I am trying to work smart not hard in my old age so this is what I ordered today for Spring delivery. Has anyone used one yet ? Pros / cons ? For me its not handling brush so much as getting the log up at a comfortable height and bucking it up near the wood splitter. Its 1/3 of the cost of a hydraulic grapple for my JD
Thanks I am interested in your opinions and experiences.
BC-4200 Brush Crusher for small John Deere loaders | Westendorf (https://www.loaders.com/Brush-Crusher/Brush-Crusher/BC-4200-BC-4215)
looks like good engineering. i have a hydraulic grapple, but I may recommend this for my brother who has a JD compact tractor.
I've tried to use the tractor to elevate logs to a comfortable height for cutting firewood but I wasn't happy with the results.I spent too much time on/off the tractor moving back and forth as I cut to maintain balance on the loader arms.For me their was no advantage.
Currently I use a small log deck that is at a comfortable height.I load the logs with the tractor and roll them forward into a sacrificial cutting trough,cut to desired length,roll the rounds off and roll another log into the trough.The deck is set on a slight incline so gravity is my friend.
I seem to continually tweak my system,hope I get it right before I croak.
I probably buck 90 plus percent of my firewood with a skid loader and a grapple. That being said we always have two people one runs the skid loader and one runs the saw. Works great. If I was bucking by myself I would build a bucking table load the logs on there and saw away and have one big enough to hold the rounds and have the splitter next to the bucking table. I did see the one you are looking at a farm show this winter. I think on a compact it would be ok but I think you would sure miss not having a cylinder to clamp the jaws. Normally Westendorf builds pretty good equipment.
Looks lit it woyld workm nice for that. It's built about 30 miles from here, I'd like to see one up close, should be doable...
Like the looks of this grapple-I have the frostbite on my JD,but am looking for small grapple for my Kubota...
Only way to buck logs....
I sure like the looks of that for cleaning up tree tops and brush. Would work very well on my CUT without the hassle (and expense) of adding a third hydraulic function. Great idea. Will stick with the old stuff for the heavy work.
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After looking around some more I put the purchase on hold. I called Westendorf and asked for numbers of people who have actually purchased it and are using it. I am re looking at a root grapple Frontier my dealer has as well.
If you do end up getting it I would be very interested in an in depth report. I have been eyeing them for many years. Just have not been able to push myself over the buy it now hump.
gasman1075,
Have you looked at artillian.com for hydraulic grapples? Then resolve the third hydraulic function problem most of us run into unless you have a very new well engineered tractor. The tractorbynet site has lots of info on grapples of various sizes and operator experience.
Should have said TractorByNet site. Wow the modify button works great, very few sites can do that.
I like it and think it would be very useful for many things besides blocking logs. I may look into one myself. I am currently waiting on delivery of a new Westendorf loader for my NH T1520. For a small tractor handling firewood logs I would be tempted to opt for a 3-pt hitch attachment on the rear for the increased lift capacity and reduced wear on the tractor front end.
Looks interesting. Price?
Well after much hemming and hawing I ordered the mechanical grapple. I did look at Artillian and add the 3rd function but this would be much less and less work. The clincher was Josh Westendorf ( the founders great grandson ) called me himself and although no one around my next of the woods has one yet I will be the first. He was very confident that I would be happy with it for what I want to do. It arrives in 10-14 days. I ordered it from my local JD dealer and delivered to them its about $1225. And since we aren't getting any snow or winter it seems like I might as well take my snowblower off and put the FEL back on and start bucking firewood. My neighbor just had a triple bypass so we can use it down at his place as well. I will document and report back
Thanks for your help. Don't tell the boss. Its painted green so it may not get noticed.
Better get it dirty ASAP!
Gasman1075 Keep us posted on how the new toy works out.
I'm very strongly considering one also and have been communication with them also. Some hands on reviews would be wonderful. The larger size to fit my JD 5410 will also fit the JD 3032 with the addition of two buttons in already existing holes so it can be used on both tractors. That's a big plus to me.
I do not have it yet but hopefully Saturday or early next week. I will try and document as much as possible. Its just me here so I am not sure how to take pictures of it in operation.
This mechanical grapple looks ok...........but, very light. If you are going to do anything that resembles heavy work. NO> I had an experience with Westendorf Company a few years ago. I bought one of their loader buckets at the National Farm Machinery Show in KY. The prongs on the loader broke loading manure and bales. When I questioned them at the show the next year. Mr. Westendorf 3 told me "you farmers abuse equipment". I found out the steel they were using would not stand up to "farm use". You will get what you pay for!
