Hi guys, i have a champion sawmill, it's small and manual. like a woodmizer lt15 maybe. it has a 600cc honda twin engine with 20hp.
can i convert the mill to electric? i'm stationary in the shop, just single phase available. what motor would i need? whats the ratio for the band speed? electric engines turn faster than gasonline.
A 10 hp electric motor would be a little under powered compared to your 20 hp gas engine. 15 Hp electric would be a little stronger than what you have now.
A single phase motor this size will be expensive and require a heavier service than typical for a house, you could have trouble starting the motor. Even if starting is not a problem for the power supply, you don't want to be starting it very often because there is a lot of heat generated in a motor during starting.
Electric motors are available 1800 rpm or 3600 rpm (those are nominal numbers, will be a little slower when fully loaded). 3600 rpm motors are usually less expensive if other things are equal.
If you can work out the details, it will be less noisy and less maintenance.
In many areas 3 phase power off the pole is either too expensive or not available. Also the highly recommended 480V is not there but 208 may be. You have to call the power co. A 3phase gen set is the normal way to go. A little much for one little sawmill but if you have or are adding more machines it is the way to go.
Around here, they'll run 3-phase up to 400 feet from any existing 3 phase tranny.
In case that's not an option, here's a 16 HP 1phase 220v motor that will cost you 2 arms and a leg:
http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/BALDOR-GDL1615T/ (http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/BALDOR-GDL1615T/)
Sell a foot and get the start controller:
http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/STECX95/ (http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/STECX95/)
This is a subject that has 10 thousand opinions and everybody claims to be correct .First it's an electric motor not an electric engine .There is a method which is very simple to use a three phase motor as a rotary phase converter to effectively generate 3 phase from single phase .Used three phase motors usually are very inexpensive,single phase are like the national dept .
A properly built converter works on about 92 percent efficiency .It's only job is to generate the third phase not perform any mechanical work .So as such it doesn't draw anything even close to full load power .
It's been said a 10 HP electric motor should equate to about 20 HP gasoline but where that's stated I didn't bother to research .This I will say when I was a teenager a local hard wood mill replaced an Allis Chalmers gasoline power unit which was right at 100 HP with a 50 HP three phase motor .It would always start,didn't require much maintenance and operated for pennies compared to that big gasoline engine .Lawdy that thing would blow your ear drums out ripping a big oak log .
Quote from: Al_Smith on February 19, 2020, 08:15:45 PM
This is a subject that has 10 thousand opinions and everybody claims to be correct .First it's an electric motor not an electric engine .There is a method which is very simple to use a three phase motor as a rotary phase converter to effectively generate 3 phase from single phase .Used three phase motors usually are very inexpensive,single phase are like the national dept .
A properly built converter works on about 92 percent efficiency .It's only job is to generate the third phase not perform any mechanical work .So as such it doesn't draw anything even close to full load power .
It's been said a 10 HP electric motor should equate to about 20 HP gasoline but where that's stated I didn't bother to research .This I will say when I was a teenager a local hard wood mill replaced an Allis Chalmers gasoline power unit which was right at 100 HP with a 50 HP three phase motor .It would always start,didn't require much maintenance and operated for pennies compared to that big gasoline engine .Lawdy that thing would blow your ear drums out ripping a big oak log .
Yes, very true, been there and done that. A rotary phase converter can be used, but deals can be found on gen sets like never before and then you can do so much more.
One thing that will bite you converting to electric power..Big electric motors are HEAVY. On a bandmill, the head lift mechanics will have to be beefed up considerably. Bigger motor, heavier gearbox, which leads to beefed up electrical system, or you can go with counterweights..
Wood-Mizer has a 10 HP single phase motor or a 10 HP 3 phase motor as an option for their LT15 sawmill. So based on that fact, you should be able to use a 10 HP electric motor on your sawmill.
I'm not going to argue with them but I do know how electric motors work in relationship to internal combustion engines .If not so modern factories would still be using line shafts like in the 1890's .They don't by the way.. :D
s
I have a 10 hp single phase electric LT15. Wouldn't change it out for any internal combustion engine. I cut 27" cants without any major issues. I may go a bit slower on the wide wood but I am not running for production so it doesn't bother me in the least. Keep in mind that electric is a whole different torque story than internal combustion. Starts every time, no maintenance, no down time and much less noise. I have more engines on trucks, tractors, splitters,and bunches of other equipment than I want to deal with. I will always jump at any chance to move to trouble free electric if practical.
