I'm looking to move up from my Hobart 135 to a 220 machine.I am a hobby welder doing repair and light fab work.An older Lincoln Sp-175 plus is available locally light use ,heated garage, with cart,gloves,Hawk helmet,gas and 23' cord.Asking price is $750.A new Hobart 190 can be had for under $700.00,just the welder.
Suggestions please.
Thanks,Mick
A Hobart 210 can run on 110 (power limited) or 220 and can be had used in the price range you are talking. Selling the 135 would give a significant offset on the purchase price and you would not loose any capability. My $0.02 ;)
Another question might be are you running just flux core now or also with a bottle? If you don't have a bottle, getting one in a package can make a difference.
Lincoln and miller are great brands, I consider Hobart to be homeowner stuff. not necessarily bad. I am a hobby guy as well so for what it is worth. I have a miller 250x. many service centers will take care of some, but not all. might check to see what service is available in your area. we used to have many welding supply/retailers, now they are all bought up by the same company.
My local AIR Gas dealer gives the older Lincoln a thumbs up.I have a relationship with them and have been swapping out cylinders with them for 20 years.I'm not looking for a big step up.
I am currently use solid wire with gas.
Just stepping up to the Lincoln 175 will be a big improvement. I used a Hobart 175 for quite a while and got a lot done with it, even though like Doc said, it's a homeowner class welder. Really worked OK. The Lincoln deal sounds good, especially with the thumbs-up from your AirGas guy.
I got a chance to step up to a Snapon 250 this year, and it suited my needs better than that 175. Snapon is not generally considered a good way to go on welders, but they are good and it was a good deal from a friend so I made the switch. I kinda wish I'd kept the Hobart 175 too, but I really couldn't justify that.
Good luck with your upgrade and enjoy the extra capability.
I have run Hobart, Lincoln and Miller of various sizes over the years and I prefer the Miller units myself. Currently own a Miller 210. I used a newer Lincoln with the temp and feed controls on the stinger handle for a couple of days and I liked that a lot.
From experience I don't think there is a lot of difference in over all performance of any of the welders that I have used over the years.
I bought a Miller because I know the salesman at Praxair and they are the closest dealer to me for supplies. If they sold lincoln thats what I would probably own.
The one thing I will say for advice;
When you are spending the money for a welder, going up a size is NEVER a bad thing but you will kick you self over and over every time your welder is too small for a task you NEED to do. I have used a couple of the small 110 and light 220 models but I can do that kind of welding with my acetylene torch set and dont need the over lap.
I have had 2 x 15 ish minute jobs in the last week for neighbors that have welders that were too small for the task at hand so I get tagged to do the deed for them. I dont mind doing it but I know how frustrated it would be for me to have a welder that doesn't meet ALL my needs.
I just see that Fornay has a new unit that migs,tigs and stick welds.
Quote from: Bruno of NH on December 20, 2019, 12:32:03 PM
I just see that Fornay has a new unit that migs,tigs and stick welds.
Miller has one like that too called a Multi-Matic. Looks like a pretty nice unit.
I have a Fornay 110 wide feed
It works good for small stuff.
Would like to step up some time.
Would like a multi unit.
Keep your small 135 with the 110v power it will come in handy at times as you can run it off of a #12 extension cord at 50' or a #10 cord at 75to 100'. I have a 140 Hobart handler that I did that with many times. much easier for light or thin jobs, without having to get the job close to the bigger welding machine, I also have the larger migs, Linde 225 and a Lincoln commercial SP200 very good for heaver work but not for sheet metal at least that is my limited experiences. I also have two, Miller 250 twin, arc machines for welding on the heavy jobs. My first mig was a CK175 purchased in about 1998 and stolen about 2001. That was a very nice welding machine for the hobby/farm work that I do.
I have a Lincoln,no idea the model,bought it 15 years ago,runs off 220. I made a 2 wheeler into a "welding cart" I do 99% of my welding outside,on a gravel driveway. I have my welding tools in the 2 wheeler. I build a box out of 1/8 metal and bolted it to te 2 wheel. Than I read the manual and that told me how much corded wire I could use. Hang onto your wallet when you buy corded wire. :o I have it wrapped up on the cart. I unwrap what I need to get to my welding project.
My FIL stepped down the 220 to 110 on the cart,so I have 110 power on the cart.
I had a small Lincoln that used 110. Than I went to one that used 220. WOW!! What a diffance Like night and day..
I used a Miller 150 for almost 25 yrs. It was a big (30 lb.) spool machine, 240v, running 75/25 argon. It welded good, had 4 heat levels which I found 3 to be the most useful. 1 and 2 were almost worthless to keep a steady arc. #4 (hottest) was difficult as well as it was the upper end and the machine just wouldn't have a steady arc either. It was under powered and lacked true range.
I finally pulled out my wallet (!) and upgraded to a Miller 252. I expected to see a difference but I was a little shocked. It confirmed what I had always suspected, my machine was holding my weld quality down. It will lay a bead like warm butter on warm bread.
My suggestion is if you can find a buddy with a welder like you want to buy ask him/her if you could come and use it. Maybe a dealer could assist with this request. I hate to say it but better machines cost more money, they just do. Saving up for something really nice is worth it, you might have it for decades, which is something to think hard about.
Something I learned in my transition to the bigger machine was the cost of gas. I had a 75 cu ft bottle with my 150 that I kept and then I was given a 125 cu ft bottle from my father in law. The difference between getting those 2 different bottles filled was ~$10. I couldn't believe my ears, and asked him to repeat what he said. Now I keep my 75 cu ft bottle as a reserve to use, only if I run out in the middle of a project or if I can't drive in right away and get my bigger one filled.
I have a Lincoln 'Cracker Box' stick welder at the farm, I think ~225 amp. Here at home I have a Hobart 180 MIG (gas/solid wire) that has served me well for ~15 years. Of course there is also an Oxy-Acet torch at each location for heating, cutting, & brazing.
If I'm not mistaken, Miller owns Hobart, and through the years, they have morphed the units where most parts are interchanable. Our Miller dealer sells the Hobart 250 (equivalent to the Miller 250) with Miller stinger and feed head as their preferred general all purpose workhorse unit. The Miller and Hobart power units are virtually identical and have the same duty cycle, however, the Hobart sells cheaper because it doesn't have the Miller paint scheme. I'm not sure about Hobart units sold at big box stores, generally they are lesser and cheaper versions. Kind of like a John Deere or Cub Cadet at Lowes or Home Depot is not the same machine sold at a dealer.
I've had a Hobart 175 and also a Miller stick welder. I've used Lincoln, Miller and Hobart equipment in professional fabrication at work and home for 30 years, using it for TIG, stick and MIG. Very good equipment if bought from a dealer.
A gas bottle is a real upgrade from flux core wire.
A Hobart/Miller 250 is an all purpose beast and I routinely weld 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" plate, and up to 3/4" although it will also weld easily down to 1/8". Upgrading to .035" wire will really help with thick stock, but I think the smaller .030" wire will allow more detailed welding of smaller projects.
You could weld a bridge to Hawaii with one.
Quote from: DMcCoy on December 21, 2019, 06:58:14 AMSaving up for something really nice is worth it, you might have it for decades, which is something to think hard about.
The only caveat I will give to this is that the newer machines have a lot more circuitry inside of them which changes the game. The old AC machines will last forever. with no moving parts. The newer old machines are still pretty simple with basic repairable internals. When you get into autoset and other very nice features, you get circuit boards and the associated lifespan of circuit boards. Kind of like how old TV's last forever and new ones sure don't! Yes they are better quality than what would be a in a flat panel TV, but still have limited lifespan and question of how long it will be supported. One of the boards (there were 5 or 6 in there) went out on a commercial duty TIG here at work and it was $1100 for just the board!
Now if you are a professional welder, the features are well worth it even if there is an expensive repair. But for the hobby guy wanting a good quality long term machine without a lot of upkeep, my opinion is that simpler is better.
I also think that Yellowhammer is on point, but could not say that with certainty either.
i have replaced the liner of the welding lead once, and my plasma torch required an air valve. I have a buzz box over 50 years old with no problems, to your point.
Illinois Tool Works Inc. (ITW) is the mother company and manufacturers both Miller and Hobart welders.
At home I have 220 volt Lincoln 175 (I think) mig. It does pretty well up to 5/16, maybe 3/8". At the two schools where I have taught ag we have had Miller, Hobart and Lincoln migs. The Lincolns with the separate wire feeder at my current school are a source of a lot of consternation. When they run well they do a good job but wire snarls around the drive roller have been problematic even after replacing parts (LN-7 feeder). A couple of years ago I ordered a Hobart 220 mig for the school's shop (I had three at my previous school). That machine is reliable and produces good welds. If I were buying one for my home shop that would be the one, if buying today.
