow progress getting the poly and rebar put in place primarily because of a shortage of workers in this area.  We were scheduled to pour tomorrow and the forecast is for severe thunderstorms.  Also, yesterday, I discovered that the final grading in the courtyard was incorrect as they did not take into account the pitch on the trench drain.  Had they poured as it is, the thickness on one side of the courtyard would have to be less than 2" to meet the drain.  Now the workers have to pull up the rebar in the courtard and regrade it.   

In this photo, the rebar actually sits above the trench drain.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200621_174230.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1592852544)



92 degrees in the sun.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200618_085754.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1592852527)
 

Almost ready to pour.  


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200622_125845.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1592852524)
 

In the meantime, I made a kitty corral for my 3 rescue kittens.  It's amazing what you can make from a single 2" x 6".


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200620_101408.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1592852931)
 

And a couple of pieces of scrap wood become a play center for them.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200621_193308.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1592852982)
 

After my plumbing problem, I had 140' of trench line to backfill and finally got the opportunity to do it.  Along with backfilling the trench behind the barn I was able to widen the area so the 12 Mexicans could fit more easily.  Contoured and sloped it so the water runs away from the barn.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200622_132556.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1592854619)
 



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200622_132622.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1592854620)
 

Poly and rebar have been laid.  A few touch-ups tomorrow and if everything goes right we will be pouring on Friday.  

This picture is about an hour before we had a huge downpour (1-3/4" in 15 minutes and 2.15" overall).


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/Rebar_and_Poly_Down_Waiting_for_a_Pour.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1593033191)
 

We have gotten some really good dogs from people just dropping them off along the road.  Once a tiny little puppy walked up in the yard, she was a crossbred Corgy, nicest dog we ever had.  She had manners, and would not eat with you watching.  And when you came home in the evening, she would smile at you.

We finally got the concrete pad poured.   8) 8) 8)

It was an "iffy" forecast and ended up getting a quarter of an inch of rain while pouring.  We started at 6:30 am and finished at 5:30 pm.

We are sure glad it is done.  I broke ground for this on February 3rd and it took this long to finish it out.  

Here are some pics of the pour...


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/06262020_Beginning_pour.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1593228685)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/06202020_Pouring.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1593228684)
 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200626_054802.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1593228714)


 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200626_103359.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1593228657)


 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200626_073134.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1593228630)
 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200626_064018.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1593228612)


Finally done!

 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200626_161919.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1593228658)
 

Nice pictures!!!!

I probably should have paid for the concrete crew to remove the forms.  It's really backbreaking work and with all the screws and nails covered with concrete, it makes it much more difficult.  Pump truck delivery of concrete to the forms is so much more messy.  It doesn't help in some respects that the ground is still muddy from all the rain.  It's taken a day and a half to remove 2 sides out of the 4.

Once it dries down a little (or after I get the forms off) whichever comes first, it is now backfilling and contouring for water runoff.

Also this will be a good time to put on self leveling compound to fill in all the little "puddles" (low spots).  After that I have to mark out the wall locations and set anchor bolts.  I am planning on using the Hilti system with 1/2" diameter anchor rods epoxied into the cement.

Lots of work to do now, but what a great milestone!

Once you're out of the mud life improves!

I finally got the concrete forms removed and now have a burn pile of stakes and broken boards and garbage left from the contractor.  Hurt my back to boot.  :(  However, in looking at the foundation I decided to plumb in all the rainwater collection underground plumbing before doing the backfilling.  That way I don't have to trench for it in the future.

We have a rainwater collection system on our barn and it feeds 15K gallons of storage tanks.  The rainwater collection on the house will be for irrigation of trees, flowers, and lawn during the dry season.  

After that, then I will backfill and contour around the house and the dirt wall to the west of the house will be sloped up to the treeline.  Lots more dirt digging with the 12 Mexicans.  I want to be able to start some of the major landscape work in September so I need to finish up all the site contouring.  

Then, I will be able to start prefabricating all of the trusses and exterior walls.

Quote from: EOTE on June 29, 2020, 08:12:50 PM
However, in looking at the foundation I decided to plumb in all the rainwater collection underground plumbing before doing the backfilling.  That way I don't have to trench for it in the future.