I am at a point where my body screams for hydraulics but I do not want to move away from electric. I am looking at components and shopping for a welder and hydraulic mechanic to help me build out an electric mill chassis.
Started with an 18 hp Briggs on my homemade. When that blew up I put an old 7.5 horse Wagner on it. I slowed the blade a little and it worked ok. That motor stopped working and I threw a more modern 5 hp on it. A little slower but I don't push it too hard and it works for me. In my opinion don't get hung up on blade speed and a smaller electric motor will work.
Quote from: Kindlinmaker on February 20, 2020, 12:20:13 AM
I have a 10 hp single phase electric LT15. Wouldn't change it out for any internal combustion engine. I cut 27" cants without any major issues. I may go a bit slower on the wide wood but I am not running for production so it doesn't bother me in the least. Keep in mind that electric is a whole different torque story than internal combustion. Starts every time, no maintenance, no down time and much less noise. I have more engines on trucks, tractors, splitters,and bunches of other equipment than I want to deal with. I will always jump at any chance to move to trouble free electric if practical.
I am at a point where my body screams for hydraulics but I do not want to move away from electric. I am looking at components and shopping for a welder and hydraulic mechanic to help me build out an electric mill chassis.
I agree, can't wait for the tesla cybertruck to get here so I can get rid of one infernal engine.
Quote from: Kindlinmaker on February 20, 2020, 12:20:13 AM
I have a 10 hp single phase electric LT15. Wouldn't change it out for any internal combustion engine. I cut 27" cants without any major issues. I may go a bit slower on the wide wood but I am not running for production so it doesn't bother me in the least. Keep in mind that electric is a whole different torque story than internal combustion. Starts every time, no maintenance, no down time and much less noise. I have more engines on trucks, tractors, splitters,and bunches of other equipment than I want to deal with. I will always jump at any chance to move to trouble free electric if practical.
I am at a point where my body screams for hydraulics but I do not want to move away from electric. I am looking at components and shopping for a welder and hydraulic mechanic to help me build out an electric mill chassis.
Thanks for all the good info guys.
I don't saw really big wood, just teak to max. 18" diam. i don't care if its not full speed production. i think a 7.5-10hp single phase would be the way to go.
i could use the old clutch the gasoline engine uses so the starting torque of band movement gets softened.
some concerns for the electrics because i'm not that good with them. the electric motor will stop and start alot, every cut, is that a problem? will it over heat? will it draw too much electricity? is a 7.5hp motor heavier than a 600cc twin cylinder gas engine?
An electric motor in single phase larger than 5 hp pulls a lot of amps to start. And if it was to start and stop for each board, the electric service would need to be larger than what most people have. Does Woodmizer use a clutch on their electric model?
If it were 1930 perhaps the electrical services would be too small .However I seriously doubt that would be the case now .Not all but most would have 200 amp services which is plenty large enough to start a 5 hp single phase .
Here's an example : In my shop I have a 5 HP converter which provides both 240 and 480 volt 3 phase power .This includes a 3 HP lathe,3 HP drill press and 1/2 HP Bridgeport milling machine .I can start all of them at the same time from a 40 amp circuit .The shop does have a 200 amp service . I also have a 5 HP large drill press with a single phase motor,converted line shaft machine ,circa 1910-20 .That motor draws more than the three phase stuff and it's on a 50 amp breaker .-----more next
Now then let me explain things knowing full well many won't be able to follow what I'm about to get into .When I build a converter I go to extremes and use much larger starting capacitors than are necessary .My 5 HP unit has a 1500 micro farad starting cap .That is how it can start a combined HP of 11.5 at the same time .Actually to be honest it was only by accident I found out it would because I usually fire up the rotary first then the individual machines .
Let me further say I'm only expressing options as I see them .However keep in mind I spent 4 years in the US navy submarine service as a tech .followed by another 46 years as an industrial electrician .I retired almost a year and half ago having been in the work force until I was over 70 years old .