The old Millermatic 250 is also a beast of a machine. If money were not factored in or if I were buying a mig welder to make a living, this would be the one or the newer variation of it.
I've got the Hobart 210 MVP, Nice having the option of both 110 and 220. I believe I paid $700 delivered, and started running 110 flux core until I got a bottle and a generator. Now 220 is all I run, but it's nice to know I can pull it off the cart and take it with me and weld flux in the field with only an extension cord if need be.
Having owned 3 of the Lincoln SP170,s I can tell you that it's a great welder for hobbiest use. It will compete with some of our shop welders up to 140 amps or so, but the limitation is the duty cycle. If you can live with welding maybe 6 feet before the thermal limit trips out, it's fine. Very few hobby welds run anywhere near that in a continuous length. For welding a couple joints, cooling while you fit up the next, and continuing, it's a great welder.
Don't even consider a 120VAV welder for any kind of serious use.
2 BIG THINGS to consider. That exact same welder sold by various vendors is not the same. Costco used to sell it for way cheap. But it didn't have a gas solenoid, and was designed for hard wire (self shielding wire) only. Even worse they sold it with a single pass wire, and a lot of people weld, chip, weld, chip, etc. All those welds will crack out from the root. You need to have a weld shop order in a specific wire designed for multipass use. By the time you bought the regulator, solenoids, etc. It cost more than a properly equipped one.
A 40 ft3 tank of Argon /Co2 is worth a couple hundred bucks, the hose and regulator maybe another $100. That welder, used with a tank and reg would be worth $550 - $650, tops at an auction with 2 clowns fighting each other might be $750.
I agree, I'm a big fan of buying specialized equipment from a dealer, one who is in business to make sure their stuff integrates and works well.
Also, a MIG set really shines with gas, I mean that is its name, "Metal Inert Gas". The correct gas mix will allow a hotter, more controllable weld puddle, better penetration with less amperage, and eases the welding process. Flux core wire is intended to do the same thing, but its only a poor substitute for a true gas shield. With gas the weld is shiny and clean, and never requires chipping.
I used to buy my tanks, but now just lease them. Its easier and cost less.
Get a good helmet, and I like the ones that use double or triple A batteries instead of the hard to find watch batteries.
One of the best tips I can give is for the people who have a fridge in their work area. There is no better place to store a welding helmet than in a refrigerator. It keeps spiders, bugs, dust, and dirt out of the helmet, and the cold temps help extend battery life.
Thanks for all your input.the welder comes complete with gas tank 50%,extra roll of wire,gloves,cart,Hawk welding helmet and 23 foot extension cord.It is clean and has very little use by a little old lady who only welded on Sundays.
Might be my Christmas present to myself.
I bought a Hobart MIG 185 about 8 years ago that I've been happy with. When I bought it I compared it to the same size Miller. The Miller had steel rollers and components in the feed which was a plus over the Hobart plastic rollers. The Miller had more electronics and a higher price both of which were negatives for my planned use.
If you ever think you might weld aluminum a slightly bigger machine that would accept a spool gun would be in order. I do aluminum with my Lincoln TIG.
Good luck with your choice and don't burn down the Christmas tree playing with it!
Quote from: YellowHammer on December 22, 2019, 08:25:02 AM
I agree, I'm a big fan of buying specialized equipment from a dealer, one who is in business to make sure their stuff integrates and works well.
Also, a MIG set really shines with gas, I mean that is its name, "Metal Inert Gas". The correct gas mix will allow a hotter, more controllable weld puddle, better penetration with less amperage, and eases the welding process. Flux core wire is intended to do the same thing, but its only a poor substitute for a true gas shield. With gas the weld is shiny and clean, and never requires chipping.
I used to buy my tanks, but now just lease them. Its easier and cost less.
Get a good helmet, and I like the ones that use double or triple A batteries instead of the hard to find watch batteries.
One of the best tips I can give is for the people who have a fridge in their work area. There is no better place to store a welding helmet than in a refrigerator. It keeps spiders, bugs, dust, and dirt out of the helmet, and the cold temps help extend battery life.
This will depend on the type of Flux Cored wire their is Self shielded and Gas Shielded flux cored wire. Hardwire short circuit mig is a very light duty process with huge chances of lack of fusion, take the same gas but switch to dual shield wire yes it requires more clean up but you know it's burning hot into the joint.
I was talking about conventional mild steel welding with thicker plate and angle rather than sheet metal, using ER70S-6 and C25, which are good all purpose and common filler metal and welding gas available everywhere. With the proper settings, they will give full penetration and clean welds in most common sizes of steel stock with very little effort.
@YellowHammer (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=11488) 3/16 down to sheet metal yes short circuit mig is fine, but with a switch of drive rolls and wire you can easily burn hotter and faster with dual shield flux core. https://youtu.be/6XD2gpCKK-E (https://youtu.be/6XD2gpCKK-E)
Quote from: 47sawdust on December 22, 2019, 12:50:09 PM
Thanks for all your input.the welder comes complete with gas tank 50%,extra roll of wire,gloves,cart,Hawk welding helmet and 23 foot extension cord.It is clean and has very little use by a little old lady who only welded on Sundays.
Might be my Christmas present to myself.
Came across this thread. Was wondering if you purchased it. If so, do you like it?
Yes I did buy the welder and will get some pictures to post.The difference in the quality of welds between the 135 Hobart(110) and the Lincoln (220) was a real nice surprise.No matter how hard I tried with the 135 my welds didn't seem to be as smooth as I wanted.First attempt with the Lincoln and I felt like I finally learned how to weld.
Quote from: YellowHammer on December 21, 2019, 08:41:45 AMHobart sells cheaper because it doesn't have the Miller paint scheme
Actually the hobart has plastic gears insider where the miller has metal ones. Thats the big difference. You are correct though, most if not all parts are interchangeable. So if you strip a plastic gear you can replace it with a miller metal gear.
Quote from: 47sawdust on April 23, 2020, 02:32:42 PM
Yes I did buy the welder and will get some pictures to post.The difference in the quality of welds between the 135 Hobart(110) and the Lincoln (220) was a real nice surprise.No matter how hard I tried with the 135 my welds didn't seem to be as smooth as I wanted.First attempt with the Lincoln and I felt like I finally learned how to weld.
Oh, glad to hear it. I was debating between Hobart 210 (https://www.amazon.com/Hobart-Handler-210-MVP-Welder/dp/B004USV5UC/) (dual voltage) and Lincoln 180 (https://wisepick.org/best-mig-welder-under-1000/#product2). They are both the same price, and tbh I was leaning towards Hobart, but now I'll pick Lincoln probably. Thanks!
Consumer Hobarts seem to be a box of parts left over from the assembly of the comercial Hobarts. There is a big difference in performance and quality even though the hobarts and miller are built in the same plant. I have a miller 210 and love it.
The Lincoln 180 is *DanG good welder as well. I'd take either one in that model range but my closest dealer is a Miller dealer and I can swap my gas bottle at local NAPA so its 5 minutes away.
Tryed a 110/220 model before I bought my miller 210. That is a no go for me! just not enough welder.
Now you need a Hypertherm plasma cutter 😂
Quote from: Larry on December 22, 2019, 01:52:55 PM
I bought a Hobart MIG 185 about 8 years ago that I've been happy with. When I bought it I compared it to the same size Miller. The Miller had steel rollers and components in the feed which was a plus over the Hobart plastic rollers. The Miller had more electronics and a higher price both of which were negatives for my planned use.
If you ever think you might weld aluminum a slightly bigger machine that would accept a spool gun would be in order. I do aluminum with my Lincoln TIG.
Good luck with your choice and don't burn down the Christmas tree playing with it!
Fronius mig welders like are one of the only ones that you can run aluminum wire effectively in and don't need to change anything. They are the real deal
Anybody have a miller 350p or Lincoln 360 pulse and if so how do they like it
It's all about duty cycle.
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 20, 2021, 10:47:48 PM
Anybody have a miller 350p or Lincoln 360 pulse and if so how do they like it
These are my 'mig' welders. I do have one. Haven't used it yet. I need to change the plug out. Bought it a few years from a friend and hadn't used it for several years. Has the spool gun. He said they didn't use it much, as his business closed when he got hurt, but he said the guy using it loved it.