Check this out. I have the grapples attached to regular bucket, but am looking at the rock bucket with the grapple.
https://shoule.com.au/assets/files/SHoule%20Catalogue.pdf
this company makes the best. Not inexpensive, but you will NOT break it. They will be at the National Farm Machinery Show in Louisville, Ky. Feb 12-15. That is my experience and I bought both.
They also offer a heavier duty unit LINK (https://www.loaders.com/Brush-Crusher/Brush-Crusher) which is probably what LeeB was referring to.
They only list skid steer attachment but I have bushhog attachment.
The BC-4255 is the larger unit. I think they configure it for different tractor attachments.
Quote from: 1countryboy on February 07, 2020, 09:34:51 PM
This mechanical grapple looks ok...........but, very light. If you are going to do anything that resembles heavy work. NO> I had an experience with Westendorf Company a few years ago. I bought one of their loader buckets at the National Farm Machinery Show in KY. The prongs on the loader broke loading manure and bales. When I questioned them at the show the next year. Mr. Westendorf 3 told me "you farmers abuse equipment". I found out the steel they were using would not stand up to "farm use". You will get what you pay for!
Check this out. I have the grapples attached to regular bucket, but am looking at the rock bucket with the grapple.
https://shoule.com.au/assets/files/SHoule%20Catalogue.pdf
this company makes the best. Not inexpensive, but you will NOT break it. They will be at the National Farm Machinery Show in Louisville, Ky. Feb 12-15. That is my experience and I bought both.
The "very light" is exactly the feature that makes it especially useful for the size tractor its intended for. No extra hydraulic circuits needed and the light weight leaves some of the limited lifting capacity of a compact tractor available for the item being lifted.
I agree with you. Light! just remember those "light" utility tractors and do not exceed the capacity. You and I both know we push the limits. :D :D. Then bad things happen FAST>
I know i am a bit late in responding. I bought one a few years ago for my Century/ Branson. Do not let the "light" weight fool you. These are tough units. They are incredible for moving bus brush and picking up logs for sawing. As you become more comfortable with their use you will be surprised at the things you can do. A friend and I were chipping a bunch of saplings 2-6" in diameter and 20+ feet long. I could pick the entire tree up with the grapple and position it so the chipper could grab it. Saved a lot of saw work and manual lifting.
To be honest there is one downside in my view, they are a pain to put on as the quick attachment frame on the loader has to be removed.. It is not a hard job but takes about 30 to 45 minutes to install. So I try to plan my work when I can leave the grapples on for a while. W. Jones
I have an old John Deere I bought used 40 plus years ago, and thought it was old. Mine had it's 50th birthday last year. But Wood Shed has me beat, I never could get the clutch to catch hold on my Dad's old G.
I am strongly considering this, LINK (http://www.greens-machine.com/catalog/i2.html) to fit on my pallet forks.
Quote from: W5E2J on February 25, 2020, 08:26:17 AM
I know i am a bit late in responding. I bought one a few years ago for my Century/ Branson. Do not let the "light" weight fool you. These are tough units. They are incredible for moving bus brush and picking up logs for sawing. As you become more comfortable with their use you will be surprised at the things you can do. A friend and I were chipping a bunch of saplings 2-6" in diameter and 20+ feet long. I could pick the entire tree up with the grapple and position it so the chipper could grab it. Saved a lot of saw work and manual lifting.
To be honest there is one downside in my view, they are a pain to put on as the quick attachment frame on the loader has to be removed.. It is not a hard job but takes about 30 to 45 minutes to install. So I try to plan my work when I can leave the grapples on for a while. W. Jones
I wasn't paying attention to how it attaches. Removing the q-tach plate would take some of the joy out of it.
The picture they sent me looks like it will attach directly to my quick attach.
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Quote from: LeeB on March 02, 2020, 07:39:55 AM
The picture they sent me looks like it will attach directly to my quick attach.
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That would put the fun back into it!!
Quote from: Magicman on March 01, 2020, 09:28:50 PM
I am strongly considering this, LINK (http://www.greens-machine.com/catalog/i2.html) to fit on my pallet forks.
That's a handy deal as well, especially if you already have the plumbing for a 3rd circuit. Grapples work great for logs and slabs, but forks all the way for handling lumber. Forks w/grapple is the perfect choice for sawmill chores. Firewood, fencerows etc. I would lean back to the brush grapple but then I want to have cake and eat it too lol.
No need for 3rd circuit because I would never have a use for the rear when the grapple is in use. I'll plumb long hoses, install disconnects on the front, and then use the rear control to open and close the grapple.
My only use for the rear is two days disking in the Fall.