So what I'm saying isn't something I found on You Tube ,I've lived it and have done it . ;)
It is not a good plan to start and stop single phase motors often. Single phase motors use electrolytic capacitors for starting, they are only good for so many starts an hour. Each start produces heat. Also remember when a motor starts, it pulls 4 to 8 times the running amperage. (heat)So figure out a way to let that puppy continue running. Your caps will thank you. Muggs
Thanks for saying that Muggs. For years I ran a 5hp compressor off a 50 amp breaker. Went through a few motors. I think every light for miles around was blinking in time with the pistons. If you get on 3 phase all this calms down but you do what you have to do.
Most compressors have unloader valves that are open on the start up .If they fail it puts undue loading on the single phase motor start up which will eventually burn out the start windings .With a three phase motor you don't have that problem ,no start winding on a normal installation .
Now certain things like Y start/delta run,part winding start etc are only used in certain applications and certainly not on a small band sawmill .
I would say if for example people using a Woodmizer with a three phase motor had experienced any problem with them Woodmizer would have addressed that problem a long time ago . Three phase IMO is far better than single if you can buy it or for that make your own with a rotary .
Yea compressors are particularly hard on single phase motors because of the automatic switch constantly starting and stopping. If you burn out the caps, You should consider replacing them with higher voltage caps. they can take more abuse. That being said, my compressor has been working for over 40 years, no problems.
I've got a compressor I threw together from parts ,two stage set at 150 PSI high end dumping into two 60 gallon tanks .It's 5 HP single using a timer and a solenoid for an unloader valve .With 120 gallon of air it will raise my car lift about 3 or 4 times before it restarts .I think I have the restart at 125 PSI .The inground lift is a 13.5 inch cylinder and will lift a pick up truck on about 60 PSI .
Usually if I'm not using the lift and just air tools I valve off the second tank .150 PSI will really turn an impact wrench into a power house .My home compressor is only set at 100 PSI and is not nearly as effective .If I use it for something like spray painting I tee in another tank to keep it from short cycling and thus over heating .In over 35 years so far I haven't burned it up .
Yea a bigger air storage is another good idea, to keep it from cycling so often.
Quote from: teakwood on February 20, 2020, 07:33:25 AM
Thanks for all the good info guys.
I don't saw really big wood, just teak to max. 18" diam. i don't care if its not full speed production. i think a 7.5-10hp single phase would be the way to go.
i could use the old clutch the gasoline engine uses so the starting torque of band movement gets softened.
some concerns for the electrics because i'm not that good with them. the electric motor will stop and start alot, every cut, is that a problem? will it over heat? will it draw too much electricity? is a 7.5hp motor heavier than a 600cc twin cylinder gas engine?
The LT15 electric has a clutch just like an engined mill. I probably don't use it enough and overuse the switch. I'll be rethinking that a bit based on some of the great information being shared here.
I am no electronics wizard so I don't pretend to understand all of the electronics in the fairly substantial control box attached to the mill but there are a fair amount of components inside. I can tell you that I run the saw off a 50 amp circuit in my house panel with about 60' of heavy stranded line. If I remember correctly, it is about 40' of 6 ga. to a fused switch box by the mill and 20' of 8 ga. running to the motor. The house has 200 amp service. The lights may dim a split second when I turn the saw on but all normal house activities are uninterrupted when the saw is in use. I have several 5 hp and 7.5 hp machines in my basement woodshop which seem to have a similar or greater impact to the overall house on start-up. The LT15 might have a soft start built into the system; I checked the amp draw with a clamp on tester when we first assembled the mill and it only spiked to about 46 amps on star-up; dropped back to around 40 when sawing. It might might have more spike for an instant that didn't register on the meter but we have never tripped the 50 amp house breaker nor the slow burn fuses in the switch box by the mill.
The compressor on my 5 HP geo-thermal will dim the lights .It's on a 40 amp breaker .Fact I've got a 4 HP direct drive 12" table saw that will also dim the lights a tad bit but the incandescent bulbs are nearly all changed to LED's so I don't see it as often as I used to .That's all single phase stuff
My shop which is not where my home is has 15 8 foot high out put florescent and three low pressure sodium 400 watt fixtures and they won't fade on a start up .What few single phase stuff I have doesn't affect any thing and the three phase stuff fires right up running on a rotary .I have not had one problem with it .Fact as I type and when I get the time I'm throwing together a 10 HP air compressor on a 120 gallon tank .That one is large enough I could sand blast with it .That will take a larger converter but not to worry I have a 15 HP motor that will do nicely for that . I've also got a nice three phase transformer to jack it up to 480 volts . Not to mention I have an American "hole wizard " radial drill press that is all straight 480 volts that will require a larger converter than the 5 HP I'm running on now .