Man, I love watching you work and I love the way you think. Doing this may slow you down now but saves you more work on the back end, it just makes good sense, do it all in order even if it delays the next step a bit. You are already moving to the framing phase and the concrete isn't even cured yet. You thunk this out really well and are very nicely organized. It is DanG impressive. Good on ya man. Soak your back in a little alcohol and keep on truckin'.

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on June 29, 2020, 08:36:01 PM

Quote from: EOTE on June 29, 2020, 08:12:50 PM
However, in looking at the foundation I decided to plumb in all the rainwater collection underground plumbing before doing the backfilling.  That way I don't have to trench for it in the future.

Man, I love watching you work and I love the way you think. Doing this may slow you down now but saves you more work on the back end, it just makes good sense, do it all in order even if it delays the next step a bit. You are already moving to the framing phase and the concrete isn't even cured yet. You thunk this out really well and are very nicely organized. It is DanG impressive. Good on ya man. Soak your back in a little alcohol and keep on truckin'.

I really appreciate the feedback.  One thing I learned in the business world is that the only constant is change...change in plans, change in direction, change in philosophy, change in change.  :D  My wife often inspires changes in plans as well as it get me to rethink my processes to accommodate her desires.  Case in point...when we poured, it was the perfect storm of all things mud.  My wife hates mud and thus pushed all weekend to change things so she never has to deal with mud again (or at least minimize it).  (i.e. city girl vs. country boy) :D
So my plans now include adding a concrete parking pad and driveway from the gravel parking area to the house as well as remediating the gravel parking area (which was never designed to support concrete truck traffic after 2" of rain).  And, it includes bugging the county commissioner to regrade our road and add gravel as the truck traffic took its toll on it as well.  The best laid plans are laid...waste.  ;D :D
So, while I have plans to have the exterior shell (or as we call it, the box) done by December, if it follows the foundation plans, it will end up being about 3 months later than that.  Life is good! 8)

If you are having back trouble, you might want to get one of the inversion devices that you see advertised.  I bought one years ago, and any time my back feels a little off, I go hang for 30 to 45 seconds.  I just count to measure the time.  Like to do it in the evening so it has a chance to do some good overnight.  Like your progress on the house.  Wish I could do it again too.  Now I know all the things to do right, it would work out better than the one I built 40 years ago.

I had back problems for 30 years, I considered it part of working for a living. In December of 2018 I hurt myself so bad (just pushing the mill on and easy log) and I HAD to get help. I asked friends and two recommended a specific chiropractor. I was miserable (and I think most of it is documented here on the forum someplace) and could barely walk. He fixed me. It turned out to be the culmination of many years of abusing my body with no adjustments. I can't tell you how this guy has changed my life for the better. I go in once a month now for a tune up and he can pinpoint what I have been doing and where my muscular stress is every time. He keeps me moving and I no longer have any of the restraints I had on my ability to work. 
 I should say it is very important to find the 'RIGHT' person with the right methods. I got lucky and found the right guy on the first shot. He and I have become good friends and go catch music gigs together from time to time. Some day I will put him to work here at the mill, he keeps asking. Look for the right guy or gal. When you find them, life gets a whole lot better.
 You maintain your equipment to keep it running well, what are you doing for your own body to keep it running well?

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on June 30, 2020, 10:01:01 PM
I had back problems for 30 years, I considered it part of working for a living. In December of 2018 I hurt myself so bad (just pushing the mill on and easy log) and I HAD to get help. I asked friends and two recommended a specific chiropractor. I was miserable (and I think most of it is documented here on the forum someplace) and could barely walk. He fixed me. It turned out to be the culmination of many years of abusing my body with no adjustments. I can't tell you how this guy has changed my life for the better. I go in once a month now for a tune up and he can pinpoint what I have been doing and where my muscular stress is every time. He keeps me moving and I no longer have any of the restraints I had on my ability to work.
I should say it is very important to find the 'RIGHT' person with the right methods. I got lucky and found the right guy on the first shot. He and I have become good friends and go catch music gigs together from time to time. Some day I will put him to work here at the mill, he keeps asking. Look for the right guy or gal. When you find them, life gets a whole lot better.
You maintain your equipment to keep it running well, what are you doing for your own body to keep it running well?

Quote from: farmfromkansas on June 30, 2020, 09:24:35 PM
If you are having back trouble, you might want to get one of the inversion devices that you see advertised.  I bought one years ago, and any time my back feels a little off, I go hang for 30 to 45 seconds.  I just count to measure the time.  Like to do it in the evening so it has a chance to do some good overnight.  Like your progress on the house.  Wish I could do it again too.  Now I know all the things to do right, it would work out better than the one I built 40 years ago.