The hobart is a dream to weld with, i'll say that though. The miller 210 is a nice machine, but not near as smooth as the hobart.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53840/20210221_092623.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613921660)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53840/20210221_092638.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613921674)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53840/20210221_092646.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613921685)
Quote from: moodnacreek on February 21, 2021, 10:34:32 AM
It's all about duty cycle.
If welding long beads, agreed, but in a small self fab shop, doubtful that will be an issue. I have no idea what Walnut plans on using it for though.
I have a Lincoln powermig 215 and haven't been happy with it. For some reason, it doesn't feed consistently. I have replaced liners, tips, cones, drive rollers. I can weld 10 perfect welds, then it will get funky for a while jumping, spitting, farting for a while on the exact same settings without moving or pushing capacity.
It gets the job done, but, there is some feed issue I haven't been able to resolve.
The 350P is a great machine, but for a little more than what they're going for used, you can get a new, and newer model 255 Millermatic. Check out the youtube videos. It's a spray arc machine.
I have a 251 that has just developed their common circuit board troubles. I had some scientist friends help me troubleshoot the board, but rather than being a common problem with a Capacitor, or Transistor, it has an IC issue. A new board is close to $500, so rather than put that much back into that machine, I'm getting a new 255.
The 255 has pulse, and other adjustments that the 251 didn't have. It's the only machine that our local welding center keeps in stock, and they say it's the only machine anyone is buying. It will also take a Push-Pull gun, like the 350P, if you have much aluminum welding to do.
I also have a little Lincoln 120V Mig machine. It's handy to have, but with amperage, and duty cycle limits, it will not put enough heat into anything but small stuff.
Watching that video, I can hear my teacher and now gone dear friend, who was President of the National Welders Association (or something like that) for two terms, and has stuff sitting on the Moon that he welded, telling me that I'm putting too much "metal in the weld". Penetration is a good thing, but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.
Been looking at Lincoln 180's and 140's. Have several bale feeders that need repaired, and using my stick welder with tiny rod, just burn holes in the thin metal. Would a 140 work for that or would a 180 work ok? The 140 is 120 volt, the 180 is 220-240.
Quote from: Sedgehammer on February 21, 2021, 10:35:55 AM
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 20, 2021, 10:47:48 PM
Anybody have a miller 350p or Lincoln 360 pulse and if so how do they like it
These are my 'mig' welders. I do have one. Haven't used it yet. I need to change the plug out. Bought it a few years from a friend and hadn't used it for several years. Has the spool gun. He said they didn't use it much, as his business closed when he got hurt, but he said the guy using it loved it.
The hobart is a dream to weld with, i'll say that though. The miller 210 is a nice machine, but not near as smooth as the hobart.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53840/20210221_092623.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613921660)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53840/20210221_092638.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613921674)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53840/20210221_092646.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613921685)
Have you used the 350p
Quote from: Tom King on February 21, 2021, 01:47:17 PM
The 350P is a great machine, but for a little more than what they're going for used, you can get a new, and newer model 255 Millermatic. Check out the youtube videos. It's a spray arc machine.
I have a 251 that has just developed their common circuit board troubles. I had some scientist friends help me troubleshoot the board, but rather than being a common problem with a Capacitor, or Transistor, it has an IC issue. A new board is close to $500, so rather than put that much back into that machine, I'm getting a new 255.
The 255 has pulse, and other adjustments that the 251 didn't have. It's the only machine that our local welding center keeps in stock, and they say it's the only machine anyone is buying. It will also take a Push-Pull gun, like the 350P, if you have much aluminum welding to do.
I also have a little Lincoln 120V Mig machine. It's handy to have, but with amperage, and duty cycle limits, it will not put enough heat into anything but small stuff.
Watching that video, I can hear my teacher and now gone dear friend, who was President of the National Welders Association (or something like that) for two terms, and has stuff sitting on the Moon that he welded, telling me that I'm putting too much "metal in the weld". Penetration is a good thing, but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.
The inverter machines are kinda taking over. That 255 is a nice machine. Nice info Tom 👍
I would get the 180
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 21, 2021, 06:07:17 PM
I would get the 180
Farmfromkansas. The 140 would be fine for thin stuff. But if you want to do a little extra you will be wishing you would have went with the 180
If you have 220 available get a 220. Do not even think of anything less. everyone and I mean everyone that starts with a 110 machine eventually gets a 220 machine. Do not buy twice!
Miller does have the ones that run on both that is a great option if you need 110 for any reason.
Quote from: Crusarius on February 21, 2021, 06:21:16 PM
everyone and I mean everyone that starts with a 110 machine eventually gets a 220 machine. Do not buy twice!
Where was you when I bought a 110 about 25 years ago!! :D
The duty time is bad. About 15 minutes, than wait for it to reset for 10. :( I am only a small time welder, so I would use that wait time to cut more metal. ::)
No duty time on a 220. ;D
I do 99% of my welding outside. I use a 2 wheeler with a big box to keep all the welding stuff inside. Welder on the bottom and what ever corded wire wrapped up on the back. If I need 10 feet I unwrap 10 feet, I need 50 feet, I unwrap 50 feet. That corded wire is not cheap. :o But has paid for itself every time I weld.
Also with a 220 I can weld thick stuff or thin stuff.
Quote from: Tom King on February 21, 2021, 01:47:17 PM
The 350P is a great machine, but for a little more than what they're going for used, you can get a new, and newer model 255 Millermatic. Check out the youtube videos. It's a spray arc machine.
I have a 251 that has just developed their common circuit board troubles. I had some scientist friends help me troubleshoot the board, but rather than being a common problem with a Capacitor, or Transistor, it has an IC issue. A new board is close to $500, so rather than put that much back into that machine, I'm getting a new 255.
The 255 has pulse, and other adjustments that the 251 didn't have. It's the only machine that our local welding center keeps in stock, and they say it's the only machine anyone is buying. It will also take a Push-Pull gun, like the 350P, if you have much aluminum welding to do.
I also have a little Lincoln 120V Mig machine. It's handy to have, but with amperage, and duty cycle limits, it will not put enough heat into anything but small stuff.
Watching that video, I can hear my teacher and now gone dear friend, who was President of the National Welders Association (or something like that) for two terms, and has stuff sitting on the Moon that he welded, telling me that I'm putting too much "metal in the weld". Penetration is a good thing, but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.
Tom are you going to go with the Millermatic or Multimatic 300 bucks diff you get the stick but no tig. I'm leaning toward the Millermatic really hard. When compared to the transformer 252 which I really like. It's tuff to beat the 255 with pulse. And that's what I want. I've got a Fronius TransSteel 2200 so aluminum, stick and tig are covered there but it's not good for 1/2 inch and now I need that. I had a Miller 250 before. With the pulse you get several benefits the two biggest less spatter and excellent penetration without the heat distortion you would get with a 252.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/EB615A51-5093-4DC7-A8AF-9A65AD7B2EE6.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1613992468)
The bigger Fronius welders only come in three phase
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 21, 2021, 05:35:58 PM
Quote from: Sedgehammer on February 21, 2021, 10:35:55 AM
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 20, 2021, 10:47:48 PM
Anybody have a miller 350p or Lincoln 360 pulse and if so how do they like it
These are my 'mig' welders. I do have one. Haven't used it yet. I need to change the plug out. Bought it a few years from a friend and hadn't used it for several years. Has the spool gun. He said they didn't use it much, as his business closed when he got hurt, but he said the guy using it loved it.
The hobart is a dream to weld with, i'll say that though. The miller 210 is a nice machine, but not near as smooth as the hobart.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53840/20210221_092623.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613921660)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53840/20210221_092638.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613921674)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53840/20210221_092646.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1613921685)
Have you used the 350p
unfortunately I haven't. i need to change that plug out. I'll prolly do that this week. Maybe even today. i'll use it on my welding trailer remodel.
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 22, 2021, 06:06:30 AM
Quote from: Tom King on February 21, 2021, 01:47:17 PM
The 350P is a great machine, but for a little more than what they're going for used, you can get a new, and newer model 255 Millermatic. Check out the youtube videos. It's a spray arc machine.
I have a 251 that has just developed their common circuit board troubles. I had some scientist friends help me troubleshoot the board, but rather than being a common problem with a Capacitor, or Transistor, it has an IC issue. A new board is close to $500, so rather than put that much back into that machine, I'm getting a new 255.
The 255 has pulse, and other adjustments that the 251 didn't have. It's the only machine that our local welding center keeps in stock, and they say it's the only machine anyone is buying. It will also take a Push-Pull gun, like the 350P, if you have much aluminum welding to do.