all good info thanks.
how can i regulate the rpms on a electric motor. is there like an idle where the engine turns but my clutch would disengage the blade and when i rev up it will start the blade and be ready to cut. how are the rpms for that, idle? and full rpm?
what idle does a 2 cycle engine has? idle and full throttle? how do they compare to a electric engine.
i have a 5hp planer and a 5hp sander both single phase which i could easily remove to make a trial run before i get into spending $
I really don't see a reason where my planer motor which removes more than 5mm on a 6" board per pass should not be able to saw a 1mm kerf thru a 12-14" wide log
Electric motor speed is fixed by the frequency of the power coming in to the motor.
I agree that a 5 hp motor is adequate for cutting 14" diameter logs.
Oh a 5 hp motor will do it, just very slowly.
Quote from: Den-Den on February 21, 2020, 07:35:11 PM
Electric motor speed is fixed by the frequency of the power coming in to the motor.
I agree that a 5 hp motor is adequate for cutting 14" diameter logs.
Then you are talking about a VFD which would cost more than the motor .Plus you about need a "servo duty " motor else all the smoke will leak out and it will never run again .
This subject is almost as hot as the chainsaw oil mix fracas. Believe old Al he knows his stuff, its rumored he invented electric motors. I have a 15 hp Baldor three phase on my homebuilt band mill it has scads of power and never gets more than warm to the touch. It drives the mill and hydraulic pump. Its probably cheaper to build a rotary converter and go three phase. Google it there is much info on building one. A 10 hp single phase motor will turn the trick especially if parasitic loads like sawdust blowers and hydraulic pumps are run with different motors. Have a clutch so you can start no load be it a rocking motor or belt idler. I have run my shop for 40 years with a three phase rotary it works well and is old technology. Frank C.
:D I didn't invent electric motors .However my great grandfather worked for Thomas Edison .Matter of fact old grandpappy actually invented the rotary concrete kiln that burned powdered coal although old Tom took credit for it .In my garage I have a chest of machinists tools and in that chest are some of the tools grand pa Fred brought with him 120 years ago this month when he took the boat ride over from England plus my dads journeyman card .I'm the fourth generation to own those tools .
I researched a little bit.
Would this VFD work with a 5hp 3phase motor?
https://www.amazon.com/HY-HUANYANG-Variable-Frequency-Converter/dp/B07HDYX25C/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=vfd+for+single+phase+motor+5hp&qid=1582374697&sr=8-2 (https://www.amazon.com/HY-HUANYANG-Variable-Frequency-Converter/dp/B07HDYX25C/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=vfd+for+single+phase+motor+5hp&qid=1582374697&sr=8-2)
of course i could go a little bit bigger, like 7.5hp, but i'm asking for the principals. would i need something else? 200$ isn't to much IMO
i can not find VFDs with single phase output, is there such a thing?
Quote from: Al_Smith on February 22, 2020, 06:45:49 AM
:D I didn't invent electric motors .However my great grandfather worked for Thomas Edison .Matter of fact old grandpappy actually invented the rotary concrete kiln that burned powdered coal although old Tom took credit for it .In my garage I have a chest of machinists tools and in that chest are some of the tools grand pa Fred brought with him 120 years ago this month when he took the boat ride over from England plus my dads journeyman card .I'm the fourth generation to own those tools .
Old Tom took credit for everything his men produced. They worked 12 or more hours a day, 6 days a week. I am not a big fan of how they teach about him in the school systems which translates into general public knowledge over time. Tesla was somewhat 'different' and a pretty darn smart guy. ;D I know feathers get ruffled when I mention what my opinion of Mr. Edison is, so I will leave it at that and go no further.
My own Grandfather did some side work for Tesla when he was building his Shoreham experiment (I forget the name). Grandpop had met him when they were on lunch breaks in NYC, his lab was around the corner from my Grandfather's job as a steam engineer and dynamo operator supplying power to those big tall buildings in the city.
But I digress, now back to phase converters (and thank you Mr. Tesla for the wonders of AC).