Most of my back problems started when I was young and foolish and thought I was invincible.  As a teenager I would deliver 400 pound desks and file cabinets up 4 flights of stairs on a dolly by myself.  Along with that I used the idolize Evil Knievel and jump my dirt bike regularly.  My first career was as a diesel mechanic on ag equipment in Montana where I injured myself lifting lots of stuff by myself including my 400 pound toolbox into the back of a truck for service calls.

Fast forward to about 5 years ago.  I ended up with a CAT scan of my lower back (which is where I get most of the pain) and I find out that the disk between two vertebrae is compressed so much that the bones are rubbing together and pinching the nerve.  The doctor said I could fuse the bones together but it would limit my mobility or I could first try physical therapy.  I chose the latter and the therapist gave me a number of exercises that helped.  One in particular, laying on my side and stretching my arm as far behind me as I could was really the miracle exercise that eliminated my back pain.  However, some things still hurt my back ( like work  :D ) and it takes several days of exercise and whatever pain killers to bring it back to what I consider a state of normal.  

Farmfromkansas recommends an inversion device.  I think in Montana where I grew up they used that on criminals and it wasn't wrapped around their feet, it was on the other end. They were usually dropped through an opening in the floor and it always fixed their back problems, permanently.  :D :D :D  Now...I wonder about bungee jumping :D.  If I didn't have this height phobia, I think I would try that and see if it helped.  But seriously, I will have to look into that inversion device idea.

Old Greenhorn, I have gone to chiropractors most of my life but it wasn't until about 14 years ago that I found a truly excellent one.  I had an old trampoline injury to my neck from high school where I could never turn my head very far to the left.  He actually fixed that and most of the time my back as well.  Unfortunately, it was my chiropractor that sent me to the back specialist 5 years ago as he said he couldn't do anything more to it to help me.  I think he got tired of jumping off chairs onto my back to get the bones back in place. ;D  More than once he literally knocked the wind out of me getting my back into place.

I take a number of supplements like MSM and fish oil which actually help a lot to minimize pain and I have had recommendations to try CBD oil which I may try if I can find a reputable supplier and not some stoner making it in his basement.  But I've only got about 30+ years left on this green earth (God willing) and I suspect that with the way things work, I will eventually look like my dad, bent over permanently with a cane holding me up.  But until then I am grateful for all the advice and suggestions that helps to prolong the inevitable.  I'm not going to let pain stop me from enjoying life!  (Besides, I don't have anyone to hand off my to-do list to.)  On to the rainwater collection plumbing!

Quote from: EOTE on June 29, 2020, 08:12:50 PM
We have a rainwater collection system on our barn and it feeds 15K gallons of storage tanks.  The rainwater collection on the house will be for irrigation of trees, flowers, and lawn during the dry season.  

That's a lot of storage. What's it for? Where's the house H2O getting stored?

Quote from: Sedgehammer on July 01, 2020, 07:36:32 AM

Quote from: EOTE on June 29, 2020, 08:12:50 PM
We have a rainwater collection system on our barn and it feeds 15K gallons of storage tanks.  The rainwater collection on the house will be for irrigation of trees, flowers, and lawn during the dry season.  

That's a lot of storage. What's it for? Where's the house H2O getting stored?

Currently the barn storage is 3 - 5000 gallon tanks on a cement pad next to the barn.  The tanks for the house will be set back in the trees on a sand base.
The reason for so much water?  When I designed the barn and rainwater collection system, I calculated our average usage for a month from over 10 years worth of data and then multiplied that by 5 so that I had enough to last for at least 5 months without rain.  The barn will generate about 1600 gallons of rainwater per inch of rain which we use for potable water.  The house will generate more but the water collected from it will not go through our water filtration system, only through sediment filters as it is strictly non-potable.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20170805_173158.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1580087645)
 

K. Question though, why? I know rain H2O is better for plants overall, so for garden stuff I can see it, but still it can't be justified over well water for costs involved. I don't know what wells cost there, but you mentioned high H2O table. Is it brackish water? 
Your place, so of course do want you desire. We drilled a 60 gpm well for irrigating and keeping our pond full. $4,800 for the well. Another 2k for wire, pump n related. Glad we did, really nice to swim in nice clear H2O. For just household, lawn n garden, that'd be about 1/2 that cost. 