I also have a little Lincoln 120V Mig machine. It's handy to have, but with amperage, and duty cycle limits, it will not put enough heat into anything but small stuff.
Watching that video, I can hear my teacher and now gone dear friend, who was President of the National Welders Association (or something like that) for two terms, and has stuff sitting on the Moon that he welded, telling me that I'm putting too much "metal in the weld". Penetration is a good thing, but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.
Tom are you going to go with the Millermatic or Multimatic 300 bucks diff you get the stick but no tig. I'm leaning toward the Millermatic really hard. When compared to the transformer 252 which I really like. It's tuff to beat the 255 with pulse. And that's what I want. I've got a Fronius TransSteel 2200 so aluminum, stick and tig are covered there but it's not good for 1/2 inch and now I need that. I had a Miller 250 before. With the pulse you get several benefits the two biggest less spatter and excellent penetration without the heat distortion you would get with a 252.
Millermatic. Just have too much stuff piled in the mechanic shop to get anything else in it right now, and have a few jobs to finish up, and get out of there before I bother to bring it in. My welding shop matches online prices, and keeps one in stock.
Quote from: blackfoot griz on February 21, 2021, 01:34:59 PM
I have a Lincoln powermig 215 and haven't been happy with it. For some reason, it doesn't feed consistently. I have replaced liners, tips, cones, drive rollers. I can weld 10 perfect welds, then it will get funky for a while jumping, spitting, farting for a while on the exact same settings without moving or pushing capacity.
It gets the job done, but, there is some feed issue I haven't been able to resolve.
Could it be the wire?
Quote from: moodnacreek on February 22, 2021, 08:42:50 AM
Quote from: blackfoot griz on February 21, 2021, 01:34:59 PM
I have a Lincoln powermig 215 and haven't been happy with it. For some reason, it doesn't feed consistently. I have replaced liners, tips, cones, drive rollers. I can weld 10 perfect welds, then it will get funky for a while jumping, spitting, farting for a while on the exact same settings without moving or pushing capacity.
It gets the job done, but, there is some feed issue I haven't been able to resolve.
Could it be the wire?
I don't think the wire has been the issue. I have put a lot of wire through it and it still will have its moments. It still is my go to welder unless I need to really cook something, then out comes the old tombstone stick welder.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/3207CB1F-CC98-49EC-899C-CC622653A023.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1614308084)
Pulse mig on the way
Quote from: blackfoot griz on February 21, 2021, 01:34:59 PM
I have a Lincoln powermig 215 and haven't been happy with it. For some reason, it doesn't feed consistently. I have replaced liners, tips, cones, drive rollers. I can weld 10 perfect welds, then it will get funky for a while jumping, spitting, farting for a while on the exact same settings without moving or pushing capacity.
It gets the job done, but, there is some feed issue I haven't been able to resolve.
I have a miller 211 I had the same issues with it. Finally had a guy from were I worked at the time that had burned more rods and wire than I will in my life time look at it. He walked in my shop and looked at the welder and said throw that miller gun in the trash and put a heavy style tweco gun on it and it will weld like it should. This 211 is the first mig welder I had owned. The next day on the way home I bought the heavy duty old school tweco gun put it on the welder and its been a great welder since. That was probably seven years ago and many twenty pounds rolls of wire.
There is a lot to be said on the gun business end. I'm glad to see the new Miller I'm getting has there updated gun. I'll dig a picture up of the Fronius gun it is absolutely heavy duty
Fronius welders are expensive but are the real deal. Here is there mig gun that is a 320 amp gun. Comes standard on the TransSteel 2200 and is one of the only ones you can switch from welding steel to aluminum with the same mig gun.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/0DED5C31-8CA3-4FDE-B79A-326D9229B08C.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1614378956)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/63FEF2C5-2692-4344-9E47-FD541E376120.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1615092663)
350 amp pulsed mig
Quote from: blackfoot griz on February 21, 2021, 01:34:59 PM
I have a Lincoln powermig 215 and haven't been happy with it. For some reason, it doesn't feed consistently. I have replaced liners, tips, cones, drive rollers. I can weld 10 perfect welds, then it will get funky for a while jumping, spitting, farting for a while on the exact same settings without moving or pushing capacity.
It gets the job done, but, there is some feed issue I haven't been able to resolve.
Check the spindle that your spool rides on. Sometimes my hobart will self tighten onto the spindle spool. Also over tensioning the rollers will deform the wire and make erratic feed.
Turn off your gas, back off your feed roll tension and trigger the wire into something ungrounded like a wooden bench or chain or toolbox etc. Increase tension until the wire juuust starts to shove your hand away consistently, and no more. Also try a felt luber/cleaner puck, it hangs on the wire inside the machine just before the rolls.
My gun needs a new liner.
The miller 252 at work was the nicest bead layer i ever sparked up but the boards for it were 2x as much as the hobart ironman 230 i got for half of the blue box msrp. Its been plenty sufficient but no frills.
Quote from: mike_belben on March 07, 2021, 06:58:45 AM
Quote from: blackfoot griz on February 21, 2021, 01:34:59 PM
I have a Lincoln powermig 215 and haven't been happy with it. For some reason, it doesn't feed consistently. I have replaced liners, tips, cones, drive rollers. I can weld 10 perfect welds, then it will get funky for a while jumping, spitting, farting for a while on the exact same settings without moving or pushing capacity.
It gets the job done, but, there is some feed issue I haven't been able to resolve.
Check the spindle that your spool rides on. Sometimes my hobart will self tighten onto the spindle spool. Also over tensioning the rollers will deform the wire and make erratic feed.
Turn off your gas, back off your feed roll tension and trigger the wire into something ungrounded like a wooden bench or chain or toolbox etc. Increase tension until the wire juuust starts to shove your hand away consistently, and no more. Also try a felt luber/cleaner puck, it hangs on the wire inside the machine just before the rolls.
My gun needs a new liner.
The miller 252 at work was the nicest bead layer i ever sparked up but the boards for it were 2x as much as the hobart ironman 230 i got for half of the blue box msrp. Its been plenty sufficient but no frills.
Thank you for the suggestions. I have put hundreds of pounds of wire through it. The randomness of the feeding issue is what drives me nuts. It will work perfectly for hours, then, for no obvious reason, act up for a bit then back to normal. All of this on the same settings without moving or changing position. Years ago, I thought the problem may have been the 10 pound spool of HF wire I tried. I yanked it put some Lincoln wire in all was fine for a while then it acted up for a while. Later, I used the remainder of the HF wire with no issues.
It does this on 2-3 welds out of 100...randomly for no obvious reason.
I guess can you leave the door up and record while you weld? then if it happens review the video. but sounds like it does not happen often. has to be a reason. I was given a spool once cause it was damaged. it was on a wire framed spool and a spot weld had broke. I straightened it out, and rewelded the spool. did not have trouble but used as it was, could have caught a strand of wire when it rolled around and near the edge. I have used the lube pads. If it happens, tell yourself to stop immediately and go look. prob. obvious but I am frustrated just reading about it. :)
Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 06, 2021, 11:55:47 PM
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350 amp pulsed mig
Thanks for posting a picture, with the HF cart/cabinet. I hadn't thought about that. I was just going to get the Miller cart, but thought at the time that they were too proud of it. I'm going with what you did.
I like high quality tools and the such but for the money some of HF toolboxes and welder carts are tuff to beat for the money. I agree Tom the Miller cart is to expensive for what you get and it's to low for my liking. Plus on the HF you have two cylinder storage as Miller recommends C 10 for Pulse mode
When the gun jams up is the wire burning back into the tip and getting stuck? Usually sounds soft and hissy for just a second before jamming up i bet. .. ?
Next time it jams trigger it a few more times to shove wire into the liner and then straighten the gun all out and twist it around various ways.. See if you can get a "click" sound out of it and a sudden unsticking. That click sound will tell you where in the gun lead the problem is, if its the gun at all.
Mine its usually at the machine or the gun end.. Never the middle. I use a string off the handlebar as a stress relief to hold the gun lead up a bit where it doesnt have a sharp radius. Otherwise it droops.
2 old sawzall blades taped under the bottom as leaf springs will help support a floppy cable coming out of the machine too, if string or a bungee isnt an option.
This isnt usually the cure but it helps reduce overall friction and runs smoother.
I went welder shopping last week, can get a new Miller 211 for 1200, and they wanted 1400 for the Lincoln 180. Lowes and Home Depot have a cheap version of the 180 for between 6 and 700. Says the wire feed has plastic parts instead of aluminum, weighs 66 lbs vs 80 lbs for the 180c. So looking at the Miller 211. They say it is built with an inverter instead of a transformer. ??? Not an electrician so not sure what that means, but they said the duty cycle is better. Was also looking at a HF cart, 119 instead of 300. Went to an auction, they had a 212 Miller, with a bottle, sold for 2100. Seems the welder companies are phasing out the old style welders and going to inverters.