Rather than revisit little known history ,which is interesting I'll just move along .
Now a funny thing I never understood is the misunderstanding of electrical power usage and the costs involved .For reason unknown to me some people think they can use internal combustion engines more economically than electrical power .Nothing could be further from the truth except perhaps insisting the world is flat or the moon is made of green cheese .
If it were true modern manufacturing would still operate with line shafts driven by steam engines or perhaps diesels .Well it's not the case .
Okay ,rotary converters work and work well .Then comes the conversation of erroneously labeled "solid state" converters .
In effect all they are is a starting circuit exactly like used on a rotary converter and only produce 58 percent of the usable power of a true three phase .
The draw back of this type option is the starting torque is much lower than true three phase and they should not be started frequently because of over heating .About no more than 3-4 times an hour or so .
Now I have hooked them up,trouble shot them and they do work but I don't recommend them .If you're going to go with a converter either buy a good one or build a good one and be done with it once and for all .
On the VFD thing to be quite honest I've never worked on a small unit as they have all been large and rather high priced items used in the automotive industry .Obviously all three phase units ,480 volt input .If I'm not mistaken they were used in conjunction with 25 HP motors .Those were about 25 grand a pop . :o
On a band mill I'd think it would simple enough just to size the drive belt sizes to set the speed .On the horizontal metal saws ,like "do-all "we had at work the band speed could be changed by shifting the drive belt from one size multiple pulley to another . Fact I've got an old Walker -Turner drill press circa 1936 that uses the same thing .That thing,old as it is with a 3 HP motor in place of an original probably 1/2 HP will break a 1/2" drill bit like a match stick if it gets away from you .It's got a vise and I use it .
My experience with an electric AC motor was using it to stop, start, reverse a gear box for lt15 bandmill which I automated. I ran into it shutting down by heat switches after about 30 cycles. I found a DC motor with AC converter and switched over. I however realized after that I really didn't need to reverse the head as I just need to catch a ride forward, disengage and pull back by hand or ride, stop then pull back, it was faster pulling back than waiting for the same speed back. The lt15 has a perfect place through the lower arm which a chain can run. I just rigged a bicycle gear to catch the ride on, then stop and lift it by a handle and rod to pull head back. With the DC it is easier to control speed. I think it is a Dayton with the built on converter. Mill is stationary with pole power to it.
Quote from: Al_Smith on February 22, 2020, 08:33:19 AM
Rather than revisit little known history ,which is interesting I'll just move along .
Now a funny thing I never understood is the misunderstanding of electrical power usage and the costs involved .For reason unknown to me some people think they can use internal combustion engines more economically than electrical power .Nothing could be further from the truth except perhaps insisting the world is flat or the moon is made of green cheese .
If it were true modern manufacturing would still operate with line shafts driven by steam engines or perhaps diesels .Well it's not the case .
Do I understand what you are saying here? Running a sawmill with an engine is cheaper than electric.The only reason I went to electric was for the convenience. I was running 3 engines and that got old. Buying power was way to expensive so I put in a 175 kw diesel to start a 75hp, 25hp, 5hp and room for more. Sawing belted to a diesel is more efficient.
Moodnacreek, I agree with Al, electric should be much cheaper than an IC engine. But you are running your own generator. That is a whole different animal. I am assuming Al is talking about buying power from the power Co.
Try as you might you cannot make electrical power as cheaply as you can purchase it .The Amish that have the elders permission can generate it but it's a money loosing deal .Further more you can't dump fuel in an engine,gas or diesel and get the same cost saving .Now if you lived in the bush in Idaho or something in the middle of no where you might not have a choice .Most of us do .Unless you are a a "prepper " like Eustace on the history channel just to prove you can .It isn't my cup of tea but as I say what ever floats your boat .
Now a story hard as it might be to believe .I knew this old bird who was a union electrician ,same as myself who evidently didn't know much .He bought this huge drill press at an auction with a ten HP electric motor he had the bright or not so bright of an idea to drive shaft it from an 80 HP Oliver tractor because he didn't want to run his electric bill up .I just smiled ,he never would have figured it out .Ralph had 10 kids and four teeth,get the picture . :D
Now rambling on .I have 3 generators ,two small single phase and one multi voltage multi phase old army signal corps unit that looks like a small locomotive .