Quote from: gasman1075 on January 28, 2020, 08:54:56 AM
Well after much hemming and hawing I ordered the mechanical grapple. I did look at Artillian and add the 3rd function but this would be much less and less work. The clincher was Josh Westendorf ( the founders great grandson ) called me himself and although no one around my next of the woods has one yet I will be the first. He was very confident that I would be happy with it for what I want to do. It arrives in 10-14 days. I ordered it from my local JD dealer and delivered to them its about $1225. And since we aren't getting any snow or winter it seems like I might as well take my snowblower off and put the FEL back on and start bucking firewood. My neighbor just had a triple bypass so we can use it down at his place as well. I will document and report back
Thanks for your help. Don't tell the boss. Its painted green so it may not get noticed.
@gasman1075 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=34196) How did the mechanical grapple work out?
I can't answer for gasman. but the one I bought is ok. I wish I had gone with the hydraulic grapple instead. It takes a little getting used to. I have to be careful not to over clamp and bend my quick attach pin receptacles. I've had to straight and reweld them a couple of times already. I've given thought to adding a middle blade/finger to be able to better grab shorter stuff. It's marketed as a brush grabber but it won't get a very big bite. I haven't had much luck using it to rake up and then grab a load with it. Pretty much have to make a pile and then grab it. I use it for grabbing logs occasionally. Doesn't work well at all for slabs, or not for me anyway.
Quote from: LeeB on February 19, 2022, 03:45:46 PM
I can't answer for gasman. but the one I bought is ok. I wish I had gone with the hydraulic grapple instead. It takes a little getting used to. I have to be careful not to over clamp and bend my quick attach pin receptacles. I've had to straight and reweld them a couple of times already. I've given thought to adding a middle blade/finger to be able to better grab shorter stuff. It's marketed as a brush grabber but it won't get a very big bite. I haven't had much luck using it to rake up and then grab a load with it. Pretty much have to make a pile and then grab it. I use it for grabbing logs occasionally. Doesn't work well at all for slabs, or not for me anyway.
@LeeB (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=46) Did you get the 4300 skid steer version or the Johnn Deere version?
I got the JD version and had them put an extra set of pins at the bottom so it would fit both my 5410 and Lindy's 3032.
My opinion, 4x4 tractor / loader, bucket off , forks on. Don't want to bend over? Deck it on other logs. You can do alot with the forks when you get used to them. A grapple on the back for when you have to skid.
Mine did not work very well at all. They did stand behind it and refund the $$ but it bent or welds broke pretty much every time I used it. I was using it in the field just moving logs from the pile so I wouldn't have to buck up on the ground. I understand they made some modifications to the newer models. Perhaps mine was made on a Friday ?
I just use the pallet forks to pick the log/tree trunk up to waist height.
some are 30- 40 ft long.
Diameters at the large end range from 6" to 16", once in a while a much larger short piece.
2 of us working, me on the tractor my son on the ground.
He starts marking the log from the left end, I get off of the tractor and take the crayon and marking stick from him and finish marking then we saw from either end until it is all bucked.
The reason we mark the length is that we both burn 22 to 23" pieces and the splitter is exactly 24" throw
It is a lot of off and on the tractor, but it is good additional exercise.
On the shorter pieces I stay on the tractor while he marks and cuts.
The last piece or 2 is in between the forks so it is rolled out far enough to cut it
How do you handle this if the grapple is engaged?
Seems to me you have to open the grapple, is this the case?
when I use my grapple, I grab a shorter log (under 8 feet or so) by the end and stick it in front, and I cut up to the grapple. I split at 16 inches so i can put wood in my stove front to back. it will take 24 inch wood side to side.
I am stubborn so I bought one despite the not so good reviews here, which I do appreciate and did factor into my evaluation. They made several different models of the Brush Crusher and the BC 4300 skid-steer version is the one that fits my loader. I had a heavy duty hydraulic grapple on my Cat 289D, which did all you could ever expect a grapple to do. It had two issues. One is taking it on and off you had to fight the hoses; and often you had to relieve pressure in one of the lines to reconnect. I also replaced the short terminal hoses multiple times for getting pinched and or breaking the fittings. The hoses and cylinders are in the combat zone. The other is the thing empty weighed right at the limit of what a 35hp tractor can lift. So, if you want a heavy-duty hydraulic grapple you need a platform other than a compact tractor.
Forks are ideal for lumber, and pretty darn good for logs. Problem is crooked branches, forks, and chunks aren't "logs" and tend to have the highest use as firewood. Fishing firewood logs off a fender trailer, picking up chunks that fit between the forks etc. is grapple work. This unit is a compromise and really costs about what it would it take to retrofit a 3rd function in the front. When you compare total cost of plumbing and purchase price the manual grapple is less than half the cost and 3-5x the lifting capacity. Downside is it will be lighter duty and more awkward to use
If it ever quits raining; I will relate my experience with it.