Get the Miller. You will be happy
1,200 bucks is a pretty good deal everybody online has it for 1,355
That 211 Miller is a work horse! I Got the 210. You will be very happy with it.
I just ordered a 3035 20" spool gum for mine. Havent done aluminum for years but the demand is pretty good and i need to do some aluminum fab work for saw mill gear and tooling.
of all the tools in my shop my big blue box would take the most work to pry from my cold dead hand :)
I have a 212, I have run several hundred pounds of wire through it and only thing I have changed is tips. It is starting to feed a little funny when I kink the hose but I have not adjusted anything for quite a while.
You will not be disappointed with a blue box.
C 10 is about the same price as C 25 but nobody puts the C 10 in the smaller bottles. There only putting the C 10 in the big ones and a new bottle is either 348 or 84 can't remember plus tax on everything 😡. 90 to fill on top of that. Or lease one for a year for 160 something from two other places that's all they do. Pulse mig is going to have to wait awhile. Use the C 25 and switch out to Argon then buy the big bottle of C 10
Miller welders are going up in price the 15th Monday to anyone who cares 😂. From Bakers Gas so I'm assuming everywhere else
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If your looking for a welding helmet That's pretty incredible here it is
Thanks for the heads up on price increase! Looks like they're going up a little over $300. I found one that hadn't raised the price yet, and placed my order. You just saved me the $300.
Good deal Tom 👍
I'm curious as to if y'all have had any problems with your Miller welding equipment?
I've had several Miller welders, including a 130, Syncrowave 250, Trailblazer Pro 350D, Spectrum 2050 plasma, and a suitcase MIG.
A few years back I started having problems with electronic boards failing prematurely. When I spoke with my local welding shops they told me that I was not alone; Miller had off-shored the manufacture of their circuit boards back in the early 2000's and subsequently they were seeing a log of premature failures on the Miller equipment. Per the dealer, the ratio was around 10:1 as compared with Lincoln.
I don't leave my equipment plugged in when it's not in use, yet I had to spend $1,500 on replacement boards for my Syncrowave 250 and Miller also required that I purchase a 2,500 "upgrade" when they repaired it. Basically the "upgrade" was required in order to fix the design flaw in the machine that resulted in premature board failure.
The Spectrum 2050 also had a board failure, along with a switch wiring failure in the Miller Mig gun. Over 2K to repair. Both machines had less than 40 hours of use on them at the time of the problems.
Then I discovered that Miller's "planned obsolesce" program phased out some of the repair parts availability for my Trailblazer Pro when it was 7 years old.
All of the Miller equipment that I had that was made before the early 2000's was great, but I am sure disappointed with my purchases since then.
My last welder purchase was a Lincoln 210MP and I have been very pleased with it.
Your mileage may vary.
My 251 had a board problem, but that machine was well used when I bought it, and if it had done enough work here, that it didn't owe me anything else anyway. I thought about buying another board for it, but it had done so much work that I really didn't want to put any more time, or money into it. The 255 is a much more capable machine, and I wanted a new one anyway.
Around here, at least, Miller is still the most loved welding machine.
Read here about the price increase, so went to the welding store to see if I could still get the 211 for 1200. They tried to ring it up, and the computer told them 1350. But could still buy it with the cart for 1495. So went that way. Think before I add the 220 circuit, will try it on 110. They said NOT to use it with an extension cord. Even a heavy one. So asked if I could put a longer cord on it, and they said that would void the warranty. So guess I will have to bring the welding to the welder.
Has anyone tried the mig welder that Grizzle advertises?
@farmfromkansas (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=36643) does it talk about duty cycle being different with 110 vs 220. they will tell you lots of stuff. not sure the welder will know the difference between a longer run of Romex versus a 25 foot good heavy extension cord. I do agree that a 220 circuit would be better.
Need to read the book. The sales pitch is this is a inverter welder, so the duty cycle is longer. They said they are changing all the models to inverter. My thinking is a 12 gauge cord should be the same as a longer piece of wiring. ???
I am not sure if at 110 volts, it only goes through 1/2 the wires in the welder. if you get a voltage drop, it will pull more amps. so make sure you have good voltage and watch the temps of cords and plugs. I think if you were pushing the higher amps of the welder, say welding thicker stuff, I would get a 220 circuit. how many amp breaker does it call for.
input Power 120 V: 24.3 A, single-phase, 50/60 Hz 240 V: 16.6 A, single-phase, 50/60 Hz Rated Output 120 V: 115 A at 19.8 VDC, 20% duty cycle 240 V: 150 A at 21.5 VDC, 40% duty cycle
For whatever this is worth this is a small inverter unit on 110 extension factory approved. With a welder this light, you can even haul it out to a job site as far as 330 feet from a power source, running it with an extension cord. In a test on the Baker's Gas and Welding lot, a welder was able to MIG weld at the end of a 325 foot extension cord. Check out the end of this Fronius review for the test (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo_RZqoPxFM&feature=youtu.be).
Take a look at the online electrical load charts for different multi strand wire sizes. as I recall a #10 wire size power cord can carry 30amp draw with very small drop in power and excess heat for 100 ft so if you had a 50' #10 cord you could run the small 110v welders easily and many of the mid size 220 volt machines. I run a Linclon idealarc sp200 mig without any problems on a 50 foot extension cord at the house and a Linde 225 mig at the ranch using a 50ft #8 ex military generator power cord, both with out issues. I also have a miller 250 twin arc welder at each place that use the same cords, but these are older machines without all the fancy circuit boards of todays welders.
I have a 2 wheeler, dolly, with some corded wire. I have no idea how much is on there. I just unwrap what ever I need to get to the job. I have never unwrapped it all the way. I read the manual and did what ever it said for corded wire and length, maybe 50 feet? I have no idea what that was 15 years ago. But I do remember the shock I got when I bought it. :o It was A LOT of money. But worth it over the years that I have used it.
As said, no fancy boards with this old model.
The chart shows a 20 amp breaker. I have a #12- 25' cord there, was planning to use that to get the welder away from the plug. Maybe should look for a #10- 50'. On 220 it shows a 30 amp breaker. Planning to get power into my steel building and use this welder in that building. The building where the old 225 Lincoln is, I have long leads and weld outside. They told me to weld inside, so the gas does not blow away.
Let's see some pics when you get hooked up 👍
It looks like the 110 would need a 30A single pole breaker. the 220 would need the 20A 2 pole. If this is temporary, get romex and make a cord for now. That is based on the stated amps. There will be limits to the 110 V setup. the 220 pulls less amps per side, as there are 2 hot wires.
Quote from: scsmith42 on March 15, 2021, 09:10:20 AM
I'm curious as to if y'all have had any problems with your Miller welding equipment?
I've had several Miller welders, including a 130, Syncrowave 250, Trailblazer Pro 350D, Spectrum 2050 plasma, and a suitcase MIG.
A few years back I started having problems with electronic boards failing prematurely. When I spoke with my local welding shops they told me that I was not alone; Miller had off-shored the manufacture of their circuit boards back in the early 2000's and subsequently they were seeing a log of premature failures on the Miller equipment. Per the dealer, the ratio was around 10:1 as compared with Lincoln.
I don't leave my equipment plugged in when it's not in use, yet I had to spend $1,500 on replacement boards for my Syncrowave 250 and Miller also required that I purchase a 2,500 "upgrade" when they repaired it. Basically the "upgrade" was required in order to fix the design flaw in the machine that resulted in premature board failure.
The Spectrum 2050 also had a board failure, along with a switch wiring failure in the Miller Mig gun. Over 2K to repair. Both machines had less than 40 hours of use on them at the time of the problems.
Then I discovered that Miller's "planned obsolesce" program phased out some of the repair parts availability for my Trailblazer Pro when it was 7 years old.
All of the Miller equipment that I had that was made before the early 2000's was great, but I am sure disappointed with my purchases since then.
My last welder purchase was a Lincoln 210MP and I have been very pleased with it.
Your mileage may vary.
Yes. Smith and wesson had a dynasty 300 tigrunner on a robotic barrel lug welding line in the thompson center cell maybe 2014 or 15ish??.. that quit in short order. It was sent out and the response was $9k to replace the main board, no warranty. I was the one who put the new used machine in the dumpster. It shoulda been put upstairs to atleast pop and swap parts off of but beancounters wanted to 5S the place to prosperity with all their stupid toyota kanban kaisen BS. Whatever.