During an ice storm some years ago the power was off for 4 days and I had no choice but to hook up the 5,000 watt unit .It sucked down a little less the 5 gallon in 9 hours at $1.75 a gallon then .So lets call it 14 gallon in twenty four hours more or less .Do the math .Now then think about that 20 KVA unit I have with a 20 gallon tank . Look up Generac, and check the fuel consumption,gasoline ,propane or diesel .It ain't cheap .
Don't get me wrong I like my generators and use them for certain things I can't stretch a cord to but in terms of economy it just isn't there .
Al, you and I are not on the same page. I did a lot of research before I put in a generator. In this location I would have to put in 2 poles and a r.o.w to the power co. Then the 3 transformers , service to mill and so on. Then you get 2 meters one for running like your house and one for starting and that is the killer. One guy did this and took it back out. A factory down the road loads capacitors on shut down for the next start. The quarries around here all run generators because it is cheaper for them . This is the way it is. I like your posts and this is the first time I disagree.
ok, we pay 1.1$/lt gasoline, so like 4$ per gallon and that is very expensive, but also the kw is around 0.25$ so that's not cheap either.
I want to go to electric because it's cheaper, quieter, less vibration, no stinky exhaust fumes to breath in, less maintenance, no annoying starting procedure.
I have one big 7.5hp from the sander, a real beast, weights 70kg, 1750rpm (way too heavy)
the honda has 20hp (had when new) is 43kg, 2500-3500rpm
from the planer a 5hp, 3600rpm, around 30kg
I think i will make a trial run with the 5hp electric motor to see how that compares to the honda in cut force and speed. i just hook the motor up directly, no slow start or changeable speed control. i can do that swap without having to spend more than elbow grease. if that works i make a proper installation with speed control and overheating sensors.
Variable speed would be a luxury for a band mill, not sure it would be worth the cost. Overload protection for the motor is important, even more important for a trial with a possibly undersized motor. If you overload the planer motor and burn it up, the cost of this project goes up quite a bit.
At least hook up an amp meter and watch it closely while trying out the 5hp motor. This would help you decide if it will work and whether you should change the band speed.
thanks for the info, in the trial i will not saw a full day, just some cuts, so i won't overload the motor.
the motor says 25Amp, 5hp, 220V single phase, 2 pole, heat 60C, so the 25 amps is what the motor consumes under load? if i pass that when in the cut i will overheat and eventually burn the motor? how do i measure that? i have a electrical meter, the yellow ones which can measure, volt, amps, ohm, i just know the very basics. how do i measure amps?
Variable speed would be a luxury for a band mill , i want something to have two speeds, a idle where the engine turns but not engage the clutch which turns the band and a speed for cutting. is there such a gysmo that i can buy? just a on/off and 2 speeds
Quote from: Den-Den on February 23, 2020, 09:06:01 AMOverload protection for the motor is important,
@Den-Den (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=23766)
there is a overload protection on the planer, i probably hook that up also
I try not to comment on wood mizer style mills as I have no experience with them. Do you just run the saw or do you idle on the gig back? Is the clutch necessary? Could you use a variable pitch pully to change blade speed? And does anyone use a Honda [or other brand] gas engine on propane for indoor use?
Quote from: moodnacreek on February 23, 2020, 09:24:44 AMDo you just run the saw or do you idle on the gig back? Is the clutch necessary?
now with the gas engine of course i idle on the gig back and when i have to move the log manually. i already have the clutch. i just don't want the blade running as i'm in front of it moving the log and as the electric motor should not be turned on and off every 3min that would be a very good option to have a idle speed so the clutch does not engage
In essence the conversation went from apples to oranges .Actually on a small bandsaw mill it really isn't a cost worry to operate thing because it's not a high production situation so weather to run a gasoline engine or electric motor really doesn't apply.
More so it might be good advice if you don't have a good knowledge of electrical work,specifically motors it's probably a good idea not to go there . ;)
Material handling and organization improvements probably pay bigger dividends than foolin' around with the motor/engine. The other side of that is sometimes we just do what we want to do. It's the nature of mill owners, I think.