many places water is in short supply/high demand and highly regulated.  I assume it is for conservation and or getting around some regulation

Quote from: Sedgehammer on July 01, 2020, 09:57:13 AM
K. Question though, why? I know rain H2O is better for plants overall, so for garden stuff I can see it, but still it can't be justified over well water for costs involved. I don't know what wells cost there, but you mentioned high H2O table. Is it brackish water?
Your place, so of course do want you desire. We drilled a 60 gpm well for irrigating and keeping our pond full. $4,800 for the well. Another 2k for wire, pump n related. Glad we did, really nice to swim in nice clear H2O. For just household, lawn n garden, that'd be about 1/2 that cost.

Quote from: doc henderson on July 01, 2020, 10:11:38 AM
many places water is in short supply/high demand and highly regulated.  I assume it is for conservation and or getting around some regulation

When we originally designed and built the barn, we found two existing wells on the property, both damaged when they bulldozed a clearing for selling the property.  When we looked into remediation or drilling a new well, the starting price was around $7,500.  When I looked at rainwater collection, the biggest expense was the tanks.  My total cost for the plumbing, tanks, and a very reliable water purification system was only $7,000.  Plus, we get an average of 48" of rain per year which equates to 76,800 gallons of rainwater that we could potentially collect.  The well option also was not encouraging from the neighbor's point of view.  He has two wells that are 200+ feet deep and produce hard mineral laden water which he has to run through the appropriate filters (high iron content) and he only gets about 5 gpm per well.

After we got the system installed, we had the water tested for 189 different contaminants, minerals, etc.  It was almost like distilled water.  There is no smell or taste or mineral deposits in the shower. :)

Texas is one state that actually encourages rainwater collection.  I know some states jealously guard that "right" and don't allow individuals to collect rainwater.  Since we had that option, for us it became an economic decision.  

My total maintenance costs are a pre and post filter every quarter and a UV replacement light once a year.  I also "slam" the tanks with a gallon of bleach every 6 months.  I have to keep the downspouts clean of leaves and debris but I have 2 screen filters before the tanks which are mosquito proof so they catch a lot of the finer debris.  You can look in the tanks after 3 years and still see the bottom although there are traces of debris that you can see as well.

For us, it was a good choice.

Quote from: doc henderson on July 01, 2020, 10:11:38 AM
many places water is in short supply/high demand and highly regulated.  I assume it is for conservation and or getting around some regulation

He's in east Texas, so the regulated part prolly not.
Conservation, sure if in short supply. 
I know in Kansas there's many a place that don't have good water (lived in Syracuse area) and in south western texas (lived there too). So it's prolly a poor H2O issue. 
It's his dream, so live it, just wondering why the extra expense is all.

Quote from: EOTE on July 01, 2020, 10:27:55 AM


After we got the system installed, we had the water tested for 189 different contaminants, minerals, etc.  It was almost like distilled water.  There is no smell or taste or mineral deposits in the shower. :)
Texas is one state that actually encourages rainwater collection.  I know some states jealously guard that "right" and don't allow individuals to collect rainwater.
For us, it was a good choice.

Absolutely was!
Them some high drilling costs then. We're 280'. Hit H2O zone at 120' and at 240'.
Our H2O is hard. 32 grains. We soften it for the house and outside hydrants near house.

We have family near dripping springs Tx.  they could not even modify a natural spring fed swimming hole without formal eval and permission.  there water smelled of sulfur.  they barely noticed, but it was all we could do to shower there.  some sort of sulfur fixing bacteria.  the fix was to add bicarb to the water to raise the pH.  too expensive for them as they were used to it.  it affected the well, but not noticed in the spring.  They had a lot of moss, and we talked about a rake to clean it, but he said if folks down stream noticed a change in water clarity, there would be an investigation.

Another thumbs up and recommendation for a inversion table. $199 on Amazon up to 400 lbs.
Love mine

Quote from: doc henderson on July 01, 2020, 12:43:16 PM
We have family near dripping springs Tx.  they could not even modify a natural spring fed swimming hole without formal eval and permission.  there water smelled of sulfur.  they barely noticed, but it was all we could do to shower there.  some sort of sulfur fixing bacteria.  the fix was to add bicarb to the water to raise the pH.  too expensive for them as they were used to it.  it affected the well, but not noticed in the spring.  They had a lot of moss, and we talked about a rake to clean it, but he said if folks down stream noticed a change in water clarity, there would be an investigation.