The 252 mig they got us was a caddillac that didnt die in my time but i dont know if its still alive since. At 2x the purchase price and 2x the cost for boards, i bought a hobart ironman 230 thats been flawless except for ive needed to change the liner for years. I should put a tweco on it.
The 252 welded a touch prettier than my 230 without any effort, but i could build a backyard dumpbody or gooseneck or splitter with it no problem. I could weld 3/4 plate multipass and just wait a few mins here and there for the fan cycle.. Doesnt slow me down ever.
I wouldnt step up from hobart to miller unless it was production welding on the customers money. If its my money hobart is more economical because there are no hobart nutswingers driving the price up. No one is a hobart fan so theyre just good cheap american welders.
Ive had a $600 syncrowave 300 for i dunno.. Almost 20 years now thats approaching 40? My dads idealarc 200 is every bit of 40 and his linde UCC-305 tig is probably closer to 60! Still work fine. Simple old monsters that make a good clutter shelf. I have a 6cyl ford gas hobart 400A stick out back i need to fix. Got it for a cheap junk pistol trade with $75 kicked my way so the risk was low. Engine runs great.. Stationary hydraulic power if the gen coupler cant be found.
There is nothing wrong with a Hobart. I had a 220 Hobart mig welder. It was a good one no problems
Thanks Doc, I have a bigger 110 breaker, the building is wired with #12 wire, thought that 20 amp was about all it would handle. So you think that using 220 is better for the welder? My plan is just to use it on the thin metal I have problems welding with stick.
I think for thin stuff, the 110 is handy if you take it to the job. for heavy stuff, the 220 will be like (literally) running 110 x 2, and sharing a common. for 220 the wire should be cooler and not at the limit. if it is for sheet metal and low amps output prob. fine. give it a try. it must have a different 110 plug. standard house duplexes are 15 amp, and use 14 g wire. the 20 amp would require 12 g wire and a plug with a blade turned. It seems the input for 110 is 26 amps requiring 30 amp breaker and 10 g wire. unless I am missing something. Is there a 220 breaker box in your shop? you could direct wire in the box with a 220 circuit. I am not sure how the welder works on 110 vs 220, but yes I think stronger and cooler at 220. the 110 is a nice option when it is needed. do you have an electrician buddy? If you have a breaker box, can you take a pic of it and or see if there is room for a 220 breaker.
I replaced the old fuse box with a homeline square D, and put a 50 amp breaker in for the old Lincoln 225 welder, along with a couple 20 amp 120 volt breakers. There is room for another double breaker, but think I will put it in the "new building" where I have more room and will be able to keep the mig welder inside. Do most of the welding at the old shed outside, with the old stick welder, and they told me when I bought the 211 miller to weld inside, as the gas will blow away.
I made a little "T" shaped thingy to clear some of the clutter off my welding bench. Thought I would take a couple of pictures. I've been welding for over 50 years but not a welder.
This is my new gadget.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10125/IMG_4189.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1616027028)
This is my combination welding table/cart. It's on rollers so I can roll the whole mess out into the driveway or middle of the shop. One 25' 10 gauge cord goes from the cart to the wall. The acetylene/oxygen tanks are not on the cart but the TIG and MIG tanks do ride the cart.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10125/IMG_4190.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1616027028)
On the left is my Hobart 187 MIG that I bought 10 years ago. Never missed a beat. I've welded up two FEMA approved F5 tornado shelters. I saved enough on the first shelter to pay for the welder. Haven't tested my welds yet! :D Couple of times I wished for a few more amps.
Center is a 80 amp Thermal Dynamics plasma. Its not a Hypertherm, but gets the job done.
Far right is a Lincoln Squarewave TIG. It can also do stick and does it quite well. I like it because I don't have to be smart to run it.
I mostly use the oxy/acetylene for cast iron brazing repair work.
None of my stuff is high end, but all has been reliable and is almost a perfect fit for the stuff I do. I haven't done any heavy fabrication in years.
Looks pretty impressive Larry. Very nice looking setup 👍
Did u build the platten cart top? Nice setup.. I wish i had that level of organization
The green part was a junk machine that I butchered. Next I welded on the slats, added wheels, and made a place for the tanks to sit.
If you want crystal clear view with crystal lens technology Optrel is the Bentley of welding helmets this helmet I just got is amazing. The new head gear I didn't know if I would like is incredible. But the helmets are not cheap. The old Jackson wide view they had were pretty good. I got a auto shade when they first come out before they blew up years ago and said after I had it that was the only way to roll
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/BF0524BB-5B06-46C8-A977-351416CE160B.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616113103)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/857086A4-1874-4906-81E2-930B04D1BFAD.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616113108)
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that looks really nice. a good welding helmet is worth alot to me.
Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 18, 2021, 08:21:15 PM
If you want crystal clear view with crystal lens technology Optrel is the Bentley of welding helmets this helmet I just got is amazing. The new head gear I didn't know if I would like is incredible. But the helmets are not cheap. The old Jackson wide view they had were pretty good. I got a auto shade when they first come out before they blew up years ago and said after I had it that was the only way to roll
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/BF0524BB-5B06-46C8-A977-351416CE160B.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616113103)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/857086A4-1874-4906-81E2-930B04D1BFAD.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616113108)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/474B2A91-69A1-4353-A387-11D85B55E8BC.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616113112)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/6817D1E8-112D-4AED-9DCA-B0A4CBBBCBAC.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616113118)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/7569BE16-AA38-45E4-88D1-BF63FAFD6F3F.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1616113118)
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Yeah they are nice. I almost bought one when my old mask quit (the one that replaced an old ex gen). I just couldn't justify the cost for what little I could weld anymore, but since my surgery I can see again, so I'm welding more........
I've had two Optrel's, my current one is the Crystal 2.0. The clarity is incredible - notably better than any other hood that I've tried.
It took a month, or so, for my 255 to get here.
I decided to build a cart for it, both considering the price of the Miller one, and lack of storage. After looking at the Harbor Freight one, I decided I would like more storage.
I use the little 120v flux core welder to build the cart. Tool cabinet is from Home Depot.
I bought the best, made in the USA 5" casters I could find. I was concerned that there may be a trip hazard to the side, with four swivelers, but it's really okay. The plan was to change the back to a solid axle, if it seemed tippy at all, but it's not. I'll be the only one using it anyway. The casters really do operate nicely, both rolling, and locking and unlocking. It's absolutely easier to park in the shop.
Found some nice brackets that hold the shielding gas tanks without them rattliing around behind chains.
Two metal water hose holders are to allow separate places to coil the gun hose, and ground. Hoping it should be kinder to the gun hose liner than a narrow strap.
There is even a little holder for the Mig gun, that allows it to fit under the cover.
Nothing sticks out past the sides. Helmets in the bottom drawer, leather clothes and gloves in the next one up, magnets in the next drawer, etc. I even have one drawer with nothing in it yet.
I hope to put it to work tomorrow.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35437/IMG_3197.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1619636677)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35437/IMG_3190.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1619636723)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/35437/IMG_3201.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1619636770)
Looks great Tom 👍
that is by far the nicest welding cart I have seen. I love the toolbox idea. usually they are just a catch all shelf with a bunch of hooks and very disorganized.
The 255 Miller welds good enough in 1/2 plate
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millers do just weld nice without much effort. for the money they sure ought to.
out of all the tools in my shop I think I would kick and scream the most if someone tried to take my big blue box away. I love my miller!!!!!
i wanted a 250amp miller back when i was upgrading from a small 220v machine but the money went twice as far in a hobart 230, and the boards and parts are about half the price of a miller. we had just scrapped a not so old miller dynasty 300 off the robotic barrel lug welding line at work over the extremely expensive parts and i just couldnt pull the trigger.
happy with the hobart. it will do what any of you needs unless you are turning out goosenecks and buckets every week.