@Al_Smith (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=2054) , with all respect, i have newer surrender before a challenge. when i came from switzerland i was a simple construction worker, licenced bricklayer. Now, 17 years later i own 2 businesses, do all my mecanical work, 6years in the transporting business with semi's, drive excavator, skidder, chainsaws, good faller, 90acres of teakplantations, make formidable furnitures in my own woodworking shop. from producing the wood to the finished product. i'm one hair away to open my stone quarry and still enjoy live at fullest!
there is NO challenge that with effort and interest in the matter can't be acomplished.
Ramon
Well on that quite frankly a challenge doesn't bother me either .It's a little less these days with the internet you can usually figure out just about anything .For me though it would be a little faster if I could type using more than one finger .Then too a computer doesn't respond well from a blow from a big hammer .That is not a good plan .
I would think that the electric motor would be running all the time. Then you engage the clutch to run the band.
you also need to run the band at a certain rpm for it to cut right, I believe, so pulley size needs to be correct.
the clutch is a automatic type, like in a chainsaw. at idle it disengage and when you rev up it engages, thats why i need two speeds on the motor
Variable Speed control units are available for electric motors. I have one on my Tanning drum, to set the speed of turning, from not moving to full speed.
Quote from: teakwood on February 23, 2020, 09:20:10 AM
thanks for the info, in the trial i will not saw a full day, just some cuts, so i won't overload the motor.
the motor says 25Amp, 5hp, 220V single phase, 2 pole, heat 60C, so the 25 amps is what the motor consumes under load? if i pass that when in the cut i will overheat and eventually burn the motor? how do i measure that? i have a electrical meter, the yellow ones which can measure, volt, amps, ohm, i just know the very basics. how do i measure amps?
Variable speed would be a luxury for a band mill , i want something to have two speeds, a idle where the engine turns but not engage the clutch which turns the band and a speed for cutting. is there such a gysmo that i can buy? just a on/off and 2 speeds
I tried to reply earlier but must have done something wrong.
A mult-imeter will not handle 25 amps, a clamp on amp meter would be my choice, would not have to be an expensive one.
I recommend you change the clutch so that the motor can continue running at the same speed (similar to an electric clutch on a zero turn mower).
Quote from: Den-Den on February 23, 2020, 12:50:35 PMI recommend you change the clutch so that the motor can continue running at the same speed (similar to an electric clutch on a zero turn mower).
i could use a A/C compressor clutch from a truck/equipment. they are electrically activated with 12V, and probably could handle the abuse as these compressors eat like 10hp from a engine
Here is the clutch I put on my 20 hp Kohler to run the chainsaw on my processor. https://xtremeope.com/p/xtreme-replacement-clutch-for-toro-92-6885/ (https://xtremeope.com/p/xtreme-replacement-clutch-for-toro-92-6885/)
On my homemade mill with a 5 hp electric I run the blade continuously when using. I make adjustments to the log before returning for next cut so I am not in front of blade.
Quote from: wiam on February 23, 2020, 03:09:35 PM
On my homemade mill with a 5 hp electric I run the blade continuously when using. I make adjustments to the log before returning for next cut so I am not in front of blade.
Winner, Winner!!
Update, after long investigation and info from friends with electrical knowledge i finally converted my sawmill.
At the end i bought a Techtop 7.5hp 3phase motor, TEFC, 3500rpm, 46kg (about 15kg lighter than the whole gasoline engine setup) and it works like a charm. for my use, smaller diam logs, it's excellent. It's not fast but a manual sawmill never is.
I ended up making the third phase (just single phase current available) with 1200mf starter capacitors and a 80mf running capacitor. of course it's not ideal but it works great.
Men, am i happy with this conversion, costed me about 700$, now the electric bill went up around 20$/month which is pretty low compared to the 60-80$ i spent for gasoline per month before.
It's quiet, no exhaust gases and starts easy every time.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20200531_090107.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1590938847)
Magnetic starter switch (lower box), and a momentary push button (switch) for the starter capacitor (upper box)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20200531_090122.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1590938946)
these are the biggest logs for now, 14.5" diam
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20200215_095730.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1590937181)
Nice boards
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/20191122_112338.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1590944199)
also did several updates on the mechanical side of the sawmill, a precision shop made these rollerguides for me and i put new fly wheel bearings in. I always had a wavy cut before. i spent several hours watching the cooks sawmill videos on youtube, men o men did i learn some stuff from them, excellent videos!
Now i'm very pleased how the sawmill performs.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20200303_114033.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1590937261)
Awesome.