Yeah, that's a naturally occurring water flow. Just as a rule, Texas isn't as anal as blue states. 

Quote from: EOTE on July 01, 2020, 10:27:55 AM

Quote from: Sedgehammer on July 01, 2020, 09:57:13 AM
K. Question though, why? I know rain H2O is better for plants overall, so for garden stuff I can see it, but still it can't be justified over well water for costs involved. I don't know what wells cost there, but you mentioned high H2O table. Is it brackish water?
Your place, so of course do want you desire. We drilled a 60 gpm well for irrigating and keeping our pond full. $4,800 for the well. Another 2k for wire, pump n related. Glad we did, really nice to swim in nice clear H2O. For just household, lawn n garden, that'd be about 1/2 that cost.

Quote from: doc henderson on July 01, 2020, 10:11:38 AM
many places water is in short supply/high demand and highly regulated.  I assume it is for conservation and or getting around some regulation

When we originally designed and built the barn, we found two existing wells on the property, both damaged when they bulldozed a clearing for selling the property.  When we looked into remediation or drilling a new well, the starting price was around $7,500.  When I looked at rainwater collection, the biggest expense was the tanks.  My total cost for the plumbing, tanks, and a very reliable water purification system was only $7,000.  Plus, we get an average of 48" of rain per year which equates to 76,800 gallons of rainwater that we could potentially collect.  The well option also was not encouraging from the neighbor's point of view.  He has two wells that are 200+ feet deep and produce hard mineral laden water which he has to run through the appropriate filters (high iron content) and he only gets about 5 gpm per well.

After we got the system installed, we had the water tested for 189 different contaminants, minerals, etc.  It was almost like distilled water.  There is no smell or taste or mineral deposits in the shower. :)

Texas is one state that actually encourages rainwater collection.  I know some states jealously guard that "right" and don't allow individuals to collect rainwater.  Since we had that option, for us it became an economic decision.  

My total maintenance costs are a pre and post filter every quarter and a UV replacement light once a year.  I also "slam" the tanks with a gallon of bleach every 6 months.  I have to keep the downspouts clean of leaves and debris but I have 2 screen filters before the tanks which are mosquito proof so they catch a lot of the finer debris.  You can look in the tanks after 3 years and still see the bottom although there are traces of debris that you can see as well.

For us, it was a good choice.

How about your alternative electricity 😳

Quote from: Walnut Beast on July 01, 2020, 02:43:15 PM

Quote from: EOTE on July 01, 2020, 10:27:55 AM

Quote from: Sedgehammer on July 01, 2020, 09:57:13 AM
K. Question though, why? I know rain H2O is better for plants overall, so for garden stuff I can see it, but still it can't be justified over well water for costs involved. I don't know what wells cost there, but you mentioned high H2O table. Is it brackish water?
Your place, so of course do want you desire. We drilled a 60 gpm well for irrigating and keeping our pond full. $4,800 for the well. Another 2k for wire, pump n related. Glad we did, really nice to swim in nice clear H2O. For just household, lawn n garden, that'd be about 1/2 that cost.

Quote from: doc henderson on July 01, 2020, 10:11:38 AM
many places water is in short supply/high demand and highly regulated.  I assume it is for conservation and or getting around some regulation

When we originally designed and built the barn, we found two existing wells on the property, both damaged when they bulldozed a clearing for selling the property.  When we looked into remediation or drilling a new well, the starting price was around $7,500.  When I looked at rainwater collection, the biggest expense was the tanks.  My total cost for the plumbing, tanks, and a very reliable water purification system was only $7,000.  Plus, we get an average of 48" of rain per year which equates to 76,800 gallons of rainwater that we could potentially collect.  The well option also was not encouraging from the neighbor's point of view.  He has two wells that are 200+ feet deep and produce hard mineral laden water which he has to run through the appropriate filters (high iron content) and he only gets about 5 gpm per well.

After we got the system installed, we had the water tested for 189 different contaminants, minerals, etc.  It was almost like distilled water.  There is no smell or taste or mineral deposits in the shower. :)

Texas is one state that actually encourages rainwater collection.  I know some states jealously guard that "right" and don't allow individuals to collect rainwater.  Since we had that option, for us it became an economic decision.  