Westendorf BC4300 SSQA mounted on a NH T1520.
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I wouldn't be with out my hyd grapple. I have the ROBO grapple made by circle 3 welding in Langford Kansas. I have the eight foot model. Its heavy but very well built. This guy has been building tree saws, tree shears and grapples for twenty years and has it figured out were the weak spots are and what needs protected. I have had this one ten years and its been used a lot and hard. Clearing pastures is hard on equipment. We buck all our wood using a grapple. We haven't buck wood on the ground since buying a grapple. Yes hooking the hoses up can be a pain. I have another set of ends with a piece of pipe and a cap on the end to catch the oil and I plug them into the grapple when I unhook it. When I am cleaning up the pasture I may switch between the grapple and tree saw a dozen times a day. With the grapple setting in the sun it builds a little pressure so I plug the dummy ends in the hoses. Tree saw motor doesn't build pressure so no need to plug the ends into it.
A stump bucket grapple should not be discounted by anyone with aux plumbing on a lighter duty tractor. Its smaller and therefore lighter while being made from heavy plate.
I sketch and build and rebuild and anyalyze and resketch a continuaal development of attachments.. I actually thought i was gonna be an attachment manufacturer when i moved my equipment to TN and got it under one roof but the covid scene has changed the world.
Anyways.. im telling you, i could not design a full width brush style of grapple capable of grabbing a log all the ways a stump bucket grapple can. The only thing the stump bucket is not really good at is being a root rake. But a root rake thumb is easy to make and put on your regular blade or bucket if you need that so badly.
For anything logs that isnt dangling from a knuckle boom, i will take a stump bucket hydraulic grapple and build it out custom for each persons use.
Had it been just for use on my tractor I would have gone with a hydraulic grapple of some kind. My tractor is already plumbed, but Lindy's little 30 horse would have had to have another valve added. Truth be told though, I may as well have gone with the hydraulic because she has never used the emechanical one on her tractor.
Quote from: LeeB on February 24, 2022, 02:49:21 PM
Had it been just for use on my tractor I would have gone with a hydraulic grapple of some kind. My tractor is already plumbed, but Lindy's little 30 horse would have had to have another valve added. Truth be told though, I may as well have gone with the hydraulic because she has never used the emechanical one on her tractor.
I see you have a 5410 on your signature line. No question I would go hydraulic with anything 50HP and up. 25-35hp compact tractors are a whole different class of machine.
Well I got a mechanical grapple from Westendorf earlier this year (2022). It is what is considered the BC-4215 but I don't think it says that on the frame decal, think it says BC-4200. It is my understanding that the addition of upper and lower teeth makes the difference. Price was right at $2375 and a nearby John Deere dealer had it in stock. Sure I would like a hydraulic grapple but the whole point is that my newest tractor does not have any third function, just hydraulics similar to my 1950 era antiques (that is really sad), but it is what it is and that third function wasn't even an option in 2006 (so disappointing). Takes some getting used to and a little finesse but at least I have not broke or bent anything yet as long as you don't count having dug into my dog fence wire twice.
It will be a good addition to my collection of woods tools.
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Mounting and dismounting this grapple as well as the loader bucket is a snap with John Deeres quick tach system, couldn't be easier.
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I have been looking at those for a very long time. One day I may either buy one or build one. But I do have auxiliary hydraulics so I may just make a hydraulic one. My biggest complaint with all the grapples on the market is their weight. Only having an L2800 kubota a bucket that weights 1000 pounds takes up most of my lift capacity.
I build several models that start out at 48" and weigh just 196# up to 60" full lid which weighs in at 259#
atlasgrapples.com
I'm not really trying to hawk my wares but just showing it can be done.
These are hydraulic, 3/8" steel, 3/16 wall tube and schedule 80 structural pipe.
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Very nice work dave_dj1.
I bought a Westendorf BC4200 back in the spring. I only used it briefly as I am way ahead on firewood and have been building fence all summer but that is about to change. The Westendorf will take a little getting used as I loaded a world of firewood with a hydraulic one on my skid steer and find myself still reaching for the thumbwheel to close. The mechanical operates by tilting the grapple all the way down and dropping over and lifting rather than gathering. It works pretty well but it will take a while to unlearn the gathering thing.
For picking up brush or logs the mechanical is fine. For a task like loading split firewood from a pile it wouldn't work. If you have or can reasonably add hydraulic that's the way to go.
The weight of the Brush Crusher is less than my pallet forks or bucket so I get a slight gain in capacity for logs. I tried a set of aluminum bucket forks. Don't go that route :D