Looks good.
Are those teak boards?
Looks great.
The rule of thumb on a converter is around 7.5 mf per HP run caps on 240 volts .If the third leg is low,add some,too high remove some .They don't have to be perfectly balanced .
I think mine being 480 volts is within about 6-8 volts .The 480 is also transformed down to 240 delta because I have a drill press and an old Bridgeport milling machine that only have single voltage motors .I'm 72 years old and these are older than I am .Back in the 30's they did make them to last forever.Fact I have some that are about 100 years old that still run just fine .
I measured 228V between the 2 normal phases and 234V on the third leg.
Close enough .The old guy who showed me this little known trick about 45 years said to keep the dummy phase below 300 volts .
That old gent who was an engineer and never went to engineering school .When Ohio came out with "professional engineer " he grand fathered it .When the old oil wells in this area became low producing "stripper " wells he made a fortune electrifying them using three phase motors he bought for a dollar a HP and ran from single phase .Very smart gent he was .
Since I started coming to this website I have been thinking more and more about getting a small sawmill when I retire but I wouldn't need it to be portable so I would switch it to electric.
I've got a home build that is a work in progress which I can't seem to find the time to finish .I've got options,15 HP Wisconsin twin ,18 HP Briggs ,31 HP Wisconsin 4 banger,10 HP electric .I don't want it portable but movable .I have no intention of hauling a mill all over north west Ohio to mill somebodies yard trees just because I'm a nice guy .Find some other nice guy for that . :)
With your knowledge Al, you have no choice but to go electric. 8)
The way I have in mind to do it ,it would not be difficult to change over from electric to gas or vica versa .Yet alas I have so many irons in the fire I'll have to live another 50 years to get them all done .
I have plans to built another building .So rather than trench in 100 amps to the building with another 60 for a mill I'll just go with an engine first .If it works out I can always trench in a 60 amp branch feed from the building .Then the mill .I have to get my Monarch 10 EE lathe working first because I've got a lot of machining to do .I've got a new solid state controller for but with my wife ill never got around to installing it .Now 6 years a later after the fact having a new resident who just happens to be female I'm up to my behind in alligators once again .Just not enough hours in the day some times .No big deal .I'm retired . 8)
Going electric is a step forward, good for you. How did you get the wires to follow the traveling saw head?
Overhead festoon would be the simplest method .Cat track like an industrial robot would be cool but expensive .
Al Smith, You have a Monarch 10 EE? I am jealous, One of the finest lathes ever built. :)
I think it's a 1956 model WIAD ( works in a drawer ) Giant gas thyratron tube rectifiers .The components are so old you can't find them any more .It got so I can't run it in slow speed .So I ordered a solid state control unit which I have not installed yet .If I wanted to I could sell the old components for more than the new unit cost .
Although I was a navy submarine sonar technician and knew tube type electronics very well at one time I had to refer to my books when I got into this thing.Use it or lose it type of thing
Monarch kept very good records .I know the complete history where this thing has been .FWIW Monarch which basically just a warehouse now is in Sidney Ohio .About 30 miles south of me .I've been there several times ,
All that said this old sweet heart could cut parts for the space shuttle,it's that accurate .I do believe I could cut threads on a darning needle after a couple of tries .
Quote from: moodnacreek on June 03, 2020, 09:12:10 PM
Going electric is a step forward, good for you. How did you get the wires to follow the traveling saw head?
I just need a max of16' travel so i did like a swinging antenna which gets feed over the roof.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20200604_091353.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1591308324)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37555/IMG_20200604_091412.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1591308275)
Since this thing has taken on a life of it's own I have a suggestion .Do a Google on a guy by the name of Bill Rake .Mr. Rake sells detailed plans for rubber tired DIY band saws with both gasoline engines and electric motors .
In addition there are a zillion other sites about home builds .Generally speaking I would not think a home build to be a high production item.Many are just built of salvaged materials so what makes the difference what powers it ?If you had a perfectly good Briggs or Wisconsin twin engine why
would you go and buy all the stuff to use an electric motor ?
Then comes the factor usually they mill stuff that would normally become firewood.I can't hardly see them being used on 100 feet white oaks 3 feet in diameter on a regular bassis .
Thanks for the answer and photos. That's a pantograph with only one arm. If it works that's all that matters.