My total maintenance costs are a pre and post filter every quarter and a UV replacement light once a year.  I also "slam" the tanks with a gallon of bleach every 6 months.  I have to keep the downspouts clean of leaves and debris but I have 2 screen filters before the tanks which are mosquito proof so they catch a lot of the finer debris.  You can look in the tanks after 3 years and still see the bottom although there are traces of debris that you can see as well.

For us, it was a good choice.

How about your alternative electricity 😳

With the amount of electricity I use and the pricing down here, it doesn't pay to go off grid and use solar.  I have a back up generator for when the power fails (which is several times a year).  Consider the draw when running a 5 hp. 240v saw and planer and a 1 hp. power feeder and dust collection system.  Couple that with all the fans I run during the summer to stay cool...solar is just not economically feasible.
I did an ROI on solar power when we first bought the place and it wouldn't break even until well after 30 years and that was assuming the solar panels would last that long.  
Wind is not an option because we are in a hollow.  Average wind speed is about 2 mph.

 How right you are about blue states >:(.

Where I live in Kansas, we have well water with sulfur.  I took some well water to be tested, and they said, not fit for human consumption.  Livestock are allowed to drink it, but I give the cows water from the rural water system, most of the time they drink from ponds.  About 5 miles west, the city has their water wells, they are good, and say it is the edge of the ogalalah aquafier.   Trouble is, they add so much chemical the water tastes bad.  So I have a reverse osmosis at the house for drinking water.

I lived in western Kansas (Syracuse area) fir a few years. There were places with good water and  places with bad water. It could be right across the road. Weird.

EOTE, I thought you were one of those lucky guys who had not screwed up your back when you were younger.  Guess I was wrong.  Think ALL of us who actually accomplish something in this life have a bad back. My inversion device does give me some relief.  Can't go to the chiropractor every day. I TRY to not over do my lifting, but it is difficult to avoid.  Skid steer and thinking has helped a lot.

Quote from: farmfromkansas on July 03, 2020, 09:23:32 PM
EOTE, I thought you were one of those lucky guys who had not screwed up your back when you were younger.  Guess I was wrong.  Think ALL of us who actually accomplish something in this life have a bad back. My inversion device does give me some relief.  Can't go to the chiropractor every day. I TRY to not over do my lifting, but it is difficult to avoid.  Skid steer and thinking has helped a lot.

I guess I am really going to have to look into one of those inversion devices...If it really works, I will have to try it.  I wonder if any gyms have them to try?  I see 'em on the Big "A" but how do you know which one is good?  Some of them look more suited for waterboarding. :)

Could DIY a inversion table? Door hinges a wide plank, couple of pieces of 2x4 and a tall saw horse.... what could go wrong? ;D

I suppose it could end up on the "Did something dumb today" thread.

I have been lucky.  I did lots of dumb stuff when I was young and sports, and developed a strong back.  But have not done so much as I get older that I have worn it out.  lots of stretches and back strengthening exercises on line.  there are muscles to strengthen, and ligaments to strech.  but if the disc is squished and the nerve impinged (pain somewhere other than back like down the leg)  the stretching will not help.  the inversion is supposed to take the constant weight off the disc, and let it rehydrate and thicken back up, and take pressure of the nerve.  working the core muscles, and lifting smart once you have troubles is prob. smart.  a good steady work habit without periods of overuse or no use.  

When I first was having trouble with my back, stopped by the plumbers place, he had some "boots" you clamped on your lower legs, and they had hooks.  He had a pipe mounted across his doorway, and you grabbed the pipe, swung up and hooked the boots on the pipe, then let go and hung, he said for not over 30 seconds, as the blood goes to your head.  Really helped the back that time, so I would stop by and use his boots and bar occasionally.  Then there was this Damark catalog that started showing up, and they had this table contraption, with clamps for your feet.  I ordered one.  And it sits in the basement where I go and hang occasionally.

it is one thing to get up there all upside down.  I wonder how many fire calls there are to help get people down, or after they fall on their head.  :o :o :o :) I had a boss with that in the a doorway back in the 80s.