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Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 25, 2021, 09:55:23 PM
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Pulse mig on the way
There is something to be said for transformer welders. Not vary happy with this welder! It wasn't welding very good. Lots of trouble with voltage running to high. They said it's probably the good old circuit board that's made in Mexico. It's at a Miller service center now. Really bad customer service!! I experienced it and several sources confirmed over the last year Millers customer service is really really bad. Two phone calls to Miller and left call backs and email and have never heard a word back. Other guys said you must have gotten a lemon because it's supposed to be a really good welder 😂
Quote from: Walnut Beast on July 11, 2021, 03:17:31 AM
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 25, 2021, 09:55:23 PM
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Pulse mig on the way
There is something to be said for transformer welders. Not vary happy with this welder! It wasn't welding very good. Lots of trouble with voltage running to high. They said it's probably the good old circuit board that's made in Mexico. It's at a Miller service center now. Really bad customer service!! I experienced it and several sources confirmed over the last year Millers customer service is really really bad. Two phone calls to Miller and left call backs and email and have never heard a word back. Other guys said you must have gotten a lemon because it's supposed to be a really good welder 😂
Between 2003 and 2007 I purchased three new pieces of miller equipment. I had to spend over 5K on board repairs and mandatory repair upgrades to 2 of the 3. All of them were left unplugged when not in use so it was not a problem of voltage spikes. My LWS told me that they were seeing all kinds of premature board failures on Miller equipment made in the mid 2000's.
My last major purchase was a Lincoln and I couldn't be happier with it.
I still use the Millers, but they sure left a bad impression.
No complaints with mine.
Wow. Thats quite a legacy to bring down.
Quote from: scsmith42 on July 11, 2021, 07:59:59 AM
Quote from: Walnut Beast on July 11, 2021, 03:17:31 AM
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 25, 2021, 09:55:23 PM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/3207CB1F-CC98-49EC-899C-CC622653A023.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1614308084)
Pulse mig on the way
There is something to be said for transformer welders. Not vary happy with this welder! It wasn't welding very good. Lots of trouble with voltage running to high. They said it's probably the good old circuit board that's made in Mexico. It's at a Miller service center now. Really bad customer service!! I experienced it and several sources confirmed over the last year Millers customer service is really really bad. Two phone calls to Miller and left call backs and email and have never heard a word back. Other guys said you must have gotten a lemon because it's supposed to be a really good welder 😂
Between 2003 and 2007 I purchased three new pieces of miller equipment. I had to spend over 5K on board repairs and mandatory repair upgrades to 2 of the 3. All of them were left unplugged when not in use so it was not a problem of voltage spikes. My LWS told me that they were seeing all kinds of premature board failures on Miller equipment made in the mid 2000's.
My last major purchase was a Lincoln and I couldn't be happier with it.
I still use the Millers, but they sure left a bad impression.
I have been told the same thing about the Miller units from a welder friend.
He lost circuit boards as well on high end units
I bought a brand new Hypertherm plasma setup for my cnc table and the mainboard went in less then an hour. Luckily it was under warranty. No problems since the board was replaced. Any brand can have problems. My Miller 210 is about 20 years old and has been a trouble free machine.
Quote from: scsmith42 on July 11, 2021, 07:59:59 AM
Quote from: Walnut Beast on July 11, 2021, 03:17:31 AM
Quote from: Walnut Beast on February 25, 2021, 09:55:23 PM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59695/3207CB1F-CC98-49EC-899C-CC622653A023.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1614308084)
Pulse mig on the way
There is something to be said for transformer welders. Not vary happy with this welder! It wasn't welding very good. Lots of trouble with voltage running to high. They said it's probably the good old circuit board that's made in Mexico. It's at a Miller service center now. Really bad customer service!! I experienced it and several sources confirmed over the last year Millers customer service is really really bad. Two phone calls to Miller and left call backs and email and have never heard a word back. Other guys said you must have gotten a lemon because it's supposed to be a really good welder 😂
Between 2003 and 2007 I purchased three new pieces of miller equipment. I had to spend over 5K on board repairs and mandatory repair upgrades to 2 of the 3. All of them were left unplugged when not in use so it was not a problem of voltage spikes. My LWS told me that they were seeing all kinds of premature board failures on Miller equipment made in the mid 2000's.
My last major purchase was a Lincoln and I couldn't be happier with it.
I still use the Millers, but they sure left a bad impression.
I was looking hard at Lincoln and wished I would have went that way 😂! Miller welder update. The Miller technician at service center said he can't figure out what's wrong with the unit and Miller engineering is supposed to be calling him on it. I said get me another new one! He agreed they need to do that. But here we are still no update. I will never buy another Miller
Another case of too much tech ruining a good brands reputation.
Quote from: mike_belben on July 16, 2021, 10:49:44 PM
Another case of too much tech ruining a good brands reputation.
Well maybe, but I think if somebody did a true root cause analysis on this issue which I have found to be prevalent across all industries I've had contact with over the past couple of decades, the resultant 'culprit' would surprise you. I'll try not to make this too long:
Back a few decades ago equipment manufacturers had design departments that were staffed with Journeymen who had worked their way up in the business from the shop floor. They may or may not have had the education credentials to carry the title of "Engineer" but they dang sure knew what worked, what didn't, and why because in building, testing, and troubleshooting the equipment, they learned everything the hard way. If it didn't work, they knew they had to make it good before it went out. Engineering changes and rework are expensive so there was a lot of effort put into 'getting it right' before they built the first unit. Reliability and repeatability were key to getting a good product out that was also 'buildable'. Many of the good 'engineers' I worked with in the early 70's who were nearing retirement had actually started out as drill press operators, assemblers, lathe hands, etc. and over the decades worked their way up. They knew every aspect of the business because they had done it. (My own career plan was to follow in these footsteps, which I did until I hit the wall.) The same situation was true with shop foremen, plant managers, etc.
In the 90's this took a decided turn and it began with upper management who switched from hiring Mangers from within the business to hiring managers who had the best 'credentials' from good schools. Those folks knew all about the latest stuff, charts, graphs, something called 'spreadsheets', computerization, etc. They could 'talk the talk' really well. Once those folks got in they in turn hired only college educated people for shop managers, engineering managers, etc. Experience and skill no longer mattered much, it was where you got your 'paper' from. Now I am not picking on the folks that work hard to get a good education, however what these folks all lacked was practical experience in making things work. Moreover, many had chips on their shoulders because they "knew" what would work and consequently would not seek or listen to input from experienced folks doing the work for decades. (A huge problem.)
I lived in this world for 25 years before I finally got out. I would sit in design review meetings and look at concept models and point out things that needed to be modified before we built prototypes. I often got laughed at or asked to leave when I tried to point out the weak spots. The 'engineer' would say "We ran the FEA (computer based Finite Element Analysis) on this and it will work perfectly and safely" and I would tell him I didn't care where he stuck his FEA it would not work over the long term and will fail and somebody might get hurt (not to mention our reputation). In this example I was thrown off that project and kept off a few others as punishment for my 'negative attitude'. A year later it was in full production and shipping to aerospace manufacturers all over the world as designed. Within 6 months of the first deliveries, the phones got hot with calls from complaining customers about explosive failures, threats of lawsuits, etc.. We wound up taking all of them back, scrapping about 500 hundred castings in stock, paying for mold modifications (only about 15 grand), rebuilding tools for free with new cylinders, and generally loosing a LOT of money on a product that was very low margin anyway. Oh, and our reputation took a big hit for a long time. WHY? Because some smart ass could not have an open conversation about his design and use his own brain to think it through.
So I have seen a lot of 'early adopters' jumping on technology to make things slicker or cheaper, but I also see that the common sense, testing to failure, and putting real world loads on new designs has gone out the window in favor of speed and profitability.
That particular company BTW has now progressed to the point that they won't even hire a shop floor supervisor without a 4 year degree (ANY degree). These poor kids come in and are working in a manufacturing facility might as well be on Mars it is so foreign to them. Meanwhile a 20 year employee is working away there that could do the job standing on his/her head because they know every nuance of the operation but they don't have the degree.
I believe our manufacturing problems are systemic, not related to new tech, but rather how that tech is applied. It is cultural. We are not 'training up' a proper workforce, we are focused on how the 'numbers' look and nothing else.
Just my 2 cents. Sorry, I didn't keep it short, but I tried.
Oh its a battle of the long winded woods piddlers is it? Fine, yer on! ;D
Me, my dad and my brother put in 70 cumulative years at a very reputable firearm manufacturer and youve just described the same scene that slowly turned it into a miserable us/them place to work.
Hes got 38 years but shes fresh out of toyota lean training, is non white and used to babysit for someone on the board. She becomes team leader then cell coordinator then dept head then shift supervisor then plant supervisor, FUMU'ing the whole way.
It was plant wide. Hes been in every department in the 50acre building but that one knows solidworks and we REALLY like those solidworks prints. One by one the people that really made the business work just leave in disgust and it gets worse every year but somehow makes money on paper while quality slides and slides and slides. The worse a change is for product quality, the bigger the executive board bonuses seem to be for doing it. In my ten years president went from making $400k to around 6million. Many floor jobs in the plant had pay cuts or were slashed to bring in 3rd world unskilled workers who make just a little below the threshold that would eliminate their public housing, ebt etc. So a person not on the dole really cant afford to take the job. The company figured out how to exploit public subsidy.