I tried that but found that it was too much strain on my body.
I only tilt to a little over 130 degrees and no more than 12 minutes.
Worse part about tilting is you can't really do much. I find it hard to watch TV or read upside down but my dog sure does like to lick my face while I'm vulnerable.
Tilting doesn't work for everyone and it takes a bit of getting used to but it works well for me.
The draw back is it's a big price of equipment so you need a place to set it up.
I bought my table on Amazon for $199. Has a 400 pound weight limit.

Quote from: Raider Bill on July 04, 2020, 12:50:38 PMI bought my table on Amazon for $199. Has a 400 pound weight limit.

I guess it would support me twice. :)  Do you mind sharing what brand/model you ended up with?

Quote from: farmfromkansas on July 04, 2020, 11:54:45 AM
you grabbed the pipe, swung up and hooked the boots on the pipe, then let go and hung,

Reminds me of Grandpa on the Munsters.

Quote from: EOTE on July 04, 2020, 06:00:13 PM

Quote from: Raider Bill on July 04, 2020, 12:50:38 PMI bought my table on Amazon for $199. Has a 400 pound weight limit.

I guess it would support me twice. :)  Do you mind sharing what brand/model you ended up with?

It's the Ironman gravity. Looks like the price went down $20. Since 2014
Robot Check (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VSKAI8/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apap_BrfAJpCGUh4yw)

That is nicer than the old one I have.  I always find things on amazon, then search the item, and find it from another seller for less.

It's pretty basic. Just clamp and flip.
I thought it had a 400 lb weight limit but looks like it's only 350. I better start watching my weight.

This weekend we stubbed out all the rainwater collection plumbing for the house.  It was fairly simple; 6 - downspout stubs, 4 - exterior water spigots (one on each side of the house), and the associated collection piping.  The tanks have not been chosen but the site for the storage tanks has been (about 50' from the house).  We did not extend the plumbing to the tank area and won't until we are ready to connect the tanks.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200705_072757.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1593998259)
 


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200705_071654.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1593998242)
 

The collection system is split to provide an even distribution of collection load (one half of the roof on each half of the system).
The water distribution system is 1" PVC and provides a single outlet on each side of the house.  We will place a pump, filter system, and pressure tank down by the storage tanks.  Probably something in the neighborhood of a 3/4 hp. pump like we are using in the barn for the potable water system.  We are looking at 4 - 3 to 4 thousand gallon tanks for non-potable storage.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200705_164401.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1593998292)
 

We had 4" of rain over the last 2 days so not much opportunity to backfill around the home site.  So I finished another pallet of T&G and made a concrete tube and cover for the septic system.  Late last evening I was able to pull the tape off the trench drain in the courtyard and remove the covers to clean up all the concrete that washed into the drain during the pour. (The drain was covered with tape but because it rained when they poured the water settled above the trench drain.  We had to cut slits in the tape to let the water out through the drain.)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200707_155116.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1594209816)


I used flexible landscape edging to create the form as no sonotube the sizes I needed was available.  The inside diameter is 16" and the thickness is 2"

 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/54084/IMG_20200707_165210.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1594209833)


The cement trucks crushed the ends of the culvert on my road around the barn so I have to replace that culvert and widen the turning radius of the road with more gravel.  Because it is so wet I am going to make 2 gravel runs this week.

Been awhile, any updates?

He got mad and chose to exercise his free will and decided to leave the Forestry Forum of his own volition. 

Well that's a dang shame. Very sorry to read this. a Good man there. I don't know what caused it all, but I am very sorry to see him leave.

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on August 15, 2020, 07:23:24 PM
Well that's a dang shame. Very sorry to read this. a Good man there. I don't know what caused it all, but I am very sorry to see him leave.

I think he got a little wound up about the corona virus mask situation 

Quote from: Walnut Beast on August 15, 2020, 08:04:50 PMI think he got a little wound up about the corona virus mask situation

Too bad.  It was a great thread and was hoping to continue to follow. :(

I was looking forward to following his build.

Me too, I liked watching the progress, maybe he will shed the burr under the saddle. 

Quote from: Walnut Beast on August 15, 2020, 08:04:50 PM

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on August 15, 2020, 07:23:24 PM
Well that's a dang shame. Very sorry to read this. a Good man there. I don't know what caused it all, but I am very sorry to see him leave.

I think he got a little wound up about the corona virus mask situation

Well heck, he don't need to wear it when he's on the forum!  The Corona Cops can't see ya through the computer screen... Can they???