Anyways we are getting pretty far from welders. Im in total agreement with you. But i have to stand by my statement. i got an avionics background in the marines. I was in the radar altimeter, tactical antenna and identify friend or foe [IFF] repair shop, "Intermediate level avionics tech." Not welders but the same sorta components manipulating the same sorta electrons.
IMO, the success of an electrical machine is reduced linearly as its complexity increases. When youve got a bird parked for a priority one and 7 or 8 trained technicians cursing the thing with the specialized test set and publications and meters strewn all over and no one can go home until its fixed (thats how the military works).. And they just cant figure it out even while pop and swapping cards from a known good unit.. Well. Its officially just too complex in my opinion.
Or the other end. Its easy to figure out what went bad. But that board is proprietary, one supplier has it locked up, its backordered, theres 200 people waiting in line and its $1900 plus labor, no warranty on a $3800 machine.
Thats where wizz bang welders are today. Bells and whistles are a liability that increase obsolescence in everything. Aircraft, autos, equipment etc etc. If you can build it with a PLC instead of a computer, do it. If you can use a switch to a relay instead of a PLC, do it. If a heavy amp toggle switch can replace the relay, do it.
Anything that simplifies a circuit and anything that uses generic shelf stock parts rather than proprietary will be economically fixable until the parts run out and they probably never will.
Washers and driers are a great example. Can fix the same dryer from baby diapers to adult diapers if you want! ;D
Geez Mike, I wasn't trying to use up all my words in one shot. :D I just used what I needed to make my point. You brought in a whole lot of other grievances that I too harbor from affirmative action to nepotism. I have been, or seen others shafted by the same issues. But we were talking about mis-application of untested or poorly understood newer technology.
Yes, I fully agree a LOT of things are over designed these days to give the sales force some new talking points on which to sell product when in reality they are peddling unfixable cheaper junk at higher costs (I am thinking of GM's BIG sales pitch back in the day for 'unibody construction' which I took as a euphemism for 'unrepairable'). Designing for the long haul, high maintainablility, reliable performance seems to be a thing of the past. It always bothered me that my last employer referred to the tools they made and sold for $1,300-1,800 were considered disposable tools (not worth repairing). I can't speak for others, but if I spent $1,500 on a tool, I am not throwing it out and buying another one when the performance drops.
FWIW, I am pretty certain I have been through the plant you referred to back around 2007 or so. Very big place, easy to get lost, nifty technology being used in some areas and 150 year old tech being used in others. I enjoyed the tour, but I could never have worked there. Security made us empty our pockets in boxes before we entered (got it back on the way out) and you could barely bring in a piece of paper, full escort the whole time, and the kicker for me was many employees were locked into fenced working areas and could not get out to take a leak without some kind of special permission. Quality control there seemed to me to be at a very high level. In fact I was there to look at some particular brands of CMM's they were using that we planned on buying.
If it was in springfield, thats the one.
Yup, massive place with underground tunnels connecting the various dungeons buildings. ;D I did enjoy the store and range that was open to the public on the other side of the complex. Been there, got the T-shirt, literally.
Oh were going full derail now. How many pages is it? Eh what the heck some guys will love an insider story about the magical place their pistols came from.
For 28 years, One single person maintained every shooting range in both plants alone, among many many other tasks. Tours show just 2 or 3 but there were a dozen and change total. 18 of those years was my father. Several hires lasted just a few months before they hired me to do it and i did for 10. My father went back to the machine repair side from facilities and finished out 41 or 42 years total.
Anyway, quite a few people shot themselves at the public range, one whom i grew up with actually. I worked alone on 3rd shift about 6 years i guess.. and that building would talk to you. I brought quite a few other employees over for genuine overnight haunted house experiences. Lots of people wouldnt work there. The connector tunnel at the main plant was nothing compared to the ww2 half that the public never saw on the other site.
It looked like a mental facility corridor with tiny metal meshed one way glass lining the hall on each side and you felt continual eyes on you because you couldnt see in, the rooms saw out. The glass went into extremely creepy soundproof pistol rooms shooting into a little window sized door in the opposite wall to reduce the heating envelope. It may have originally been an interrogation center because thats exactly what it felt like. A perfect set to shoot horror film. No props needed. And to creep itnto the max, someone let a highschool art department paint a 3d city grid mural on one wall of an underground corridor with people and city blocks. You always thought they were moving around. A real head game.
Back to the little rooms. Only the shooters end is climate controlled. Beyond that is natural temp. Sometimes these steel plates i wrestled were sweating summer moisture, sometimes they were iced.
Well in that little open shooting window is just black space. You shoot into a black unknowable room behind that.. Beyond the darkness of that black room was a catacomb of sandbanks sort of like in an apocolyptic abandoned parking garage with sand hills walled up between the columns. When shovelling out sand i always figured id dig hoffa up eventually.
That was the old half of the public site, built by the gov to test 50 cals and such. 1inch deflector plates. The building was called "The academy." It was huge and unmanned at night except me if i had to do a repair. This old builing lived in secret behind that nice new store you saw, behind a false wall. There was 300yd long pitch black underground rifle ranges at the far end and the shot up car body and manequins for police training were always good for an eery feel behind you.
Some spots had no lights, cobwebs, building banging and clanging at you.. Hear footsteps but no one around. I worked very close with the guards and they all had stories of zone motion alarms but the camera shows nothing in the hall yet the zones are going off in sequence as if a person walked down it. Every guard and memaintenance worker had a ghost story. You swallowed your fear or bid elsewhere.. The elevator went up and down on its own on one guard. 3 stories. All blacked out when you walk in fishing for the light switch.
So back to range work. that wasnt a fun hole to crawl through into the black abyss of your own fear. I always expected eyes to shine back at me.
There was a common job i dreaded called throatplates. These 1x4 ft steel wings would deflect bullets into the slit leading into a decel chamber of one sort or another to a lead conveyor. Theyd get bowed and id have to pull them down, go back to main plant, press them straighter and get them back up. i had to lay up on this 45* steel plate that i could barely stay on and jam my arm through a steel slit to reach bolts i could only feel. In a haunted house at 2 or 3am alone, where heavy doors open on their own once in a while. There were times i was just waiting for something to grab that arm from the abyss and rip it off. Hairs on my neck stood up quite often.
My final years were on weekend 12s. Fri/sat/sun. Me, my dad and brother (and obviously many of our long time friends) all had an overlap on Sunday. We had "sunday dinner" at lunchtime. It became quite a to-do. We knew where the cameras were, All the buttheads and nobodies were gone and it was just us good guys, sorta the heart and soul of the plant. Guys who didnt say oh not my problem when a disaster happened just before clock out time. If the place was on fire this was the crowd that would be secret unsung heroes on monday when the bigwigs are patting the safety butt hole on the back who put some papers in a binder a few years ago and hasnt worked since.
Anyway i had the company truck and the guards all buttered up. One of has the keys to conference room. Guys would talk all week about what to have this sunday. Dole out chores andnshopoing lists, pass around a scrap of work order with your contribution, crockpot this or that, soda chips whatever. We had huge spreads secretly in a leather chair conference room and the sunday guards only wanted sunday because we always brought out huge plates to them. Immaculate clean up, everything back in its place and none are the wiser until next sunday. It woulda got us all canned by the beancounters but it was the only reason half of them stayed that extra year or 3 when they coulda retired. Comraderie. The only part i miss of that company.
There. It took 7 pages but i brought welders back to food! :D
mike, got any pics of the Sunday food spread???
To not go too far off the rails, I use a nice ol' Miller. It's either a real late 90''s or very early 00's
Ya know.. Ive got 16 THOUSAND pics in this phone and none of that sadly. Dont think theres any in my old one either. Too bad. Lotta good times.
New Miller 255 update. Finally picked it up. The Miller tech replaced the whole circuit board after a month of calling the engineers at Miller and doing various tests 🙄. The Tech said the Miller engineers wanted the bad circuit board back since they have not seen this problem before. The Tech welded with it for 20 minutes and said all was good. So hopefully it is 😂
At the price of bottles and wire I am so glad I am old school. I run a cheap fixed shade helmet. An old DC 250 stick welder. I do probably more welding than to be called a hobby welder. I have so many friends that have wire machines that just sit because it is easier and cheaper to use a buzz box. I spend money on things like cut off saw. Drill press tools of all kinds instead. Just rambling. ::)